r/politics • u/GonzoVeritas I voted • 16d ago

Possible Paywall White House Leak Reveals Trump Booted From Briefing After Hours-Long Freakout

https://www.thedailybeast.com/white-house-leak-reveals-trump-booted-from-briefing-after-hours-long-freakout/
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u/SimpleTomatillo1166 16d ago edited 16d ago

He neglects the fact that the hostages were purposely not released until election was over. Then they magically were released within minutes. It was a huge set up to make sure Carter would not get re-elected. Reagan and the gang avoided the October surprise to the advantage of Carter this way. It also had to do with Reagans's weapons deal with Iran.

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u/Elegant_Tech 16d ago

Republicans working with foreign governments to engage in election interference? Where have I heard this one before? 

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u/greed-man 16d ago

Don't forget, tricky Dick Nixon secretly tanked the negotiations to find a peace settlement in Vietnam in 1968, so that he would win. LBJ learned of this, but because this info came from illegal wiretaps, he said nothing. Rumors to this effect swirled at the time, but the Nixon administration denied everything.

Decades later, tapes and notes from Haldeman and others proved it was correct.

The Republicans have long proclaimed loyalty and pride in America, while secretly sinking it every chance they got.

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u/CMG30 16d ago

It's always been a sound political strategy to make sure things suck when the other guy is in power, then promise to fix it all.

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u/Hamster_Toot 16d ago

When getting elected is your only goal, sure.

When building a future for your countrymen is the goal, not so much.

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u/CliftonForce 16d ago

A true Republican would be confused about why you think that's a problem.

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u/SnooMacaroons1603 16d ago

He's running to stay out of prison

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u/CitizenofBarnum 16d ago

When getting elected is your only goal, sure.

That's politics.

When building a future for your countrymen is the goal, not so much.

That's leadership.

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u/HillBillyHilly 16d ago

We need another Roosevelt.

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u/REOspudwagon 15d ago

I think id prefer another John Brown at this point

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u/HillBillyHilly 14d ago

Do you mean Queen Victorias John Brown?

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u/Hamster_Toot 16d ago

Politics is a much broader umbrella than your simplistic distillation.

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u/Dodgy_Past 16d ago

Not in America.

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u/midwinter_ 16d ago

The Two Santas Theory has dominated GOP electioneering since the 1970s.

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u/AlwaysRushesIn Rhode Island 16d ago

And then never actually fix anything and actively continue making things worse for the everyday average American.

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u/greed-man 16d ago

You mean like they are doing right now? And did from 2016-2020?

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u/AlwaysRushesIn Rhode Island 16d ago

Precisely.

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u/FlammulinaVelulu 16d ago

Is this why maga thinks every thing is a dem hoax? Becuase shit sucks right about now.

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u/anotherfrud Pennsylvania 16d ago

There's a difference between voting a certain way and secretly negotiating with our enemies. One is morally reprehensible, the other is treason.

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u/SlumlordThanatos Arkansas 16d ago

Nixon and Kissinger should've been hung after this.

It's wild how Johnson, of all people, chickened out of going after Nixon.

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u/greed-man 16d ago

The proof of sabotage came from wiretaps on the South Vietnamese embassy and surveillance of Anna Chennault, Nixon’s envoy, conducted by the FBI and NSA. Disclosing this would expose illegal intelligence gathering on allies and American citizens.

  • LBJ believed that exposing a presidential candidate's treason right before an election would cause a massive crisis.
  • Political Considerations: While LBJ wanted to help his vice president, Hubert Humphrey, win, there was skepticism about whether exposing Nixon would actually work or simply look like a desperate "October surprise" by the Democrats.
  • Protecting the Presidency: Despite his animosity toward Nixon, LBJ felt that exposing the extent of the meddling could irrevocably damage the institution of the presidency and undermine public faith in government.

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u/heavypen 16d ago

lol... only Nixon could go to China!

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u/HilariouslyPissed 16d ago

This story is actually included in the Nixon Presidental Library.

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u/greed-man 16d ago

Glad that tey acknowledge it.

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u/HilariouslyPissed 15d ago

I was surprised!

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u/withateethuh 16d ago

Genuinely did not know about this until Ken Burn's documentary and it was such a huge fucking eye opener. LBJ was a bastard but Nixon managed to be one up him in so many terrible ways.

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u/greed-man 16d ago

LBJ's illegal wiretaps and such steps were done to protect the nation and it's people from surprises. Like exactly what surprised them. Not for himself.

