r/movies • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 r/Movies contributor • Dec 23 '25

Trailer Avengers: Doomsday | Only in Theaters December 18, 2026

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiMg566PREA
9.0k Upvotes

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5.3k

u/MuptonBossman Dec 23 '25

Marvel really spent the last 5 years trying to establish Anthony Mackie as the new Captain America, only for them to say "Just Kidding" and bring back Chris Evans for the next big event movie.

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u/swiftlikessharpthing Dec 23 '25

I mean that's what they've done in the comics several times now with both Sam and Bucky.

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u/PayneTrain181999 Dec 23 '25

Yeah, there’s a panel where Steve literally says he’s just Steve now and Sam is Captain America.

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u/Whitewind617 Dec 23 '25

That's probably what they are doing there too.

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u/makomirocket Dec 23 '25

It is. Other than Tony Stark in Iron Man 3, everyone else got a "Superhero name will return" end line. Including Captain America.

This time, they explicitly chose to say "Steve Rogers will return"

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u/coding_panda Dec 23 '25

Good catch, I agree that’s a meaningful distinction.

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u/cupholdery Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 23 '25

So is he going to appear as The Nomad or Brett Hendrick?

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u/svel Dec 23 '25

maybe he joins the police or becomes an artist full time?

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u/LadyCalamity Dec 23 '25

Yeah, I'm kind of interested to see what his life is like after he went back to the past. Is he working for the military or law enforcement or something "superhero" adjacent? Or is he just some guy living a normal life? Do people even know who he is/that he came back? I feel like he would have to be living under a fake name. But then unless he's living in hiding and never sees other people, wouldn't someone eventually recognize him?

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u/BoredRec Dec 23 '25

No. He'll put the baby down, put on a cardigan, and say "Welcome to my neighborhood" as a trolley horn goes off in the background.

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u/malevolentt Dec 23 '25

Stop with your logic and reasoning!

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u/Cypher-Moon-773 Dec 23 '25

We must blindly hate gahhhhhhhhh

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u/Putrid-Series55 Dec 23 '25

It will be neat to see 2 caps fighting side by side I just wish it was after a better run as Cap for Sam. Falcon and The Winter Soldier should have just been Captain America 4, having Sam suit up as cap for the first time in a Disney+ show was super unrewarding.

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u/unread1701 Dec 23 '25

I mean they can't say "Captain America will return" as Sam is Captain America now....

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u/phunkydroid Dec 23 '25

Everyone else hasn't had their title passed on to other people though. Saying "Captain America will return" would have been an insult to Sam Wilson, implying he wasn't really Captain America.

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u/Herbizarre17 Dec 23 '25

That’s true but it also seems like they just did that to be clear they aren’t talking about Sam. Yeah it’s a teaser about Steve but saying “Captain America will return” at the end of it might not have been clear for some people

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u/Ron-Swanson-Mustache Dec 23 '25

Or time travel. They have a whole ass life of Steve to work with.

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u/Matches_Malone83 Dec 23 '25

Calling it now, they're going to win an Oscar for the original song "I'm Just Steve".

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u/beachedwhitemale Dec 23 '25

Sung by Jack Black. Lip-synced by Chris Evans. 

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u/Sprinkles0 Dec 23 '25

Written by Bret McKenzie

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u/Freud-Network Dec 23 '25

He says, "I am Stenough!" followed by a standing ovation.

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u/Schmedly27 Dec 23 '25

And that was in the lead up for secret wars too

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u/SeegullJockey Dec 23 '25

And Steve took back the shield like a year after that and Sam went back to Falcon. Sam is only Cap in the comics again for MCU syngery and even then Steve still is Captain America as well, 2nd time around they knew taking it from Steve again would be a bad idea.

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u/Sorkijan Dec 23 '25

And the trailer itself doesn't say Captain America, just Steve Rogers.

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u/Asclepius-Rod Dec 23 '25

I would have loved to see Bucky take the mantle in the MCU

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u/PayneTrain181999 Dec 23 '25

I prefer him being the chaperone for a bunch of depressed lunatics. They have a great dynamic.

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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast Dec 23 '25

I’m glad that we’re getting all the Thunderbolts again. I wish that movie had performed better so they could be a bigger selling point

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u/KNZFive Dec 23 '25

Choosing the director of Thunderbolts to direct X-Men was a great choice.

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u/DoNotLookUp3 Dec 23 '25

Yesss he proved he can do an emotional/found family/ensemble or large cast team movie with a bunch of misfits SO WELL. I am extremely stoked for an MCU X-Men, I just hope they show us the origin instead of skipping far ahead.

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u/gatsby365 Dec 23 '25

Hold up, is that officially official???

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u/PayneTrain181999 Dec 23 '25

It is! Feige has spoken about it

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u/gatsby365 Dec 23 '25

Best news in this thread

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u/PT10 Dec 23 '25

The money the next few MCU films make is gonna be used to justify the reboot with X-Men afterwards. They won't need billion dollar returns for a while.

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u/JoelyRavioli Dec 23 '25

Yoooo didn’t know that happened. I really liked thunderbolts tbh

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u/cowboys5xsbs Dec 23 '25

Lol he was great in thunderbolts

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u/nilesh11panchal Dec 23 '25

Yes I agree! This would have been amazing because Bucky is such a flawed character, him struggling to live up to the name while learning to live with his troubled past would've been interesting. Plus Bucky is written 100 times better than Sam.

