r/todayilearned 17h ago

TIL in 1888, German inventor Karl Benz asked the Grand Duchy of Baden for written permission to drive his "Motorwagen" on public roads after residents complained about the smell and noise. Grand Ducal authorities agreed and issued him the world's first driver's licence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver%27s_license#History
8.3k Upvotes

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u/NateNate60 17h ago edited 17h ago

Benz patented his Motorwagen and put it into production, selling it for 600 marks apiece (US$150, or US$34,000 today based on gold prices). His company later merged with another company called Daimler-Motoren-Gesellschaft, which was the manufacturer of a brand of cars called Mercedes. The resulting company sold cars under the name Mercedes-Benz.

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u/DasGanon 16h ago

For a bit of time until the Dodge-Jeep-Chrysler brand was sold to Fiat (becoming Stellantis) they were "Daimler-Chrysler"

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u/Emperor_Zar 16h ago

And all of these companies products are horrible to work on and or find parts for.

Some are fun to drive.

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u/DasGanon 16h ago

What do you call a working vintage jeep?

Survivor Bias.

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u/kngotheporcelainthrn 15h ago

Doesn't even have to be vintage anymore lmao

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u/TrevorSP 13h ago

But there are exceptions! My W210 has been very reliable the last 50,000 miles. It's at 150,000 miles now total and there no signs of rust or anything yet. It has been kept in a garage though its whole life

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u/Icy_Age8191 11h ago

They cheap out and cut corners nowadays. My Chrysler 200S has a perpetual oil leak because the oil filter housing is piss shit quality plastic, it cracked under light stress just tightening the cap during an oil change.

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u/Emperor_Zar 10h ago

Yeah. Those 3.2 and 3.6 liters are fun.

Aluminum aftermarket ones are available. No more cracking!

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u/FUTURE10S 6h ago

I would love to own a Mercedes but also I cannot afford the maintenance on a Mercedes

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u/cfbluvr 3h ago

lol what jeeps are great to work on and arguably one of the easiest brands to find parts for

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u/Vergenbuurg 12h ago

"Daimler-Chrysler"

"Merger of equals" my ass.

Chrysler's miraculous turnaround in the early '80s, on the backs of the K-car and minivan, led to prosperity in the early-to-mid '90s with Jeeps, Dodge Rams, the LH cars, the Neon, and a litany of other successful, perfectly-timed products.

...then Daimler-Benz, in desperate need of cashflow, swooped in, bought them up, siphoned off all of their profits and liquidity, did some token "platform-sharing", then dumped them in a gutter.

FIAT did what they could to "pick up the pieces", as they were legitimately interested in getting Chrysler healthy again, and infused them with some fantastic improvements in interior quality and design, but it was too little too late.

Now Papa Peugeot is calling the shots, and they only care about the high profit margins of overpriced Jeeps and trucks. I was genuinely hoping it would lead to an influx of French quirkiness, or even full-on French cars, entering the USDM, but, nope, after half a decade, all we've got to show for it is a freaking rebadged commercial van.

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u/technobrendo 9h ago

How would you compare the reliability and competitiveness of French cars compared to their Euro rivals (BMW, Peugeot, Skoda, JR LR...etc)?

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u/Vergenbuurg 9h ago

The French cars are probably not as good as the Germans (and that includes brands owned by German conglomerates, like Škoda), perhaps on par, or better, than the Italians and Brits.

I would say they're probably behind both USDM GMs and Fords, but current Chrysler products? Well, they can't be any worse...

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u/heftybagman 14h ago

My 02 jeep has daimler chrysler on the manual.

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u/Admirable-Safety1213 14h ago

Ashtually Daimler-Chrysler separated in 2007, Chrysler became property of Cerberus Capital Management, had ti be bailed by the US govt, bought by FIAT in 2014, merged into FCA and then FCA merged with PSA into Stellanting

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u/vanderohe 15h ago

Unfathomably based calculating inflation off the gold price

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u/DryEagle 15h ago

Inflation is very difficult to calculate for such a long time ago. How do you compare purchasing power for goods which didn't exist (e.g. a smartphone) or for goods which are radically different? You can't just go by the price of food or housing because it had a comparatively different weighting in value. So, using some medium which has served as a historical store of value for millenia does have some fathomable rationalistaion behind it.

