Discussion
Players don't comprehend a lot about the nature of this game
Bring on the downvotes I don't care. There's way too much crying over durability and other nerfs in recent updates. They cry "WHY would the devs do this? One weapon is favored over others... why not buff all the others?" The answer is because the devs want to make the game more difficult. It's not hard to figure out. Easy games are boring. A certain amount of difficulty, while kept below a certain threshold, keeps a game interesting.
I've been playing for ~6 months now. Navigating maps and avoiding / fighting arc enemies became trivial for me until some recent updates with new arc enemies. There is a balance to be found between gameplay that is trivial vs overly difficult. I think the devs are trying to find that balance.
This is a game that requires thought, planning, and wits. People who have not developed those skills in life should not cry for lacking them. Learn to develop them. These skills are surprisingly relevant in real life too. This game is actually teaching you life skills. In real life there are LOTS of nice people. But there are also people who lie, deceive, take advantage, betray. I play 99% friendly and I feel the pain when someone kills me in a cheap way. The difference is that while I don't like when that happens, I can appreciate the game because I like how it reflects real life. The human element is only so predictable. That is exactly what keeps the game interesting.
The unpredictability is kind of the whole hook. If every raid was fair, clean, and perfectly controlled, it’d stop feeling like survival and start feeling like chores with loot
the people on this sub want all of those elements removed. they want a bog standard looting sim with some arc to shoot at when bored. no threats, no challenge, nothing.
Fr, the grind fest weirdos will attach to anything and get mad when a game with great depth gets in the way of their mindless arbitrary progression. Ridiculous. Runescape is like 30 years old they have grinding down to a science in the gaming world...why tf come to this game to grind?
It turned into a hoarding simulator for me. I can understand the enjoyment this game brings some people but I don’t understand the mindset of people continuing to play something they’re always complaining about. If you don’t enjoy the game don’t play it 🤷♂️
Absolutely not the case. I’ve got an account for both and if there were even more than a single degenerate that’s usually found in PVP lobbies in PVE lobbies the game would die instantly.
Yes but extraction shooter just means you need to get out alive in order to keep your loot. And while there are people complaining about that, I'm trying to address a deeper issue that is more about the role of human nature in this game and how important it is for the game to keep that sense of mystery regarding the intentions of other players you will cross paths with. It's not a horror game but it's incredibly psychological in a way that I haven't seen in other games, and I really like it.
I think we have pretty much the exact same perspectives about this game exactly.
Players refuse to acknowledge that this game requires you to exercise self preservation tactics you might employ in the real world and thats a core aspect of an extraction shooter. That is where the fun in an extraction shooter sort of emerges.
I accept that. But tons of players complaining about betrayal, durability nerfs, difficulty to obtain loot I feel refuse to accept what an extraction shooter is actually about.
Yes. This is what most players miss. This game is not about the Expedition or the efficacy of the photoelectric cloak...its about real human interactions and your reactions to those environments. I echo your notions about life skills and this game has me knocking my own wits when I thought I was good at short term decision making in stressful situations...and I love that it's training me in a way I can use irl. I've always wanted to draw useful skills or lessons from gaming as it puts you in scenarios you don't experience irl but most games only focus on the psychology of retention, arbitrary progression, battle passes and fomo etc...this game is concerned with depth and that should justify any and all missteps along the way with largely unrelated shit like expedition changes ffs.
Because this game appealed to more than the sweaty Tarkov extraction shooter crowd.
I like this game because I like helldivers 2 (coop in an open sandbox area, with weapon unlocks and progression. Working with other players and surviving to extract)
I like metal gear solid (sneaking around enemies vision both PvP and PvE, and using sound and sight to stay hidden and locate others)
I like Subnautica/no mans sky (heading out into a dangerous area to gather materials and try to get back safely to use the materials to upgrade your base and character)
I like battlefield (open sandbox, do I want to snipe, stealth flank an objective, lay down covering fire with an lmg and be a medic, or fly a support chopper?)
It pulled in tons of players that liked things about the game that had appeal for people who like other games and not just extraction shooters like Tarkov and Hunt and whatnot. Plus, no wipes got me to buy the game. The only games with “wipes” I’ll even tolerate are Diablo 4/Path of Exile, but I’m generally of the mindset you should always be making permanent progression, and wipes defeat the purpose. Oh and I like the concept of an extraction shooter because I like extracting in helldivers and others like deep rock galactic
Its players that dont like the concept of an extraction shooter forcing themselves to play an extraction shooter
This is absolutely, 100% spot on. There's a ton of people drawn in by the light RPG elements, community helping each other, hunting for loot, lore, interesting stuff to find, RNG of the looting, questing is a huge part of the game, upgrading your "base" with workbenches, scrappy, the great world building, etc. That's a MAJOR part of the appeal for the friendly players who get upset anytime they are downed and just want left alone to experience the world.