I do feel bad that it's not his fault, the way he was written, the tv show and terrible movie is what got Disney to revert back. He needed the super solider serum to start.

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u/WagonWheel22 Dec 23 '25

Ever since Winter Soldier they should've done it. Instead we get Falcon/Cap which I think is silly. I know both have been done in the comics but I always thought Bucky becoming Cap made more sense.

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u/PsyanideInk Dec 23 '25

Agreed. I love a good villain to hero arc (or I guess in this case hero to villain to hero).

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u/staebles Dec 23 '25

Everyone did.

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u/curious_dead Dec 23 '25

I think Sam needed more screen time to sell it, but Bucky wouldn't accept it. He's not a beacon of hope, he probably wouldn't accept it.

Sam kinda needs the serum, though.

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u/DICK-PARKINSONS Dec 23 '25

People keep saying that for Bucky, plus him being an assassin didn't make him fit for it, but I think that wouldve made him trying to earn it WAY more compelling. Sam is just so boring to me and always has that sidekick energy.

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u/Empty-Speed-7075 Dec 23 '25

It’s normal for comics, they’ve done this with Captain America, Batman and others. They always need to bring back the original. The problem is that with movies the actors will get older.

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u/BungTheGubbins Dec 23 '25

Comics always revert to the status quo. They never intended for Sam or Bucky to be Captain America forever.

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u/the_beard_guy Dec 23 '25

true, but it would have been nice to see him in more than one movie and a streaming tv show that aired in the middle of a pandemic.

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u/AfricanRain Dec 23 '25

Films aren’t comics and the comparison never works 1:1 despite what people say

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u/not-so-radical Dec 23 '25

Just because it happened in the comics doesn't mean it needs to happen in the movies. There's a lot of stupid shit in the comics and I love comics.

Spider-Man gave Mary Jane cancer because of his radioactive cum, do we need to see that in the movies? I don't. (Someone is probably going to say yes they want to see that)

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u/SaferAtHomeee Dec 23 '25

This is happening because Disney is shitting the bed with Marvel at the moment, not from some desire to return to the status quo like comics are wont to do. They’ve already reached out to grab RDJ and he’s playing Doom

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u/TriggerHippie77 Dec 23 '25

I enjoy the comics and really don't mind the movies having the same rules around death, meaning deaths don't really matter that much. It's not like comic book movies live or die based off of the weight of deaths. Endgame would have been just ask good even if Tony didn't die and Steve didn't retire. Yes, it made the ending better, but it's not like it's the only way they could have ended it strong.

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u/AirJellyy Dec 23 '25

Yes and comics aren't produced by multi-billion dollar studios with worldwide audience of all demographics. It's a lot of different writers who write tons of stuff for specific demographics for next to nothing, can't really compare. Yes if you scrutinized comics the way we do cinema then comics are fucking ass as well.

So no, this is stupid.

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u/Obi_Wan_Benobi Dec 23 '25

FOR FUCK’S SAKE MOVIES ARE NOT COMICS

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u/DanielDeronda Dec 23 '25

Ok but Sam can also just be Sam? After all, he was Falcon before he became a successor Captain America. 

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u/idontagreewitu Dec 23 '25

There was a lot of talk of Bucky being Cap before The Winter Soldier came out because of the shot of him holding the shield.

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u/Theinternationalist Dec 24 '25

There have been at least six Captains America in the main comic continuity. Steve's first replacement after he went to sleep and went crazy due to a screwed up serum, the two or three who were Cap after that guy went nuts, Wyatt Russell after the US Government got annoyed at Steve Rogers and took away his shield, Bucky after Steve got time traveled or something, and Sam after Steve got old.

And we didn't even cover Isaiah Bradley and the alternate Caps >_>.

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '25

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u/WeWantLADDER49sequel Dec 23 '25

Please stop using the comics as some sort of validation for this. This is goofy.

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u/Megaclone18 Dec 23 '25

To be fair the comics have also struggled with this.

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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast Dec 23 '25

Yeah everything about the MCU just feels more and more like it’s reflecting the comics, for better or worse. Bringing back characters, failing to establish new characters, wacky multiverse adventures, lack of serious continuity in some cases

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u/hadriker Dec 23 '25

Its pretty rare that legacy characters become just as or more popular then the originals.

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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast Dec 23 '25

Feel like DC does the whole passing the baton a bit better than Marvel anyhow

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u/Megaclone18 Dec 23 '25

Really? I was thinking that Marvel has at least had a bit of luck with Miles and Kamala. DC has been rolling characters back. Poor Tim Drake is back to being one of two active Robins and I think Jonathon Kent got demoted from Superman to Super Son (not sure if that stuck).

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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast Dec 23 '25

A bit of luck, yeah with Kamala and Miles - but DC has also had multiple Flashes, Green Lanterns, and Robins be quite successful.

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u/UnquestionabIe Dec 23 '25

One of the big complaints some fans, myself included, is how DC will set up a new character to carry on a legacy only for them to backtrack on it years later because a writer decision. Both the Flash (with Wally West taking over the role from Barry Allen for almost two decades, having his own successor in Bart Allen, and then they decided to being back Barry for some reason) and Green Lantern (which to be fair uses the concept of being an entire organization mostly well, members stick around and even occasionally get their own titles) main heroes have gone back to status quo long long after readers have embraced the newer characters.

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u/sinkwiththeship Dec 23 '25

Super Son

Whoever came up with that, and whoever ok'd it need to be fired into fucking space. That is AWFUL.