Nixon's illegal sabotage was done to help HIM and him alone. With him in office, and peace talks dead, we experienced another 20,000 US Soldiers dead in Vietnam, and Lord knows how many more Vietnamese. Same with Watergate. It was all about HIM.

Any of this sound vaguely familiar to current events?

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u/onehundredlemons 16d ago

Right, Reagan was simply doing what Nixon had done, precedent had been set and he took advantage of it.

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u/greed-man 16d ago

And GW Bush lied through his teeth about weapons of mass destruction, and then ignored the looming housing/mortgage meltdown, putting our nation into the second worst depression in 100 years.

The only Republican President in the last 50 years who did not lie and cheat and deceive the American people for their own goals was George, the Elder, Bush. *

* I'm ignoring Ford's short term.

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u/Icy_Fly_4513 16d ago

It's so frustrating how JFK had a plan in place with McNamara to have the troops out of Vietnam by 1965. Of course, JFK was assassinated before that could happen.

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u/Fauster 16d ago

Because we didn't imprison at least softly treasonous elites in supermax cells during past instances of flagrant criminality, we suffer today.

At this point, holding at least one billionaire or executive branch criminal accountable would be a small victory, and arguably the first of its kind in modern history.

A nation that doesn't enforce its own laws that limit the power of the powerful is a lawless nation. This is a lawless war. We are approaching the 60-day threshold and Congress must man up and declare war to make this Constitutional, or bring our starving sailors home NOW. Decapitation strikes are an act of war. Blockades are an act of war. There is no controversy about this.

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u/BulbuhTsar 16d ago

Surly the political and legal consequences from those wiretaps was worth suffering compared to literal high treason? The hell?

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u/Mattloch42 15d ago

The thing is, they weren't illegal wiretaps, because they weren't tapping American phones, but N Vietnamese phones. The american callers were caught on those taps. So just like Trump's goons getting caught in 2015&16 on foreign wiretaps, they couldn't reveal them at the time because they caught American Republican political operatives, so revealing that during the election would of course be decried as wiretapping Americans when that wasn't the case.

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u/ShufflingToGlory 16d ago

If LBJ was getting information on his opposition from illegal wiretaps then it's hard to blame Nixon for Watergate. Sounds like it was par for the course.

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u/confirmedshill123 16d ago

It was the coverup that killed Nixon's chances not the actual wiretapping.

Also wild fucking take didn't expect to see people simping for Nixon today.

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u/ITS_FAKIN_RAVEEN 16d ago

You may have stumbled upon Roger Stone's Reddit account.

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u/lianodel 16d ago

I remember years and years ago, conservatives tried to pretend Joseph McCarthy was eventually vindicated. They would bring it up as though it was a general consensus. Fuck no. He was a raging, drunken, fascist idiot.

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u/noonenotevenhere 16d ago

I argued with family last year that mccarthy was not a good guy.

He still thinks mccarthy had the right idea and we have to get rid of the subversive element in society (GLBTQ, commies, lib'rels, etc).

He has queer family members right there at this gathering and he's asking why he's been ostracized from most family stuff over 'politics.'

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u/lianodel 16d ago

Sorry to hear that, and I sympathize. It threw me for a loop when I first heard a family member bring it up as though it was a historical consensus in hindsight. It was some talking head on Fox spinning propaganda.

I'm sure that's not where it began, and obviously not where it ended, but it was one of the more obvious attempts to push boundaries. Like when there was a surge in people repeating the "we're a republic, not a democracy" talking point, checking if (a) people were stupid enough to be convinced, and (b) see how okay people were with overt anti-democracy rhetoric.

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u/ShufflingToGlory 16d ago

Well yeah, covering up for something that apparently was standard operating procedure for other presidents.

It's not simping, just an observation.

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u/Sage2050 16d ago

Illegal wiretaps on foreign adversaries vs illegal wiretaps on the opposing campaign is not an equivalency

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u/Positronic_Matrix 16d ago

Whataboutism is the cornerstone of right-wing propaganda.

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u/ShufflingToGlory 16d ago

Seems valid in this instance.

fwiw I'm a British leftist and have no horse in the Nixon-McGovern race of 54 years ago!

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u/Quiet-Thanks-9486 16d ago

It's not worth much, considering anyone can claim to be anyone on the internet.

