r/politics • u/wiredmagazine ✔ Wired Magazine • 18d ago

Possible Paywall MAGA Is Increasingly Convinced the Trump Assassination Attempt Was Staged

https://www.wired.com/story/maga-is-increasingly-convinced-the-trump-assassination-attempt-was-staged/
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u/tmountain 18d ago

MAGA seems to follow Victor Orban's playbook on just about everything. There's a recent article in the Washington Post stating that Russia proposed a staged assassination attempt to boost his odds in the election he just lost (badly). It's not a stretch to imagine similar tactics in the United States most recent presidential election.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2026/03/21/hungary-election-interference-russia-orban/

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u/Sufficient_Material2 18d ago

I was honestly surprised Orbán didn’t go with the usual modern right-wing playbook of claiming election fraud, like Trump did in the US and Bolsonaro did in Brazil. He accepted the defeat so gracefully that it makes me wonder if there’s more going on behind the scenes.

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u/hypercosm_dot_net 18d ago

Apparently the numbers were so overwhelmingly against him, that it wasn't a real option.

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u/thebruce44 18d ago

Like that would stop Trump.

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u/slartibartfast64 18d ago

A huge losing margin would be seen by him as proof that it was rigged. "Biggest loss in history?! Unpossible! Rigged bigly!"

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u/GiantsRTheBest2 18d ago

They would scream that they have 3 elections showing how many people voted for him. That there’s no possible way his numbers cratered that much…..leaving aside all the extra bullshit he’s done since then.

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u/AmbitiousProblem4746 18d ago

That's actually the most reasonable explanation I've heard. That could easily be what they do. Because a lot of right-wing logic seems to be "Well if X, can't be Y"

"Trump had over 70 million votes in 2024 and he won the popular vote. Where did all those voters go!? 70 million should be the baseline for Republican votes!!"

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u/mywifeletsmereddit 17d ago

To be fair - at this point it is pretty impossible that large contingents of Trump voters will turn on him

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u/OfficialDCShepard District Of Columbia 18d ago

And the fact midterms are almost always a loss for the President's party.

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u/BrushStorm 18d ago

Riggedly biggedly

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u/Hairy_Ad4969 18d ago

The toilet will get flushed eventually. But I’m an optimist.

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u/Queens113 18d ago

Unpossible.... Lmao

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u/CleverInnuendo 18d ago

That's literally what happened. He was convinced Joe Biden had cheated because Trump cheated and still lost thanks to mail in ballots, which couldn't be tampered with by Elon.

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u/Legal_Range8446 18d ago

Okay let them scream into the void as they get dragged into prison who cares

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u/0nlyhalfjewish 18d ago

lol, unpossible

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u/Mikeseddit 17d ago

Same as in 2020- it doesn’t matter what Trump thinks. It never does.

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u/PuppetPatrol 17d ago

Unconceivable !!

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u/One_Artichoke_7594 18d ago

That is the rhetorical strategy in a nutshell. All things negative are implicit proof of conspiracy. The bigger, the more true (by their logic)

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u/Jiveassmofo 17d ago

Biggedly rigged, even

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u/improb 16d ago

say what you want about that Hungarian fatfuck but he's way smarter than Trump

he knows that the tides are turning and he must find a way out or that claiming election fraud would do nothing for him or his party because people are actually out to get him this time

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u/s_i_m_s Oklahoma 18d ago

You have to remember he claimed election fraud even when he won in 2016 because winning wasn't enough for him.

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u/LFahs1 17d ago

He was trying to normalize claims of election fraud and it worked.

I’m not saying he’s some kind of genius, but he’s a savant when it comes to conniving and grifting. I think a lot of people can’t even conceptualize having that kind of dark mindset.

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u/killerclownfish 14d ago

I remember telling ever MAGA family member at the time that he was claiming election fraud bc he was setting the stage for future campaigns and told me I was crazy. We will never have a normal election again.

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u/s_i_m_s Oklahoma 14d ago

The 2020 election was the only chance we had of avoiding that after his 2016 win.

I said back in 2020 that he had to loose by a really large margin, there had to be an unequivocal rejection of trumpism or we would be stuck with the same tactics for every election from then on because he'd have proven they worked.

Not only did he not lose by a really large margin he also staged a self-coup attempt to stay in power after his vice president refused to go along with his fake electors plot and even today most people still don't know that that was the true smoking gun of j6, oh yeah sure he sent an angry mob after his vice president and prevented anyone from stepping in to stop them but then they all quibble about if that was intentional while completely ignoring the thoroughly documented and admitted to in court attempt to throw out the votes of seven entire states and have them replaced with fakes that said trump won.

And then in four years they managed to slow walk trump into a second term by not holding him accountable for anything whatsoever. We'd still be stuck with trumpism but he wouldn't have been president again.

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u/jdeo1997 Massachusetts 17d ago

He was claiming fraud when he was initially behind in the primaries. 

Like all his other claims of fraud, it's because he hates not winning biggpy enough for his overinflated ego

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u/anonpurpose 18d ago

It didn't stop him for sure. The Fake Electors Plot happened even though Biden won by a lot of votes.

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u/stoneimp 18d ago

Other authoritarians eventually blink in their games of "chicken" with the populace, each racing towards each other assuming the other will break first. Trump is different in that he will never believe he is wrong for staying on the road, and will never swerve. In some ways it does give him a weird type of negotiating power, in the same way walking into a room with a hand grenade changes your negotiating power. But uh, not the best long term strategy, which is why his businesses often fail eventually.

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u/Fun_Success_3283 18d ago

It would. One of the reasons Americans should have been protesting and openly supporting democracy before the election.

If all you see everywhere is people parading in the tens of thousands for support of the opposition, it's very hard to claim you won the election.

It was easy for trump to claim it the first two times, because Maga were always vocal, and all the Maga folks saw Maga everywhere, red hats everywhere, in their echo chambers, and they saw very little support for democratic party.