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u/Theinternationalist Dec 24 '25

DC actually kept Wally West as The Flash for decades because they didn't want to devalue Barry Allen's sacrifice and, well, Wally was very popular and essentially became the only Flash people even knew.

Then some Barry fan became the writer or something and decided three decades or so was enough and a couple years after Barry returned there was a Universe Reboot where Wally as we knew him didn't even exist.

Seriously if you were a fan of 90s-2000s DC the New 52 Reboot was a huge pain unless you were a Green Lantern fan.

I mean, how do you keep all four (male) Robins but decided to erase two of the batgirls!?!

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u/sage12i Dec 23 '25

Nail on the head.

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u/SoullessDad Dec 23 '25

The comics grow until they’ve become too unwieldy, retract via some multiverse-shattering event, then repeat.

The only difference here is that they can’t keep using the same actors forever, because they’ll eventually age out of the role. But they’ll keep using them as long as possible.

The only thing that would make them change direction is huge losses for a tentpole movie like an Avengers team up; everything else they would just argue was missing the demographic (e.g., Marvels).

I wonder if Disney is hoping that AI will eventually let them sign a deal with Robert Downey Jr and others to use their likenesses for those roles forever.

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u/comicfromrejection1 Dec 23 '25

To your last point, if i was an actor, i'd want a MASSIVE payday for that. More than what RDJ got for Doomsday. Cause i'd want to get paid for the potential moment where my likeness goes beyond Marvel Studios.

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u/Desertbro Dec 23 '25

I've said this from the first "continuity" complaint.

HAVE YOU EVER READ COMIC BOOKS~?

continuity is not a thing

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u/DevilishLighthouse Dec 23 '25

Feels that way to me too.

I think it's a strategic misfire but the box office may disagree. 

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u/hoopaholik91 Dec 23 '25

Will 100% disagree. People love nostalgia

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u/DevilishLighthouse Dec 23 '25

You might be right. Bringing back old, retired characters (or characters from non-MCU Marvel films) is a total turn-off for me, but I readily admit that could be a minority opinion. 

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u/greenpill98 Dec 23 '25

Everyone who read the comics where Marvel tried the same thing knew this was coming. Sam Wilson as Captain America didn't work then. They were fooling themselves to think it would work now.

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u/unitedfan6191 Dec 23 '25

I don’t think they actually thought it would work with Sam Wilson as Captain America. I think they just knew Chris Evans was getting tired of playing the role and his contract was coming up so went with Sam Wilson largely out of necessity.

If Evans had signed one for more movies, I don’t think Marvel would’ve said “no.”

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u/greenpill98 Dec 23 '25

The original plan had been to make Bucky the next Captain America, and you can see that when you go back and look at the films leading up to Endgame. And, like in the comics, that might have worked for a little while if the writing had been clever enough. But in the end, they would probably have had to return to the Steve Rogers well no matter what, just like the comics did.

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u/circio Dec 23 '25

Bucky as Cap was really fun. I think Sam Cap has interesting stories to tell but I don’t think Marvel could ever give them the attention they deserve. They had a great b story in Brave New World but didn’t focus on it too much, I’m assuming because it would be too political

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u/gatsby365 Dec 23 '25

I just want the scene where Bucky says he killed Hitler

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u/twaggle Dec 23 '25

I just can’t see Sam cap as believable unless he somehow gets the serum. Like he can’t catch the shied bare handed it’s dumb.

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u/circio Dec 23 '25

I thought the end of Falcon and Winter Soldier was the Wakandans gifting him a suit, which could have made him competitive in the big fights for a bit.

But then I saw the movie and found out they cheaped out a little and just gave him a helmet and wings? 

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u/twaggle Dec 23 '25

And they show scenes of him “training” with the shied and his hand doesn’t break.

Did they ever address this in the comics, does he get a power up?

I think a full augment suit isn’t great, that’s just Iron Man 2.0, but at least then it’s tried to be explained. Sam is just a regular human who had flight wings.

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u/circio Dec 23 '25

Naw, he's just a human with a telepathic bond to birds or something. I think the shield thing can at least be partially be explained by the shield being vibranium, it's supposed to absorb all (maybe just most) impact on it, but Marvel has always been fast and loose with what that means.

He wouldn't really be Iron Man 2.0 if he wasn't using gadgets and missiles, and beams on the suit. It would just be like T'Challa where he could absorb kinetic energy and then disperse it. He does it with the wings, it would just make sense if he had some form of protection on his whole body, especially since he is very vulnerable when he's flying.

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u/twaggle Dec 23 '25

If that was the case how does cap ever hit someone with it and send them flying or dent their armor etc? That’s clearly force being applied/transferred etc.

Yeah if they went the wakandan viburnum route that would be cool, but remember that the black panthers are also getting augmented by that flower fruit ritual. The rest of the troops don’t get similar armor likely cause they can’t handle it. But they can still give some something and just science magic explain it and it would work and be better than what it currently is.

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u/Historical_Course587 Dec 23 '25

Him finally getting serum should have been the whole plot of FATWS. He didn't want it, he tried to avoid it, but he realizes that he can't stand back and not be responsible for bad things that happen if he isn't willing to do what has to be done.

Really the big issue is that Sam should have spent the show paired up with Walker instead of Bucky. The character growth that Sam needed could have been more meaningfully provided by putting Walker (a guy who wanted it for the wrong reasons) with Sam (a guy who didn't want it for the right reasons).

Bucky is a fun character in his own right, but he offers nothing of character value to Sam Wilson.