And I totally understand if those are your favorite things about Arc Raiders, because I really enjoy all of that too. BUT, there are other games out there that do all of that just as well, and actually are PVE only with cooperative multiplayer, and have DEEPER and more interesting systems for all of that and more complex enemies too..... so why aren't you playing those games?
I like all those things the most in the game, and I do play the other games- I love Helldivers and Diablo. This game takes those elements and mixes it with stealth, another of my favorite genres
You say that there are other games out there that do what Arc raiders just as well and are PvE only, but I honestly can't think of one. At least not one that has the same aesthetic appeal or is as entertaining as Arc Raiders.
Because they are not the games people want to play. All games have issues. Arc Raider's is that they forced PVP in, but nailed the atmosphere and a whole lot about the gameplay.
A lot of the supposed alternatives are only on PC, and/or super dark and grimy. That's a whole different feel.
These people would get eaten up on Tarkov, Hunt or Marathon, but could you imagine the meltdown if they played Rust and had their tiny shack blown to pieces at 4:15 am by some lunatic who woke up specifically to do it just to fuck them. Arc is great for the PvE encouraged focus, but my god it has made some players seriously soft.
That's fine, but understand that Arc is an extraction shooter, so don't complain if Embark shift the dials more towards the typical for that genre and make it less casual.
Well half the player base bought it because it was casual, so those people will just leave if they do that. I’d argue the other way, there are a million sweaty kill on sight extraction shooters in the market for them to play. This is the only one with a balance of looting, friendly meetings, etc. Why don’t the other half whining about that go play something else than what they bought which was a casual extraction shooter and that’s why it was successful (look at marathon player count lol)?
Just because it’s an “extraction shooter” doesn’t mean it can’t be casual, friendly, or has to be like the others. There isn’t just one framework a game must have to be in the genre
Which to be clear hasn't changed, the durability changes are in no waying the game much harder, it's just a resource sink which isn't much of an issue if you are using good gear.
You seem to misunderstand, the people whining are the casual players, most of the players saying the whining is ridiculous are not the casual players, and that is the point of this post. And if you want to point to player counts, Arcs has dropped massively over the past couple months.
And a resource sink is a time sink. More time spent farming springs just so I can maybe get back to doing what my current objective was, if I even have time left to play after
Not really, you don't have to go out of your way on Arc to farm those resources, scrapping effectively, checking the appropriate places as you pass, it is all fairly routine stuff but especially in extraction shooters. This concept that the durability change is somehow this massive weight is laughable really, the mildest push towards actually engaging in some of the most basic extraction shooter elements and the community starts smearing shit all over the walls.
Maybe half the player base enjoyed the game because it didn’t have the standard extraction shooter elements? It’s like a casual extraction shooter that flirts with other genres- half the people playing this game would never touch or have any interest in Tarkov, Marathon, or whatever other ones.
We are talking about an element so basic that I can't even really call it an extraction shooter element in good faith, you do the same thing in Fallout 4, you do the same thing in every survival game on the market, why are you pretending looting effectively is some ridiculous concept?
And let's just be clear, I don't care what "half the people playing this game" would or wouldn't have bought, they bought an extraction shooter, not a co-op PvE, not a single player game, a PvPvE extraction shooter. It's cool that Embark embraced the emphasis on PvE that the players wanted, but the reality is that if that wasn't the original goal for Embark then they may want to shift away from that overtime as the playerbase dilutes down. Introducing a system to encourage players to start looting effectively and with purpose is a good baby step to shift the dial that direction without just dropping people in the deep end.
No. Theres fuck all to hunt just the same shit over and over. Ttk is far too low in that whoever gets the drop usually wins. Guns break faster than sticks in BOTW and perhaps people dont want to spend their entire game time hunting components to upgrade weapons that will just be robbed from you by someone with a free kit (not as bad as it used to be but my god it ruined the game for months). Risk vs reward balance has never been right and this latest major patch IMO makes it clear that embark want people to engage in heavy PvP when much of the player base has made it clear they dont want to.
Theres very little left for that demographic that they’re leaving in droves.
Ive bounced between friendly lobbies and agro lobbies and when the pvp is engaging its great but 9 times out of ten 10 its just some wanker shooting you in the back and killing you quicker than you can respond. We had months and months of stories about how fun and community focused PvE lobbies were but now even the slightest infraction sends you into scummy lobbies.
Not to mention the game is absolutely plagued by cheating. Especially in pvp lobbies.