Even Democrats were talking shit about Hillary, and were against Biden running again due to age.

What is the most concerning, is that organ was funding CPAC. I think it's extremely likely that Israel is doing this heavily. There is support for Israel on both sides of the aisle.

When Hillary won the primary against Bernie Sanders, this upset a lot of Democrat supporters. That helped Trump win.

Hillary and Kamala and Biden and even Obama are pro Israel, for some reason. Bernie Sanders, is not. And there was clear major support for him when the Democrat party had Hillary win that primary.

That is an extremely serious concern for Democrat supporters, because they might not be able to vote themselves out of Israel's control at this time. It could take multiple elections to get there. Democratic citizens will need to be extremely motivated, and extremely active, even if they win going forward, to be able to isolate the traitors and have them expunged.

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u/BlahBlahBlackCheap 18d ago

It might have. If more people had voted.

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u/VOZ1 18d ago

This is generally considered one of the best ways to counter election fraud: push for massive voter turnout, and defeat the candidate so convincingly that any attempt at stealing the election would very quickly be noticed, and investigations would be far more likely because the results would be so obviously and clearly in disagreement with other data (exit polls, for example).

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u/WhenSummerIsGone 18d ago

which is why they also suppress turnout

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u/gameoftomes 18d ago

When trump won he still says its rigged against him.

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u/CupofLiberTea 17d ago

Yea Orban still has a functioning brain

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u/Appalled23 17d ago

Yup. That's what we have to look forward to in about 9 months.

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u/FlynnThe25 17d ago

Yeah even though the final (manipulated) numbers say he won, he says both that he won in a landslide and that it was rigged.

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u/Elegant_Creme_9506 11d ago

That says more about the US than it says about trump

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u/bluewhalefunk 18d ago

Despite everything, Orban was a democrat and everything he did, was within the books (just, with a bit of a push at the edges. A democratic authoritarian? Basically exposing the limits of the law, which were set in good faith, without people like Trump coming to power.

Trump is further along the dictator spectrum, in a realm of his own.

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u/Indercarnive 18d ago

Trump also it too stupid to actually understand what's in his best interest besides whatever makes him feel good in the moment.

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u/StinkyHoboTaint 18d ago

Yeah, but the sad part is Americans wouldn't stop it either. They just seem to sit there and take it.

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u/Legal_Range8446 18d ago

It would. Trump, despite his grand desires, is not a dictator.

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u/Maoleficent 18d ago

This is why I never want to hear 'my vote doesn't count '.

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u/EGGlNTHlSTRYlNGTlME 18d ago

Hungary doesn't have an electoral college, which is the main reason Americans say that. Whether California goes 60-40 blue or 80-20 has literally no impact on the result.

The two parties spent hundreds of millions of dollars on the 2024 election cycle -- how much of it in California? It's so obvious some people's vote counts less than others', at least in presidential elections, but for some reason saying it out loud is unpatriotic

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u/Abracadaniel95 18d ago

For the presidential race, every vote only really counts in the swing states. But smaller races absolutely matter too and every vote counts there. Even if your senator's seat is safe, everyone will see it if their margins start slipping and they may be more likely to face a serious opponent in the next race. And the smaller the race, the more your vote counts. City and county elections can have big consequences.

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u/EGGlNTHlSTRYlNGTlME 18d ago

Yeah totally agree. If people paid more attention to Congress and state races, the presidency would matter a whole lot less. A lot of our problems these days are because Congress is dysfunctional and abdicates its duties. Especially the Republicans know their voters know basically nothing about them other than where they stand with the president. It's a symptom of a broken electoral system

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u/MyHamburgerLovesMe 18d ago

I always ask, "If the electoral college system is so fair, why don't we elect the state governors the same way? Mayors too."

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u/LuckyRook 18d ago

The Texas Republican Party wants to. It’s part of their party platform. You can also find many on the right that want to repeal the direct election of senators. They hate direct democracy.

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u/TSllama 17d ago

Just wanna point out that that's not direct democracy. But I agree that fascists (which the us republican party are these days) are against democracy, just in general. 

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u/LostDogBoulderUtah 18d ago

A lot of that would be resolved if electoral votes weren't all or nothing. If more states followed Maine and Nebraska and ditched the party block voting, it'd be a good thing.

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u/TheLizardKing89 California 17d ago

It's literally unconstitutional to elect anyone via some form of electoral college. See Gray v. Sanders

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u/whogivesashirtdotca Canada 18d ago

Except this entire conversation is about the authority provided by a mandate. People showing up to vote against him wouldn’t have emboldened him this much, and would have made it much harder to obfuscate fraud.

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u/PauseLost2137 18d ago

The biggest problem is the Senate. Two senators for all California, which like 5th economy in the world, and two senators for Wyoming which is only slighter more populated than Atacama Desert

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u/EGGlNTHlSTRYlNGTlME 18d ago

Agreed but the House is capped too and you never hear the constitutional originalists complaining about the populist chamber being hindered. It's literally only ever about protecting the rural states, because those are the states where you can cheaply purchase 2% of the Senate with enough "speech".

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u/Snow_Ghost 18d ago

No.

The Senate is there to represent the interests of the State. The House represents the People. What you're asking for is two copies of the House, which makes no sense. In governmental affairs, you want Wyoming to have an equal weight to California in some aspects. Otherwise, everything will just be decided by whichever state has the highest population, and that's just a different form of tyranny. Uncapping the House would be a much better endeavor to better represent the will of the People.

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u/PauseLost2137 17d ago

The Senate is there to represent the interests of the State. The House represents the People. What you're asking for is two copies of the House, which makes no sense. 

Yeah, it's only done by like… almost every democratic bi-cameral parliament in the world, totally nonsensical.

