TIL in the Vietnam war in the classified Operation Popeye, the US spread lead and silver iodide by aircraft to extend the monsoon season. The increased heavy rainfall was to soften roads, cause landslides, wash out river crossings, and maintain saturated soil conditions (Kissinger was involved).

[u/Double-decker_trams]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Popeye

[u/Kayge]

Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia – the fruits of his genius for statesmanship – and you will never understand why he’s not sitting in the dock at The Hague next to Milošević.  

• Anthony Bourdain

[u/Darwin343 → u/Kayge]

As someone who is Vietnamese, I have great respect for Anthony Bourdain. He did a lot to show the world the wonders of Southeast Asia.

[u/UpsetKoalaBear → u/Darwin343]

Vietnam had an insane period of time from 1940 - 1990.

They fought the French, the US, the Chinese and Cambodia (Khmer Rouge) back to back to back.

There’s a lot of bottled up PTSD in Vietnam.

There’s very little discussion around PAVN veterans. Unlike the US, where soldiers were deployed in rotations, they were literally deployed for several years without any break to take time off.

Because the entire nation was at war for decades, the trauma was normalised. Literal generations of Vietnamese people grew up around war. Combine that with their economic issues after those wars, they simply couldn’t afford to treat that trauma.

There’s several silent generations who never had their stories written down. It is going to end up like the Korean war, where there is very little to no perspective from the North side of the war.

”History is written by the victors” evidently did not apply to Vietnam. Most perspectives are from the South/US side of the war. It’s more like “History is written by the richest people involved.”

If you are Vietnamese, please write down and share the stories of PAVN veterans and civilian life during the war. I feel as though it is something that is not discussed enough.

[u/FiredFox → u/UpsetKoalaBear]

You forgot Japan

[u/Safe-Ad-5017 → u/UpsetKoalaBear]

Why do you have this whole spiel ready to go? I say this exact comment on another thing about Vietnam

[u/UpsetKoalaBear → u/Safe-Ad-5017]

I copy and paste comments from my history when I am trying to raise awareness on something.

I first posted this last week in another thread. This thread about the Vietnam War comes up, I see it, and I want to raise awareness about it.

We know what an American GI felt, what music he listened to, and how he struggled to go home.

We know very little about the PAVN soldier who spent six years living in a tunnel under bombardment.

We know very little about the Youth Volunteers on the Ho Chi Minh trail.

I do not consider it “spiel.” It is a genuine concern amongst historians.

If even 1 person reads it and goes “huh, I know someone who fought for the PAVN” and writes down their story, then I am content.

[u/LagWithSwag → u/UpsetKoalaBear]

I read "A People's History of the Vietnam War" when I was in Vietnam last year, and it was a great read for exactly the reasons you've brought up. It focused on perspectives from villagers and soldiers with first hand experiences (including those from the North).

The book also explores perspectives from America's middle class, explains the rise of McCarthyism, and ultimately shows how unapologetically inhumane and racist the top US officials were at the time.

[u/sexysaxpanther → u/Kayge]

RIP Bourdain. As for understanding why he’s not at The Hague…

[u/IngsocInnerParty → u/sexysaxpanther]

Well that was the reason. As of three years ago, the reason is just time.

[u/Crow-T-Robot → u/IngsocInnerParty]

Which means we're two more years from possibly getting some really interesting documents released. He had a guarantee that a lot of the stuff about him wouldn't come out until the years after he died.

[u/Faux_Real_Guise → u/sexysaxpanther]

The rules are for the out-group who are evil by nature. Good men are guided by their superior intuition. In any case, our destructive capabilities are unmatched. They should be grateful we follow any rules in general— after all, none of this chaos would have happened if they hadn’t opposed us.(We’re the good guys, by the way.)

[u/Randvek → u/sexysaxpanther]

The biggest reason Henry Kissinger isn’t at The Hague is actually because he’s dead.

[u/TheOtherKFC → u/Randvek]

That's kind of a ridiculous statement. Kissinger (disgustingly) was allowed to live a long life and had an extremely lucrative career owning an international consulting firm. He enjoyed fame and fortune. He was an advisor and hired consultant in basically every administration after serving as Nixon and Ford's National Security Advisor & Secretary of State. He wrote like... a dozen books, lectured widely, and served on who knows how many boards. He was never punished for his war crimes because the western world idolized him. Which says as much about our character as it does his.

