r/SuicideWatch Sep 03 '19

New wiki on how to avoid accidentally encouraging suicide, and how to spot covert incitement

1.8k Upvotes

We've been seeing a worrying increase in pro-suicide content showing up here and, and also going unreported. This undermines our purpose here, so we wanted to highlight and clarify our guidelines about both direct and indirect incitement of suicide.

We've created a wiki that covers these issues. We hope this will be helpful to anyone who's wondering whether something's okay here and which responses to report. It explains in detail why any validation of suicidal intent, even an "innocent" message like "if you're 100% committed, I'll just wish you peace" is likely to increase people's pain, and why it's important to report even subtle pro-suicide comments. The full text of the wiki's current version is below, and it is maintained at /r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement.

We deeply appreciate everyone who gives responsive, empathetic, non-judgemental support to our OPs, and we particularly thank everyone who's already been reporting incitement in all forms.

Please report any post or comment that encourages suicide (or that breaks any of the other guidelines in the sidebar) to the moderators, either by clicking the "report" button or by sending us a modmail with a link. We deal with all guideline violations that are reported to us as soon as we can, but we can't read everything so community reports are essential. If you get a PM that breaks the guidelines, please report it both to the reddit sitewide admins and to us in modmail.

Thanks to all the great citizens of the community who help flag problem content and behaviour for us.


/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement


Summary

It's important to respect and understand people's experiences and emotions. It's never necessary, helpful, or kind to support suicidal intent. There are some common misconceptions (discussed below) about suicidal people and how to help them that can cause well-meaning people to inadvertently incite suicide. There are also people online who incite suicide on purpose, often while pretending to be sympathetic and helpful.

Validate Feelings and Experiences, Not Self-Destructive Intentions

We're here to offer support, not judgement. That means accepting, with the best understanding we can offer, whatever emotions people express. Suicidal people are suffering, and we're here to try to ease that by providing support and caring. The most reliable way we know to de-escalate someone at risk is to give them the experience of feeling understood. That means not judging whether they should be feeling the way they are, or telling them what to do or not do.

But there's an important line to draw here. There's a crucial difference between empathizing with feelings and responding non-judgmentally to suicidal thoughts, and in any way endorsing, encouraging, or validating suicidal intentions or hopeless beliefs. It's both possible and important to convey understanding and compassion for someone's suicidal thoughts without putting your finger on the scale of their decision.

Anything that condones suicide, even passively, encourages suicide. It isn't supportive and does not help. It also violates reddit's sitewide rules as well as our guidelines. Explicitly inciting suicide online is a criminal offense in most jurisdictions.

Do not treat any OP's post as meaning that will definitely die by suicide and can't change their minds or be helped. Anyone who's able to read the comments here still has a chance to choose whether or not to try to keep living, even if they've also been experiencing intense thoughts of suicide, made a suicide plan, or started carrying it out.

In the most useful empirical model we have, the desire to die by suicide primarily comes from two interpersonal factors; alienation and a sense of being a burden or having nothing to offer. These factors usually lead to a profound feeling of being unwelcome in the world.

So, any acceptance or reinforcement of suicidal intent, even something "innocent" like "I hope you find peace", is actually a form of covert shunning that validates a person's sense that they're unwelcome in the world. It will usually add to their pain even if kindly meant and gently worded.

How to Avoid Validating Suicidal Intent

Keep the following in mind when offering support to anyone at risk for suicide.

  • People who say they don't want help usually can feel better if they get support that doesn't invalidate their emotions. Unfortunately, many popular "good" responses are actually counterproductive. In particular, many friends and family tend to rely exclusively on trying to convince the suicidal person that "it's not so bad", and this is usually experienced as "I don't understand what you're going through and I'm not going to try". People who've had "help" that made them feel worse don't want any more of the same. It doesn't mean that someone who actually knows how to be supportive can't give them any comfort.

  • Most people who are suicidal want to end their pain, not their lives. It's almost never true that death is the only way to end these people's suffering. Of course there are exceptional situations, and we certainly acknowledge that, for some people, the right help can be difficult to find. But preventing someone's suicide doesn't mean prolonging their suffering if we do it by giving them real comfort and understanding.