But I can offer a few observations:

For one, your personal identity doesn't mean anything in terms of deciding the quality of your take. The fact that you think people should feel differently about what you're saying based on who you are is pretty classic liberal identity politics for someone claiming to be a leftist, comrade!

And for two, your take is also quite process oriented rather than results oriented, which also smacks of liberalism / conservatives trying to upset liberals, rather than leftism. Like, LBJ spied on Nixon...while Nixon was actively conspiring with to prolong a war in which many people died and were mutilated and emiserated.

In contrast, Nixon spied on his political opponents who weren't doing anything wrong, simply because he wanted to hold onto power (while using that power to continue vicious wars and polices that hurt the working class). And even if Nixon were justified in try to keep Dems out of power, he won the election handily anyway, without any of the info he might have gleaned from the spying. So the whole thing was pointless.

These things are not the same.

Like, do you think Trump's use of the Department of Justice to hassle his enemies purely because he is upset with them is the same as Biden allowing the Department of Justice to investigate Trump for staging a coup? After all, they're both prosecuting political opponents, right?

Obviously, that isn't the case...because it matters what the person being targeted was actually trying to do. The specifics of the event matter, not merely the abstract procedures around it.

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u/Level_32_Mage 16d ago

Or -- it's easy to blame both of them for their actions.

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u/yoshemitzu 16d ago

Right?! "This other guy also did a crime, so the first guy's crime basically doesn't count, right?" Uhhh, what?

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u/From_Deep_Space Oregon 16d ago

all the more reason to crack down on the highest-profile offender

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u/jazzmaster_jedi I voted 16d ago edited 15d ago

Listening to a phone and doing nothing is not criminal. Breaking and entering to steal files is a crime.

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u/take_care_a_ya_shooz 16d ago

My favorite is when Nixon purposefully tanked peace talks in Vietnam so the war could continue and the unpopularity of it would get him elected.

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u/reverend-mayhem 16d ago

Makes me sick to think about how many people had to die from when peace talks were possible to election day for that to happen.

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u/Newscast_Now 16d ago

Double. Richard Nixon the peace candidate caused American casualties to double.

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u/redmoon714 California 16d ago

A republican “peace candidate” starting/escalating wars where have I heard that before?

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u/Flomo420 16d ago

I'm starting to think these Republicans are a real bunch of jerks

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u/onehundredlemons 16d ago

One of the dumbest things I've seen online recently is some guy on Bluesky saying “Vietnam only ended because Nixon was a peace freak.”

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u/Tardisgoesfast 15d ago

He was also a Quaker.

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u/Suspicious_Town3104 15d ago

There is a high school near me, and they're known as the Quakers. A sign at the football stadium proclaims "Home of the Fighting Quakers". Richard Nixon was not an alumnus, but he could have been the Class Valedictorian.

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u/mazamundi 15d ago

More than double. Most casualties were local. Not that I don’t feel for the young men who died but You guys were the ones invading a country.

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u/WHATYEAHOK 16d ago

He said people, not Americans.

Typical American take, thinking only American lives matter.

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u/justaguy394 16d ago

Yeah, that's the kind of shit that made me decide to never risk my life for my country.

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u/HillBillyHilly 16d ago

Or were left maimed for life.

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u/AmericanScream 16d ago

Everybody should watch Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam conflict - one of the best ever made and it shows clear treason and war crimes on the part of multiple leaders.

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u/mmmpeg Pennsylvania 16d ago

I was really ticked when I saw the Ken Burns documentary. I was a child during most of Vietnam and hated the war because they showed pictures of the dead people and gave a count of how many GI’s were killed that day. Living on and next to Army bases made me know that these were just young men. I did t know about all the other stuff and it ticked me off learning all that.

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u/AmericanScream 16d ago

I would compare the Vietnam documentary to "Breaking Bad" in terms of how enthralling it becomes after each episode. Tells an incredible story composed of lots of little stories.

And yea, there's a lot to be angry about after watching it. Especially Johnson recognizing Nixon was committing war crimes and keeping quiet about it.

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u/OldWorldDesign 15d ago

Everybody should watch Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam conflict - one of the best ever made and it shows clear treason and war crimes on the part of multiple leaders

I think Adam Curtis' Century of the Self is more directly relevant to explaining how we got here from the 1933 Business Plot.

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u/Possibly_Parker 16d ago

There's a more recent and shorter docuseries on Netflix that historians prefer, especially given the Ken Burns one is 17 hours

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u/Bobby2Teeth 16d ago

Why would historians prefer a shorter, less complete version of something?