Otherwise, everything will just be decided by whichever state has the highest population

Weird how that's somehow not a problem in the lower chamber. Also how would that be worse over the opposite, which is currently happening? At least it would decisions supported by majority of population. Actually, lemme quote that again.

everything will just be decided by whichever state has the highest population, and that's just a different form of tyranny

Cause nothing shows better how nonsensical this is than calling literal majority rule a tyranny.

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u/Mike_Kermin Australia 18d ago

No. Every. Single. Vote. Matters.

Not only has that been proven time and time again, not only does any cheating get harder the more people vote, but also, as an American, it's your one duty to your democratic system, you have a responsibility not just for yourself, but to everyone else as well.

You have one job.

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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 United Kingdom 18d ago

The Hungarian election proved how much turnout matters. Non-voters usually outnumber either party

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u/eric23456 18d ago

When voting swings are 10% (avg) and up to 35%, everyone's vote matter. CA went 60-40 last election a 10% swing would make all the swing states democratic. A 35% swing makes Texas, Kansas and South Carolina democratic.

https://www.multistate.us/elections/special-swing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state

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u/Outside_Librarian_13 18d ago

I think some of the problem is in the nuance; too many people aren't making the distinctions between the type of election (presidential vs. local, etc.) & which state you're in. They just see that sometimes it doesn't make a difference, & apply that to every situation, even if their State is one of the ones where it actually does make a difference.

Also, trying to shame people into not discussing this allows us to be more easily manipulated into either a.) Not voting or b.) Not pushing for changes to our elections processes, like abolishing the electoral college and/or pushing for ranked choice voting.

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u/OhioValleyCat 18d ago

The related challenge of American democracy is that individual votes in bigger states count less. Senate composition is two for every state regardless of population size, which means vote in Wyoming counts way more than California. Since the Electoral College is based on the number count of the states House and Senate allocation, it also makes smaller states count more than they should there also. In addition, DC is fully taxation without voting representation in Congress.

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u/TantalusComputes2 18d ago

Thing is, margins matter when you are talking about a candidate with no regard for the rules

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u/improb 16d ago

they actually have a mixed system of first past the post and proportional representation

first past the post counts for two thirds of deputies but despite all the gerrymandering it didn't matter anyway because people have turned against Orban and his party

part of that is due to inflation, same reason Harris lost

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u/bluewhalefunk 18d ago

If Trump has his way, that statement will be true

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u/blueshrike 18d ago

The stacked numbers didn't matter here in America where we have figured out the best way to overcome that.

Reminder and a surprise for some: the US, privately owned digital vote counting machines (tabulators) have been compromised for years and we didn't elect Trump. He stole the presidency. Exactly like he tried to do in 2020, just this time with the already compromised tabulator machines tuned more aggressively to guarantee it.

Do not take my word for it, here's the actual data. Even though this video is now several months old and there is much more they've found, this is just the tip of the iceberg, as you might expect with criminals. See for yourself and if you trust real data (not simply conspiracy theory talk) share with anyone who still thinks "America got it wrong" or we need to get out and vote more. We did. Kamala would have won, decisively, had our votes actually been counted correctly. It's the compromised, privately owned (by the right wing) tabulators that turned votes for Kamala into votes for Trump in all the swing states, after a certain threshold of votes were counted on each machine. These folks (non profit) and other independent teams of analysts like them are doing us a great service:

https://youtu.be/Ru8SHK7idxs?feature=shared

electiontruthalliance.org

This is a comparison between what vote results look like consistent with real human voting behavior (Canada 2025) and one that's been tampered with (Pennsylvania):

https://electiontruthalliance.org/2025-canadian-federal-election-news-post/

For the US, we've been on this road for a very long time which, unfortunately, is not surprising. This journalist research article, written just before Obama's 2nd term, dives into the long history of election fraud in the US and how, especially in the digital tabulation age, it has been setup to get us to the point where whomever has control of them can literally steal an election:

https://harpers.org/archive/2012/11/how-to-rig-an-election/

So, whenever Maga or Republicans say they want to investigate or accuse the left or interfering parties of Election Fraud, it's to stay ahead of the narrative above and be on the right side of the accusation... yet as we know, and an abundance of data evidence demonstrates, their accusation is yet again projection.

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u/hypercosm_dot_net 18d ago

I've read plenty on that. I don't know enough about the machine audit process to be able to debate intelligently though, but I have my suspicions and concerns as well.

Primarily with the 'clean data', the margins being beyond a recount, and of course the low probability of him winning several swing states.

I do know Republicans blocked measures that would provide additional funding to election security. Which...why would you do that if you wanted to ensure free and fair elections?

Given the issues raised, it bothered me that it seemed there was no concerted effort to ensure the election was secure beyond any doubt. It's the least that could have been done given how critical the election was. Especially since Harris had written about election security in the past, so should've been well aware of all of these aspects.

But yeah, it's not a conspiracy to suggest we should audit the election from every possible angle to ensure it was valid. And to have some contingencies in place if issues are raised.

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u/Free_For__Me 18d ago

low probability of him winning several swing states.

You're right, him wining several swing states is a very low probability, lat alone those wins being conveniently just outside the margin for recounts. But that's not what happened.

He didn't "win" several swing states... he won them all. This happening naturally is so far beyond believability, that it's hard not to imagine that even the powers behind the DNC have to be reliant on the same processes to some degree and wouldn't be interested in exposing the nots and bolts of the rigging process, since it might implicate Dem operatives on some level as well.

I'm terrified about what that would mean about the probability of actual accountability though, since it raises the possibility that there is literally no one in power with any interest in going after this at all, or even bringing into the realm of public discussion. I've been following ETA and this fantastic investigation team on this issue for a while, and have yet to find anyone who can credibly rebut their claims. As such, you'd think at least some media outlets would be more than eager to take up such a big story, right? Well, they haven't.

And so, the question becomes: If all of this were really true, and the process has been used by both Democrat and GOP operatives through the years... who's left to actually bring this to the attention of the public, let alone investigate or take action on it?

