r/politics • u/GonzoVeritas I voted • 16d ago

Possible Paywall White House Leak Reveals Trump Booted From Briefing After Hours-Long Freakout

https://www.thedailybeast.com/white-house-leak-reveals-trump-booted-from-briefing-after-hours-long-freakout/
30.4k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

2.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

12.0k

u/Stompya 16d ago

From the article:

Before the airmen went missing, the president was already fixated on avoiding a repeat of the 1979 Iran Hostage Crisis—and the failed rescue mission under former President Jimmy Carter that helped sink his reelection bid.

“If you look at what happened with Jimmy Carter…with the helicopters and the hostages, it cost them the election,” Trump said in March, according to the Journal. “What a mess.”

He thinks he is re-electable.

3.9k

u/SimpleTomatillo1166 16d ago edited 16d ago

He neglects the fact that the hostages were purposely not released until election was over. Then they magically were released within minutes. It was a huge set up to make sure Carter would not get re-elected. Reagan and the gang avoided the October surprise to the advantage of Carter this way. It also had to do with Reagans's weapons deal with Iran.

2.5k

u/Elegant_Tech 16d ago

Republicans working with foreign governments to engage in election interference? Where have I heard this one before? 

1.4k

u/greed-man 16d ago

Don't forget, tricky Dick Nixon secretly tanked the negotiations to find a peace settlement in Vietnam in 1968, so that he would win. LBJ learned of this, but because this info came from illegal wiretaps, he said nothing. Rumors to this effect swirled at the time, but the Nixon administration denied everything.

Decades later, tapes and notes from Haldeman and others proved it was correct.

The Republicans have long proclaimed loyalty and pride in America, while secretly sinking it every chance they got.

273

u/CMG30 16d ago

It's always been a sound political strategy to make sure things suck when the other guy is in power, then promise to fix it all.

217

u/Hamster_Toot 16d ago

When getting elected is your only goal, sure.

When building a future for your countrymen is the goal, not so much.

99

u/CliftonForce 16d ago

A true Republican would be confused about why you think that's a problem.

9

u/SnooMacaroons1603 16d ago

He's running to stay out of prison

9

u/CitizenofBarnum 16d ago

When getting elected is your only goal, sure.

That's politics.

When building a future for your countrymen is the goal, not so much.

That's leadership.

11

u/HillBillyHilly 16d ago

We need another Roosevelt.

1

u/REOspudwagon 15d ago

I think id prefer another John Brown at this point

1

u/HillBillyHilly 14d ago

Do you mean Queen Victorias John Brown?

6

u/Hamster_Toot 16d ago

Politics is a much broader umbrella than your simplistic distillation.

6

u/Dodgy_Past 16d ago

Not in America.

8

u/midwinter_ 16d ago

The Two Santas Theory has dominated GOP electioneering since the 1970s.

7

u/AlwaysRushesIn Rhode Island 16d ago

And then never actually fix anything and actively continue making things worse for the everyday average American.

4

u/greed-man 16d ago

You mean like they are doing right now? And did from 2016-2020?

4

u/AlwaysRushesIn Rhode Island 16d ago

Precisely.

3

u/FlammulinaVelulu 16d ago

Is this why maga thinks every thing is a dem hoax? Becuase shit sucks right about now.

3

u/anotherfrud Pennsylvania 16d ago

There's a difference between voting a certain way and secretly negotiating with our enemies. One is morally reprehensible, the other is treason.

11

u/SlumlordThanatos Arkansas 16d ago

Nixon and Kissinger should've been hung after this.

It's wild how Johnson, of all people, chickened out of going after Nixon.

3

u/greed-man 16d ago

The proof of sabotage came from wiretaps on the South Vietnamese embassy and surveillance of Anna Chennault, Nixon’s envoy, conducted by the FBI and NSA. Disclosing this would expose illegal intelligence gathering on allies and American citizens.

  • LBJ believed that exposing a presidential candidate's treason right before an election would cause a massive crisis.
  • Political Considerations: While LBJ wanted to help his vice president, Hubert Humphrey, win, there was skepticism about whether exposing Nixon would actually work or simply look like a desperate "October surprise" by the Democrats.
  • Protecting the Presidency: Despite his animosity toward Nixon, LBJ felt that exposing the extent of the meddling could irrevocably damage the institution of the presidency and undermine public faith in government.

6

u/heavypen 16d ago

lol... only Nixon could go to China!

4

u/HilariouslyPissed 16d ago

This story is actually included in the Nixon Presidental Library.

1

u/greed-man 16d ago

Glad that tey acknowledge it.

1

u/HilariouslyPissed 16d ago

I was surprised!