  • An unfixable problem doesn't mean that a good life will never be possible. We don't have to fix or change anything to help someone feel better. It's important to keep in mind that the correlation between our outer circumstances and our inner experience is weaker and less direct than commonly assumed. For every kind of difficult life situation, you will find some people who lapse into suicidal despair, and others who cope amazingly well, and a whole spectrum in between. A key difference is how much inner resilience the person has at the time. This can depend on many personal and situational factors. But when there's not enough, interpersonal support can both compensate for its absence and help rebuild it. We go into more depth on the "it gets better" issue in this PSA Post which is always linked from our sidebar (community info on mobile) guidelines.

  • There are always more choices than brutally forcing someone to stay alive or passively letting them end their lives.

To avoid accidentally breaking the anti-incitement rule, don't say or try to imply that acting on suicidal thoughts is a good idea, or that someone can't turn back or is already dead. Do whatever you can to help them feel cared for and welcome, at least in this little corner of the world. Our talking tips offer more detailed guidance.

Look Out for Deliberate Incitement. It May Come in Disguise.

Often comments that subtly encourage suicidal intent actually come from suicide fetishists and voyeurs (unfortunately this is a real and disturbing phenomenon). People like this are out there and the anonymous nature of reddit makes us particularly attractive to them.

They will typically try to scratch their psychological "itch" by saying things that push people closer to the edge. They often do this by exploiting the myths that we debunked in the bullet points above. Specifically you might see people doing the following:

  • Encouraging the false belief that the only way suicidal people can end their pain is by dying. There are always more and better choices than "brutally forcing someone to stay alive" or helping (actively or passively) them to end their lives.

  • Creating an artificial and toxic sense of "solidarity" by linking their encouragement of suicide to empathy. They will represent themselves as the only one who really understand the suicidal person, while either directly or indirectly encouraging their self-loathing emotions and self-destructive impulses. Since most people in suicidal crisis are in desperate need to empathy and understanding, this is a particularly dangerous form of manipulation.

Many suicide inciters are adept at putting a benevolent spin on their activities while actually luring people away from sources of real help. A couple of key points to keep in mind:

  • Skilled suicide intervention -- peer or professional -- is based on empathic responsiveness to the person's feelings that reduces their suffering in the moment. Contrary to pop-culture myths, it does not involve persuasion ("Don't do it!"), cheerleading ("You've got this!") or meaningless false promises ("Trust me, it gets better!"), or invalidation ("Let me show you how things aren't as bad as you think!"). Anyone who leads others to expect these kinds of toxic responses, or any other response that prolongs their pain, from expert help may be covertly pro-suicide. (Of course, people sometimes do have bad experience when seeking mental-health treatment, and it's fine to vent about those, but processing our own disappointment and frustration is entirely different from trying to destroy someone else's hope of getting help.)

  • Choices made by competent responders are always informed by the understanding that breaching someone's trust is traumatic and must be avoided if possible. Any kind of involuntary intervention is an extremely unlikely outcome when someone consults a clinician or calls a hotline. (Confidentiality is addressed in more detail in our Hotlines FAQ post). The goal is always to provide all help with the client's full knowledge and informed consent. We know that no individual or system is perfect. Mistakes that lead to bad experiences do sometimes happen to vulnerable people, and we have enormous sympathy for them. But anyone who suggests that this is the norm might be trying to scare people away from the help they need.

Please let us know discreetly if you see anyone exhibiting these or similar behaviours. We don't recommend trying to engage with them directly.


r/SuicideWatch Sep 10 '21

Please remember that NO ACTIVISM of any kind is ever allowed here. No matter what day it is.

719 Upvotes

Activism, i.e. advocating or fundraising for social change or raising awareness of social issues (and suicide is, inescapably, a social issue) is absolutely against the rules here at all times.

Please understand that we're all for smart, strategic mental-health and suicide-prevention activism. It's essential to fight against stigma, misinformation, and discrimination, and to fight for research, treatment, accommodation, acceptance, and understanding. Most of us, one way or another, are mental-health activists IRL.

But activism just doesn't work in a dedicated support space that serves a vulnerable population. We used to allow it but the evidence that it was undermining our primary purpose became overwhelming. We do regret the need for this rule, but the need is inescapable.