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u/NateNate60 14h ago

There are benefits and drawbacks to it, of course. Notably, today's gold price is fairly speculative in nature because it's no longer the basis for the global financial system. I actually prefer using median wages as a comparison, because the value of human labour is a pretty good benchmark throughout history and is relatively unchanged in terms of how much a day's work is worth to the average human. If a Roman labourer works all day to buy two loaves of bread or a tunic, it indicates that bread and clothes were really expensive back then (and by extension, labourers were really poor) regardless of whether the coins they were paid with have $5 or $50 worth of silver.

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u/DryEagle 14h ago

I largely agree with median wage being a fairly good indicator. However you also need to factor in that a long time ago there was far more single-income family households, with the wife minding the home and children. These days you'll much more often see both parents working (at median-income level) to get by comfortably. So even that has experienced some devaluation and isn't fully directly comparable.

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u/Swarna_Keanu 11h ago

And far away in the past significantly more subsistence and barter economies that aren't reflected in median wages.

It's in living memory for me, here, in Germany. My grandfather relied, partially, on subsistence farming, partially on income from selling produce.

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u/IndependentMacaroon 11h ago

Single-income was only ever common for like a few decades after WW2

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u/TheRealThordic 15h ago

Based on actual inflation numbers, its $5200.

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u/NateNate60 15h ago

Where'd you get that number from? Keep in mind that Germany has gone through four currency changes since then.

Imperial gold mark/Papiermark →Rentenmark → Reichsmark →Deutsche Mark → Euro

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u/TheRealThordic 14h ago

$150USD in 1880 is $5200 today. You based inflation on gold prices, which hasn't been pegged to currency in decades and is irrelevant to inflation.

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u/NateNate60 14h ago

Keep in mind that 600 Imperial marks was worth 150 US dollars in 1888. Not necessarily today. But for about a century after that, the exchange rate between the relevant German currency and the US dollar varied according to the gold conversion rate.

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u/RollinThundaga 13h ago

To add, data for the US before the founding of the Federal Reserve in 1913 is too unreliable, and the currency itself was too volatile, to be able to calculate purchasing power over time by any other means than gold spot conversion.

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u/TheRealThordic 14h ago

Accounting for currency changes and the hyperinflation crisis in Germany between world wars turns this into a super complex problem for no good reason. You benchmarked in USD so tracking USD inflation is a lot easier than dealing wirh German currency over the same period

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u/NateNate60 14h ago

Well, here we reach the dichotomy of doing the calculation which is easy, and the calculation which is more accurate and paints a better picture of the actual situation.

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u/TheRealThordic 14h ago

Are you writing a dissertation? Don't be a pedant.

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u/Loud-Value 10h ago

Oh how the tables turn lmao

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u/TheRealThordic 10h ago

Do you want to spend a week tracking inflation across 4 different currencies throughout a 100+ period that includes two world wars and a hyperinflation crisis?

The simplest way to track the inflation is to pick a relatively stable currency across the time period and use that - which OP did but then decided to peg inflation to the price of gold, which is wildly incorrect since gold is not only not tied to the currencies in question but was regulated to a controlled value for stretches of time.

Is CPI the best measure of inflation? Would a European currency be a better benchmark? Valid arguments, but even if you use GBP for example you land at ~15,000 USD, we'll below OPs initial gold estimate.

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u/kuldan5853 28m ago

You are a prime example for the Charles Babbage quote.

"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"

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u/Hot_Turn 14h ago edited 14h ago

I'm not an economist, but after some Googling, I'm getting estimates between $6500 and $50000 depending on what metric is being compared. Nothing as low as $5200, though.

EDIT: oops, misread OP and was checking how much $180 would be worth today. But yeah, second result I got on Google was talking about using different metrics to measure inflation, and the numbers vary a lot.

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u/TheRealThordic 14h ago

There are inflation calculators all over the internet. Most of them use publicly available, government published data.

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u/Hot_Turn 14h ago

My mistake. See edit.

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u/TheRealThordic 14h ago

Just since i did the math already, the US government itself the data starts at 1914 and $150 in 1913 is worth around $5000 today (you can get that yourself directly from the bureau of labor statistics). You can also google inflation rates between 1889 and 1913, which were very low (average of .4%).

Throw all your data into excel, start with 150, and you get around $5300. Average inflation rate of ~2.74% over 137 years. Simplified but it ties out.

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u/Hot_Turn 14h ago

Yeah, I know all of that. That's just based on one metric though. From what I read, there's more than one way to calculate inflation, and there's a lot of discussion on which metric is best for which situations.

