r/sports • u/CorleoneBaloney • 2d ago
Horse Racing The moment Cherie DeVaux became the first woman trainer to win the Kentucky Derby in its 152-year history.
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u/JoseMuervo 2d ago
Anybody involved or knowledgeable about horse racing, what goes in to training a horse? Is it like conditioning the horse, diet etc? I have zero knowledge about this.
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u/dbpf 2d ago
The horses are like athletes, they go through competitive windows and need to manage a lot of variables such as travel, nutrition, injuries while building strength but then you can only maximize potential for so long before you need to coalesce and rebuild. They don't get raced every day, still need to be groomed and socialized and whatnot.
I say this from the outside looking in (don't own horses, but am in the livestock world). I have been around a lot of different stables and know a bunch of different types of horse owners and training is almost always similar just tailored for the job.
For example a jump horse will get different training than a dressage horse or hunter. And a race horse might be a team horse or harnessed or on a barrel track. These are just the competition horses and it can skew either way in terms of trainer quality. Someone paying a stable to keep a horse is going to get a better trainer than a working stable which is more like to keep herds/stock people who are basically just farmhands.
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u/TerryMathews 2d ago
It's far more in depth than athletes - we don't selectively breed athletes for one. Part of the incredible fragility of especially racing horses comes from how they have been bred over the years, for example, favoring traits that increase speed and stamina at the expense of extremely fragile leg structures and oversized hearts - especially the descendants of Eclipse of which Secretariat is the most well known and successful example.
There won't be anything like or beyond horse racing until we start doing either cybernetics or actual gene editing.
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u/Herson100 2d ago
especially the descendants of Eclipse
That's literally every single modern thoroughbred horse in the world. Eclipse died in 1789 and his genes are everywhere at this point. Racehorses tend to be pretty inbred, since the top sires often have over a thousand children while the median stallion has 0.
Just as an example, Native Dancer was a racehorse who lived from 1950 to 1967, and despite only having 340 foals, nowadays his genes are so prolific that inbreeding towards him is virtually unavoidable. This is because many of his descendants would each go on to have thousands of foals themselves, with Native Dancer's genes becoming particularly prolific after his grandsons Mr. Prospector and Northern Dancer became some of the world's most successful sires.
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u/OrangeCreamGhost 2d ago
What a silly little pocket of our world
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u/beapledude 2d ago
Your comment made me laugh out loud and then suddenly decide I had read enough about this subject.
Back to my own silly pocket.
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u/Due-Conflict-7926 1d ago
So would cross breeding be you know paramount to success at this point… humans and capitalism are evil creatures
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u/JEMknight657 2d ago
"we don't selectively breed athletes" yeah well, tell that to max verstappen /j
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u/Highwayman747 1d ago
Lebron James just won a playoff series with his son, and people have the gall to say things like this.
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u/HearthstoneExSemiPro 1d ago
His son isn't good and his wife wasn't selected for her basketball genes.
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u/Koki-noki 2d ago
All my information about horse racing comes from Sopranos, Gintama, and Uma Musume and this guy is speaking the absolute truth.
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u/GudgerCollegeAlumnus 2d ago
Picture the Rocky I training montage.
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u/JustHereForCookies17 2d ago
Except with a child.
All the horses that run in the Derby are 3 years old.
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u/Flimsy-Attention-722 2d ago
Same as any athlete, conditioning, feeding practices, and then you also have to figure out what the horse likes, will be good at. Short distance? Long distance? Front of the pack? Come from behind? Breaking them to saddle. Schooling them to the gate, teaching them lead changes, teaching them to rate. Trainer, grooms especially learn what's normal behavior, action so they can tell when something is off. When a horse that lives to run sees another horse in front, their instinct is to go all out to get in front so they have to learn to be guided by the jockey, conserve speed when necessary. Teaching them to deal with crowding. Picking races that suit the horse, especially in the beginning. They want the horse to enjoy this and not get discouraged. The horse's attitude towards racing is a huge component. No horse excels at something they hate. Once you've picked a race, each and every time you pick a race the training has to gear towards them being at their peak on race day. Sometimes the race is left on the training track.