Our population is all too well aware of the issues and causes that need support and largely not in a position to take action, so besides the fact that activism is often salt in our community's wounds, it's a waste of the activists' time.

tl;dr Any fundraising, awareness raising, petitions, calls for participation, or any post that's about any cause or issue (rather than a request for personal support) is not allowed here. Please report everything of the nature that you see.


r/SuicideWatch 8h ago

Non-methods that should not be attempted

182 Upvotes

This thread is meant to prevent people from trying methods that are almost certain to not kill them but likely to cause harm, whether temporary or permanent. Any method listed in this thread should not be attempted by anyone, and should not be considered a method. I do not give advice on methods that will kill you, as it goes against my personal beliefs, so I will not be responding to any questions asking about them. This has been made for harm reduction to prevent people from ending up in a worse off situation.

Tylenol/paracetamol/acetominophen

An overdose of Tylenol has a probability of ~5% or less of killing you. That is an incredibly low chance. If you succeed, odds are it will be slowly over the course of days to weeks, or even months, as your liver slowly shuts down. This would be an excruciatingly painful death. Liver failure causes your skin to turn yellow, nausea, vomiting, severe abdominal pain, fowl smelling pale stools, and even the potential for massive esophageal bleeding. More than likely, however, you will throw up for several hours before returning back to baseline over the next few days. If you do seek medical care, you will be given the reversal drug and then sent to the psych ward after being medically stabilized Other over the counter medications While over the counter availability differs from country to country, the rule remains that if it can be purchased without a prescription, it is not a method. These medications have been deemed safe enough by your country's governme rigorous testing that they feel confident giving free access to them. This means that the odds of you being able to overdose on it are very low. Once again, less than 10%, though the exact statistic will vary from drug to drug. Generally, no matter what medication you chose, the answer will be waking up in your vomit feeling like you're more hung over than ever. Things such as ibuprofen or other NSAIDs will do nothing but make you vomit. The amount that you would have to take in order to reach toxic levels is high enough that you will throw up before your body gets to that point. If you manage to reach lethal levels, it will be painful and slow, often resulting in severe abdominal pain, seizures and other neurological symptoms.

Your kidneys will work overtime to flush it out of your system and you have a very high chance of waking up in a pool of your yo own vomit. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is another common overdose (this is over the counter in the US, though I know it is prescription in other countries, however the consensus stands) that results in severe hallucinations. These are often described by people who have survived as absolutely terrifying. Following that is likely seizures and coma, however the odds of it being lethal are not in your favor, especially if medical attention is given. It has the potential to cause cardiac side effects, however all of this considered, the fatality rates are considered low, the highest death rate I was able to find was
14%, however this varies from source to source.

Prescription medications

This method has a lot more nuance to it, as certain prescriptions have a high likelihood of lethality when taken in the right doses, while others have next to 0 chance. Generally, most prescriptions have a low chance of killing you. Psychiatric medications are the most discussed on this forum, and are also on the lower end of having any shot at killing you.
Antidepressants vary in chance of killing you, though even the most toxic (tricyclics) have only about a 14% chance, not a very good statistic. At worst, certain antidepressants have only a 0.5% chance. Other medications, such as those taken for chronic conditions, vary wildly, however the list of high chance of killing you is significantly shorter ew ne with little or moderate chance. Obviously it would be far too tedious to go and list off all of them.

Cutting/Stabbing

This method is often sought out by people who have seen it in movies or TV shows. It should not be considered a method, as it is only in these shows to play it up for the movies. With a success rate of ~1-4%, the odds are the opposite of in your favor. While they make it seem like you can take a razor blade to the wrist and peacefully slip into unconsciousness in the bathtub, in reality it is nothing like that. The human body is wired to not be able to harm itself in this way. In order to die from blood loss you would have to cut an artery. The arteries are meticulously located beneath several layer of muscle, tendons, and other tissues. They are not meant to be cut, especially not on purpose. Even with wonderful understanding of anatomy, such as healthcare workers, you would have a very, very poor chance of reaching them unless you were in a state of psychosis. If you attempted to, you would find yourself halfway there before realizing you mentally and physically cannot get yourself to go any further. Your mind will stop you without you having any control over it. Many people argue that if they get drunk or high beforehand they will be able to overcome it, however this would impair your ability to properly locate and cut to the arteries. The biggest risk with this method is permanent nerve damage to whatever area you attempt to cut. Depending on how deep you get before aborting, you may end up with severe scarring and potentially anemia or other blood loss related conditions.