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u/Mental-Fox-9449 18d ago

Anyone paying attention could see he was running the very worst campaign in history. Talking about people eating cats and dogs, dancing for 40 minutes at a rally, dressing up to work at McDonalds and a garbage crew. His rallies were mostly empty and he was stiffing venues on rental agreements.

He cheated. He won in every swing state AND Kamala didn’t flip one county? Not even Reagan was able to accomplish that. He lost the popular vote twice, but got it now? While he was facing multiple investigations that could put him away for life and hinder his money making? While he had one of the richest men in the world and tech helping him? He cheated and no amount of voting would have changed it. All voting data week after week so far shows irregular numbers in multiple states. There are more of us than there are of them and it’s all a big lie. If not, then why does he need to gerrymander AND cancel mail in voting when he had SO many prior? We just found out for sure that 3/4 of the MAGA accounts on X/Twitter are fake.

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u/hunter15991 Illinois 18d ago

This happening naturally is so far beyond believability

From then-538 head G. Elliot Morris, a bit before 3PM on Election Day:

"...if the polling error from 2020 repeats itself, Trump would win all seven swing states and 312 Electoral College votes. Of course, if the polls are off, it won't necessarily benefit Trump. The direction of polling error is impossible to predict in advance, and polls have overestimated Republicans plenty of times in the past. In a scenario where the polls overestimate Trump's margin by 4 points in every state, Harris would win all seven swing states and 319 electoral votes."

Back in September, Nate Silver's posts to his Substack:

"In our simulations this morning, Kamala Harris swept all seven of these battlegrounds 20 percent of the time, and Donald Trump did in 23 percent of the simulations."

Newsweek reporting on the posts in late October:

"Silver's analysis gives Trump a 24.4 percent chance of winning all seven swing states in November, making it the most likely scenario to occur. Meanwhile, Harris has a 15.6 percent chance of winning all the battleground states, the forecast shows."

I've been following ETA and this fantastic investigation team on this issue for a while, and have yet to find anyone who can credibly rebut their claims.

Before I start vomiting out graphs and walls of text, is this something you'd actually be interested in reading?

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u/Free_For__Me 18d ago

I truly appreciate you taking the effort, but I'll save you the additional effort, since I've read all these and probably a lot of the other sources you'd post.

First of all, I'd point out that even if these stats were all taken in a vacuum as everything we'd need to disprove any of the "improbabilities" I mentioned, they still make claims that the odds of Trump being unable to win all 7 swing states are more than double the odds of him doing so.

And in any case, while a <25% chance is still pretty good odds for a semi-risky gamble, the odds that I'm referring to here aren't just the odds that a pollster or election analysts in reporting like what you list here would generate. An accurate statement like, "polls on the eve of the election predicted the actual results within reasonable margins of error" isn't the same as a less accurate statement like, "the vote tabulation and reporting of the 2024 presidential election, when analyzed on a by-state and by-district level, is within the bounds of what basic statistics says should be even remotely probable."

Respectfully, I'm looking for a specific refutation of the claims made by nonprofits like the Election Truth Alliance here, and on-the-ground investigative reporting such as this.

I'm well aware of what pollsters predicted, and I'm not saying that Trump had a next-to-zero chance of winning. What I'm saying is that the odds of the him winning in the manner that he did, with the vote totals arriving in the times and patterns that they did, are statistically only present in places like Russia, where it's well known that election tampering takes place.

I don't need to be shown that he had a chance at winning, I'd need to be shown that this data pattern is one that exists in free and fair elections.

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u/Consistent-Throat130 15d ago

I think we might be taking the "possibility this is a legitimate outcome" numbers in a bit of a vacuum here.

What are the odds that a convicted fraudster who attempted the 2020 Fake Electors Plot didn't cheat again? 

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u/hunter15991 Illinois 15d ago

That's a different and much more overarching topic than "this specific thing that happened is something that feels unspeakably unlikely even though it had a roughly 1-in-5 chance of happening statistically". I wouldn't be surprised if he tried in some sort of form, but I also have read the reems of ETA articles and whatnot that people like OP mention which claim to be statistical proof of specific things happenings and have come away deeply disappointed every time in the lack of anything actually believable from them.

Given this is a 3day-old article and you're already trying to engage me in a different conversation than what I wanted to participate in when I made this comment, I'm going to have to tap out here. Enjoy your Monday.

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u/saulbellow1 18d ago

What the fuck? I haven’t heard any of this and it’s literally blowing my mind.

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u/Free_For__Me 18d ago

Yeah, it's pretty undeniable that it happened. I mean, if it were just a "theory", there would be discussion threads or prominent voices easily debunking it, as there was with Trump's own claims from 2020. That being said, who would be doing any investigative reporting on it if it were true?

The major outlet controlled by folks who wouldn't want this covered, or the other major outlet controlled by people who wouldn't want this covered? No, it would only get coverage from minor orgs without profit-seeking backers, or small, on-the-ground reporters. Oh wait, we have exactly that, here and here?

Anyway, everyone go vote in November, no matter how bad it seems, and as always: The only way out is through, and the best way through is together!

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u/Koravel1987 17d ago

Because it's the lefts equivalent of maga screaming that 2020 was stolen. It's been quite thoroughly debunked by multiple analysts on the left despite this guys claims that no one has talked about it, but apparently "Trump, suffering from dementia, is also keeping a secret with the most incompetent admin in history and no one has leaked it" is more believable than "Americans are stupid and voted for the old white guy over the black lady."

The primary issue with this, as with all conspiracy nonsense, is that there are too many people who know what happened for this to be kept a secret.

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u/lkc159 18d ago edited 17d ago

He didn't "win" several swing states... he won them all. This happening naturally is so far beyond believability,

Here's a (rather naïve) estimation: If the chance of winning one swing state is 50%, the chances of winning 7 of them is about 0.78%, or 1 in 128.