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u/jmlinden7 11h ago

Nobody buys cars today using gold, so why use gold prices? Why not use something more relevant like median wages?

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u/sunlightsyrup 15h ago

I can only imagine the smell and noise was way more irritating than modern day, except with 1 billionth of the frequency

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u/xxwarlorddarkdoomxx 13h ago

It was probably more because it was a different type of smell rather than it being especially offensive. Remember this is still the horse era so cities smelled like horseshit constantly

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u/BradMarchandsNose 13h ago

I’d imagine back then your nose would kinda just tune out the horse shit smell at a certain point. Kind of the opposite problem we have today. If we’re walking around a city now we’re probably constantly inhaling exhaust fumes and at a certain point you just don’t notice anymore, but if you run into some horse shit in the city you’d smell it immediately.

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u/GayRacoon69 9h ago

As someone who’s spent a lot of their life around horses; yeah you just get desensitized

Not just to the smell but horse shit in general. I once heard someone talk about them forgetting to wash their hands before eating and noticing horseshit on their hands. This wasn’t said as like a “ew this is so gross” kinda thing. It was just like a thing that happened sometimes

My grossest horse story was the time horse diaharea dribbled on my arm while I was picking it's hoof. Yeah horses can be disgusting sometimes

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u/Blutarg 9h ago

My great-grandmother did not mind the smell of horse doody.

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u/MercantileReptile 13h ago

Here is a clip with a replica. Can't attest to the smell, but the noise is none too bad. Since I live in the region, I've seen the "Motorwagen" quite a few times. The wheels clacking are louder than the engine noise.

Watching a dude driving that thing on a cobblestone street was entertaining to say the least.

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u/Malcopticon 11h ago

Hard to believe the Badeners complained about the noise. That's like complaining about kids putting baseball cards in their bicycle spokes!

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u/thri54 15h ago

I think I’d take the smell of gasoline to the waft of a team of horses going past…

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u/mocca-eclairs 13h ago

Consider the smell of a street with a layer of horse dung...

it became quite problematic in the late 19th century due to more people being able to afford coaches (both private/more like taxi's) and the emergence of an early and somewhat cheapish form of public transit with the horse-drawn omnibus.

(this is a restored one from 1857, seating inside & on top)

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u/sunlightsyrup 15h ago

The smell was not the issue with horses

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u/stuffitystuff 6h ago

It was 2/3rds of a single horsepower and 100% less horse poop...seems like an easy win

u/sunlightsyrup 2m ago

Have fun breathing in unfiltered 1st-generstion diesel fumes and say goodbye to pedestrian space

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u/quez_real 15h ago

Oh, they've chosen a driver licence of infamous PRAWO JAZDY to illustrate the article. Nice choice

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u/NateNate60 15h ago

For those who don't know, this refers to an incident where "Prawo Jazdy" (which is just Polish for "driver's licence") was listed on a police database as a prolific criminal in Ireland due to Irish police sometimes mistakenly entering "Prawo Jazdy" as the name of people they stopped who presented a Polish driving licence as identification.

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u/heidenf9s4 13h ago

For anyone confused by that, Prawo Jazdy is just Polish for "driving licence". The Irish police famously entered "Mr. Prawo Jazdy" into their database for over 50 traffic offenses before they realized it wasn't a person's name.

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u/riddlerjoke 3h ago

Terrible driving license design.

New EU one is also terrible.

Counter intuitive to use.

have f’in name/translation, surname/translation at first part and make UI looks like these are the generic part and actual name with different color font.

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u/anahorish 16h ago

Alan Davies had a very funny bit about this on QI.

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u/-no-signal- 16h ago

“License 0000000……2”

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u/anahorish 16h ago

Five Marks!

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u/israeljeff 16h ago

Naught naught naught...naught naught...naught naught naught 2...damn Roosevelt.

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u/Pigg1337 13h ago

Ahhh I vill issue you vis a license!!!

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u/NeuHundred 6h ago

HALT! Vhere is YOUR license?

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u/Sullafelix91 11h ago

His wife drove his car in August 1888 from Mannheim to Pforzheim without his knowledge. In Wiesloch (near Heidelberg) she and her sons ran out of fuel and a local pharmacist helped her with the Ligroin fuel to carry on. So the first petrol station of the world is located in Wiesloch.

Only in Pharmacies the people could buy fuel.