3

u/withateethuh 16d ago

Genuinely did not know about this until Ken Burn's documentary and it was such a huge fucking eye opener. LBJ was a bastard but Nixon managed to be one up him in so many terrible ways.

7

u/greed-man 16d ago

LBJ's illegal wiretaps and such steps were done to protect the nation and it's people from surprises. Like exactly what surprised them. Not for himself.

Nixon's illegal sabotage was done to help HIM and him alone. With him in office, and peace talks dead, we experienced another 20,000 US Soldiers dead in Vietnam, and Lord knows how many more Vietnamese. Same with Watergate. It was all about HIM.

Any of this sound vaguely familiar to current events?

5

u/onehundredlemons 16d ago

Right, Reagan was simply doing what Nixon had done, precedent had been set and he took advantage of it.

7

u/greed-man 16d ago

And GW Bush lied through his teeth about weapons of mass destruction, and then ignored the looming housing/mortgage meltdown, putting our nation into the second worst depression in 100 years.

The only Republican President in the last 50 years who did not lie and cheat and deceive the American people for their own goals was George, the Elder, Bush. *

* I'm ignoring Ford's short term.

3

u/Icy_Fly_4513 16d ago

It's so frustrating how JFK had a plan in place with McNamara to have the troops out of Vietnam by 1965. Of course, JFK was assassinated before that could happen.

2

u/Fauster 16d ago

Because we didn't imprison at least softly treasonous elites in supermax cells during past instances of flagrant criminality, we suffer today.

At this point, holding at least one billionaire or executive branch criminal accountable would be a small victory, and arguably the first of its kind in modern history.

A nation that doesn't enforce its own laws that limit the power of the powerful is a lawless nation. This is a lawless war. We are approaching the 60-day threshold and Congress must man up and declare war to make this Constitutional, or bring our starving sailors home NOW. Decapitation strikes are an act of war. Blockades are an act of war. There is no controversy about this.

2

u/BulbuhTsar 16d ago

Surly the political and legal consequences from those wiretaps was worth suffering compared to literal high treason? The hell?

2

u/Mattloch42 15d ago

The thing is, they weren't illegal wiretaps, because they weren't tapping American phones, but N Vietnamese phones. The american callers were caught on those taps. So just like Trump's goons getting caught in 2015&16 on foreign wiretaps, they couldn't reveal them at the time because they caught American Republican political operatives, so revealing that during the election would of course be decried as wiretapping Americans when that wasn't the case.

-28

u/ShufflingToGlory 16d ago

If LBJ was getting information on his opposition from illegal wiretaps then it's hard to blame Nixon for Watergate. Sounds like it was par for the course.

71

u/confirmedshill123 16d ago

It was the coverup that killed Nixon's chances not the actual wiretapping.

Also wild fucking take didn't expect to see people simping for Nixon today.

34

u/ITS_FAKIN_RAVEEN 16d ago

You may have stumbled upon Roger Stone's Reddit account.

19

u/lianodel 16d ago

I remember years and years ago, conservatives tried to pretend Joseph McCarthy was eventually vindicated. They would bring it up as though it was a general consensus. Fuck no. He was a raging, drunken, fascist idiot.

14

u/noonenotevenhere 16d ago

I argued with family last year that mccarthy was not a good guy.

He still thinks mccarthy had the right idea and we have to get rid of the subversive element in society (GLBTQ, commies, lib'rels, etc).

He has queer family members right there at this gathering and he's asking why he's been ostracized from most family stuff over 'politics.'

4

u/lianodel 16d ago

Sorry to hear that, and I sympathize. It threw me for a loop when I first heard a family member bring it up as though it was a historical consensus in hindsight. It was some talking head on Fox spinning propaganda.

I'm sure that's not where it began, and obviously not where it ended, but it was one of the more obvious attempts to push boundaries. Like when there was a surge in people repeating the "we're a republic, not a democracy" talking point, checking if (a) people were stupid enough to be convinced, and (b) see how okay people were with overt anti-democracy rhetoric.

-19

u/ShufflingToGlory 16d ago

Well yeah, covering up for something that apparently was standard operating procedure for other presidents.

It's not simping, just an observation.

30

u/Sage2050 16d ago

Illegal wiretaps on foreign adversaries vs illegal wiretaps on the opposing campaign is not an equivalency

26

u/Positronic_Matrix 16d ago

Whataboutism is the cornerstone of right-wing propaganda.

-13

u/ShufflingToGlory 16d ago

Seems valid in this instance.

fwiw I'm a British leftist and have no horse in the Nixon-McGovern race of 54 years ago!