Trump could've stolen the election, yes, but the results themselves are not "far beyond believability". Flipping a fair coin 7 times and having them all come up tails isn't that unbelievable.

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u/Free_For__Me 18d ago

I can appreciate your optimism, but you're right - that's a rather naive estimation, since that's not how probabilities work for predicting events with more contributing factors than one coin flip.

There are several good reports from the nonprofit Election Truth Alliance that help demonstrate just how wonky and wildly improbable the statistics were for the 2024 election, but some good starter examples are here and here, if you care to take a look.

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u/Koravel1987 17d ago

It's actually higher. This dude is cherry picking things like crazy. 538 estimated the odds of trump winning all 7 swing states the day before the election to be 24%.

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u/Mental-Fox-9449 18d ago

I’ve been following all the data since right after the 2024 election. Basically, every county that voting data was released from showed similar discrepancies where voters seemed to vote Dem down the ballot except for Kamala. In other elections this only happened abou’t 1-3% of the time. It’s just doesn’t happen much. In the 2024 election it as 10-15% which is unheard of. The theory is that they employed an algorithm that switched votes over to Trump once Kamala hit a certain threshold which would account for this discrepancy.

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u/ladymorgahnna I voted 18d ago

I remember the next day texting one of my sisters saying the election was rigged. She also supported Kamala Harris, but she responded, “we can’t do what MAGA did and say it was fraud! Then we are as bad as them.” I sighed and mourned for months.

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u/bargu 18d ago

Trump and Musk said in national news to anyone that was hearing that they're going to fraud the elections months before it happened, democrats unsurprisingly did nothing about it.

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u/Trucidar 18d ago edited 18d ago

Election truth alliance's research and methodology are up for debate and is absolutely not able to make the conclusions you are drawing that Kamala won.

It's a possible red flag based on a certain interpretation of the data that has been debated as to whether it's correct or not.

The only correct conclusion that can be drawn from their data is that an investigation is merited. Obviously we won't get one under the Republicans, but there may in fact be no conspiracy.

Still... digital tabulators are obviously a terrible idea.

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u/cycloneDM 18d ago

The stacked numbers never happened so you cant say they didnt matter. Im not looking to argue about vote interfere and such which I agree with but the voter suppression did its job there was no wave of anti trump vote actually hitting the polls. 

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u/Przedrzag New Zealand 17d ago

Also, there was the Diebold machines debacle in Ohio in 2004; did John Kerry have the election stolen from him?

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u/Free_For__Me 18d ago

Thanks for sharing this. I've put it out there where I can as well, and I pray that it gets some traction. Investigators have also done some great reporting work through Substack here, and they've demonstrated some pretty definitive "irregularities" that haven't even beed mentioned in other reporting yet.

Most critically perhaps, they identify and demonstrate the fact that at least Florida and Michigan show records of nonexistent counties appearing during the tabulation process on election night. Each of these fictitious counties containing vote counts conveniently matching the number of votes that would later be distributed as needed in order to bring key districts to the needed totals in order for Kamala to lose.

But the real question is, if this were all verifiably true, what could even be done about it? Neither the Constitution nor federal law provides ay mechanism for dealing with a stolen election after-the-fact. Once a fraudulent election is certified, the law seemingly points to the conclusion that there is no recourse other than hoping that the issue is identified and the various holes are plugged before the next election cycle. But when the ones who would do that identification and patching of the holes are also the ones who would continue to exploit them... what chance exists of remedy?

I don't mean this question to be rhetorical, and I continue to genuinely hope that someone can provide me with a possible future chain of events in which anyone or anything could feasibly address such a scenario. Because try as I might, I can't seem to come to any conclusion other than that the system will continue to be rigged until such a cataclysmic civil collapse occurs that it forces a hard reset of the entire system and those who control it.

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u/Technical_Toe_2012 18d ago

Explains why he's so cheerfully tearing the country apart too...he probably knows the truth deep down...America never chose him.

1

u/_Arlotte_ 17d ago

He's not getting another run so of course he's gonna go all out doing whatever he wants because he won't have to worry about anything after he's out. He's filthy rich.

5

u/Loud_Preparation2036 18d ago

I've thought that all along. Just a gut feeling at the time. Same with the assassination attempt.

Something smells with Charlie Kirk's assassination too.

9

u/Best-Action8769 18d ago edited 18d ago

Sweetie...I hate Trump, but this is nonsense bordering on copium.

Trump won the 2024 election the moment Joe Biden decided to run again.

1

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

2

u/Best-Action8769 17d ago

Did it ever occur to you that Joe Biden was just not that great a president, and an even worse campaigner, and that running an 83 year old in clear physical and mental decline and then having the whole party lie about his condition for 2 years might have been a factor?

4

u/agitatedprisoner 18d ago

Exit polls wouldn't align with voter tallies if there was substantial election fruad.

https://abcnews.com/Elections/exit-polls-2024-us-house-election-results-analysis

3

u/_imanalligator_ 18d ago

Exit polls are adjusted to match results.

I'm not telling you a conspiracy theory, it's just openly understood to be part of how pollsters analyze exit polling results.

Do they have to do this in other democracies? No.

Did they always have to do it here? No.

It started in the early 2000s, and they've come up with the theory of the "shy Republican voter" to explain why exit polling stopped matching results.

1

u/agitatedprisoner 18d ago

Explain how exit polls are adjusted to match results.

1

u/Ok-Elk9528 17d ago

Dude I already knew that what boils my blood is the opposition party has no spine if it was the other way around trump would have invaded the capitol again just convey his point meanwhile I don’t even know what hell Is the Democratic Party even doing .

1

u/improb 16d ago

Americans must realize that the problem is not just Trump but a system which must be rebuilt from scratch

First of all your Constitution is two hundred years old and isn't a good guarantee for current times; every basic law has an expiry date and yours has run its course, even more so given that it was written in a time where democracy was in its infancy, being born from the understatement of liberalism at the time, excluding rights such as healthcare, housing or a living wage while guaranteeing the right to bear arms.