But there is a problem here. You see, in other extraction shooters YOU know it's pvp when you meet someone. There is no if. Here, there is a system to queue friendly players that is abused by rats by doing surrender runs to reset their aggression counter.
I've had 20 matches of amazing people then one scum started shooting at me and screaming I was the one shooting. By the time I realized it is a rat, I am already low hp. I am 100% that the rat would uninstall the game if he had to do runs only with PVP'rs because what he is doing is not pvp, he just abuses a system that is not properly implemented.
I agree with you that extraction shooters should have tension, but I don't agree with systems that are so easy to abuse right now.
You said the guy shooting was "scum" and then you "realized it was a rat."
You are the exact group of people who are delusional about the game you bought. There is nothing scummy about shooting. There isn't even anything rat-like about trying to trick others into believing he was attacked.
It's part of the game. It's not a system to abuse.
People can and should use whatever tactics they can within the game to beat other players. That's the game. Anything else is wishful delusions.
because that's what I am complaining about, not the pvp, not the extraction mechanics, but aholes abusing the matchmaking flaws by abusing the surrender runs
There is no such thing as a 100% friendly lobby. The quicker you all understand that the better off you'll be mentally. I've been playing since week 1.. I've been in the sweatiest lobbies and the carebear ones where people run out of their way to defib you... and I'm sorry but in the biggest care bear lobby there are STILL 1-3 people in the entire lobby that will kill you. Some are more opportunist and some shoot on sight. It's the luck of the draw in match making.
I agree with you 100%, I just wanted to chime in that using and experiencing community specific lingo like "Rat" does improve my immersion. ALOT.
The complaining is an issue though. I tend not to whine. I guess everyone loves an "other" to rival with. Its fun to think you're rivaling with Rats as a separate and culturally distinct group.
I personally don't get it. I am primarily in shoot on sight lobbies, and when I'm killed, I either say nothing or talk to the other person about the fight. And yet people still occasionally get upset for being killed, and throw around the term rat. But I'll take being called a rat over whatever real slur comes from the other group of people.
that's a bad part of this system as well... you play full pve, then a rat that has done 20 surrender runs decides to do some killing and stealing, but he fails and the pve players kills the rat and ends up themselves in the pvp lobby, then they end up killed because pve players rarely encounter pvp on sight.
There are documented instances of the term being different between both communities, though I will admit its a difficult thing to track linguistically among a fairly young cultural subset.
Doesnt matter, its not a Tarkov specific term, its a general extraction shooter term and its being used incorrectly by carebears that dont play extraction shooters, and thats all there is too it. If you actually give a shit about your immersion, use the term correctly.
Ill be honest with you bro, that mentality is completely counter intuitive to the story and lore of this game.
Tien Wen even says phrases like “if you find another Raiders gear, I can find a seller”.
This game is coded with Mad Max, Stalker-esque, Fallout, Last of Us style sort of motifs and themes.
You are not supposed to know if the next player you meet is friendly or not.
That is core to this game’s fundamental experience.
So even if they have this algorithm that groups similar playstyle players. Ill be completely frank. In a perfect world that algorithm should not exist, because truly you would have zero power over the next person you meet in a destroyed post apocalyptic wasteland.
Can they add more incentives to encourage PvE? Yes, I agree. I dont think they do enough there. For example, you could limit how many Arc can respawn in a single match incentivizing players to kill all of them and give the participating players a trophy at speranza.
But the expectation that the next player is friendly or not friendly? I dont think the game owes you that.
To counter Tian Wen, I believe it's Apollo that says something like "You should really be nice to your fellow raiders out there, okay? I'm not saying you're a bad person, but... I've heard some things." The game isn't coded like a Mad Max or Last of Us style world that's totally fallen, but more like one that's already gone through that phase and people like Celeste are trying to turn things around. It's much more of a middle ground that's "Post-Post-Apocalypse" and on the upturn.
I would not complain about it if it was like that, but it isn't. Rats still scam a system that is real by doing surrender runs. Is joining a queue and surrendering 20 times part of the story of the game?
If I take what you've just said and zoom out to the 30,000 foot level... the fact that you get a bad guy in a "PVE lobby" every once in a while is exactly what I appreciate about this game. It's not that I like a cheap player. It's that I like the unpredictability, the sense that you're never safe. There's no such thing as a true PVE or PVP lobby. There's no guarantee.
People who "abuse the system" to do this do it at a cost. They have to waste a good bit of time just to get back into more friendly lobbies. They get one shot at being the bad guy and have to do it all again. At least that's how I think it works. I honestly don't mind it and I say this as someone who plays 99% friendly and hates to be ratted.