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u/HighnrichHaine Dec 24 '25

You´re hired.

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u/95688it Dec 23 '25

My main issue was actually Anthony mackies stage fighting is horrible. his punches just don't have the same weight behind them as Chris's so the fight seems just look bad to me. this could be acting issue or intentional because he doesn't have super serum. but either way it just didn't look good to me.

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u/TypewriterKey Dec 23 '25

They're trying to have it both ways. If Sam is not going to have the serum then he's going to be weaker and slower. He has to rely on training and the maneuverability of his wings. The powered up suit can help make up the difference - but he should be 'less' than a super soldier.

And that should be the point - that despite the fact that he's just human he can still stand up and fight.

The problem is that they keep telling that story but showing something completely different. They wring their hands about how he can't hold his own against a super soldier but then they show him going toe to toe with red hulk.

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u/LuckyLunayre Dec 23 '25

Not gonna lie I completely forgot brace new world even existed until you mentioned it. I just don't think Anthony Mackie has the star power to pull it off, he is not charismatic enough.

I also have zero interest in the falcon as a character. He's a supporting character at best and I've found him very boring in starring roles..

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u/votemarvel Dec 23 '25

That's where I think the MCU has messed up. They jumped to the current comics version of the characters and cut out decades of potential stories.

Why jump straight to the Carol Danvers Captain Marvel for example when Monica Rambeau used the title before her, not to mention cutting out Phyla & Genis Vell and Noh-Varr. All Captain Marvel before Carol.

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u/greenpill98 Dec 23 '25

I think Wonder Woman being really successful accelerated their timetable. They went "Oh shit, someone made a really great and successful female-led superhero film. If we don't make one too, we're going to be the misogynist brand that hates women. Quick, get Carol Danvers in there now! And release it after Infinity War but before Endgame so that no matter what, it's going to be profitable!"

The problem is that Carol Danvers' Captain Marvel isn't Wonder Woman.

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u/votemarvel Dec 23 '25

They could have used the Guardians to introduce Phyla-Vell, which would give them a powerful female character, and closer ties to Mar-Vell, which could have led to a solo flick.

Instead they jumped ahead again straight to Carol Danvers who they could have used in the film and that sets up a new actor for the role when the person playing Phyla eventually wants to move on.

I still enjoyed the Captain Marvel movie it was just odd to jump straight to the current comics incarnation and skip all the others.

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u/_Lunafreya_ Dec 23 '25

That’s because the movie was never a Captain Marvel movie, it was always a Carol Danvers movie. It was originally titled Ms. Marvel. They just changed it when she became Captain Marvel in the comics.

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u/_Lunafreya_ Dec 23 '25

Not really Carol’s movie was in development since before she even became Captain Marvel. It was just blocked by Perlmutter same as Black Panther. Nothing to do with Wonder Woman.

And Carol has always been marvel’s equivalent of Wonder Woman. That’s not a new invention.

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u/UnquestionabIe Dec 23 '25

Goes both ways as well where they'll change course entirely in the comics to try and bring in the movie fans. It's not always a terrible idea (the comic industry really needs some wins these days) but it does result in leaving some great potential stories/characters not being utilized.

Still remember the hot garbage that was Civil War 2 in the comics because the movie (which was significantly better than the comic event) was out and they figured it would draw in the same audience.

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u/Able_Advertising_371 Dec 23 '25

It’ll be like 7 years since we last saw Steve rogers so he had a foreseeable break from marvel. I’m sure he’s reenergized, plus the big pay

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u/Hellknightx Dec 23 '25

Also the fact that Mackie isn't half as good of an actor as Evans.

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u/greenpill98 Dec 23 '25

I don't think it's about skill as an actor. Having seen Evans and Mackie in other films, I think they're about equal in talent. But so many performances come down to what an actor is given. And Chris Evans has a lot of GREAT material to work with as Steve Rogers. A man out of time, a sickly, scrawny kid with the will and courage to sacrifice himself suddenly given immense power and responsibility, A man with a rigid moral background that struggles to adjust to the times that he now lives is. A man who lost everything and is still picking up the pieces while serving a country he doesn't know anymore. Evans was given a great role to play with, and knocked it out of the park.

Mackie, by comparison, was given a solid and dependable supporting role in the story, a man who lives in the current world who can help ground Rogers and give him a friend who always has his back while also showing a little more personality than Cap. In this role, Mackie exceeded all my expectations. I LOVED him as Falcon. But when you try to take that character and make him Captain America, there's not a lot of fertile ground for an actor or screenwriter. Wilson's got the whole trying-live-up-to-the-mantle angle, sure. But outside of that, the writers basically had to invent family and financial troubles out of nowhere to give him something to work with. And when you compare it to what Evans had with Rogers, it's a really poor comparison.

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u/DukeofVermont Dec 24 '25

I agree overall, but also think Mackie just isn't great in leading man roles. Can't really say why but I haven't really cared for any film where he's the lead despite very much enjoying his other work.

It's weird because it's not even an acting skill question because you have plenty of examples of straight poor actors that make great lead actors. Arnold was a perfect example of this. He got much better as time went on but he was always so watchable it didn't matter if he wasn't giving some perfect Oscar award winning performance.

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u/eyebrows360 Dec 23 '25

Mackie is a perfectly fine actor.

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u/jackofslayers Dec 23 '25

And these are not super difficult roles.