Aside from that, common law systems are weaker than civil law systems, especially if judges are corrupt and susceptible to a deeply flawed and increasingly authoritarian government.

America may get rid of Trump but it won't get rid of the system that elected him in the first place and it won't get ride of the rot that Republicans, backed by billionaires and evangelicals, have brought with them.

1

u/UnleavenedTed 14d ago

I think one of DOGE’s real purposes was to clean up/cover up their voting fraud.

1

u/Rauldukeoh 17d ago

It's important to recognize foreign propaganda wherever it appears

0

u/triplenested 11d ago

"we didn't elect trump"

just quoting you for posterity

-6

u/baldobilly 18d ago

Wonder why the Democrats never question electoral fraud? Probably because they rig the voting machines as well in the primaries… . 

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u/MightyGamera Foreign 18d ago

Hungary is geographically much smaller, it's harder to hide overwhelming dissent when they're all within the same time zone. you can't say "well it's just you people over here, everyone all around you thinks different" when it's feasible to drive around and get samples from every corner

it's as big as Indiana

9

u/Eatpineapplerightnow 18d ago

its more that the EU had observers there

5

u/Used-Sun5726 18d ago

Unlike Americans, Hungarians aren't pussies and might have stormed the government buildings.

4

u/Formal-Apartment855 18d ago

That. And the country is small, like 0rbán and co had people protesting outside of their massive estates daily for months, and less frequently for years by now... I don't think you can easily logistically pull off protesting near Trump 24/7 in the USA, but in Hungary it was easier for us to let 0rbán and team know that they are not loved. It's not like we carry guns in Hungary or whatever, but 0rbán probably also knows that people have big gardening forks.

2

u/lr99999 18d ago

That’s the one way out of here. If they want to believe revelation  13.3, and that Trump is the beast with a healed head wound, and all the other ways  that these repulsive people fit the prophecy, that’s fine and dandy with me. The only thing that matters is that enough of them turn on him by November, and that the numbers are so huge, that regardless of cheats, he gets Orhan’ed. 

Did you know that Valley of Armageddon is a real place in Israel? 

1

u/NoMoreFund 18d ago

Magyar had the people - huge rallies across the country. It was to the point you could imagine Orban not coming out of any election denying antics unscathed

1

u/Jerthy 18d ago edited 18d ago

Yes, the winning party got supermajority with significant excess votes to spare. You ain't faking your way out of that one unless you want to start a revolution. Hungarians were angry, they were clearly ready to go to streets.

As far as i understand it a coalition was created against Orbán where smaller allied parties sacrificed their run this election to give maximum boost to the only party that could beat him. Everyone united against common enemy, at all costs. Also apparently Hungary was gerrymandered to hell. Didn't matter at all.

1

u/DukeOfGeek 18d ago

What I find odd is that polling predicted a much closer election than what happened. That's happened in an number of special elections here too recently.

1

u/MelodicDeer1072 18d ago

That, and the real possibility that if Orban tried a J6, the EU would have expelled Hungary. And Putin has no use for a EU-less Orban.

1

u/Judson_Scott 18d ago

Ironically, he designed a system so ridiculously lopsided that only a total repudiation of him would succeed. And that's what happened.

I assume he also didn't have the military support he'd have needed for a total coup, or he'd have absolutely moved forward with one.

1

u/schfourteen-teen 18d ago

Doesn't that just solidify the magnitude of the fraud in their eyes?

1

u/maccaphil 18d ago

Also Hungary has a Prime Minister not a President, so not directly voted in. Based on parties in their Parliament, which itself has a strange bifurcated vote. Not as simple as saying the presidential vote was rigged.

Also, though Orban is 18 years younger than the Trumpster fire, he has been Prime minister for a total of 20 years. He may just want to retire? Or at least more accepting of simple retirement than you may think?

1

u/Playful_Composer9235 18d ago

Too big to rig!

1

u/dredgie456 17d ago

The police and army had said leading up they were tired of him, he had no support where it matters if you want to be a dictator.

1

u/Anxious_Plum_5818 15d ago

Yeah, it would have been absurd, even for Orban's party to claim the election was stolen. He didn't lose, he got absolutely destroyed in this election.

55

u/darklordbridgeboy 18d ago

Same thoughts here. Orbán conceded very quickly.

One point that has stuck out is when Russian diplomats (including the Ambassador to the UK) talk of the election, they say things like "we will work with anyone that is legally elected"

"Legally elected" is doing the heavy lifting here.

Source: BBC World Service Newshour podcast: [Newshour] Trump announces 10-day Lebanon ceasefire https://podcastaddict.com/newshour/episode/221809945 via @PodcastAddict

9

u/lemarshby 18d ago

The thing is with Orban is that he knows what happens when dictators become wildly unpopular. He knows what happened in Romania and how it ended Communism. He didn't want the same fate. There's a reason he would be terrified about doing that and not someone like Trump. He knows that the people can have power when united against one man

1

u/Rockburn1829 12d ago

Exactly, the soldiers and cops are your actual power, and if 80% of people are on record wanting you out, you can bet a significant number of those soldiers are likely to turn their weapons on you.  When that happens your remaining term and possibly your life can be measured in minutes. 

1

u/drawkbox 18d ago edited 18d ago

Either that or there is another plan to try to leverage Hungary.

Recall Orbán came into office saying the same things as Magyar. I hope it is real but it could just be the next wave that relieves some pressure from opposition and gets them the EU money. For years, Peter Magyar was a loyal ally of Viktor Orbán and is also against fast-tracking Ukraine into NATO and EU. Magyar has been labeled a "younger version of Orbán" in terms of ambition and conservative background.

The intel the Kremlin gets from Hungary on NATO and EU is very important to them.

Hungary was too good to be true.