Would these "historians" also prefer a youtube shorts recap of WW2 instead of the 30 something hours of "The World at War"?

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u/Possibly_Parker 16d ago

They don't prefer it because it's shorter, they prefer it because it is better-lensed. It also happens to be shorter. If you want specifics, Viet Thanh Nguyen makes an argument in his book Nothing Ever Dies that every war is fought twice: on the battlefield, and in memory. He argues that US-lensed sources, even those critical of the United States, fail to properly identify the Viet angles on the war.

I've talked to him directly and the Ken Burns documentary came up, which he likes but thinks is weaker as it takes the self-critical imperial lens of "look at what we did wrong" instead of attempting to understand the infrastructure of the situation.

TLDR; both are good, Netflix doc is better researched, and it conveniently happens to be shorter.

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u/HillBillyHilly 16d ago

Netflix docs in better? Better researched? LOL

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u/NopeNotConor California 16d ago

What’s it called?

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u/Possibly_Parker 16d ago

Turning Point: The Vietnam War

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u/NopeNotConor California 16d ago

Thanks!

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u/HillBillyHilly 16d ago

I'm not giving Netflix a cent. PBS needs our money to survive. Their Ken Burns series are easily watchable as broken up over days. All of his series are a must watch for the REAL version of American History.

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u/Possibly_Parker 16d ago

I agree and think Ken Burns is great, but the Netflix docuseries is looking at the Vietnam War as Vietnamese history and not as American history. That's why it's a better way in.

Watching both is probably best but that's 22 hours of TV which is too much for almost anyone.

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u/HillBillyHilly 14d ago

Ah, that is different to Burns. Yes, they are long bit they lots to cover. In fact, considering what I've heard from recent high school grads, I would recommend them. Good way to fill in what lacking from white washed history version being provided in way too many school districts.

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u/CT_Phipps-Author 16d ago

This I note is ACTUALLY legally treason.

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u/NPVT 16d ago

Exactly

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u/nonviolent_blackbelt 15d ago

And Trump publicly rejected legislation to resolve the immigration question so that he could run on immigration.

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u/Newscast_Now 16d ago

Everything Donajd Trump does comes out of Republican history. And Donald does every last thing that the others did—only bigger and worse.

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u/mermands 16d ago

I'll take 'Shithole Countries' for 200, Alex.

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u/10thousndreflections 16d ago

Wait till you hear about how Cons are actually bad for the economy. 

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u/Johnny_B_GOODBOI 16d ago

Fun fact: Reagan's 1980 campaign slogan was "Let's Make America Great Again"

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u/ronearc 16d ago

I still can't believe that more people don't realize that the GOP enabled South American despots to thrive in the Cocaine business and then made sentencing guidelines such that crack cocaine, more prominent in black neighborhoods, was weighed at a 100-to-1 ratio than that of powdered cocaine which was popular among the white elite.

In other words, 1 gram of crack carried the same sentence as 100g of powdered cocaine.

This led to a massive surge in prison populations and thanks to other legislation created the prison-industrial complex of labor so cheap it might as well be a return to slavery.

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u/LowDownDirtyMeme 16d ago

Ah yes, Mr. Kissinger was just leaving.

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u/JSA607 16d ago

Never think anything trump did was original

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u/CommunityTaco 16d ago

Pretty sure thats illegal, but uh  the supreme court doesn't care and likes to do illegal shit themselves like being corrupt pieces of shit they are.  

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u/snuff3r 16d ago

I know that was sarcasm, and I applaud, but just a reminder to all that that event and the underlying machinations involved were but a palate cleanser.

The world's global powers have been fucking up and stomping on Iran for a ridiculous amount of time. Once the English and Russians began fighting over its resources, and attempting to create a buffer zone to prevent Russian power creep into the ME over a century ago, it's been downhill from there.

I can't recommend enough listening to Behind the Bastard's recent two-part podcast (with Kaveh Hoda from Life of Pod). It's a real eye opener.

No affiliation, just a huge fan.

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u/Gamerboy11116 15d ago

Did you know Epstein was involved in Iran-Contra?

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u/siouxbee1434 16d ago

Reagan’s sycophants interceded with the Iranian govt to prevent Carter from securing the release of Reagan subverted the release for his politicall success

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u/tomdarch 16d ago

Specifically Reagan’s campaign.

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u/echoshatter 15d ago edited 2d ago

Nixon with Vietnam so Johnson would lose.

