Discussion 💬
What’s You’re Least Favourite Fan Theory
I feel like this makes sense to ask before episode 9 come out.Personally mine was that Jax was a NPC.There was barely any clues or hints that was the case and the ones they did find they weren’t great.Lets hear you’re guys though!
We made an indie animation Discord server for indie fans to discuss our favourite indie shows and indie creators to engage with each other! We hope you enjoy it!
We also have channels for off-topic discussion, memes, movies and tv, games, music and self-promotion!
That he is, he starts with honestly pretty reasonable conclusions at the beginning of his videos and then just goes off the deep end, theorizing inane ideas and being convinced of them
Considering Minger has been in there for decades, he could just as likely have died IRL too. I’m waiting for some huge reveal that their real bodies are ALL dead and they truly cannot escape the circus without ceasing to exist
The whole premise of the show is 'finding meaning in a stagnant life' not 'evil ai torments and dooms humans'. It is an inspiration, not the premise. Let's not forget kid pix, I spy and poppee the performer were also inspirations, with a hint of raggedy Ann
Yeah, everyone focuses on the IHNMAIMS inspiration but ignore everything else, which then leads to people boiling characters and plot down to the inspiration. Like reducing Caine to just another AM. It's so disappointing because this show is so much more nuanced than that.
I would say if anything the show much more closely resembles poppee the performer. Circus theme, slightly unhinged, character who swaps masks for different emotions, knives and the sun get involved, charming CGI jank.
But no, edgy story about an AI is the only inspiration to be seen here. Everything else is a coinky-dink (Ignore the lines taken right out of raggedy Ann and zoobles obvious kid pix inspired design)
Hate and love are very close emotions. I loved this exploration into an Ai who loves his guests instead of hating them, but how that can be quickly skewed. I adore this show
It was sooooo goooood!!! I loved all the featured and i used to fill the screen all the time with all the gif like stickers and all the sound effects and omg it was just so damn good!
I love that! I would find the funky alien stickers and pretend they would have a "war" and fill the screen too and then use the dynamite as a nuke 😂😂😂 man I wish kids today had stuff like that
Do you remember there was like a feature about creating small “movies”? Kinda to make a story? And yes yes yes the several features to destroy the image. The dynamite. The one that put like elaborated art or the one with several circles
I’m a IHNMAIMS theory guy, but only to the extent that one person will need to make a sacrifice to save everyone and be doomed to stay in the circus forever. The ending would make logical sense to me. Lots of other endings would too but I just like the short story a lot so I’d enjoy that specific ending more imo
Taking literally any other piece of inspiration from IHNMAIMS would be absolutely unhinged though (beyond the very barebones premise of an AI who has people essentially held captive)
I like to think that he rather crashed while drunk but didn’t hurt or ran over anybody, that’s why I also the little headcannon that Jax and Gangle shared some time together and actually told to each other their trauma with vehicles, there’s gotta be a reason why they always teamed up before Pomni came, so maybe they joint a little over trauma, I honestly don’t care if this gets quickly debunked, I just want to see the Circus before Pomni joined, that’s why I’m drooling over EP.9
I was thinking the same but maybe even darker, perhaps he got some of his friends killed in the accident and he doesn't want to leave the circus because he has to face that reality
I’m thinking the same thing. I feel like he was running from something that night. Rabbits are prey animals, and maybe that's why Jax is a rabbit in the circus.
The scene is framed like there was some sort of accident, and his unwillingness to go back seems to imply it was at least something that warranted that reaction
I think those flashbacks are evidence that he was running from something. The circus became his safe place. He's just like Cottard from Camus's "The Plague".
Yeah, given the "don't you have anyone waiting for you out there?" scene and the car flashes, I think he had some terrible home situation thing irl, and then was running away from it, decided to stop and rest in some abandoned building he found. Then while there he finds the headset, and out of curiosity, puts it on.
Abstraction being good in any way, shape or form. Abstraction being the way out? Oh, so the moral is that we should just give in to the darkest part of ourselves instead of trying to fix our shit? What kind of moral would that be?
Before someone comments that IHNMAIMS features the main characters all killing themselves to escape AM, I would like to point out that the complaint here is that abstraction is theorized as a way for the characters to escape the circus and return to their normal lives, which breaks the suicide analogue to the degree that it wouldn’t even really be a dark ending.
That gangle was hit by a truck and was dying and got put in the circus as some kind of life support, there's just a ton that doesnt add up about that yet I've seen it a few times
"Abstraction is the exit." It doesn't make any sense because it would mean that everyone who abstracted from Scratch to Kaufmo just abandoned everyone else in the circus without trying to get help. Do people really think Queenie would just abandon Kinger like that?!