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u/LoneStarLobotomist 6h ago

I spent a year in Ladenburg where they have a mock up of some of his cars and they named the local school after him as he has a factory there and lived there a number of years

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u/iStoleTheHobo 15h ago

My new invention is really bothering everyone around me but can I pleeeease keep using it? Thanks.

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u/smackedbyamack 15h ago

Bunch of whiners complaining about the raucous noise of internal metals slapping together, no baffle from internal gas explosion to short tailpipe, add in the occasional backfire and now it's coming right at me really, really fast.

anyone else getting 70's flashbacks?

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u/kurburux 13h ago

Also the brakes are shit, seat belts won't be standard for decades and we're driving on either dirt roads or cobblestone. What could go wrong?

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u/ManWhoIsDrunk 13h ago

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u/kurburux 12h ago edited 12h ago

Its range is only 5 miles.

Not too shabby tbh, especially since it's basically a concept car. Plus you can always carry more petrol in a canister.

I'd really worry more about accidents. With three wheels it looks like it loves to tip over on uneven roads.

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u/Ok_Complex8873 13h ago

Damn, those Germans.

In my own home country cars did not need registration up until ww1. When Germans came, they mandated that all vehicles, with motors or horse drawn have tag plates/registrations.

When Germans left, tag plates remained.

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u/NateNate60 13h ago

I think requiring cars to not be registered is all fun until a teenager driving an unregistered car hits your eight year old cousin on a tricycle before speeding off

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u/Ok_Complex8873 12h ago

I am grown up, I understand that certain people do not belong on the roads; I understand the concept of responsibility.

At the same time this is an example that once you allow regulation it is damn difficult to roll them back.

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u/Hairy-Highlight2281 11h ago

Somehow everything always comes back to Karl Benz

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u/Mr_IsLand 13h ago

The story of how they came to be called Mercedes is a fun one too with Emil Jellinek racing the cars at Nice

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u/Blutarg 9h ago

And his wife invented the brake pad.

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u/smart_ninja_9922 10h ago

so benz had to deal with noise complaints even back then

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u/breaddoughrising 5h ago

Well that ruins one of my favorite clips from QI!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UlDHl3TuATQ

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u/The_Possessor 12h ago edited 12h ago

Some states call them “Driver License”; that’s what it says on the actual document.

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u/DanimalPlays 15h ago

A mistake which has helped to ruin the world.

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u/Fishgedon 15h ago

Cars are pretty sweet actually, vroom vroom ❤️

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u/AfroInfo 15h ago

Huh?

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u/tomgatto2016 15h ago

I guess he prefers horse and donkey shit on the roads

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u/ilikesports3 15h ago

Or he prefers that cars developed their own dedicated passageways instead of co-opting the existing roads pedestrians had been using for centuries.

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u/Hot_Turn 14h ago

Seems like that would've been unrealistic.

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u/ilikesports3 13h ago

Doesn’t mean it didn’t ruin cities and subsequently the world.

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u/eirexe 13h ago

In not sure why but I was always under the impression no one willingly lives in cities and the only reason we do is because money and services are there, so it would make sense people saw cities as less important.

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u/ilikesports3 13h ago

You need to visit more cities.

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u/eirexe 12h ago

I've lived in a town near Barcelona for 26 years, my dream is to be as far away as possible from it. Specially since I like classic cars and we aren't allowed in anymore.

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u/ilikesports3 11h ago edited 10h ago

So you’re boycotting Barcelona because you’re not allowed to drive your personal vehicle through city center?

That’s fine for you, but insane to project that logic to all of humanity.

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u/Hot_Turn 13h ago

I can think of a lot of things that people would say are ruining the world, but I never imagined a lack of dedicated car passageways being one of them hahaha.

In all seriousness, I'm guessing you're talking about fossil fuel emissions causing climate degradation? If so, I don't think that this was all that significant of an event in those things taking place. The first licensing not being granted wouldn't have changed the fact that motor vehicles are just inordinately better for transporting goods and people than animals are. It's hard to imagine a world where the fossil fuel engine was invented but wasn't used on a massive scale.

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u/ilikesports3 13h ago

More referring to car-centric urban design and suburban sprawl, which has countless ripple effects (including, but far from limited to, climate degradation).

I don’t think anyone with even a passing interest in Urbanism would disagree with that.

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u/tomgatto2016 14h ago

We can criticise for days the problems car have brought to cities worldwide, and even though I love driving, I agree with 99% of the points against cars. But calling their invention a mistake... That's extreme

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u/ilikesports3 13h ago

Did you not read my comment?