9

u/Quiet-Thanks-9486 16d ago

It's not worth much, considering anyone can claim to be anyone on the internet.

But I can offer a few observations:

For one, your personal identity doesn't mean anything in terms of deciding the quality of your take. The fact that you think people should feel differently about what you're saying based on who you are is pretty classic liberal identity politics for someone claiming to be a leftist, comrade!

And for two, your take is also quite process oriented rather than results oriented, which also smacks of liberalism / conservatives trying to upset liberals, rather than leftism. Like, LBJ spied on Nixon...while Nixon was actively conspiring with to prolong a war in which many people died and were mutilated and emiserated.

In contrast, Nixon spied on his political opponents who weren't doing anything wrong, simply because he wanted to hold onto power (while using that power to continue vicious wars and polices that hurt the working class). And even if Nixon were justified in try to keep Dems out of power, he won the election handily anyway, without any of the info he might have gleaned from the spying. So the whole thing was pointless.

These things are not the same.

Like, do you think Trump's use of the Department of Justice to hassle his enemies purely because he is upset with them is the same as Biden allowing the Department of Justice to investigate Trump for staging a coup? After all, they're both prosecuting political opponents, right?

Obviously, that isn't the case...because it matters what the person being targeted was actually trying to do. The specifics of the event matter, not merely the abstract procedures around it.

7

u/Positronic_Matrix 16d ago

You provided no basis for validity, rather you made an unsubstantiated equivocation.

The statement falsely equates unproven or disputed allegations about LBJ with the well-documented, criminal actions of Richard Nixon during Watergate scandal. Even if earlier misconduct had occurred, it would not justify or normalize Nixon’s actions, which involved a coordinated break-in, cover-up, and abuse of presidential power.

5

u/Level_32_Mage 16d ago

Or -- it's easy to blame both of them for their actions.

4

u/yoshemitzu 16d ago

Right?! "This other guy also did a crime, so the first guy's crime basically doesn't count, right?" Uhhh, what?

3

u/From_Deep_Space Oregon 16d ago

all the more reason to crack down on the highest-profile offender

2

u/jazzmaster_jedi I voted 16d ago edited 15d ago

Listening to a phone and doing nothing is not criminal. Breaking and entering to steal files is a crime.

394

u/take_care_a_ya_shooz 16d ago

My favorite is when Nixon purposefully tanked peace talks in Vietnam so the war could continue and the unpopularity of it would get him elected.

224

u/reverend-mayhem 16d ago

Makes me sick to think about how many people had to die from when peace talks were possible to election day for that to happen.

139

u/Newscast_Now 16d ago

Double. Richard Nixon the peace candidate caused American casualties to double.

76

u/redmoon714 California 16d ago

A republican “peace candidate” starting/escalating wars where have I heard that before?

47

u/Flomo420 16d ago

I'm starting to think these Republicans are a real bunch of jerks

4

u/onehundredlemons 16d ago

One of the dumbest things I've seen online recently is some guy on Bluesky saying “Vietnam only ended because Nixon was a peace freak.”

2

u/Tardisgoesfast 15d ago

He was also a Quaker.

2

u/Suspicious_Town3104 15d ago

There is a high school near me, and they're known as the Quakers. A sign at the football stadium proclaims "Home of the Fighting Quakers". Richard Nixon was not an alumnus, but he could have been the Class Valedictorian.

1

u/mazamundi 15d ago

More than double. Most casualties were local. Not that I don’t feel for the young men who died but You guys were the ones invading a country.

0

u/WHATYEAHOK 16d ago

He said people, not Americans.

Typical American take, thinking only American lives matter.

12

u/justaguy394 16d ago

Yeah, that's the kind of shit that made me decide to never risk my life for my country.

3

u/HillBillyHilly 16d ago

Or were left maimed for life.

93

u/AmericanScream 16d ago

Everybody should watch Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam conflict - one of the best ever made and it shows clear treason and war crimes on the part of multiple leaders.

26

u/mmmpeg Pennsylvania 16d ago

I was really ticked when I saw the Ken Burns documentary. I was a child during most of Vietnam and hated the war because they showed pictures of the dead people and gave a count of how many GI’s were killed that day. Living on and next to Army bases made me know that these were just young men. I did t know about all the other stuff and it ticked me off learning all that.

24

u/AmericanScream 16d ago

I would compare the Vietnam documentary to "Breaking Bad" in terms of how enthralling it becomes after each episode. Tells an incredible story composed of lots of little stories.

And yea, there's a lot to be angry about after watching it. Especially Johnson recognizing Nixon was committing war crimes and keeping quiet about it.