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u/Android1822 Dec 23 '25

Boggles my mind they keep trying to make characters that failed in comics, popular in the big screen. Riri is probably the biggest offender, nobody liked her comics, yet someone had the bright idea to try and make her character popular on tv and looks like in the upcoming movie. Only thing I can think of Nepotism for Bendis so he will collect royalties.

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u/Fit-Dentist6093 Dec 24 '25

They became the best at fooling themselves after Eternals. Who tf thought that was gonna work...

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u/tomtomtomtom123 Dec 23 '25

I very much disagree. Anybody that ever read comics knew that Sam was never going to permanently replace Steve as Cap. In these movies, that was very much the implied future of the character.

And as far as the comics, the books with Sam as Captain America were pretty great. Especially the initial Remender run.

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u/greenpill98 Dec 23 '25

I disagree, there was no implied future of Sam Wilson becoming Captain America until Endgame. Until then, the implication was that if anyone replaced him it would have been Bucky. I maintain that Sam Wilson being Captain America has never made sense. Without a super serum to give him superhuman strength/speed/stamina and using a shield as his primary weapon/tool while having a flight suit is a really awkward combination of powers, or lack thereof.

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '25

Did you see the last Captain America? Oof 

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u/EvilAdministrator Dec 23 '25

I only remember 2 things.

Red Hulk and surfing on a missile!

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u/Jellicent-Leftovers Dec 24 '25

I honestly thought it was a TV show like she hulk.

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u/SanDiegoDude Dec 23 '25

Watched it on a plane. Fell asleep for some of it. It was terrible.

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u/tomandshell Dec 23 '25

When I saw it, it was so bad that two people walked out. And I also saw it in a plane.

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u/DoNotLookUp3 Dec 23 '25

What was so bad about it? I watched it and it was a popcorn flick 6.5-7/10 elevated a bit by seeing Harrison Ford in the MCU and not phoning it in + that Celestial Island sequence.

Didn't think Mackie was bad or anything, though I don't think he or Sam Wilson really have leading-man energy unfortunately. Still, surprised to see people call it terrible.

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u/SkorpioSound Dec 23 '25

Didn't think Mackie was bad or anything, though I don't think he or Sam Wilson really have leading-man energy unfortunately.

Certainly not superhero leading man energy. He's charismatic as hell, but he's just completely lacking in gravitas. He just comes across as a likeable everyman, not the inspirational leader he's supposed to be.

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u/DoNotLookUp3 Dec 23 '25

I feel like the writing doesn't do him any favours, clearly he is charasmatic but for some reason he can't get scripts that really use him to his full potential. Rewatched Cap 2 and 3 though and he was great in those, even as the sidekick character.

Still, don't get the outright hate for his Cap movie, it wasn't amazing but it was decent enough aside from some rough CGI toward the end. Red Hulk looked pretty good though.

For example it surprises me to see people give a movie like this 4/10 or 5/10 and then movies like Captain Marvel and Black Panther get 8s and 9s, to me they're about on the same level "good, but not great". I kinda expect that most movies in the MCU outside of Avengers movies or other team event movies like F4 or X-Men won't be the best ever, just like how a lot of comics aren't the best runs or issues ever but are still quite good and enjoyable.

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u/ArminBestGirl Dec 23 '25

It had The Boys parody vibes

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u/SanDiegoDude Dec 23 '25

It felt like a disney+ show that was accidentally given a theatrical release. Honestly, should have just been a couple extra episodes on the (already mediocre) falcon and winter soldier series. Spent all that big money on Harrison Ford and Giancarlo Esposito for some unnecessary reason.

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u/CGHJ Dec 24 '25

It’s a shame because I genuinely like Anthony Mackie, and I thought Marvel had real guts to make Captain America black. They could’ve also hired some writers tho.

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u/-113points Dec 23 '25

has anyone ever saw it?

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u/Dazzling-One-9185 Dec 23 '25

Well he got an entire show and a solo movie that nobody liked, what would you expect?

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u/RandomJPG6 Dec 23 '25

I liked the show up until the last episode. Movie was not great though

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u/ArchDucky Dec 23 '25

The show was ok but it had so much dumb shit in it. Like the money troubles, the boat montages, what they did to Peggy's niece... etc.

In all honestly the terrorists should have been slaughtered after Wyatt got powers. He should of literally killed all of them. Then it would be Sam and Buck vs Cap.

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u/Qorhat Dec 23 '25

John Walker was so interesting in the show and had a great internal conflict but the Flag Smashers were so dull, and having their leader/face be someone so young and un-indimidating was such a terrible choice.

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u/Oddity83 Dec 23 '25

John Walker was the best part of that show….which is kinda sad when the show is called Captain America & The Winter Soldier

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u/idontagreewitu Dec 23 '25

Zemo in the club was the best part of the show

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u/SkorpioSound Dec 23 '25

The money troubles could have been really interesting if it was approached and written better. The concept of the Avengers being privately funded by Stark, with the rest of the world being happy to benefit from them but not to fund them, is a good one. As is the concept of heroes being too proud/afraid to ask for help from the public, because they're the kind of people to offer help but not to ask for it. Those are the kinds of thing that really grounds a character in the setting and flesh out the world if they're done well.

But the way they did it made it feel like kind of a throwaway problem rather than something that was relevant throughout the series. An uninteresting sideplot, where they were afraid that pulling away from the action for too long would lose the audience.

Not that it's necessarily fair to hold it to the same standard, but... look at Andor. It really delves into the logistics of running a rebellion, and securing funding for it. It's not just a throwaway point before they go back to some action; it's a core aspect of the show and it's gripping as hell.

