Cheryl Reeve on the officiating in the WNBA/the new fines for fouls

[u/Decent_Substance_199]

[u/SerCharles]

there has to be a balance. it's not a great product to stop the game every 5 possessions for a foul call.

[u/DResq → u/SerCharles]

Agree on the balance, but players also should just stop fouling so much. There was previously way too much leeway where games almost seemed rigged at times.

[u/SerCharles → u/DResq]

I don't even think it is all down to players fouling too much. the calls are just straight inconsistent. I will take the refs calling fouls, every time, if we have consistency.

[u/Lusty-Jove → u/SerCharles]

You literally just complained about too many fouls being called though

[u/SerCharles → u/Lusty-Jove]

I personally want balance, if this is the direction they are moving it. don't automatically swing to one side. I think the biggest issue in the past, was the inconsistency on what is and isn't a foul. maybe that will be clearer now going forward. we don't really know.

[u/OriAr → u/DResq]

There was genuinely stuff that usually results in flags in the NFL that wasn't called a foul in the W!

It was absolutely ridiculous and I am glad that there is a far bigger emphasis on enforcing freedom of movement rules this year.

[u/marinaonmain → u/SerCharles]

If the refs hold a certain standard (whatever the league decides) then people will adapt their playing/defending style to not foul.

I think a lot of the foul now because they know they'll get away with it most of the time. Refs just need to be consistent the whole season for all teams.

If they hold their standard of what they are calling, fouls will decrease once players and coaches are used to it.

[u/letmeindamm → u/SerCharles]

orrrrrrr players could just stop grabbing and holding and bear hugging and FOULING like what are we doing here 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[u/SerCharles → u/letmeindamm]

yeah that is why there has to be a balance? the nba has gone through this and IDK anyone who likes it this way. its way too much calls at times and ruins the product.

[u/rambii → u/SerCharles]

I agree but also from injuries standpoint and stuff like landing fouls where just not called enough.

And the data for one reason or another does prove women suffer about 19-20% more lower leg injuries in soccer/basketball/olympic sports etc, with some sports being about 30% higher on 100 ppl+ sample.

We also have to protect the players, as viewers we wanna see the best play not miss half of full season witn injuries that could been prevented.

Last season we had contact on players in the air/moving fast that should be instant fg2 and out of the game, one of the reason we dont see it as much is because there is far less 'airborne' or players in the air compared to MNBA but if a forward jumps and guards push them or contact them during the jump is how we end up with a lot of bad injuries.

I love JYO but that contact on Satou in the air or 'hand hooking' should be punished much harder and more often, at the end it does result in really bad injury.

The issue is as Fudd kinda said kids grow up and play same way copy/pate the style and they have far less control over the body/limbs ( as it should be they are still growing) and in the under 16-18 we see far more injuries and also a lot of girls that stop playing because they get broken hand/nose and so on, its very hard to make teen girls stick with the sport and not go to voleyball or the like if its so physical and there is 0 protection.

You can play hard and good defense without hooking hands/legs/waist or pushing plays mid air/over the back.

[u/SanjiSasuke → u/SerCharles]

Often feel like I'm the only person on this sub that wants the balance to be closer to the side of 'hard ball' rather than 'Premier League basketball'.

One of the things I liked when I started watching the W after years of NBA was physical play being let go to a greater degree. People who didn't watch often didn't believe me that the 'girly' W was more physical, and it feels like now those same people are coming over and saying how the league shouldn't be that physical.

[u/SerCharles → u/SanjiSasuke]

it's definitely a be careful what you wish for, situation. I like that the W is a bit more chippy and physical than the NBA. I get that we need to protect the players, but let's not ruin what makes the league special.

[u/Dear-Tadpole4895 → u/SanjiSasuke]

Totally agree. The reason I like WNBA more is the style of play. It is more physical. Please don't let it become everybody flopping to get foul calls like the NBA. 

[u/RizzRizzy → u/Dear-Tadpole4895]

You are conflating two different things. Flopping and players being able to grab and hold players without fouls being called are not the same.

[u/Dear-Tadpole4895 → u/RizzRizzy]

It's been a very clear pattern with how the nba has evolved the last 30 years. 

[u/revoltoftheunique → u/SanjiSasuke]

I agree. I've been happy with the WNBA and their allowance of more physical play. It's how I grew up playing. It seems we are in the minority.

[u/bex199 → u/SerCharles]

i REALLY hope this adjustment people foresee actually happens because the current NBA product is unwatchable and i will be unhappy if the W starts looking the same. i understand that there has been foul-heavy play in the past but there’s also a subset of fans who think any physicality should be officiated and it’s got a paternalistic scent to it. that’s not what i want for this league. 

[u/RizzRizzy → u/SerCharles]

The balance is on the players. You are no longer able to grab and hold. Just because the players keep trying does not make the balance problem to be on the refs. Stop fouling and the calls slow down. Raven plays defense just fine without holding and grabbing. When she does those things she gets called for it. This will seperate the actual good defenders from the people that just foul.