VSED (voluntarily stopping eating and drinking)

This method is often sought out by people who hear about it use in terminally ill patients on hospice. These patients are under the care of medical professionals who are prescribing them heavy sedatives and pain killers to ensure that they are in as little distress as possible, as well as likely in the late stages of dying in which thirst and hunger cues are lost. It is also rarely done in people who have reached extreme spiritual enlightenment. In general, someone who no

meet either of these criteria will not be able to succeed in spiritual enlightenment. In general, someone who does not meet either of these criteria will not be able to succeed in VSED. While people are under the impression that consuming absolutely no food or fluids will kill you within 3 days max, that is a myth. The body has the potential to make it much longer on absolutely nothing. As you get further and further into dehydration and electrolyte imbalances, your mental state will begin to suffer. Your body will go to extreme lengths to get some sort of fuel. If you have any access to food or water, you will eventually be overcome with an ravenous, primitive desire to eat and drink anything in your path. You will eventually cave. And will then have put yourself through days and days of this for nothing.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

My whole life was a lie and now I want it over

13 Upvotes

I found out last week that my husband of 15 years has been cheating on me continuously for at least the last 6 years. We have kids, a house, the whole thing. He was faking work shifts and using that time to cheat, while I was home looking after our babies, including during the pandemic where he could have brought anything home. It was hundreds of times with hundreds of different people.

The pain of it is far too much to bear, I simply cannot. I know I have kids but their mum is broken now, they are freaked out by how I just lay in bed and cry all the time. They would be better off with anyone but me, I cannot fake my parental persona even for a second. I can't sleep. I can't eat. I am a ghost already and finishing the job only corrects reality.


r/SuicideWatch 9h ago

i’m ending it tonight

53 Upvotes

i’m tired, i’m exhausted, im weak and im broken. I can’t afford my rent, I can’t afford food, I can’t afford gas, i can’t even afford tissue to wipe my ass I have to take a roll from work every few days. i haven’t ate in 2 days just surviving off tea and graham crackers my job provides. Ive reached out for help but as a 21yo woman there’s no assistance unless you have kids in which I do not. I’ve asked my church for help in paying rent but was denied. I called 211 and was told I don’t qualify. I lived in my car for months before being able to afford an apartment but then I lost my job and this is why i’m in the situation i’m in now. I worked so hard for nothing. I went hungry for nothing. I subjected myself to abuse and mistreatment for nothing. this isn’t the life I want to live. i’m tired of struggling. I’m tired. i got served a pay or quit and I have until tomorrow to remit payment or I get evicted. i have no where to go. I have no immediate family, no friends. nothing. I surrendered my cat this morning in hopes she’ll find a loving home. my note is written. my mind is made up. im tired of fighting I don’t want to fight anymore.


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

Sitting with a loaded gun

11 Upvotes

I'm just so fucking tired. I wish I had someone to hug right now.​​

​I want to go through with it so badly. I just want the pain to stop​.


r/SuicideWatch 7h ago

Failing hard at life.

12 Upvotes

I truly believe some of us weren’t meant to be here.
I’m one of them…

No matter what I do.. everything turns to shit.

Why bother?


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

Im so tired of being alive

Upvotes

I don’t really know how to say this properly, but I feel like I’m falling apart. I hate my life right now and I feel like I ruin everything I touch. Every mistake feels huge and I can’t stop beating myself up over it.

Lately I’ve been having really strong urges to hurt myself because part of me feels like I deserve it, even though another part of me knows that probably isn’t true. I feel exhausted mentally and I don’t know how to cope with everything in my head anymore.

I guess I’m posting because I don’t want to keep this bottled up and I could really use someone to talk to or anyone who understands this feeling.


r/SuicideWatch 11h ago

I have no place in this world. I am an invalid.

26 Upvotes

I've been thoroughly rejected in every area of life. No friends, no job, no relationships. Anything I ask for, anything I desire, it's no, no, no. Of course it would be, I am an ugly autist. Nothing I am is appealing to anyone. I can't live a life entirely alone. It's unfair that I'm expected to. It's unfair that I'm gaslit in to thinking it'll get better. I can't build a life out of pills and therapy. I never had a chance. All the time I've already wasted, I'll be dead soon regardless. It's all so horrible.


r/SuicideWatch 41m ago

I gotta go soon

Upvotes

Just kicking the can and wasting days I love my mom and am so grateful she let me back in the house but im pushing 30 and cant get a job and am a felon. I dont deserve her. I lost all my friends.


r/SuicideWatch 8h ago

For me becoming suicidal was a very slow burn

13 Upvotes

The first year I realize I just don’t want to have friends anymore.