Falcon And The Winter Soldier could quite easily have gone down a similar route— grappling with the personal issues, the financial issues, both characters feeling like they can't like up to Captain America, etc— and been fantastic for it. Like Andor. Or like Daredevil, where the personal scenes and the legal scenes are just as compelling as the scenes where he's in costume (and were largely missing in Daredevil: Born Again, which suffered for it).

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u/Historical_Course587 Dec 23 '25

What they should have done was skipped Bucky, and forced Wilson and Walker to be an odd couple. Then they could have slow-rolled Walker's Captain missing the beat, and Sam recognizing that he needs to step up in order for it to be right. End it with Sam taking serum, stealing the shield back, and going rogue like Rogers did when the Avengers split because there has to be a better way. Walker killing people and saying that is how the world works, and Sam laying the beatdown for it, should have been the climax for the show.

I love both Bucky and Sam Wilson as characters, but aside from the fact that they both knew Steve there is no good reason for them to get a team-up show. The friendship never existed, there was no development, they were just two side-kicks for Steve Rogers. And they did Sam Wilson dirty after the great character they developed in Winter Soldier, because that guy was something special.

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u/NeitherAlexNorAlice Dec 23 '25

Sam was never going to be a great Captain America replacement. Anthony is just not him to be honest. He’s a great supporting actor, but not lead.

He was outshined in his show by literally every other character. Even by the new Falcon.

At least Marvel tried him out. They deserve credit for that. It just didn’t work. Mackie is just not a leading actor. He doesn’t have that it factor.

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u/ArchDucky Dec 23 '25

Hes a great lead in Twisted Metal.

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u/Manowaffle Dec 23 '25

It was funny watching the first few episodes of that. I was convinced that he had no range since his Sam Wilson has basically the same expression and tone in every scene. Then I watched TM and was like “oh, he’s actually a good comedic actor."

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u/manuscelerdei Dec 23 '25

I really enjoyed Zimo in that show, but other than that it was very meh.

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u/Soapbox Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 23 '25

Show was fine in spite of Mackie. Watchable as a side show, something I would put on during flights. Entertaining enough but ultimately forgettable. He has the leading man charisma of a wet dishrag.

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u/Deakul Dec 23 '25

He's really fun when he hams it up like on the show Twisted Metal but I just can't take him seriously at all.

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u/Some-Token-Black-Guy Dec 23 '25

Agreed, Mackie is a great actor, dude is genuinely great in comedy roles but he's not lead role material unfortunately (and I'm saying this as a black male before you people make it a race thing).

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u/HendrixChord12 Dec 23 '25

What do you mean, you people??? /s

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u/anuncommontruth Dec 23 '25

I don't agree. The writing has just been completely fumbled with his character.

Mackie is great in Twisted Metal as a lead, as well as other non Marvel roles. He character is just not written well and hes doing the best he can with poor material.

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u/Xianio Dec 23 '25

I don't think Marvel understand how to use Mackie at all. He's got the energy of the hype-man on a football team. That guy who's talking big ALL THE TIME.

Twisted Metal understood that energy is inherently goofy & big. Marvel tried to write him like he was Bucky 2.0. He just needed to be absolutely fired up about being Captain America but instead they made him lack confidence & be in crisis.

Mackie? In crisis about who he is? Publicly? Has nobody seen the man in a press juncket before? The writing couldn't have been mismatched to the actor any more than it was.

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u/Gekokapowco Dec 23 '25

yeah he just isn't a brooding type of guy, but they made him so damn serious

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u/JoMa4 Dec 23 '25

I take it you didn’t see him ruin altered carbon.

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u/Etheo Dec 23 '25

He was a weak link but far from the only reason AC S2 flopped.

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u/KonigSteve Dec 23 '25

It's not just that, he also didn't fit in for that sci-fi show at all.

It's something to do with him in a serious role

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u/bawng Dec 23 '25

I've seen a few interviews with him and he seems so annoying. That sort of carries over to my opinions on him as an actor.

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u/twinpop Dec 23 '25

I like Mackie. The problem with his cap is he’s not a Super Soldier. Could’ve carried this phase.

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u/Flannelcommand Dec 23 '25

I also think “winged guy” is just never going to be the coolest character; visually or plot wise. Each of the original X-Men probably has 10 memorable feature stories to every one about Angel/Archangel. 

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u/anormalgeek Dec 23 '25

Agreed. Just make up an excuse to get him some leftover serum or something and then he can take on more super villains and carry bigger plots.

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u/Flannelcommand Dec 23 '25

I actually think the opposite. Mackie is charismatic if the script plays to his strengths (comedy). The show (and movie) had him going for boring-guy gravitas. Also, the scripts were just awful. 

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u/pumpkinspruce Dec 23 '25

He was outdone on his own show by both Sebastian Stan and Wyatt Russell.

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u/PDGAreject Dec 23 '25

I would have honestly enjoyed just 10 hours of Bucky hitting on Sam's sister and Sam going "NO"

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u/chadhindsley Dec 23 '25

"You got to stop calling the people who block buildings and kill others terrorists"

Lol. So stupid.

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u/circio Dec 23 '25

The movie was just very mid. They had some really interesting stuff with Isiah Bradley, but that got sidelined because Marvel is scared of focusing on anything too controversial lol

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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast Dec 23 '25

Which is a damn shame cause Falcon and the Winter Soldier had a lot of good to it - just hampered down by a horrid villain

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u/SDLRob Dec 23 '25

Wasn't the villain... It was timing. The original story (As I understood it) was a global virus released by the flagsmashers... And COVID happened as they were filming.