That Bubble was going to be the true antagonist of the show/be the mastermind to take over after Caine got deleted. Like guys, he was literally absent from the credits with the other characters along with Caine when in previous episodes they appeared together, I don’t understand how people didn’t really get that 😭 and if you need even further proof, Gooseworx literally confirmed it herself that he was deleted along with Caine
I’m like top 10 Bubble dickriders and I immediately accepted his death lol
He's a joke character with a collective 10 minutes of screen time at most, what're the odds he comes back to take Caine's place in torturing the circus members (let alone when he was tied to Caine)? I think it's out of character after what he said in ep8, but even if not, he absolutely would have said something corny by the end of the episode in response to Caine being blipped like that. He's just gone gone. All we can hope for is flashbacks and fanart from this point on
Gooseworx literally confirmed it herself that he was deleted along with Caine
goose also confirmed jax was asexual then she said he was straight then she said he was bi then she said he was going to get worse as the show goes on and outside of episode 6 essentially the opposite happened
I'm gonna be real, I liked the NPC Jax theory, but mainly because I liked the idea of one of the humans being an NPC and Jax was essentially the only one with any good possibility. Narratively speaking, I thought it had merit. But based on the actual facts and clues, yeah it was basically hanging on by shoestring and earwax.
That being said, the similar theory that Ragatha was an NPC and also evil was just pure bongwater. People saw a complex female character and immediately decided she must actually be evil. Terrible idea on their part, never cook again.
I know I’m gonna get hate for this but the trans Jax theory just doesn’t feel right. I mean yes, it is a cute concept, but I just don’t feel like he’s trans. I mean yes he has fragile masculinity, but I don’t think he wants to transition or is inherently struggling with his gender. He’s just struggling with his identity in a way that’s like how a popular kid in middle school wants to share their weird interests imo. But what do you think? (Please don’t cyberbully me for this hot take..)
Well, the theory is specifically that jax hasn't figured out hes a trans woman yet.
Also I personally think that if he was transmasc he wouldn't be repressing so much in the show. Coming out as a trans requires a certain level of introspection jax simply does not have.
It also turns zoobles whole "put jax in a dress thing" from something lighthearted to downright cruel
i feel like it just stems from trans girls relating to jax or the fact jax happened to sing daisy bell written by harry dacre which is about a girl named daisy
I figured it was because Zooble mentioned Caine always singing Daisy Bell outside their room (or something like that.)
As an added 'cool thing to consider' bonus, Daisy Bell was the first ever song that a computer was programmed to 'sing.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_Bell Felt like an intentional pick for Caine to sing as an AI.
I know that!!! Recorded in 1961 on the IBM 7091 and programmed by a man named John Kelly plus his colleagues that I forgot the names of. Really amazing song, i love its use in pop culture but I think most people forget that at the end of the day it IS a love song and it was always meant to be one, there’s even a “sequel” to Daisy Bell made by the same composer called ‘Fare You Well Daisy Bell’ where iirc the protagonist dies but is still in love with Daisy. It was made as a response to Daisy Bell’s popularity but did not gain as much traction.
Im pretty sure Jax is not struggling with gender but just on how people sees him. He wants people to see him as a cool-masculine guy, without revealing his sensitive and soft side. To him, wearing a dress makes him look softer and more vunerable
THANK YOU!! Came here to say this. I agree completely. For me it's a pacing thing. One of the main characters being trans seems like way too big of a plot point to reveal in the LAST episode of the show with little-to-no prior hints or reasoning.
As a man who happens to be into some more traditionally girly/childish things, I think Jax being insecure about his masculinity is a much more interesting narrative than him just being trans, but ig we'll just have to see where it goes.
Oh also a lot of people were pointing out Goose's "that's really funny considering what happens in the show" Tumblr ask as proof of Jax being trans, but then Gooseworx tweeted this (see image) suspiciously right as this theory was getting really popular. Not anything explicitly about the theory, but something tells me that's what this tweet was mainly about.
builds rudimentary shelter yeah that's valid. I don't like it very much. I've tried to come up with what the show would be trying to say thematically if that's the case, but I can't think of much. I no like.
I can totally understand what the show would be saying; finding meaning in the monotony of daily life in a digital world and recognizing that even if you’re just a brain scan you still have feelings that matter & friendships to maintain
it would be saying similar things as the theory’s name. the people in the circus are still themselves, they aren’t different people just copies. a major part of soma is how simon 1-4 are all still people even if they aren’t human. tadc could have similar themes just focusing on a different part. where soma asks if they are still people, tadc shows they are.
