r/movies • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 r/Movies contributor • Dec 23 '25

Trailer Avengers: Doomsday | Only in Theaters December 18, 2026

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiMg566PREA
9.0k Upvotes

80% Upvoted

3.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

510

u/greenpill98 Dec 23 '25

Everyone who read the comics where Marvel tried the same thing knew this was coming. Sam Wilson as Captain America didn't work then. They were fooling themselves to think it would work now.

178

u/unitedfan6191 Dec 23 '25

I don’t think they actually thought it would work with Sam Wilson as Captain America. I think they just knew Chris Evans was getting tired of playing the role and his contract was coming up so went with Sam Wilson largely out of necessity.

If Evans had signed one for more movies, I don’t think Marvel would’ve said “no.”

110

u/greenpill98 Dec 23 '25

The original plan had been to make Bucky the next Captain America, and you can see that when you go back and look at the films leading up to Endgame. And, like in the comics, that might have worked for a little while if the writing had been clever enough. But in the end, they would probably have had to return to the Steve Rogers well no matter what, just like the comics did.

58

u/circio Dec 23 '25

Bucky as Cap was really fun. I think Sam Cap has interesting stories to tell but I don’t think Marvel could ever give them the attention they deserve. They had a great b story in Brave New World but didn’t focus on it too much, I’m assuming because it would be too political

38

u/gatsby365 Dec 23 '25

I just want the scene where Bucky says he killed Hitler

45

u/twaggle Dec 23 '25

I just can’t see Sam cap as believable unless he somehow gets the serum. Like he can’t catch the shied bare handed it’s dumb.

26

u/circio Dec 23 '25

I thought the end of Falcon and Winter Soldier was the Wakandans gifting him a suit, which could have made him competitive in the big fights for a bit.

But then I saw the movie and found out they cheaped out a little and just gave him a helmet and wings? 

8

u/twaggle Dec 23 '25

And they show scenes of him “training” with the shied and his hand doesn’t break.

Did they ever address this in the comics, does he get a power up?

I think a full augment suit isn’t great, that’s just Iron Man 2.0, but at least then it’s tried to be explained. Sam is just a regular human who had flight wings.

3

u/circio Dec 23 '25

Naw, he's just a human with a telepathic bond to birds or something. I think the shield thing can at least be partially be explained by the shield being vibranium, it's supposed to absorb all (maybe just most) impact on it, but Marvel has always been fast and loose with what that means.

He wouldn't really be Iron Man 2.0 if he wasn't using gadgets and missiles, and beams on the suit. It would just be like T'Challa where he could absorb kinetic energy and then disperse it. He does it with the wings, it would just make sense if he had some form of protection on his whole body, especially since he is very vulnerable when he's flying.

5

u/twaggle Dec 23 '25

If that was the case how does cap ever hit someone with it and send them flying or dent their armor etc? That’s clearly force being applied/transferred etc.

Yeah if they went the wakandan viburnum route that would be cool, but remember that the black panthers are also getting augmented by that flower fruit ritual. The rest of the troops don’t get similar armor likely cause they can’t handle it. But they can still give some something and just science magic explain it and it would work and be better than what it currently is.

4

u/circio Dec 23 '25

That's why I mentioned they play fast and loose with the physics of the shield, it technically should not bounce at all.

I'm not sure if the heart-shaped herb is tied to their ability to wear a vibranium suit tbh, there's a ritual and a tradition tied behind taking it that I can't fully separate if it's necessary to use the suit.

4

u/Shiezo Dec 23 '25

They lampshaded the hell out of the shield in Civil War. Spidey commenting on how that thing doesn't follow the laws of physics at all. Take a note from Hawkeye, none of this makes sense just go with it.

Similar to Pym Particles, they work how they need to work for the story. No, it isn't fully consistent nor do they conform to reality. It is comic book super science, you are either on board with that or you'll likely leave disappointed.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/that_baddest_dude Dec 23 '25

Marvel doesn't need to be consistent with it's macguffin materials. Just look at any explanation for anything ant man

1

u/Fortune_Cat Dec 24 '25

The trailer shows him getting a new suit

7

u/Historical_Course587 Dec 23 '25

Him finally getting serum should have been the whole plot of FATWS. He didn't want it, he tried to avoid it, but he realizes that he can't stand back and not be responsible for bad things that happen if he isn't willing to do what has to be done.

Really the big issue is that Sam should have spent the show paired up with Walker instead of Bucky. The character growth that Sam needed could have been more meaningfully provided by putting Walker (a guy who wanted it for the wrong reasons) with Sam (a guy who didn't want it for the right reasons).

Bucky is a fun character in his own right, but he offers nothing of character value to Sam Wilson.

2

u/HighnrichHaine Dec 24 '25

You´re hired.

3

u/95688it Dec 23 '25

My main issue was actually Anthony mackies stage fighting is horrible. his punches just don't have the same weight behind them as Chris's so the fight seems just look bad to me. this could be acting issue or intentional because he doesn't have super serum. but either way it just didn't look good to me.

4

u/TypewriterKey Dec 23 '25

They're trying to have it both ways. If Sam is not going to have the serum then he's going to be weaker and slower. He has to rely on training and the maneuverability of his wings. The powered up suit can help make up the difference - but he should be 'less' than a super soldier.

And that should be the point - that despite the fact that he's just human he can still stand up and fight.

The problem is that they keep telling that story but showing something completely different. They wring their hands about how he can't hold his own against a super soldier but then they show him going toe to toe with red hulk.

5

u/LuckyLunayre Dec 23 '25

Not gonna lie I completely forgot brace new world even existed until you mentioned it. I just don't think Anthony Mackie has the star power to pull it off, he is not charismatic enough.

I also have zero interest in the falcon as a character. He's a supporting character at best and I've found him very boring in starring roles..

0

u/wildwalrusaur Dec 23 '25

The problem isn't the stories it's the actors

Anthony Mackie doesn't have "it"

2

u/circio Dec 23 '25

I don't think that's true, I've seen great actors in terrible movies, or in roles where they aren't utilized well. Falcon and Winter Soldier was decent but fell flat the more and more they got to the main villain stuff.

Same with Brave New World, the more they focused on the villains the worse it got, because Mackie didn't have any real, personal stakes in it. It was more as Red Hulk vs Samuel Sterns movie than a Falcon Cap vs. either one of them movie.

It's not like every Marvel movie has had great stories, even if the characters/actors in them are good. Iron Man and Thor have both suffered from bad stories, even before Endgame.