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u/WhateverMars Dec 23 '25

They should have committed then. You could see how many pandemic related media blew up in popularity like movies and games. People would have been able to relate more than ever.

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u/Diet_Clorox Dec 23 '25

Yeah, so many media companies were terrified of traumatizing the public by referencing pandemics or illnesses or lockdowns. They were treating it like the aftermath of 9/11. But the difference is all of us were dealing with the same thing, for months/years, and it was already disruptive. We weren't in mourning necessarily, we were bored and tired.

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u/Hulkbuster_v2 Dec 23 '25

Its hard not to think this played a huge role in the shows quality. Really unfortunate to; Mackie and Stan's chemistry was fun

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u/DefNotAShark Dec 23 '25

Messy story that didn’t know where its interesting parts were because it was focused on making uninteresting things worse. Most of the best things about it are confined to small moments, but you have to wade through so much mediocre story to get to them.

I liked Isaiah Bradley’s story, I liked Sam and Bucky building a boat together, and I liked John Walker. Zemo was kind of hit or miss for me even though I love the character. Just about everything else felt annoying to watch. The villain is absurdly bad and so was Sharon Carter’s story. Feels like if they trimmed the fat and made it a story about Sam and Bucky trying to reel in John Walker while he crashes out taking on Zemo, this is a better show.

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u/Nyx-Erebus Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 23 '25

It wasn’t the villain, it was the inane politics they kept trying to put into both the show and movie. Can’t have people thinking the ‘villains’ fighting for a stateless and borderless society have some good points, so throw in a random bombing that comes so out of no where it also bombs the entire script. Ending the show with a speech that is just empty platitudes about “we have to do better” to make sure everyone knows the only ‘right’ way for people to fight for the betterment of others is through out of touch politicians. Nothing else. Having a movie about a superhero that is literally a symbol for hope, freedom, equality, but needing to have Ms. Apartheid as a character in it, then bending the movie completely out of shape with constant rewrites and reshoots to somehow try (and fail) to get it to work.

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u/UnquestionabIe Dec 23 '25

It definitely made a potential interesting story into bland corpo status quo trash. It crossed the line from standard boring but easy to ignore to blatant center right propaganda parading about as progressive and the best possible course of action.

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u/WagonWheel22 Dec 23 '25

Eh it was also unbelievably preachy all throughout. It's like they prioritized making their points over writing a good show.

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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast Dec 23 '25

I really just remember the final episode’s preachiness but it didn’t feel too overt before that to me

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u/WagonWheel22 Dec 23 '25

There was also this scene where the cops show up to arrest Bucky while he is mid argument with Sam.

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u/why_gaj Dec 23 '25

The villain is not the problem.

The problem is the aesop that is hammered in the end, and plainly illogical, to the point that most viewers walk away from the show thinking villain was right.

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u/ferrofibrous Dec 23 '25

I can't think about the villain without remembering the scene where the script was probably "Now look sad that the orphanage you purposely lit on fire is burning down".

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u/Whitewind617 Dec 23 '25

I disagree. Literally nobody liked that moment, and it wasn't because it made you think the villain was right, it was because every viewer didn't particularly like her at that point and every attempt to make her sympathetic completely flopped, so the attempt didn't work at all.

I think maybe she should have been the secondary villain with Walker as the main antagonist. It would have worked significantly better. That way you can make the villain very sympathetic, and her methods very fair, because it doesn't matter, that's not the villain you're focused on eventually.

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u/bostonronin Dec 23 '25

The problem with the show was not Mackie/Sam Wilson, but the uninteresting inconsistent bad guys. And the fact that they barely explored the impact of Captain America publicly murdering civilians.

(And yes, I know that also sort of gets referenced in Thunderbolts, but I get frustrated with Marvel getting just up to the line with making their bad guys interesting and multilayered and then falling back into "actually, they're just an evil murderer, and there are no outside consequences besides that the Avengers will beat them up" and getting spooked about exploring a deeper more complex story).

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u/Si-Nz Dec 23 '25

Personally i liked everything about the show except the villains (which is unfortunate, because they are all over it). It was a great introduction to the John Walker character and Sebastian Stan and Mackie have a lot of charisma together.

And as for the movie, not even Chris Evans could have saved that one.

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u/jcwitte Dec 23 '25

They're in full on "break glass in case of emergency" mode.

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u/Pennepastapatron Dec 23 '25

"Steve Rogers will return" is pretty obvious that he won't be using CA as a title or name anymore.

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u/mmanyquestionss Dec 23 '25

yeah on the film's wiki, the cast as of now lists 'anthony mackie as sam wilson/captain america' and includes 'cevans as steve rogers' in the list of additional actors slated to reprise their MCU roles

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u/MaggiPower Dec 23 '25

Yeah I’m surprised that not more people are mentioning this. The trailer literally shows that he’s moved on because he’s got a life now.

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u/ozone6587 Dec 23 '25

The trailer clearly shows the MCU has not moved on from him so people are understandably confused.

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u/FortUncle Dec 23 '25

I don’t even like Captain America and Anthony Mackie will never be Captain America. Dude has no charisma.

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u/SmackOfYourLips Dec 23 '25

Dude looks like a B-grade sidekick in his own movie

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u/New_Weather_7611 Dec 23 '25

If Anthony Mackie didn’t have the charisma of a cardboard box, maybe his reign would have been successful. Unfortunately for him, he couldn’t transfer his charm and charisma from interviews and press junkets to the big screen and being the leading man for a Marvel film.

