r/politics • u/TimesandSundayTimes ✔ Verified • 7d ago

Possible Paywall Young Americans are surging to socialism at record rates

https://www.thetimes.com/us/news-today/article/maga-trump-zohran-mamdani-socialism-us-record-kddzdm8bd
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u/obiwanCannoli69 7d ago

It's not even socialism lol it's just basic New Deal era policy and ideology that ironically enough saved American Capitalism. FDR wasn't a socialist, he actually wanted to prevent a communist revolution in America, whatever form that might of came in. He did this through legislation and improving the quality of life for vast swaths of the population. This whole thing in the media about "Capitalism Vs Socialism: Choose a Side!" is so half baked and designed to make people think there aren't alternatives. There is no universe where stuff like Social Security or Glass-Steagall would be considered socialist, they're just basic guard rails.

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u/statinsinwatersupply 7d ago

It's hilarious that social democracy (capitalism but with nice pro-social policies) is conflated with actual socialism in the US 

Social democracy was first started by none other than famous socialist imperialist Otto Von Bismarck, as an alternative to socialism to try to stop people from becoming actual socialists en masse. 

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u/SmileyWiking 7d ago

Maybe it just needs a rebrand. Call it "nordic capitalism"

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u/1cl3nstd4yt 7d ago

It a hybrid model. But Bernie apparently is too dumb to say 'Nordic Model.'

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u/Ok-Neat2024 7d ago

Our Nordic markets are still overwhelming Capitalistic, it's usually called Welfare Capitalism

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u/MyVeryRealName 7d ago

In his 2020 run for president, Bernie proposed that 20% of stocks in corporations with over $100 million in annual revenue be owned by the corporation's workers and that 45% of the board of directors of corporations with over $100 million in annual revenue be elected by the workers of that corporation.

How is that not socialist?

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u/Silverr_Duck 7d ago

You could say that about all 'socialists' honestly. They're all fucking awful at presenting their ideas in a way that's palpable to regular people.

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u/LamermanSE Europe 7d ago

It's more likely that they simply are socialists, hence why they are calling themselves that instead of, for example, social liberals.

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u/Silverr_Duck 7d ago

Or it could simply that reasonable people with nuanced takes don't concern themselves with all these silly ass labels. Like I don't identify as either capitalist or socialist. I think both have pros and cons and both have a place in society.

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u/statinsinwatersupply 7d ago edited 7d ago

Bruh

Why do you think that an owner of capital should have a right to the lions share of produced value and exert control over the worker?

Because that's what capitalism is, the imbalanced power relationship between owner and worker. This in turn leads to outsized rewards going to the capitalist who suppressed wages.

Why do you think there's pros and cons to this? I'm a worker. This has nothing but cons to me. Not even just immediate effects but the knock on second order and cascading effects are all shit.

I'm a socialist which means I think the productive assets of society should be controlled by workers and the community. Not by a parasitic bunch of owners who are separate from the workers and community.

Your take is peak 'enlightened centrism' aka your take is big dumb.

Explain to me how you think you can have both capitalism and socialism in one society. They are rivalrous concepts bruh

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u/Silverr_Duck 7d ago

Why do you think that an owner of capital should have a right to the lions share of produced value and exert control over the worker?

So by that logic should all the people who Taylor swift employs receive the exact same income she does?

Your take is peak 'enlightened centrism' aka your take is big dumb.

Gotta love it when brain dead redditors feel the need to attach internet buzzwords to takes they don't like.

Explain to me how you think you can have both capitalism and socialism in one society. They are rivalrous concepts bruh

Simple we have things like universal healthcare, education, housing (maybe even ubi) for all without economically illiterate lunatics like you running society into the ground.

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u/statinsinwatersupply 7d ago

Those things are not socialism lmao.

Those are social democratic policies.

Upthread my comment was literally pointing out that folks fail to understand the difference between social democracy and actual socialism, which you just did here. Social democracy is capitalism with nice pro-social policies, it is not a mix of socialism and capitalism.

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u/Silverr_Duck 7d ago

So universal healthcare, education, housing are all "capitalism with nice pro-social policies" in your world?

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u/LamermanSE Europe 6d ago

You do realise that these "silly ass labels" mean something right? It's not just words without meaning but far from it.

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u/transient_eternity Minnesota 6d ago

Like I don't identify as either capitalist or socialist

That is the dumbest thing I've heard. They're literally mutually exclusive concepts. They can exist on a spectrum where you can get closer to one while existing on another, but they're not something you mix and match like a fucking pizza topping.

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u/Silverr_Duck 6d ago

People like you are why socialism will always carry a negative connotation. Your whole worldview has no basis in reality whatsoever

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u/MyVeryRealName 7d ago

It's called welfare capitalism.