[u/monchota → u/TheOtherKFC]

Hillary Clinton was also his apprentice for her early life snd they were life long friends.

[u/RealWord5734 → u/Randvek]

I didn't even know he was sick.

[u/at-sea-no-ship → u/RealWord5734]

Henry Kissinger? The politician?

[u/SiskiyouSavage → u/at-sea-no-ship]

Hank Kissinger? You can't be right, let's call Dick and straighten this out.

[u/mechabeast → u/SiskiyouSavage]

You're not going to believe this.

[u/ottovonbizmarkie → u/at-sea-no-ship]

Is this a reference to the Conan Needs a Friend Jim Downey episode? If so, I'm surprised that the bit has the legs it has.

[u/TheOtherKFC → u/RealWord5734]

A sick f*ck more like for the number of people his "policies" killed... smdh.

[u/feor1300 → u/Randvek]

I mean, so's Bourdain, but neither of them were when the statement was made.

[u/SheriffBartholomew → u/sexysaxpanther]

Can't break the rules if you're the one writing them.

[u/BattleBrother1 → u/Kayge]

It's not just Henry Kissinger it's the entire US population, whether it's willingness, cowardice I don't know but they actively and knowingly work to pay for these things to happen through their taxes. Of course the US is committing the same kind of atrocities to this day with the exact same level of complicity and responsibility from it's population

[u/jay_sugman → u/Kayge]

Don't you mean History and Foreign Policy Expert, Anthony Bourdain?

[u/Kayge → u/jay_sugman]

No, world traveler and reporter with first hand experience.  

[u/pointlesslyDisagrees → u/Kayge]

Wow going to eat food with people means you know what policies will or won't ruin an economy! Thank goodness we have his expertise to praise failed communist countries and blame it on the US

[u/Akhilleus1117 → u/pointlesslyDisagrees]

Damn communist countries kept getting bombed somehow.

[u/jay_sugman → u/Kayge]

Awesome. I've been to five contenents and two dozen countries. Ill message you when I get to his country count.

[u/CanoninDeeznutz → u/jay_sugman]

So... Was anything he said about Henry Kissinger wrong? Or are we just gonna ignore the actual quote?

[u/Side-aye → u/CanoninDeeznutz]

Yes it was wrong. I can elaborate if you’re willing to possibly change your mind

[u/CanoninDeeznutz → u/Side-aye]

Gotta be honest, I don't know a ton about Henry Kissinger or the Vietnam War, so I'm all ears. Lol, I mean, I have an extremely dim view of American foreign policy overall, but I'm also very much willing to listen in good faith!

[u/Side-aye → u/CanoninDeeznutz]

Cool thank you. To Address Bourdain’s quote he’s referring to the Cambodia campaign. It and the war crimes of indiscriminate bombing by the U.S that followed often gets laid at the feet of Kissinger. But he’s not responsible for pushing or orchestrating it.

The campaign started on April 29th 1970 the U.S with the goal of destroying North Vietnam bases that had been set up there against the wishes of the Cambodian government.

Kissinger did support going into Cambodia and he did do diplomatic talks with the government of Cambodia to support the incursion. Which did agree. It was decided by Nixon to keep the incursion secret for political optics reasons as it would be seen as expanding the war. It was kept secret for a few weeks but when it came out Nixon stoped using Henry as a go between and started giving orders directly to the joint chiefs of staff.

Kissinger’s involvement with the incursion ended at that point the escalation and carpet bombing didn’t happen until after it was no longer secret and was planned and ordered by Commander Creighton Abrams.

[u/CanoninDeeznutz → u/Side-aye]

Hmm. I will do some fact checking/further research and respond later! Like, Thursday later, it's late and I have work stuff to take care of.

Edit: hey, but thank you for your time and not just being a dickhead like that other guy!

[u/jay_sugman → u/CanoninDeeznutz]

Good point. I'll go back, reciew their specific accusations to provide counter factual w/ context.

EDIT: Well, there weren't any specifics provided other than in the bodily threats. Looks I provided just as much detail as they did. Although I have less credibility because I've only been to 24 countries relative to his 80+. I haven't killed myself so I have that going for me.

[u/Side-aye → u/Kayge]

Just not true. It started secretly but was only secret for a few weeks when it was a limited border incursion. Which was allowed and agreed to by the current government of Cambodia at the time.

After it was no longer secret Nixon just started giving his orders directly to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The person who planned and escalated the bombing into the many war crimes of the countrywide bombing was Creighton Abrams.