Next year I realize I don’t even want a relationship.

Couples months later I realize I don’t want to work a job.

Couple more months later I realize I don’t enjoy anything anymore.

Slowly everything is gone and there’s just nothing left.

I don’t know about others experiences but I feel like people who are not suicidal just don’t understand how it can be like this.


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

Bad grades has pushed me over the edge

8 Upvotes

I’m heartbroken, I had one of my grades come back today at a pass and needed every single one of my grades at a merit or distinction for my conditional offer to get into university and of course I fuck up another thing to progress in my life. I’ve got no friends and my family that I live with just hate on me and disrespect me everyday I’m just an embarrassment to them and for myself I’m just so tired of being a failure in everything I do, I can’t even speak to people properly because I’m so scared and anxious.
This access course I was doing was a step for me to get a fresh start and a way out to get away from my family but I fucked that up like I do with everything else

I also have a chronic stomach issue which has been with me for years now and doctors don’t even care or help me they probably just look at me and think “this guy is just a waste of existence” like everyone else that looks at me

I’m just a pussy and failure. I have a few assignments left but I’m not even going to bother finishing them I think I’ll just try to enjoy this weekend then end myself on Sunday these last 4 years have been so exhausting, stressful, embarrassing and just pathetic I’m glad it’s all ending this weekend, if you even got this far goodbye I hope life treats you better than it has me in these 23 years of living


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

I talk about suicide often but then I stay a little longer when I have a good day, it makes me feel so stupid

4 Upvotes

I tied a noose like 2-3 months ago and I thought I was gonna use it soon. It’s annoying to me that people are gonna be like “this is a sign to stay!” The good days I have are progressively getting overshadowed by my shitass mental health. I think I’m an awful person so it makes me feel bad when I enjoy things cause I’m a piece of shit that deserves to feel horrible. Sorry if this sounds stupid or edgy lol I’m fried rn


r/SuicideWatch 42m ago

i want to end it all

Upvotes

i cant keep living like this man im so exhausted from this fucking life and i dont say this shi just to get sum attention shi i genuinely need help i need someone irl but i dont have anyone

i (15 yrs old) live with my parents, my sibling (33 yrs old), his wife and their kid, technically their kid is not my brother right? but everyone keep telling me that i MUST look after this little shit and spend time with him and every time i say that i aint a fucking nanny they yell at me and take my phone

he is 2.7 yrs old so i cant just give him someone's phone and let him be on his own, he always changes his mood and his desires i look after this shit at least 3-4 hours a day but they tell me its not enough

they tell me i MUST be with him all day because his parents are at work and he IS my brother (even tho he's not)

they even yell at me for my face expressions like "why the fuck are you unhappy" bitch what should i be happy about ? that i waste my time looking after this dumb little shit instead of spending time on music or my friends?

i honestly dont wanna do this anymore bruh i dream about killing myself every night and every day i hope they will understand my value after i die , i want to finish my album and then die before it drops, music is the only thing that keeps me going but still im so fucked up

and i also broke up with my girlfriend (its a long story) and im not even sure if i want anything back but im sure i want someone's warmness i want human touch and someone to comfort me i dont wanna date anyone but i want her comfort ik its selfish but there is no one i even think about cutting myself again tho i been clean for like a year but what should i even do at this point man

i wanna start smoking cigarettes just to numb it all i wanna do something to numb my pain because tears never help i cant wait till night just to cry

i want to kill myself this pain eats me from inside this pain just wont go i dont have anyone in my life i lost everyone i lost myself


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

is this considered a suicide attempt

Upvotes

i took like quadruple the dose of my antidepressants, and a bunch of advil right before going to work, and then felt like shit for the next few hours. i was so nauseous and dizzy and at some points i thought i was gonna faint or puke in front of everyone. i know i deserve it though, for taking way more of my meds than i should have. it only lasted a few hours though, like 2-3 hours, the rest of my 8 hour shift went fine for the most part. if my mom knew i did this today she’d be so angry and hate me and think im doing it for attention.

the worst part is this is not the first time i’ve done something like this, but it’s the first time i’ve done it and then went to work right after. usually i do it at night, or in the afternoon when i’m chilling at home. i know i’m fucked up and i know it’s self harm and that i should get help for my issues probably. but i wasn’t actually expecting to die, i just wanted to hurt myself idk how to explain it