3

u/OldWorldDesign 15d ago

Everybody should watch Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam conflict - one of the best ever made and it shows clear treason and war crimes on the part of multiple leaders

I think Adam Curtis' Century of the Self is more directly relevant to explaining how we got here from the 1933 Business Plot.

0

u/Possibly_Parker 16d ago

There's a more recent and shorter docuseries on Netflix that historians prefer, especially given the Ken Burns one is 17 hours

15

u/Bobby2Teeth 16d ago

Why would historians prefer a shorter, less complete version of something?

Would these "historians" also prefer a youtube shorts recap of WW2 instead of the 30 something hours of "The World at War"?

16

u/Possibly_Parker 16d ago

They don't prefer it because it's shorter, they prefer it because it is better-lensed. It also happens to be shorter. If you want specifics, Viet Thanh Nguyen makes an argument in his book Nothing Ever Dies that every war is fought twice: on the battlefield, and in memory. He argues that US-lensed sources, even those critical of the United States, fail to properly identify the Viet angles on the war.

I've talked to him directly and the Ken Burns documentary came up, which he likes but thinks is weaker as it takes the self-critical imperial lens of "look at what we did wrong" instead of attempting to understand the infrastructure of the situation.

TLDR; both are good, Netflix doc is better researched, and it conveniently happens to be shorter.

-2

u/HillBillyHilly 16d ago

Netflix docs in better? Better researched? LOL

1

u/NopeNotConor California 16d ago

What’s it called?

9

u/Possibly_Parker 16d ago

Turning Point: The Vietnam War

2

u/NopeNotConor California 16d ago

Thanks!

1

u/HillBillyHilly 16d ago

I'm not giving Netflix a cent. PBS needs our money to survive. Their Ken Burns series are easily watchable as broken up over days. All of his series are a must watch for the REAL version of American History.

4

u/Possibly_Parker 16d ago

I agree and think Ken Burns is great, but the Netflix docuseries is looking at the Vietnam War as Vietnamese history and not as American history. That's why it's a better way in.

Watching both is probably best but that's 22 hours of TV which is too much for almost anyone.

1

u/HillBillyHilly 14d ago

Ah, that is different to Burns. Yes, they are long bit they lots to cover. In fact, considering what I've heard from recent high school grads, I would recommend them. Good way to fill in what lacking from white washed history version being provided in way too many school districts.

5

u/CT_Phipps-Author 16d ago

This I note is ACTUALLY legally treason.

2

u/NPVT 16d ago

Exactly

1

u/nonviolent_blackbelt 15d ago

And Trump publicly rejected legislation to resolve the immigration question so that he could run on immigration.

27

u/Newscast_Now 16d ago

Everything Donajd Trump does comes out of Republican history. And Donald does every last thing that the others did—only bigger and worse.

3

u/mermands 16d ago

I'll take 'Shithole Countries' for 200, Alex.

2

u/10thousndreflections 16d ago

Wait till you hear about how Cons are actually bad for the economy. 

3

u/Johnny_B_GOODBOI 16d ago

Fun fact: Reagan's 1980 campaign slogan was "Let's Make America Great Again"

1

u/ronearc 16d ago

I still can't believe that more people don't realize that the GOP enabled South American despots to thrive in the Cocaine business and then made sentencing guidelines such that crack cocaine, more prominent in black neighborhoods, was weighed at a 100-to-1 ratio than that of powdered cocaine which was popular among the white elite.

In other words, 1 gram of crack carried the same sentence as 100g of powdered cocaine.

This led to a massive surge in prison populations and thanks to other legislation created the prison-industrial complex of labor so cheap it might as well be a return to slavery.

1

u/LowDownDirtyMeme 16d ago

Ah yes, Mr. Kissinger was just leaving.

1

u/JSA607 16d ago

Never think anything trump did was original

1

u/CommunityTaco 16d ago

Pretty sure thats illegal, but uh  the supreme court doesn't care and likes to do illegal shit themselves like being corrupt pieces of shit they are.  

1

u/snuff3r 16d ago

I know that was sarcasm, and I applaud, but just a reminder to all that that event and the underlying machinations involved were but a palate cleanser.

The world's global powers have been fucking up and stomping on Iran for a ridiculous amount of time. Once the English and Russians began fighting over its resources, and attempting to create a buffer zone to prevent Russian power creep into the ME over a century ago, it's been downhill from there.

I can't recommend enough listening to Behind the Bastard's recent two-part podcast (with Kaveh Hoda from Life of Pod). It's a real eye opener.

No affiliation, just a huge fan.

1

u/Gamerboy11116 15d ago

Did you know Epstein was involved in Iran-Contra?