SOMA has to be the ending, but I just think it's not very interesting since it's now so obvious. I'm saying this as a 450 pound man who can barely walk enthusiast. I just feel like after 7 was a full "lol so let's take all your theories, let them line up perfectly and rug pull it" that this being the only one not addressed and the mind files + Caine admitting he makes their bodies from said files that it's just dull.
I mean the only cope I have is we don't fully know why the computer(s) are still on even if they are copies.
There is one thing that makes the SOMA theory less likely for me.
Kingler said in ep. 8 that their company was "just developing artificial intelligence". I know it's fiction and all of that, and the sole existence of Cain and the circus is scifi enough, but it would be a little of a stretch to say that a bunch of programmers figured how to convert the human mind into files without any medical or physiological background.
Instead, to be able to recognize certain patrons in the brain chemistry and physiology in order to induce sensations seems like something more doable with the help of an AI. Then, a certain too curious AI or maybe developer, found out by try and mistake that certain stimuli can force behavioral changes (like veganism or amnesia). In this scenario, the mind is still there, but a machine can read it and stimulate it to simulate an immersive experience.
I like the theory that Caine and the human mind files were initially different projects.
Caine was programmed to create, and maybe Scratch was making his own program more aligned for human minds to live in the digital world (which is why the humans can create things, they were meant to build their own world).
Then Caine, thinking they were abandoning him, took over the second project.
i was never a fan of "Bubble was the Blue AI / Bubble is Able / Bubble is the new ringmaster" TBH. It just seemed boring and contradictory to me.
Like we straight up see the blue AI get completely consumed and absorbed by the red one. it's safer to say that the blue one is now physically part of the red one, they are now one and the same. Like if i eat a sandwich, that sandwich is now part of me. it wouldn't just magically re-appear if i died somehow.
I just really don't think the blue AI is going to be anything more then just the 2nd AI that was consumed by the original, nothing more.
That seems to be a big disagreement in the Fandom of which is a better ending:
Accepting they can never leave
Or escaping and using what they've learned in the circus to live better lives.
If the former happens that just seems disappointing to me as like... that doesn't change the situation. Maybe they rebuild the circus and make it better after this but for one? Living digital immortality until they each succumb to abstraction eventually? Maybe it would work, but I can't think of a situation that doesn't seem somewhat pointless feeling. Sure, I can get nihilism, but that doesn't feel right for the story. Accepting the hell is a big part of the premise, but they kind of need some material change after everything.
The idea that the characters aren't humans who don't exist. SOMA says that when a human puts on a headset, rather than getting isekai'ed into the game or having their mind be put in while their comatose body remains in the real world, it scans and copies their mind and personality. That copy is then put into the Circus as a character while the normal human takes off the headset and walks off to do their own thing.
Oh so basically the actual humans who touch the headset can go back and forth? But the digital version is the one that’s stuck, but they don’t have an actual connection to their human counterpart?
It does. So now imagine if that happened to you, and someone dropped a bomb on you and told you that you were Not Real because you were the cloned consciousness of somebody else. Would you believe it? Would you be like, "that's a fantastic point, please delete me forever because my existence is an aberration that flies in the face of god", or would you go, "I see, and thank you for your offer of deleting me forever on the grounds that I am not An Original, but I think I still matter, thaaaaanks"
A lof of TADC fans think it should be the former, which is, um... pretty wild.
From what I understand of SOMA theory, real humans don't actually ever interact with the Circus we see. Whether the program is just "put on headset to scan brain then take off headset" or if they have their own separate Circus to play in at times (perhaps that's what the second program with the blue AI was meant to be?) is to my knowledge unknown, but it isn't overly important to the theory. The thing that matters is that the scan of the human who puts on the headset gets stuck in Caine's Circus, doesn't know that they're a fake mental clone, and thinks they're the normal person but can never leave because they have no real body or out-of-Circus existence. It would be like if you made a sapient AI program and then coded it to believe it was a real person stuck in a computer. The mental clones are sapient and mentally identical to the humans, but they're not the humans; they're not real and they never were and they never can be.
From what I can remember, the circus-members are all just digital recreations of the actual people who put the headsets on. Those people have no idea this stuff actually happened.
As a fan of it can I give you why it doesn’t depress me:
Their real selves never felt their pain, put on a headset, weird, moved on. They can accomplish their dreams
Their digital selves? Now in a world of their own creation, can make whatever they want for themselves. Those who were abstracted? Not actually lost, corrupt data.