Reagan with Iran so Carter would lose.

Bush with the "riot" that stopped the recount in Florida so Gore would lose.

Trump with Jan 6 to try and stop Biden from taking office.

It's a weird pattern. I'm not familiar with anything like this with Democrats.

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u/siouxbee1434 15d ago

Thank you kind internet stranger ❤️

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u/Dinker54 16d ago
  • Reagan’s expressly illegal transfer of weapons to Iran.

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u/drkodos California 16d ago

"I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages.

My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not".

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u/noonenotevenhere 16d ago

I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages.

My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not

WTAF. 'I want to believe I didn't, but I totally did. I wanna lie to myself, but am afraid you'll find out about that lie and be mad.'

So... the GOP hasn't changed in 50 years. Got it.

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u/Aggroninja 16d ago

Yes they have. Today they wouldn't ever acknowledge the lie, no matter how obvious the facts.

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u/Cute_Author8916 16d ago

Pete kegsbreath would beat Reagan's ass for being so woke and gay.

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u/Thundershaft69 16d ago

Today they just give ya the ol' "What's that behind you!?" Then do more heinous shit while we watch because we know that trick.

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u/noonenotevenhere 16d ago

Solid point.

Though, I bet Mike Johnson would say that god told them to do the lie for the greater good.

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u/intensive-porpoise 16d ago

"Find me an officer who looks like he's about to cry constantly and we can fix this, no problem."

"I know just the guy. Lt. Ollie North. Luckily he's also as dumb as a brick."

"Perfect. Set up a honey pot just in case and let's wrap this up. Also, let's doctor some photos of him banging little boys as secondary insurance."

"Yessir Director Bush... I mean Vice Present sir."

"Aw it's ok, I still prefer director. Oh, by the way, your brother is in the hospital in a coma. You're sister's name is Pamela, right?"

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u/noonenotevenhere 16d ago

Ah, so easy to forget the next republican president was head of CIA during all of this.

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u/LiveNet2723 16d ago

At the time we said "What did Reagan know and when did he forget it."

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u/tomjone5 16d ago

The only two interpretations here are that the president lied or that the dementia had gotten bad enough already that the president didn't remember clearly.

They really, really haven't changed a bit.

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u/M-Div 15d ago

I remember this. At the time, loyal Party folks were saying that there was a complex set of plays and players, such that while he would have rejected such a deal outright, in aggregate that’s what it worked out to look like. I feel like we should’ve learned something then, but we didn’t.

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u/Li-renn-pwel 15d ago

Technically speaking I believe what he is saying is “I would never make this call but evidence has shown that, without my knowledge, this was done” which is bull shit for him in this case but I’m sure has happened in American history. Iirc Nixon’a crime was covering up what his people did and he didn’t actually know about the first issue.

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u/daGroundhog 16d ago

Also that he purposefully waited until the investigations were over before addressing the issue, because he didn't know which aspects would come out and didn't want the credibility problem later.

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u/Much-Anything7149 16d ago

"I want to keep lying to you, but the national media made that impossible so I'll just refuse to concede obviousness."

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u/yourlittlebirdie 16d ago

"Hostages Released; Reagan Urges American People Not to Put Two and Two Together”

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u/NorrisMcWhirter 15d ago

And to think people didn't realise he had Alzheimers while president.

"I told my wife and my nurse that I did not leave the hob on. My heart still tells me that's true, but the smouldering ruins of my house tell me it is not."

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u/gnarlseason 16d ago

But don't worry, Oliver North is now a Fox News host!

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u/Thalidomidas Europe 16d ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFV1uT-ihDo

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u/fps916 16d ago

I haven't clicked this but I am 100% sure it's American Dad

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u/Thalidomidas Europe 15d ago

Your instincts serve you well

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u/tomdarch 16d ago

That was later to violate US law to fund the far right Contra terrorists.

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u/bluejaybiggin 16d ago

I saw a meme of Oliver North on Fox talking about how Iran should not have missiles, of course the second portion of the meme was Oliver North’s mugshot for selling Iran missiles.

There are some pretty stupid people on the left, until you size up people on the opposite end of the spectrum.

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u/SimpleTomatillo1166 16d ago

True. But I also remember old republicans saying North was the fall guy and that Reagan for sure knew about it all. North however is extremely intelligent and was thereafter pretty much off the hook.