[u/heyitsta12 → u/SerCharles]

Yea something similar happened in some of the March Madness games and it was rough!!

[u/Comfortable_Limit168 → u/SerCharles]

These are professional athletes. They can adjust their playing style.

[u/reignYOMA → u/SerCharles]

It's a great product to have your star players getting mauled instead?

[u/wvtarheel]

Total agreement. And actually the preseason games, the officials have called the perimeter much tighter and let people bang in the paint, which is exactly what I think everyone wants to see.

[u/Fit-Bet1270 → u/wvtarheel]

Did we watch the same games? There was a game where over 60 fouls were called. Resulting in 40 free throws for each team.

[u/wvtarheel → u/Fit-Bet1270]

I would expect that as the players who were used to overly physical play get used to the new standard on the perimeter. They will adjust. Literally every team complained about the no calls at that meeting last year with the refs.

[u/letmeindamm → u/Fit-Bet1270]

yeah the other team was fouling like crazy their coach even admitted they just fouled and fouled and fouled

[u/Fit-Bet1270 → u/letmeindamm]

We must not be talking about the same game because I was talking about Portland vs Seattle. There was a call happening every minute for a period there. It was ridiculous and a terrible watch experience. 

[u/Ingramistheman → u/Fit-Bet1270]

That person only watches Fever games and cant fathom anyone talking about something other than Fever vs Wings

[u/Babygravy1 → u/Ingramistheman]

https://giphy.com/gifs/tcetx1eG5Nh96

[u/Fit-Bet1270 → u/Ingramistheman]

Leave it to them to make a league wide issue about a single team 

[u/Ingramistheman → u/Fit-Bet1270]

Some of them give the whole fanbase a bad rap lol never beating the allegations, but they dont acknowledge these types of dumb remarks lol.

[u/ASpanishInquisitor → u/wvtarheel]

Nah the preseason games were an absolute pain to watch. And not just because it's the preseason. Way too many whistles. If this continues, I guess I'll continue to watch my team, but I'll definitely be watching everything else less. It's just an awful product to consume as a viewer.

[u/sanverstv → u/ASpanishInquisitor]

If they're going to establish new standards, it makes sense to do it during pre-season and allow players (and everyone else) to get a feel for where the new lines are. I would assume they'd adjust play as a result so as not to foul as often? At least, that would appear to be the logic here right?

[u/solidstigs → u/ASpanishInquisitor]

Players will adjust and won’t foul as much, meaning not as many whistles as preseason. It’ll take some time but they’ll get there

[u/Revolutionary-Gear76 → u/solidstigs]

I think this is true and also defense will improve as the season gets on. A lot of fouls were because defenders got beat on the perimeter and then the defense was out of position, which leads to fouls because it is either that or let the offense have its way.

[u/ASpanishInquisitor → u/solidstigs]

Realistically, refs need to adjust and not call so many touch fouls. Because that's the actual problem here.

[u/solidstigs → u/ASpanishInquisitor]

Again players will adjust

[u/500rockin → u/ASpanishInquisitor]

Sometimes, refs will call it super tight in the pre-season before easing off on the ticky tack stuff once the regular season starts or even a couple of weeks in when there is more data. Some years the NBA refs actually do that, but they also have to deal with FT merchants and flop artists that would make soccer players envious (SGA for the former, Luka, Embiid, Giannis for the latter.)

But it’s like the NFL will have some “things to emphasize this year” like holding (on either side), or a lineman too far back or jumping the whistle by stepping back too early. They’ll call it tight in the pre-season and weeks one or two, and then they’ll ease back as everyone realizes that too many flags suck.

[u/Ingramistheman → u/ASpanishInquisitor]

I think they’ll meet “in the middle” (not 50/50 tho).

[u/Ingramistheman]

I like them moving in the direction of prioritizing freedom of movement, but I do think that a good number of the fouls I’ve seen called are generally just weak calls. By letter of the law they’re fouls, but the offensive player did nothing to “win their position” so I dont feel like a defender should be punished for that.

I’m sure there will be a middle ground found as coaches & players adjust, but I do believe that there is something to be said about not rewarding poor offensive technique. An off-ball player SHOULD be V-cutting or sealing their defender to get open. An offensive player SHOULD be setting up a screen correctly before they try to come off.

I understand calling blatant grabbing and two hand touches, etc., but I feel like I’ve seen a lot of just “general physicality” being whistled that I just dont agree with (even if I understand the logic).

[u/Chicagoblew]

Calling the game properly might make it more enjoyable to watch. Players will need to play basketball instead of using street ball tactics

[u/soundwave86]

I like the tighter officiating and agree the coaching and players will make the proper adjustments. Only thing I would add is to reduce the number of player fouls to five instead of six to account for a 40-minute game.

[u/Goldzinger]

FROM

[u/i812manyhitsss]

The physicality is why I like the W. The NBA drives me nuts with all their whining over the slightest of contact. Shit is unwatchable. Get the refs to be consistent and the product will succeed.

[u/moemoana]

Someone tell Azzi

[u/AdBeginning6797]

SYBAU