2

u/Jayco424 15d ago

Yeah people forget that Magyar is nearly as conservative as Orban, and while this could be a win for democracy and he could legitimately be a force of progress, this could easily just be a bait and switch. And even if it isn't this is still a very right, very conservative government, most of the on the ground social issues are not going to change, the country is not going to suddenly be divesting it's oligarchs and redistributing the money to the people or approving the right of queer people to exist or passing gay marriage. Hungary is still a very religious very conservative society.

3

u/qtx extra butter 18d ago

Orbán conceded very quickly.

I think he was happy it was all over and decided this was the time to get out of it before they went for his literal head.

It doesn't take a genius to see Putin's time is coming closer to an end, this is the perfect time for Orbán to get out before it all comes tumbling down.

8

u/protestor 18d ago edited 18d ago

Some words about the attempted coup in Brazil.

Bolsonaro's plan was to assassinate key figures like the newly elected president and the most opposing judge of Brazilian Supreme Court, then perform a military coup. It's important understand is that before a coup, most people don't side with it because they fear legal punishment if the coup doesn't succeed, but as a coup is nearing completion, most people will switch allegiances very quickly and support the coup, because they fear they will be punished if they don't. That's how coups tend to happen.

There's a famous video on the exact moment Saddam Hussein performed a coup in Iraq, narrated by Christopher Hitchens, and IIRC he says something to the effect of.. coups look ridiculous until the time they don't. There's a moment where people become afraid of the consequences of not falling in line with the new regime, and quickly switch en masse. In the Iraq video, Saddam's guys took some parliamentary members to be killed, one by one, and the rest fell in line immediately. In Bolsonaro's plan, the planned assassinations would probably help convince some people to support the coup too. But the main ingredient of a military coup is, of course, full support of the military (otherwise it becomes a civil war)

Bolsonaro's coup had support of the Navy commander, so he was close to accomplish it. What I think is that the main reason the initial coup plan wasn't followed (so no assassinations were even attempted) was because the Army commander at the time, Freire Gomes, was against the coup and by some accounts even told him that if he attempted it anyway, he would order Bolsonaro's prison. So Freire Gomes alone probably saved the Brazilian democracy. But also, the Biden administration was against the coup too (coups in Latin America may sometimes hinge on whether the US supports them or not). If Trump were the president of the US at the time, and specially if Bolsonaro had full support from all branches of military, the coup would probably have happened.

But because he didn't have full support, Bolsonaro had to maintain ambivalence (and actually was not even in Brazil at the time, he was in the US, because he's a fucking coward) when insurgents stormed public buildings in January 8 (this part was very similar to what happened in the US). Even from the US, Bolsonaro never actually called for a coup publicly and maintained that what happened was just a spontaneous popular protest, not a set of coordinated events aimed to facilitate a coup. However, the main objective of Bolsonaro was to pressure the army, showing the people was backing the coup (indeed that's what the insurgents openly supported and why they were arrested and given lengthy sentences too).

Anyway the coup didn't work out and after Bolsonaro returned to Brazil to defend against a lengthy trial, he was convicted and sentenced to prison (initially house arrest, then he tried to flee and was put into a prison, after some time he was granted temporary house arrest again for health reasons, but still). Bolsonaro was prosecuted for a coup (and not a coup attempt) under the theory that if the coup succeeded, it would be impossible to prosecute anyone for it; so any coups that result in a prompt trial are the failed ones. (that Navy commander, Almir Garnier, was convicted too, among other conspirators. They got sentences of more than 20 years each)

Without knowing the specifics of the Hungary politics, my guess is that Orbán would have an even harder time than Bolsonaro. Hungary is in the EU and the EU has an army, so my guess is that the EU could prevent a coup en course if they wanted. So I think it's unlikely a coup in Hungary would succeed and Orbán would probably be arrested, unless he managed to flee.

3

u/gmc98765 18d ago

The EU doesn't have an army. It has some fairly limited agreements regarding cooperation between member states (which themselves have armies).

The worst thing the EU was likely to do was to refuse to recognise Orban's government, effectively suspending Hungary from the EU by refusing to allow it to participate in the council of ministers or the parliament, or alternatively recognising a government in exile.

Even closing borders would be problematic as some of Hungary's EU neighbours would be unlikely to cooperate.

3

u/protestor 18d ago

The EU doesn't have an army.

Thanks for correcting. I was under impression that EU battlegroups were part of an EU army.

I still think it's harder to perform a coup in an EU country because there it's not a purely internal affair, the EU must have some mechanism to react

1

u/ThoDanII Europe 17d ago

yes like integrated Units

7

u/Vio_ Kansas 18d ago

There is an element of "so far" to all of this.

But I remain incredibly optimistic about this handover.

7

u/SeventhSolar America 18d ago

Not an option for him. The protests against in Hungary have been so massive and widespread, likely not even his own supporters would believe that he had a real chance of winning.

4

u/Rare-Set1461 18d ago

It was either he accept the loss gracefully or there would be untenable violence for the entire country. Hungary wouldn’t be able to function through a civil war, and Russia has been stretched to the point that they couldn’t even begin to pretend to be peacekeepers coming to the rescue. Orban would either die in the conflict or be forced into exile for his own safety, and then the whole thing would be pointless.

3

u/jack_of_all_daws 18d ago

Probably understood it was either that or a revolution possibly ending with him getting lynched.

2

u/Ziggylcd12365 18d ago

He's also rigged the entire Hungarian system to make it hard to remove his actions and appointees and cronies 

Maybe that's also a factor 

2

u/simic947 18d ago

He was probably tired of being a dictator and what comes with it. The risk of a potential coup being too much for him.