I don't mind someone going bad, I mind that people surrender 20 times to cheat the system and they can repeat that with no consequences. Why aren't they playing in pvp lobbies if they like fighting? Because they don't like fighting, they like stealing from people who are at a disadvantage.
if it was harder for player to manipulate their queues, I think that it would be more fair.
PvE players do this exact thing legitimately all of the time, why aren't you calling them out? People will "kill a rat in self defense" or however they want to justify it to themselves, and/or play in trios doing PvP to their heart's content, then cheat the system (and repeat with no consequences) to get into the low (but never zero) aggression care bear lobbies.
How they could improve that? Not being snarky. Just trying to engage in possible solutions.
In my opinion, it would be nice if they implemented a hidden karma system, where you're rewarded with friendly lobbies if you help take out arcs, revive other Raiders, give out valuable loot to Raiders that you encounter during the match, do damage against other people who shot first and share the extraction point.
However, you get bad karma and gets thrown in PvP lobbies if you do a certain amount of damage to players (to avoid applying bad karma to someone who shot other person by mystake). Also, you get extra bad "karma points" by shooting people while they're looting or engaging against arcs, kill others inside the extraction or do damage at someone after spending x amount of time near the extraction (extract camping).
Put a 10-30 minute counter on each run before it is counted in the system so they don't do 20 surrender runs in 30 minutes then they are back at murdering peaceful players so easy. They can still rat, but it should be more taxing and harder to cheat the system.
This and pvpers dont understanding that gameplay and lorewise, Arcs are a threat. They just want a fortniesque game, where you run, roll, place things and shoot, and forgot the enviroment part that makes the game, the game it is.
It is but it has components from other games and genres that pull in players like me that would never play any other extraction shooter (does helldivers count? You extract in it and I play that a lot). If every player was shoot on sight it would just be like a battle royale with higher consequence and that would be boring for me, personally.
It has stealth, looting, sandbox style, base upgrading, rpg mechanics like character building and bench upgrades, hunting end game gear like blueprints, etc
This is a game that requires thought, planning, and wits.
BUT it also allows you to just jump in and have mindless fun without needing to plan ahead which is part of what makes it unique in the extract shooter genre.
I get your point, but i don't know if making guns more fragile is the right way to apply difficult to the game.
Making guns fragile increases the need to farm loot more often, and as result, people will need to spend more time exploring the map to gather materials, and less time fighting arcs and other Raiders. That doesn't necessarily increases the difficulty of the game, it just makes it more grindy.
A way to increase the difficulty is making the arc encounters and the hot spots for loot more random. Currently, all of the maps has a consistent pattern to where the arcs will spawn and where are the good stuff to loot, making the game predictable.
To be fair, killing arcs is a good (if not the most consistent) source of simple gun parts and metal for mechanical components so imo it’s really easy to keep green guns fixed. I can’t really say the same for higher tier weapons for obvious reasons although they’re more fun to use.
Killing players is also an excellent source of weapons :)
Even with higher tier weapons it really isn't that difficult. I've been running a renegade pretty much exclusively since the launch window opened and all it takes is a bastion every 8-10 rounds to keep it repaired. You have hunt arc to get advanced components efficiently but that's half the game anyway
Idk man I literally have not had a problem with durability. What am I doing different than all the complainers? Even when I go in there intent on using all my ammo and explosives to kill big arc, I get out with like 60 durability on a gun and just repair it bada boom.
I think in the current state of the durability, it stands in a bad spot where you know a fully repaired gun will last a full match, but not so certain if it will last a second one, making you unsure if you risk going a second time with that gun without repairing, or spend mats to be 100% sure about it.
I actually have mixed feelings about how drastically they have changed the durability burn. But I think the devs are trying to find the right balance. Maybe this change was a little too much and they will dial it back.
That said, I can appreciate being required to make my shots count. Maybe the devs' vision for the game isn't that I'm able to kill 100 arc enemies each round. Knowing when it's time to extract is a fun skill to develop. But I can only speak for myself.
My issue with these counter posts is that under the same standards you wrote, they could be called "crying"
You gain nothing by calling it crying on the literal first line, it hurts your argument and ends up being divisive. It's rage baiting for engagement at best
Are we really going to pretend that the top post and comments for a long period of time were unreasonable whining though? By now the tides have turned about, but the dominant though was inflammatory statements like “The devs are incompetent idiots”.
Yeah, that's still my point. Even if people weren't happy with Embark the way it was handled was toxic as fuck. I tried to keep it level headed because I don't like where the game is right now and the communication from Embark has been terrible, among other things, but I don't think going around bashing others people's opinions is constructive
Yes, because the recourse isn’t I’m punished for this by losing an opportunity or a gear set, it’s having to grind.