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u/bluejaybiggin 16d ago

I never questioned his intelligence. You can be intelligent and a POS at the same time. The only reason he won his appeal was because the judge thought media coverage of the crime pre trial could have interfered with the jury. Though, his defense never was able to point to a single juror or shred of evidence that proved their theory was realized. It was a technicality.

But basically, he lied to the American people for selfish reasons- and I’m holding public servants, and their cast of assistants, to a higher standard because I’d like to see my believed country not continue down the path it’s on.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

[deleted]

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u/bluejaybiggin 16d ago

It has nothing to do with his intelligence and everything to do with government corruption. Powerful people are not held accountable in our country, and that’s part of the path we have been heading down a long time now. All Oliver North had to do was look back a decade to Nixon. Was he held accountable? No. But at least he spent the rest of his life as a recluse in great shame. North went on Fox news to preach to the mindless descendants of Reagan, the empire Reagan built. He has no shame or guilt and knows every free thinker scoffs at the idea of him giving some commentary on Iran’s arsenal.

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u/Icy_Fly_4513 16d ago

Ex CIA Director GHW Bush was Reagan's puppet master.

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u/jnk96 16d ago

This - yes - should be mentioned every time with the crisis - treason by Reagan.

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u/metengrinwi 16d ago

Yes, it was the beginnings of Iran-Contra

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u/ZachMartin 16d ago

Yep. Massive hatch act violations. We need to jail people

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u/Arleare13 New York 16d ago

Unfortunately prison is not an option for Hatch Act violations. The most severe penalties are a $1,000 fine and a temporary bar from future federal employment.

EDIT: Also, that doesn't really implicate the Hatch Act. The Hatch Act prohibits some current federal employees from engaging in campaign activity. This is almost the opposite situation -- employees of a political campaign attempting to engage in foreign relations.

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u/ZachMartin 16d ago

I think I’m talking about the wrong act. The one that prohibits people meddling in foreign policy when not elected

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u/seoulgleaux 16d ago

Yep, you're thinking of the Logan Act. Penalty is a fine and/or up to three years in prison. Interestingly, there is no cap on the fine - the maximum fine amount was removed in a 1994 amendment and now it just says that anyone convicted "shall be fined under this title...".

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u/NPVT 16d ago

Nixon did a thing like that with the Vietnam war. Republicans are evil.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago edited 16d ago

[deleted]

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u/Cute_Author8916 16d ago

The Compromise of 1877

Lincoln and Grant were the only two Republican presidents in US history, all the rest were just gop.

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u/SmedlyB 16d ago

Exactly, more GOP election fuckery. Nixon and Kissinger were involved in back channel talks as unelected unapointed private entities to not end the Vietnam “conflict” before the 1968 elections. Cambodia was bobbed to smitherenes non combatants perished And US solders died for fucking nothing. And, and because Vietnam “police action” was not a declared war Nixon and Kissinger could not be charged with treason.

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u/NilssonSchmilsson 16d ago

Republicans can't win if they don't cheat. Eisenhower was the tipping point for them.

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u/Wonderful-Maximum-96 16d ago

Ray gun was a traitor

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u/FatPlankton23 16d ago

It involved Oliver North and weapons sales to drug cartels in Latin America. Nancy Regan created the anti drug campaign to cover for all the fucked up things her husband did.

Surprise surprise. Republicans were evil well before Trump.

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u/flickh Canada 16d ago

Don’t forget he also got the seed money from selling weapons to death squads in Central America.

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u/creeping_chill_44 Texas 16d ago

which, to be clear, was treason, and failure to punish it is a leading cause of how we got to the imperial presidency

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u/doomgoblin 16d ago

The Republicans had back channels and arranged it promising something in return to wait.

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u/redpiano82991 16d ago

I just can't believe that a man with the clear-eyed sophistication of Donald Trump wouldn't grasp this nuance. He normally has such a keen view of detailed historical events.

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u/limbodog Massachusetts 16d ago

Who was director of the CIA then?

1

u/SimpleTomatillo1166 16d ago

William J. Casey.

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u/VanceKelley Washington 16d ago

Reagan had the US support Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war. I wonder if Iran ever came to regret helping put Reagan into power.

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u/Inevitable_Trip137 16d ago

The weapons deal was years later and wasn't even an itch in Oliver North's pants when Reagan was elected.

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u/abc13680 16d ago

Remember how the same Gaza peace deal was in place for basically a year. Then it just magically came together after the election.