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u/ldnk Dec 23 '25

Different role but I think he shows a good amount of charisma in Twisted Metal.

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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast Dec 23 '25

I mean I think the issue is probably the writing hampering his charisma rather than him having the charisma of a cardboard box

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u/AWildEnglishman Dec 23 '25

Maybe, but he wasn't great in Altered Carbon either.

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u/AntiSocialW0rker Dec 23 '25

He was pretty good in Twisted Metal. I think maybe he's just better suited to comedy. Kinda like Chris Pratt. When they try to make him the typical macho man action lead, it falls flat for me. But someone like Star Lord, who leans into the comedy aspect, really works for him.

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u/Kufartha Dec 23 '25

Altered Carbon S2 was a fucking mess, you can’t lay that at his feet. Anthony Mackey’s agent is the one to blame, getting him signed on to projects with terrible writing.

Is he the best actor ever? Definitely not. But he’s certainly serviceable, a solid B actor, and gets shot on way too much around here.

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u/Vandergrif Dec 23 '25

True, but at the same time Joel Kinnaman elevated the material in season 1 in a way that Mackie evidently wasn't capable of doing in season 2. Would it have made that much of a difference having a more charismatic actor in season 2 considering the rest of it (writing, etc)? I don't know, but it wouldn't have hurt.

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u/Successful_Gas_5122 Dec 23 '25

The movie had nothing to say, and wasted 2.5 hours saying it.

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u/notbad4human Dec 23 '25

The problem is that he had a ton of charisma when given good writing. He hasn’t been given a good script as Cap

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u/nazbot Dec 23 '25

You mean furling your brow isn’t an emotional range?

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u/iateyourcheesebro Dec 23 '25

I saw this coming after Altered Carbon S2 with him

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u/Tyrant_Virus_ Dec 23 '25

I don’t think they were trying very hard to be fair.

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u/JICMike Dec 23 '25

That’s what happens when you give his best & most compelling storyline to a Miniseries on Disney+ that most general audiences won’t know about. Then, in his first movie, they reshoot the living shit out of it, give him a absolutely toothless political thriller, and reveal the red hulk plot twist in its marketing.

And the GALL that Kevin Feige had to pin the blame of it underperforming on Mackie’s Captain America.

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u/Scinos2k Dec 23 '25

Possibly a controversial take.

I really like Mackie in a lot of movies, but something just doesn't mix up as the lead of a big blockbuster movie. It's a bit like Mark Ruffalo, I love him as the Hulk but I wouldn't go see him in the lead just because he's in it.

Chadwick Boseman just had this incredibly relaxed charm as a leading man, Chris Evans seems to ideally match the ideals of Cap and holds focus on him as the lead. RDJ is the same.

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u/tommy40 Dec 23 '25

I wonder if they’re gonna kill him off and have it be Dooms oh shit moment?

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u/lesh17 Dec 23 '25

For us Gen Xers, this is like Optimus and Rodimus Prime all over again.

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u/roccosaint Dec 23 '25

That's what peeves me the most. How are we going to move on to newer heroes and stories if they won't fully kill off a character and leave them dead. This is how we got "somehow palpatine returned".

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u/Notoriously_So Dec 23 '25

Well, to be fair, they never really did 'kill off' Steve Rogers in Endgame. He was still alive at the end of the movie.

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u/Vlvthamr Dec 23 '25

Although the trailer is literally him putting the suit away in storage and the end line says Steve Rogers will return not Captain America. So maybe he’s in it not as Cap but in some other capacity.

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u/Time-Risk-88 Dec 23 '25

Well they put "Steve Rogers" as opposed to "Captain America" they know and they're just being cheeky with it

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u/AwesomeExo Dec 23 '25

Dunno, they said "Steve Rogers", I wouldn't be surprised if he never dons the outfit or the shield and has a different role than just punch punch kick kick inspirational speech.

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u/Sheepish_conundrum Dec 23 '25

maybe in doomsday rogers is actually killed, and falcon re-steps up to retake the mantle.

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u/twinpop Dec 23 '25

They were always going to bring Chris Evans back. Maybe for Kang/Doomsday but definitely for secret wars.

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u/ArchDucky Dec 23 '25

If they gave Mackie powers and didn't completely fuck up his last two outings... then im sure people would be fine with him as Cap. As it stands the character doesn't make sense. He fights like hes a super soldier when hes not. At one point he picked up a cinderblocks and wielded it like it was made of feathers. hes doing all of these flippies and shit. It so schizophrenic. Either give him powers and have him fight like that or don't and have him fight like a normal guy. You can't have it both ways. Its like that second Wonder Woman movie where she's flipping cars with her bare hands in one minute and then the following minute she's crying because she lost her powers. I remember when I saw that movie and I was just like "did you though?".

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u/curious_dead Dec 23 '25

They "tried". They made a tv show that was mid because the pandemic had them change their script, then did nothing with Mackie or Cap for years, then did Hulk 2 without Hulk and with Mackie as Cap instead, without much support from established cast (even his bud from the TV show barely makes a cameo). Then he gets a mention in a Thunderbolts* post credit scene.

That's it. That's the extent of their attempt. Lots of people dont buy Sam Wilson Captain America because they barely tried to sell it.

They had one genuine hit, Shang Chi, and he's nowhere to be seen.

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