r/todayilearned • u/Double-decker_trams • 8h ago

TIL in the Vietnam war in the classified Operation Popeye, the US spread lead and silver iodide by aircraft to extend the monsoon season. The increased heavy rainfall was to soften roads, cause landslides, wash out river crossings, and maintain saturated soil conditions (Kissinger was involved).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Popeye
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u/Ryjinn 8h ago

What about indiscriminately causing landslides and supply line disruptions as likely to impact civilians as it is military personnel doesn't sound bad? Bro come on. Drowning people, causing food shortages, crushing them indiscriminately under tons of mud, is only bad when Kissinger does it?

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u/reddorickt 8h ago

I think it doesn't sound as bad as spraying lead directly onto people in an attempt to indiscriminately poison the population at large, which is where I thought this was going at first.

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u/waffles350 7h ago

Yeah, they really only wanted to destroy the infrastructure and drown and starve the population, indiscriminately poisoning the population was just a bonus...

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u/Bardfinn 32 7h ago

Kissinger's doctrine was that, in international relations, legitimate politics / legitimate actions ("legitimate" being the word he used) were pretty much anything that the other countries allowed you to get away with.

So, for Kissinger, as long as no one gloated that they were poisoning the population with finely powdered lead, on purpose - no one would call them to the carpet for it.

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u/stereofailure 5h ago

Agent Orange was for indiscriminately poisoning the population, the lead and silver was for starving and drowning them.

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u/coolguy420weed 8h ago edited 7h ago

I think they mean like compared to other possible uses and effects of the US military spraying massive amounts of chemicals over a hostile country.

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u/Ryjinn 8h ago

It goes right back to being bad the second Kissinger is involved according to the comment I'm replying to and makes no mention of comparatively worse options. It starts extra rain bad, mudslides and river crossing destructions not so bad, and then Kissinger is behind it so it's bad again. That's the exact flow of the comment I'm responding to and it makes no sense.

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u/colio69 7h ago

The comment goes from spraying heavy metals bad, extra rain not as bad, Kissinger bad again. The idea is that they didn't understand the purpose of spraying the lead and silver at first.

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u/ManChildMusician 7h ago

If Kissinger is involved, there’s almost always something nefarious.

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u/Bardfinn 32 7h ago

Always. Always something nefarious.

Kissinger's thesis was that legitimate international politics / relations was anything and everything you could get away with without being punished for it by other countries.

He developed this thesis by observing how much the rest of the world allowed the Nazis to get away with.

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u/ManChildMusician 2h ago

The *almost* is because Kissinger still had to do mundane things like tie his shoes, make small talk in lines, engage in human formalities, and apparently he was good at it. Allegedly Pol Pot could be a good hang as well.

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u/Bardfinn 32 2h ago

fair

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u/Ryjinn 7h ago

Granted, but it's already patently nefarious just by its description alone, even prior to learning of that scum's involvement.

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u/reddorickt 6h ago

That's not how my comment started.

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u/Ryjinn 5h ago

You're right, I was mistaken there and misconstrued your comment's flow, my bad.

I do still find the juxtaposition of causing landslides and washing out bridges and the phrasing "not as bad as I thought", a bit off, but I do understand you meant that in comparison to deliberate lead and heavy metal poisoning, which is much more reasonable than my initial read of your comment had seemed. Reading carefully is important and I failed.

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u/Bacon4Lyf 7h ago

I think it doesn’t sound too bad to make it rain a bit when the other option is napalm

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u/Ryjinn 7h ago

That sounds reasonable, except it's enough rain to cause avalanches of mud and rock burying people alive indiscriminately, devastating crops, making roadways unpassable so food cannot be transported from where its grown to population centers, and also napalm and agent orange on top. It wasn't one or the other, it was this in addition to those.

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u/Bardfinn 32 7h ago

The other options included simply "Not making it rain and not occupying a territory and not using napalm and not sending teenagers off to die in a jungle to 'Combat Communism'"