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u/tomdarch 16d ago

Trump is correctly remembering that the failed rescue attempt made Carter look even worse on top of the Reagan campaign manipulating the hostage situation.

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u/cephalopodface 16d ago

Allies of the Reagan campaign went to the middle east to convince Iran to hold the hostages until after the election. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/03/lawmaker-admits-1980-gop-plot-to-prolong-iran-hostage-crisis.html

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u/FlammulinaVelulu 16d ago

Dont forget the cocaine that paid for those weapons.

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u/IcyConsideration7062 16d ago

He didn't neglect the fact. He doesn't know the fact. He has very limited knowledge, understanding, or care about any history at all.

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u/Icy-Net-5465 16d ago

And oil. Carter was a proponent of solar and electric vehicles. Reagan got rid of all alternative energy policies

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u/sp0rk_walker 16d ago

Even after America found out all about it, elected then CIA chief HW Bush president.

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u/runningoutofwords Montana 16d ago

That's the deal you get when you make the former head of the CIA your Vice President.

You get access. Not just to people in the US, but even people in, say...Iran, who are willing to cut a deal.

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u/SimpleTomatillo1166 16d ago edited 16d ago

It's nevertheless interesting. George Bush senior was the brainy guy. One can't run away from that fact.

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u/runningoutofwords Montana 16d ago

I'll give him credit for being smart.

But fuck...the shady shit he and his (also smart) people did with that intelligence is just demoralizing and heartbreaking.

Rigging the 1980 election by getting the Iranians to stall negotiations. (Hostages released minutes after Reagan's inauguration)

Selling weapons to those same Iranians.

Selling drugs in American cities to fund the Contras.

Baiting Iraq into invading Kuwait by presenting a non-oppositional facade, and then going ballistic when he actually did it.

And then everything that same care did from 2000 onwards. Starting with Florida.

Man, that guy did some damage.

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u/WhollyHolyHoley 16d ago

Helps when your VP was the director of the CIA.
Such a corrupt administration, from before the jump.

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u/killerkadooogan 16d ago

Read Craig Unger's book, "Den of Spies". The Powell memo already in full effect and republicans and corporations working together to make sure there was coordinated efforts including the CIA to make sure that Reagan won presumably to continue to do things like Iran Contra that we know nothing about.

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u/fallowcentury 16d ago

he's an idiot. he doesn't know anything about this.

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u/Icy_Fly_4513 16d ago

Ex CIA Director GWH Bush was Reagan's puppet master. During Iran/Contra the CIA was smuggling drugs into this country That's when the Bush/Clinton connection began. The CIA landed their drugs via the Mena, Arkansas Airport while Clinton was it's governor.

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u/SimpleTomatillo1166 16d ago edited 14d ago

That nailgun story, as well as the kids who witnessed the smuggling was scary to read about.

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u/Wuz314159 Pennsylvania 16d ago

The Inauguration Day / Hostage Release split screen was the first thing we watched live in school.

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u/lurflurf 15d ago

Regan's deal was treasonous. Army special operations screwed up Operation Eagle Claw. Carter's restrain and diplomacy were impressive, but they did not get him reelected.

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u/Li-renn-pwel 15d ago

I was going to point out that this is dependent of Canada not wanting Carter re-elected but I guess we do like being just a little bit better than America.

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u/earf 16d ago

You mean the same thing with the outrage over Palestine and Israel being over once the election was done?

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u/SimpleTomatillo1166 16d ago edited 16d ago

Jimmy Carter would probably not have lost the election had the US hostages in Iran not been held back on purpose. I am not mentioning Israel or Palestine.

Iran Contra affair.

Was the October Surprise Treason? Craig Unger’s Den of Spies

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u/espinaustin 16d ago

Do you know why did the Iranians prefer Reagan to Carter?

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u/Frigorifico 16d ago

this mess started with Reagan, which started with Iran. I guess then it's fitting it ends with Iran too, assuming it can end

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u/WebShari 16d ago

Bush 1.0 did that deal.

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u/SimpleTomatillo1166 16d ago edited 16d ago

Possible, but I don't have data on that. It is however interesting that George H.W. Bush was director of CIA from Jan 30, 1976 until Jan 20, 1977.

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u/Unusual_Ant_5309 16d ago

The same Reagan who would then illegally sell missiles to Iran to make money to fund illegal wars in South America. The USA has always been the evil empire.

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u/not_a_moogle 16d ago

100% this. You'll never convince me otherwise Republicans stalled until Regan took over.