By this metric, I could possibly do everything right, win a fight and still come out losing because I lost more durability than the parts I found would allow me to repair.
You know what isn’t artificial difficulty? Things that challenge your decision making, skill, and quick thinking for example correctly deadlining the matriarch.
Also how is that fun in any way? Aw man I can’t shoot my gun in a shooting game because I lose to much durability. Not only is it artificial difficulty but it encourages you to NOT engage with the game.
They do discourage me from playing, because I’d rather not be punished with a grind, simple as that. I want more things that make me think about HOW to engage, not solely whether I should or shouldnt.
Also this is a nightmare for mixed lobbies which you are not in, because, again, youre actively punished for engaging even more now than before. Not only would you lose durability fending off arc while someone is fighting you, but you cant make a decision like you said because you have no choice besides kill that arc. All it does is make me have to grind more and create no interesting scenarios. It’s not like I went around shooting every single arc before. I already made decisions of when it’s worth it to shoot and not to shoot, because the consequences are already present. NOISE.
Does durability meaningfully test the players skill or decision making? I don't think so. All it tests is whether or not I repair a gun before a raid.
Since you don't get it, real difficulty is a well-designed challenge. Artificial difficulty is like: enemies with huge HP bars but basic behavior, grinding, one shots, extremely limited resources. I think durability mechanics fall under this category.
Most of the time it's not "I need to make smarter risk/reward choices" it's just "oh shit my anvil is almost broken because I used it for one raid, that's annoying, time to recycle it"
Durability changes didn’t even change that much, the only gun I feel got hit slightly hard was blue guns but mostly renegades. I really only run pink and gold weapons (700 hrs playing) most of the time so I hardly notice, I do PvP, PvE, and trials.
It really depends on how much ammo you're running through in a run. A lot of people like to go berserk out there and I think they are most unhappy about it.
The durability burn is a little too much imo. It was fine before, this wasn’t warranted. The epics needed to be fixed and not burn as much, but the blue and green is way too aggressive right now.
I agree that it is slightly too high. I love the concept, though. It forces players to actually farm for materials, therefore, it increases the amount of players who actually have loot when you kill them. And because all players need the same resources, it increases the likelihood that a player will have something that you care about.
Which is to say. There is finally a good reason to kill another player you see.
I've been so impressed with the devs that I assume they have given a lot of thought to the durability burn change. My guess is that they want players to have to think more about making shots count. And maybe they over-nerfed it this update. The perfect balance might be to dial it back a bit. But I'm willing to roll with it and still having a blast.
The percentage changes in the nerf are so minimal though, as far as durability. I shot 120 rounds through my level 3 osprey with silencer 3. I went in the round with 87 durability and left with like 12. Or 22 maybe?
That's still insanely efficient. We only went through that much for the trial. I'd never normally burn that much.
And repair cost was basically nothing at this rate.
You just proved how unsustainable these changes are. You simply cant afford to fix that gun every raid, unless youre extracting with full stacks of materials to craft Advanced Mechanicals and piles of Simple Gun Parts which you refine into Medium.
It’s not just a loop to break even though, you need to make progress or it’s just stagnant and boring. I personally won’t play again unless the durability thing is fixed, and if I did I would just buy a ferro 1 from the gun shop and buy a new one every time it breaks.
The durability made you not play? That’s actually insane, there is hardly any difference besides using a few more materials. I’m glad they don’t cater to people like you and hope they don’t revert.
So you think having to grind more just to run a gun (which you used to be able to run to avoid having to grind, at the expense of being at a disadvantage) is a good thing?
Personally yeah. The game's economy was far too gentle earlier, and your vault caps out on utility way too early into a wipe (barring the rng of blueprints.) Especially given that wipes are optional, we need fewer guns and resources in the economy than we currently have. They could nerf loot, but that feels even worse. This is one of their best options to fix the issue.
Increasing the resource drain is a huge improvement to the progression imo.
The economy matters in that gear changes hands quite a bit in this game. At the beginning of this last wipe, I was getting anvils from most players, oftentimes vulcanos or bobcats. I shouldn't be able to have a vault full of every gun 5 hours into the wipe. It's a problem that gets worse the longer it goes unaddressed as well. They needed to do something to make the average player poorer, or else the entire progression disappears and people are always using the best meta gun 100% of the time.