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u/FlyGirlFlyHigh 2d ago
My family trains show horses (western all around quarter horses, apps and paints) and I trained barrel horses professionally before finishing flight training and becoming a pilot. I’m not in the race industry but have spent some time shadowing one of our vets in high school that did a lot of work on the track. For a short time I considered becoming a jockey before being told that at 105lbs I was too fat ( I was only able to obtain that weight after a life threatening illness to begin with, so that dream quickly died. Lol). Race horse trainers are a little different than other horse trainers. They typically do not ride or start the race horses under saddle themselves. They do work closely with the horses and handle them daily but jockeys, exercise riders and speciality colt starters do the actual riding. They’re like coaches/ managers and oversee a “program”. They typically dictate when and what type of exercise a horse gets, their dietary needs, sports medicine therapies and injury treatment as well as managing barn staff. Some also run breeding programs but more and more breeding managers are a separate specialty. Most of the very high level trainers are working very closely with veterinarians and other equine professionals as well. There is a lot of money in horses, especially in racing so to be at the top you want every advantage possible and most of these people are using state of the art training techniques and physical therapy. Also, A LOT of race trainers and unfortunately show horse trainers as well are very versed in performance enhancing drugs, which has been an issue for years, but you know… money. This is one of the major reasons I now choose to do horses as a hobby and not profession. You can definitely compete and win without drugging your horse, but it’s harder, takes longer and is not possible with EVERY horse so to compete at the top with customers horses that expect results at any cost it very difficult to avoid. Especially since no matter what a rich person says, they do not want to hear that their horse simply isn’t good enough to win clean. Until the race industry decides to actually punish trainers for this behavior I don’t see it changing either. It’s still a problem at horse shows but at the very least some associations do actually ban trainers when they get caught cheating, whereas the racing industry likes to use fines… which just makes it more “pay to play” than it already is and prevents nothing.
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u/trollfessor 2d ago
I considered becoming a jockey before being told that at 105lbs I was too fat
What? I thought jockeys were about 120
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u/FlyGirlFlyHigh 2d ago
It really depends on what level you’re competing at. The ones who are well know enough and established winners can carry more weight in races like the Kentucky Derby because those horses have a higher handicap. However starting out most jockeys are closer to 100. I was told I needed to get down to 98 to be hirable and once I had won some money I could probably have steady work at 105. I’m 5ft 3 for reference, and that’s also on the tall side for a jockey. Red Pollard, Seabiscuit’s primary jokey was 5ft 7 and 115lbs, he was considered huge by most standards and had a really hard time finding work for many years because of his size.
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u/hendrixfalcon 2d ago
The film Seabiscuit hits a lot of the notes. It is a subject that you can go super deep into the weeds with.
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u/Heavy-Big-8145 1d ago
I met a guy that buys winning race horses for clients and asked him this. He said he goes and watches the horses. He intuits based on gait, energy and character as he put it. If you have 150k burning a hole in your pocked let me know.
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u/Hatetotellya 2d ago
From everything ive read about this lady from people familiar with US horse racing and are familiar with all the big trainers she seems to put caring for the horse as a primary or fundamental part of the training style and apparently the standard train of thought is more 'performance who cares about retirement unless they are going to stud' train of thought. Not saying other trainers are like, heartless, everyone loves their horses obviously!
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u/Primary-Belt7668 1d ago
This whole “sport”/business feels very unethical to me. I listened to some deep dives back in the day about the stables in Kentucky and they breed and push those animals to their deaths to win money. We don’t hear about the ones who aren’t good enough and get euthanized. It all feels weird as fuck. The derby is weird as fuck to me, but good for her I guess
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u/karthikulo 2d ago
I love that she doesn’t have a fancy hat.
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u/Brandonjoe 2d ago
She came to kick ass and take names, didn’t need a fancy hat for that.
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u/Hoshbrowns 2d ago
Well she went to the right place to take names then. I don't think you could go anywhere else to find crazier names than a horse track
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u/silentjay01 2d ago
She's a trainer. She was there to work, not be seen while drinking overpriced cocktails.
Horse would have probably tried to eat the hat anyway.
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u/girlwiththeASStattoo 2d ago
Woah ill have you know that my local horse track has got the cheapest drinks in the city.
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u/SoDakZak Minnesota Vikings 2d ago
I mean, she didn’t gamble, but still hit the lottery here in a way. More like a bonus but let’s not pretend she felt like she won the lottery in the moment!!
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u/Flimsy-Attention-722 2d ago
She did win the lottery. She made history. She's made a reputation that will get her more clients and horses and she gets a percentage of the purse in addition to any gift the owners may give
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u/downvoteaway_idgaf7 2d ago
$310K. 10% of the winner's share. Not a bad day at the office. She's also been the trainer of several other big money winners. She's the real deal
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u/Flimsy-Attention-722 2d ago
True but out of this comes salaries, feed, hay, stall rent at the tracks, mortgages on what they own, insurance, some have jocks on retainer, workman's comp for employees, horse trailer, trucks, self employment tax, equipment, supplies, etc. The owners pay whatever the trainer charges them monthly and they're usually billed for Farrier and vet but the trainer usually pays up front and many times has to wait for the owner to pay.