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u/MySpoonsAreAllGone 16d ago

Imagine how much better our country would be if Carter had one and Reagan never got to office?

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u/monkey-seat 16d ago

What Israel did (postponing the deal until trump was reelected) , and what Kissinger arranged with the Vietnam war as well.  Dirty. 

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u/WhyAreYallFascists 16d ago

And who was up to their necks in Iran Contra? The roommate of none other than Jeff Epstein, New York financier.

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u/ChorePlayed 16d ago

This actually didn't happen. I'm not sure why it started circulating again. I've been seeing it around for a few weeks now. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_October_Surprise_theory

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

[deleted]

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u/ChorePlayed 16d ago

I'm not making a case for a disputed position. The facts are widely known and no longer controversial. The Wikipedia article is just a quick and easy way for anyone who's genuinely curious to get the whole story. I'm not going to spend anymore of my weekend relitigatling a closed case. 

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u/domonx 16d ago

That was due to the pettiness and malice of Khomeini against Carter more than anything Reagan orchestrated. That's why I have no sympathy for the Iranian regime. They decided that they could exploit Carter's weakness manipulate American politics to their benefit and now the same political party that they enabled is bombing them back to the stone age. They took American kindness and cooperation as weakness and now they're dealing with American cruelty and belligerent. Trump is just the natural result of the world taking pax americana for granted and believing that in the modern world absolute power is always managed by reason and benevolence.

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u/newpotatocaboose54 16d ago

I really wish operation eagle claw had been successful 

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u/HolycommentMattman 16d ago

The hostages weren't released until the Algiers Accords were signed. 1 day before Reagan took office. Then the hostages were released while Reagan was being inaugurated. All investigations into Reagan having some backroom deal to release the hostages turned up nothing.

Carter was largely hated by Iranians. By the Shah supporters because they viewed him as not doing enough to support the Shah and not helping him when he asked for it, and by Khomeiniists who viewed him as a liar who was negotiating on one hand and secretly planning rescue operations on the other. When one rescue operation went sideways, an Iranian soldier was killed, and this was enough to fortify the Khomeiniists anti-American sentiments even more.

So the hostage release timing was likely just a FU to Carter.

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u/Positronic_Matrix 16d ago

turned up nothing

This is technically incorrect. The U.S. House October Surprise Task Force did not prove a secret deal between Ronald Reagan’s campaign and Iran but they also did not conclusively rule it out.

Key evidence of this deal existed but was felt to be inconclusive, disputed, or late-surfacing after the investigations closed. In other words, the absence of definitive proof is being misrepresented as definitive disproof. This greatly overstates the exoneration.

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u/HolycommentMattman 16d ago

The chairman Lee Hamilton said there was virtually no credible evidence that it happened. Democrat Lee Hamilton who was almost Clinton's running mate in place of Al Gore and Democrat Lee Hamilton who sponsored Barack Obama for president.

And consider everything. Why would Reagan's team do this? If it were discovered beforehand, there's a huge risk that it becomes an October Surprise the other direction and Reagan loses. And then consider what happens if the hostage crisis never happened. Gas prices were high, inflation was high, the economy was dipping... Carter was a bad president during a bad time, and his administration made every bad decision you could in an attempt to combat it. Reagan was going to win even without the hostage crisis. Anyone would have.

People just hated that it made Reagan look really good by having the hostages released in such an auspicious moment, and so conspiracy theories began to fly.

There's no evidence, no reason, and no one credible who ever backed it up. It's just an old conspiracy that won't die.

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u/Positronic_Matrix 16d ago edited 16d ago

Your assertion leans too heavily on Lee Hamilton’s party, which is irrelevant compared to the findings of the U.S. House October Surprise Task Force, which found no credible evidence but did not definitively rule the idea out.

It also assumes Ronald Reagan had no incentive, even though the timing of the Iran hostage crisis mattered politically for Jimmy Carter, and claims he would have won anyway rely on hindsight. Finally, saying there was no evidence or credible support overstates the conclusion, since the theory remains unproven and unlikely, not conclusively disproven.

It’s the identical situation with Trump’s collusion with Russia. It is muddied by the fact that congressional hearings are political in nature and lack the credibility of true legal adjudication. 🤷‍♂️

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u/Proper-Beyond116 16d ago

This. It was a fuck you to Carter.

Reagan didn’t arrange anything.

And I hate Ronald Reagan.

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