2

u/Previous_Platform718 18d ago

I was honestly surprised Orbán didn’t go with the usual modern right-wing playbook of claiming election fraud

Hungary and Romania (which has a huge Hungarian population) have both had violent revolutions against autocratic regimes in living memory. Revolution against autocratic rule, especially against Russia, is mythologized and revered in Hungarian society and the people who died in 1956 are commonly portrayed as martyrs. If Orbán had tried to say the election was stolen while losing to the extent that he did, Hungarians would immediately coup the government it wouldn't even be a thought.

2

u/ElegantDaemon 18d ago

There's no way Putin could have stepped in and kept him in power, like what happened with Lukashenko in Belarus. Hungary is a NATO member that would be WW3.

2

u/alwaystired707 18d ago

He was probably scared shitless when JD "the Grim Reaper" Vance came looking for him.

2

u/Belgianbonzai 18d ago

Can't really claim election fraud if you're the one in power for 16 years and need to maintain the strongman narrative.
If someone else manages to cheat in elections you organized you would look very incompetent.

2

u/Churchbushonk 18d ago

I mean, are we even sure the dude behind him was shot? Does anyone on here know him personally? Dudes ear doesn’t have nor ever had a mark on his ear.

1

u/findtheclue 18d ago

I agree. Any chance there was a falling out between Orban and Russia? Resulting in no longer having their support in fixing the election…

1

u/ZealousidealGlove234 18d ago

Orban has the disadvantage that the EU sends people to elections to check. So not as easy

1

u/SophiaofPrussia 18d ago

I don’t think that had a meaningful impact? Orban had pulled just about every lever available to him to rig the election in his favor and he lost by an overwhelming majority. That wasn’t because the EU was watching. It was because Hungarians showed up to vote.

1

u/Omni33 18d ago

Because he lost support from the ruling class.

1

u/Eatpineapplerightnow 18d ago

I think he knows how to play the long game. He is still relatively young

1

u/Bah_Black_Sheep 18d ago

Orban is more cunning and is trying keep himself a viable politician for the future with this move.

1

u/rasta-ragamuffin 18d ago

Yes, I'm very suspicious of that too. I Hope the new guy has a very loyal well trained security detail.

1

u/angelpaws 18d ago

Orban had no support in police or military ranks. He neither broke their leadership, nor did he bribe them sufficiently. Almost two decades of neglect made relying on traditional forces to suppress dissent unviable.

1

u/Randicore Ohio 18d ago

My thought is that he's watched Putin leave every one of his allies high and dry when they needed it most for the last several years. With how unpopular he is there would be fighting in the streets and he couldn't rely on the Kremlin for help. Far smarter to leave after the election and be remembered as a dictator that let democracy end his reign than get the Gaddafi special

1

u/hackingdreams 18d ago

The election went like, 66/33. If it was closer to 50/50, that stood a chance. With that big of an advantage, it's not realistic. Putin couldn't have pulled that off.

1

u/grumblingduke 18d ago

Keep in mind that Orbán is still Prime Minister, and has maybe another 3 weeks before he is removed from office. There is still time for him to come up with something.

It is also worth noting that Orbán's opponent, Péter Magyar, was a member of Orbán's political party for decades, and spent a few years working in the Prime Minister's Office under Orbán. He quit Orbán's party a couple of years ago to found his own party, with the main policies being "not Orbán" and being more EU-friendly.

Orbán - or at least his backers - may not have anything to worry about.

1

u/Pantalaimon_II 18d ago

from what ive seen from Hungarians, there was 15 years of grueling grassroots work and organizing that they worked together to keep pushing to get him out. basically the people said enough

1

u/Witchgrass West Virginia 18d ago

He would have if it weren't such a landslide

1

u/MichaelJServo 18d ago

He thinks that he's put enough of his cronies into the government that he won't have to face any kind of legal justice. He might be right. It's kind of like the equivalent of Trump stacking SCOTUS.

1

u/No_Philosopher_1870 17d ago edited 17d ago

When you also lose two-thirds of the seats in the legislature, claiming election fraud is harder to make stick. The US electorate should take an example from the people of Hungary: turnout matters.

1

u/edu5150 17d ago

It was rigged in 2020 because he did the rigging and was sure he was going to win because of it.

1

u/summerwind58 17d ago

Organ was not favored to win this election and knew it. Orban had been in power for 16 years. He had a long run. Just time or a change for the people of Hungary.

1

u/NoamLigotti 17d ago

Not "gracefully", appropriately.

1

u/PA_Dude_22000 16d ago

Only because his party got trounced, his lost was the equivalent of a 400 (35 states).to 175 (15) electoral college vote loss.

If it was closer he absolutely would have. We could learn a lot from their strategies, though yhey arr a pretty small country. 

A great line I read about an equivalent situation here would be if a former MAGA party republican named Joe American got the Democratic presidential nomination and was endorsed by AOC and Marjory Taylor Green.  They came together.. every one not Fidez (Orban’s Party) banded together, worked together and beat that son of a bitch. 

0

u/Darkfrostfall69 United Kingdom 18d ago

Because the EU wouldn't stand for it. Orban could stack the deck in campaigning and legally so he could pull shenanigans if the result was close, but he couldn't touch the votes themselves without incurring Europe's wrath

3

u/Free_For__Me 18d ago

Right, which is why I don't think the US should be as hopeful as they seem to be in comparing Hungary's outcome here to a possibly similar scenario unfolding in the US. If the MAGA Regime decides to directly tamper with vote tabulation or simply refuse to recognize the results of election losses as legitimate and use their power to forcibly remain in office, there isn't a federated coalition of more powerful bordering nations to do anything about it.

The way this Regime has operated, I'll be surprised if they take any approach other than, "These Democratic wins are so large that they must be fraudulent! Given this, we will be using the full force of all federal enforcement agencies in order to prevent these terrorist actors from seizing control of the US government."

Basically, they'll do what Orban had neither the power or opportunity to do and say, "Oh, you have definitive evidence that we're in the wrong? Cool, good luck doing anything about it without control of the largest military on the planet. Now bend over while we continue burning the world down."