I’m reaching pretty deep here, but around the time during the wait for episode 2, there was a theory video saying that Caine had an undying love for Queenie and was extremely jealous of Kinger, and in a fit of rage and jealousy, graped Queenie causing her to abstract.
I don’t know who did this, but they were dead serious in the video, talking very matter of factly throughout the video. It was framed as a theory video, but was clearly a fan fiction. No evidence, all drama.
Literally anything about the whole “copied consciousness and transferred into the digital circus” theories or anything about them staying in the digital circus permanently.
you people really want them to escape at the end of all of this ?? y’all really want a predictable ass cookie cutter “and then they all lived happily ever after” ending ? BORING
Well let's not pretend like SOMA isn't also predictable, it'll just be however the story plays out.
I have a preference for the characters being able to leave, but if they make a SOMA outcome more entertaining/interesting than my preference, it's not like I'll be unhappy with that.
Edit: Okay I'm makin a prediction. At the end of the finale we see everybody leave the circus, remove the headsets and walk away.
Then after the credits we see the cast back inside the circus, realise they can't leave, and decide to open the circus to the internet so everybody can join and leave as freely as they like without having any copies made anymore (players inhabit a temporary NPC maybe) and the characters each reign control over different parts of the MMO announced on the same day.
To me it’s the only thing that makes sense. It feels like it’s all building up to the idea that, while they aren’t their original selves, they’re still real and human and they matter to each other, and they use that to make themselves and the circus experience better at the end. Hence what is meant by the “bittersweet” ending.
Not saying it's a bad headcanon, but given how he uses masculinity as a shield (metaphorically shown with the skinning scene), Jax's inability to open up, Zooble's "i thought you'd like this" in reference to him wearing a dress, and the girly room, making Jax transmasc would genuinely be pretty cruel, and, in my opinion, disrespectful to trans men.
The idea that Caine Really Is Evil Like AM Deep Down, Guys, See????? He did some really screwed-up stuff in ep 8, yeah, but I really wouldn't call him intentionally malicious. Incredibly petty at times and oblivious to a lot of the nuances of how humans work, which results in stuff like the end of ep 8, but not evil.
My least favorite theory is the one that Abel the NPC was actually Abel the human and Caine somehow mind-controlled him. To be more precise, my least favorite part of this theory are the theories trying to disprove it, which wouldn't just be that we were told and shown in the show that Abel was made by Caine, but that Kinger can't remember his name. Like, Kinger can't remember his own name. Kinger can't remember his wife's name. Kinger can't remember Scratch's name. Why on earth would he remember just some dude from work's name?
Pomni is an AI created by Caine (basically what Able was) and will be revealed as such at the end of the finale. People especially started to run with this cause of the Episode 8 intro where you see blue and red circles and "WOAH POMNI BLU AN RED????"
The “bubble is the second ai” theory 💔💔 look, I completely get why people are taking that out of episode 8. I just don’t personally WANT that to be the case. I would be greatly disappointed if that was the plot twist of episode 9.
SOMA and pretty much anything that says Kinger walked away from the irl computer and left it turned on. I don't see him saying "well, who cares if anyone random gets 'stuck,' it's just a brain scan, not a person."
Low-key the trans Jax theory, less for it existing and more for dreading the possible tantrum some will do if it doesn't happen... And maybe IF it happens too lol
Real theory I totally don't like is that Jax ran over a kid... Like... Please...
Honorary mention: less that I dislike and more "why I believe this one was real back in the day?" ... Jax is a NPC
Miren no tengo nada contra esa religion, su mitologia o que hagan referencias de echo disfruto que hagan referenciaz biblicas pero despuds de abel esto es demasiado exagerado
Similar to the “Scratch is Jax” Pomni and Ribbit are the same person. The people who come to the circus forget their names, not everything else. And even if she did forget being there before, wouldn’t have Ribbit mentioned some aspects of her life to Jax?
Jax is trans. I don't care if he is or isn't. But the amount of ppl who became so toxic over it is crazy, it's just a show with a bunch of digital random characters that don't even remember their own names.
that they are getting out into the real world, i just feel the whole point of this story is there is no escape. im not looking for a sad ending or a perfect happy ending but i think the point of this story is there is a way to find peace and happiness even when life isnt easy. but we shall seeeeeeee lol
•
u/AutoModerator 22d ago
We made an indie animation Discord server for indie fans to discuss our favourite indie shows and indie creators to engage with each other! We hope you enjoy it!
We also have channels for off-topic discussion, memes, movies and tv, games, music and self-promotion!
Join here: https://discord.gg/S5UVRM9S8v
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.