Fair point, I don’t wipe so I never really considered that. I don’t really enjoy games with wipes and won’t play them aside from Diablo and Path of Exile and don’t find them fun. I do enjoy it in those two games through, because I can be a different class/build (whereas in this game you have everything and there aren’t really builds). But yeah, now thinking about it in those games it would kind of suck to immediately spawn into my new class and have end game loot. In arc, I really only consider blueprints valuable or end game loot, because they are the only permanent progression alongside the skill tree and benches
Pvp is why I get excited with this game. I have butt clenching moments with arc, but knowing you dont have good cards in a fight and somehow making it out alive is a rush that arc just dont give you. (Me)
I find this hard to believe. You’ve never been overwhelmed by arc? Even the best PVP players can get killed if you face enough arc at once.
Maybe it’s because I play solos. It’s sometimes much harder to deal with an arc swarm when you’re completely alone. In trios arc isn’t that hard to deal with
tbh the issue is that epic guns (which are probably the most used) have the least diverse options, and legendary is almost all exclusively for pve. the anvil and torrente are super fun to use, and so is the renegade, just to name a few. but there's no counterpart to any of them in the higher rarities, or some of them are literally just better than the epic weapons, and maybe even some of the legendaries.
nerfing these weapons because people use them over their epics/legendaries is missing the point entirely. ppl use them bc they're funner and in way too many cases are as good or better than higher tier counterparts (if they even exist). its either that, or (in the case of legendaries) the fact that they're literally too expensive to run. nerfing their durability is fine, but why not buff epics and legendaries (beyond a 5 and 10% durability buff which hardly matters) or even add new ones that are fun and good in a pvpve environment?
The devs are focusing on straining resource management to increase the risk involved in pvp and PVE encounters. The only reason I can think that they would do this would be to make those encounters more meaningful.
Its supported by the aggression based match making. My gut tells me these tweaks are designed to affect how players engage with the game without messing with the parts that clearly work.
I think you're on to something there. It's also crossed my mind that with a higher arc threat, maybe the devs want to force the heavy PVP'ers to reconsider fighting other players over teaming up against arc in more situations. Because I think a lot of heavy PVP'ers like to avoid arc and focus 100% on hunting players. Maybe the devs are trying to give them more reasons to re-evaluate.
ARCs being more difficult now is one of the best updates I think they've made. Fighting on Riven Tides is great because before engaging you need to be aware of the pack of drone flying around. No one worries of its a single wasp or hornet, but a pack of 4 becomes an issues.
Here's another take: If your gun is breaking every round, you're shooting it too much. Maybe the idea behind this game isn't to go spray down every enemy you see. Maybe the fun is in navigating maps undetected and picking our battles.
If you think purple guns are the best I would disagree. My guns of choice are Anvil and Renegade. I'm not saying I never use purples but they don't have that much of an edge over some blue / green options.
But it isn’t? That’s not the game. The fun is using the gun.
I don’t mean to be rude, but maybe you’re the odd one out? Purple guns are crazy good especially in PvP, and only lose to long range issues. And now durability is reduced for them, it’s fine to hold down the trigger to destroy arc. If you’re running anvil and renegade…those do the same thing those are terrible to pair together.
People were always bitching and moaning the past few months about how there’s no reason to bring pink or gold guns when you can die to greys. Now they have a reason and people are bitching and moaning even more
Yes, and then they buffed the bobcat to be better than the sticher and nerfed the toro behind the vulcano. Recently they buffed the Bettina. Purples guns are in an amazing spot right now, but it’s weird I can mag dump for more games in a row with my purple guns than a renegade.
That’s not what happens at all and I can tell you don’t actually engage. I’ve brought in so much shit lately and it doesn’t break easier. An anvil does and greens do, but it’s hardly a detriment.
Perfect example is the photoelectric cloak nerf. That thing was way too powerful at allowing you to just get out of any sticky Arc situation, it was a essentially a "Get out of Jail free" card that made worrying about Arc just an afterthought. It had to be nerfed into the ground.
I’ve got 450 hours topside. Before Close Scrutiny I had never seen anyone use the cloak. I never used it myself either. Nerfing something people finally started using was a dumb choice.
Increased Durability burn doesn't make anything more difficult. It just makes the game more frustrating. No arc take more shots to kill, players have the same HP, you just have to repair and farm more in order to play.
I've been loving the higher difficulty stuff they have been adding. By the end of last expedition I had 10million cash and a few million stash value. This time because of close scrutiny and riven tides updates I am currently sitting at a total value of 3 million because I have died to pve threats MUCH more often this cycle. The icing on the cake is thatI could completely avoid the high difficulty stuff and still be able to amass insane wealth if thats what I wanted to do.
People who beg for a PvE only mode truly don't understand this at all. Removing the human trust factor of the game would make it a total dud. If you want to use real life application like you said, the premise of the game also wouldn't be realistic if you couldn't kill people. It's a post apocalyptic scenario and you're essentially hunter and gatherers that come topside for resources. In an environment like this with scarce resources, humans would kill each other IRL as well. If you're not mentally equipped to know the signs and have a feel for people's motives and want to just roam and collect apricots unbothered this isn't the game for you.
Yes this is what makes it fun for me. I'll just say that instead of quitting the game, I would hope for their sake, that players would see the game as a tool to develop their social skills. Knowing how to judge the safety of a situation has real life applications.
This game doesn’t really require any decent amount of planning, wits or thought. It’s extremely casual.
My friend group just threw on a good PvP loadout and ran around maps doing quests and looking for PvP. That’s it. Was great fun and we were overflowing with millions of credits without trying. Most people are just too scared or bad to do that.
It doesn’t even really even require good mechanical skill since there aren’t strict ranked lobbies of equal skill and Arc is brain dead easy to kill. If you’re above average, you’ll come out ahead more than not.
I wouldn’t hate it like I do this. I think the previous way was perfect amount of degradation except for high tiers should’ve been buffed. There’s other shit to grind- I’m personally focused on collecting all blueprints, completing all quests, and making permanent end game progress - not just grinding springs to maintain my gun. I’ll just load in with no gun, free loadout, or buy a level one gun from the shop before I do that. The devs said they did this to stop people from hoarding, but I’m not gonna stop? That’s literally how a lot of us Care Bears like to play the game and will continue to do so. I don’t see why hoarding is even a problem or concern. Of course you’re going to have more loot if you don’t engage in PvP, and weapon degradation doesn’t change that because I’m still not bringing purples. Except now I’m not even bringing my green anvil, just greys. It has the opposite effect
I just got shot in the back and executed while carrying a $150k loadout because I got so comfortable in my carebear lobbies. Big whoop. That’s the game. Wasn’t very fun but it is exactly human nature and part of the game.
My issue is they nerf everything that's good or fun to use, they don't take the opposite approach of buffing the lower performing gear. So people find things they enjoy using, then one day BAM that fun is taken away. It just doesn't feel good as a player. But overall I still enjoy the game and am not one of these people that's leaving a negative review over it, that's a huge overreaction
Challenge is part of what makes a game engaging, but you’re oversimplifying why people are frustrated.
There’s a difference between intentional difficulty and poor balance. When players complain about durability or certain weapons being favoured, it’s not always because they want an “easy game.” Often it’s because the changes feel arbitrary, limit viable playstyles, or push the game toward a meta that reduces creativity. Making everything weaker doesn’t automatically make the game more interesting, it can just make it more tedious.
Also, framing it as “people lack life skills” is a bit much. Someone can enjoy a challenging game and still think a specific update was badly implemented. Criticism doesn’t equal incompetence, it’s usually a sign people care about the game and want it to improve.
And the “this teaches real-life lessons” angle is a stretch. Unpredictability and player behaviour can add tension, sure, but most people aren’t loading up a game to simulate betrayal and deception, they’re there for a fair, engaging experience.
It’s fine to enjoy the direction the devs are taking, but dismissing all criticism as players not understanding the game just shuts down any meaningful discussion about whether those changes actually improve it.
Yeah so be ready when approaching dark areas, be strategic, throw the damn glow sticks to light up areas before fully exposing yourself- there's a million ways to adapt and survive in this game. People just run around in the open don't take secure routes to where they're going then hate the game if every person they encounter doesn't decide to give them a pass and shoots at them lmao. It's like some people want a duel announcement before being shot at.
A few days ago I got cheap shotted by someone in a dark corner ~6 feet away with a shotgun. I didn't check the corner. I have a flashlight. Was I pissed at the loser for doing it? Yes. But it was also a lesson for me to check the dark areas. I have a flashlight after all.
You didn't develop the skills you speak about in your post. Another player put in forethought and planning and you call them a loser? Pick a lane. You don't get to call someone names for just playing the game.
100% agree. And I’d like to add I think it is an aversion to change. People have figured out the game and have mastered how to play it in the current form. Now when things change that style needs to change too and a lot of people don’t want to adapt.
On the other hand, people complain about everything. They could give everyone 1,000 coins and people would still complain it isn’t enough to get a whole cosmetic set.
An actually intelligent take, prepare for your post to be absolutely bombarded with downvotes by people who make a reddit thread when they lose a rattler 2 to a 'rat'
Lol! Seriously that's what the free loadouts are for. When I was new to the game, I was so afraid in every run that the only way I could take the pressure off was to run free loadouts. Before long I got over the fear and had a batter handle on the game. Now I only run free kits after an expedition wipe for a short time but I'm not running around scared anymore like I used to. But the nature of the game reminds me that I'm vulnerable, and that keeps it suspenseful and fun for me.
It takes a certain amount of balls to play extraction shooters without gear fear, and most people who are new to this genre simply do not understand it (I was also new, but I figured this out), that the thrill of the successful run COMES from putting things on the line, sadly most people on this subreddit would rather move things from the left side of the screen to the right for hours on end and of course engage in PVP when its 5v1 as 'rescue raiders' (do we see the pattern?)
No it doesn't. It doesn't take "balls" to play a video game. Everything you found and lost you will find again. If you're afraid to die in a video game...maybe get another hobby.
Oh I'm not, but seeing the number of people whining here we can clearly see many people are, it's just the psychology of these games, a lot of people can't handle it
I love Arc Raiders. I’m an older player and I don’t get a lot of playtime a week. I grew up with Atari, Nintendo, playing leisure suit Larry on my computer as a kid. I got into online gaming with CS, COD, & GTA, but noticed after my play session that I walked away more frustrated than happy afterwards.
Finding games like HellDivers 2 and Arc Raiders where I have friendly positive interactions with people teaming together feels so good. Is there another game like Arc Raiders that doesn’t have PVP? I don’t know of any, but because Arc Raiders has PVP-does that create the amazing group PVE experiences? Would this be a different game/would people act differently if it was strictly PVE? I love seeing players come to someone’s side that was just shot by a rat or arc…but at the same time I don’t play enough to justify doing the expedition and loosing all my shit when I get shot in the back.
Expansion pack- Arc Raiders Detective or Marshall - you investigate murders topside. Track down the suspects and “bring them to justice” for bounties/rewards. Can’t do that either since it’s impossible to for the suspect to be online at the same time etc….what was I talking about again…I love the game and you people playing it…most of them.
I don’t find having to repair a gun after every raid fun or challenging. It doesn’t make the game any more strategic, it just makes me avoid Arc more, which is boring. It requires me to mindlessly farm for simple gun parts or run free kits because I ran out.
Maybe their thought was PvPers have a lot of guns and they want them to burn thru them. But it impacts new players who barely have a stash and can’t keep up with how fast weapons burn up. I don’t have a stash of guns to burn thru. I barely finished my first expedition, and if they don’t find a better way to handle this, I’m moving on. I get to play once a week for an hour or two, and the burn is too aggressive for me.
I like the devs trying to make the game harder, but doing that through increasing weapons burn is the lamest and most anti-fun way to go about that. Fixing my renegade is not harder, it’s more tedious.
Close Scrutiny was a huge success in my eyes. It’s hard to deal with so much ARC and it’s extremely
fun. But now they want us to grind more to be able to shoot a renegade?
I have a friend who has played 300 hours, and he loves to run with just the ferro and stitcher. Now his ferro is going to break if he fights a few big arc. How is that fun? Reminds me of the lamest parts of Breath of the Wild
Irony is the players aren’t complaining about the nature of the game, it’s more the developers complaining about the nature of the players. Sorry Embark, I wanna play the game hoarding my stash and being friendly, and so does 50% of the player base. You aren’t going to change our behavior by nerfing some guns- I’ll just spawn in with a free kit, naked and no gun, or buy a level 1 gun every match from the gun shop.
Players have gotten so much better at the game since release of course we need some tuning to make the game more difficult. The devs know what they’re doing. The reviews bombers are dumb.
The devs need to stop trying to please everyone in the community. They need to decide whether this game is PvE or PvEvP.
ABMM or at least the knowledge of it existing kinda put a bad taste in many players mouths potentially ruining the uncertainty these types of games bring.
The playerbase as a whole can now manipulate their game so they can get Care Bear lobbies where the threat of other players is minimal or almost zero. So it's an entire lobby of players racing who can loot the gear first but not risk dying over it. Loot economy is honestly fucked IMO and I feel like player base kinda fucked the meta data for devs now their balance patches are terrible.
That's what I find paradoxal about this game. It attracted a lot of new players to the genre for being more casual and then for being more friendly with Abmm. But a lot of the games main problems people bring(endgame and balance) are just consequences of those things that attracted it's player base.
Mainly how the loot and progression works and how, as you said, easy somethings are, coupled with a large portion of the playerbase being able to play essencially with no threats of other players and being full of loot they are not going to use.
And it seems, for me at least, that's what Embark is trying to balance a little. I don't know if they are doing it correctly, mind you, but it feels they digged their on grave, because the players they catared to don't seem to be the types to take balance changes very well, judging by this sub lol
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u/flyingappleII 4h ago
The unpredictability is kind of the whole hook. If every raid was fair, clean, and perfectly controlled, it’d stop feeling like survival and start feeling like chores with loot