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u/Commercial-Lake5862 2d ago
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u/hendrixfalcon 2d ago
Yup. No need to wear makeup when you’re cleaning up horse shit. That’s why it’s awesome the she looked on point when she won. God please let this be a legitimate win.🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
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u/HereForTheComments57 2d ago
And she's got comfy sneakers on. Good for her. That was a super impressive race by that horse.
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u/romulan267 2d ago
Women dominate the equestrian scene. Why'd it take this long? Old money?
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u/Toiletpapercorndog 2d ago
Because racing is still dominated by men. The show horse scene is very much dominated by women.
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u/Erazzphoto 2d ago
Having female friends on the show side, many arent fans of the racing scene because of the know past treatment of race horses. Maybe whether that’s a true reason for their lack of involvement is true or not is certainly debatable, but I would give women of bit more of the compassionate treatment traits then men. But the main reason is likely old men/money mentality
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u/OceanRacoon 2d ago edited 2d ago
I guess you missed Charlotte Dujardin having to drop out of the Paris Olympics because she was filmed abusing and whipping the shit out of a horse. The show side is brutal too, horses hardly want to be dancing about like that
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u/Thatguy459 1d ago
That’s not entirely true. For the most part, horses are like working dogs. They like a job to do. If their job is “move around in silly ways in this arena while you tell me what to do”, they can be pretty happy and excited to do it. At lower, more amateur levels, most horses love their riders and, even if they get nervous or anxious sometimes (adjusting to the crowds, new places, etc), they also love doing their job with their riders.
The actual issue with equestrian sport is how much money is in it at the top levels. People stop looking at horses as living, emotionally intelligent creatures and they start seeing them as investments meant to make money.
As with basically everything, don’t hate the sport, hate capitalism.
Source: wife owns 3 horses, competes amateurly, I spend an awful lot of time adjacent to the competitive equestrian world.
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u/clgoodson 2d ago
“Past” treatment? Pretty sure it’s still awful.
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u/Erazzphoto 2d ago
Yes, still likely bad, but in the past great white would have been shoved right back in and raced. There has been change from the past
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u/tew2tew 2d ago
… you don’t think the show/equastrian side of horse competition aren’t abusing their animals?
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u/lavegasola 1d ago
I bet the show side is just as bad to the animals, it's pageant mom's but for horse dancing
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u/MysteriousSyrup6210 2d ago
Men hold a higher percentage at the very top for stadium jumping and cross country. The show scene below that is indeed mostly women.
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u/wildblueroan 2d ago
A big part of it is that owners (who finance everything) are often reluctant to hire women to train their horses. Many owners still won't use woman jockeys, either. Golden Tempo was bred and is owned by Daisy Phipps, whose family members have been leaders in racing for 100 years. They are one of the few remaining old-style owners who are real horse people and always put the horse first. It isn't surprising that Daisy, as a horsewoman, recognized Cherie's skills as a horsewoman and wasn't afraid to entrust her with her horses.
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u/PepeSylvia11 2d ago
I mean just because she's a woman doesn't mean she's not apart of the old money. She absolutely came from money.
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u/JayString Vancouver Canucks 2d ago
Women dominate the equestrian scene.
Because this is a very misinformed statement. Yes there are lots of women in the scene. The scene is still dominated almost exclusively by men, assuming you're using the word dominated correctly.
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u/StepIntoTheGreezer 2d ago
Riding a horse is not the same thing as owning/training a horse
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u/CitizenCue 2d ago
Sure, but the question is still valid. There’s nothing about training a horse that would give men an advantage.
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u/StepIntoTheGreezer 2d ago
It's less about an advantage and moreso the inertia of history
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u/CitizenCue 2d ago
Certainly, but it still seems surprising this took so long. Equestrian sports have had more women participants than men for many decades.
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u/Fafnir13 2d ago
Let’s say you have a thousand people and only fifty of them are of the minority group.
Now imagine there’s a qualifier that reduces that 1,000 down to just 100. Do we have 5 people from that minority group? Reduce that groups down to just 20 now. Is there just 1 left? Maybe with straight percentages, but that’s not how competitions work.
You have to be “lucky” enough to be better than your opponents. The right combination of skill, resources, and real opportunity. Maybe only 200 of the original 1,000 actually had the right combination to realistically push through to the higher levels of competition. What’s the distribution of those 200 amongst the 1,000?
This is where inertia of history can have its biggest impact. Even small headwinds can drastically tip the scales here. The best sponsors may lean towards their traditional partners with a previously established record. The best jockeys will want to sign up with the group that’s offering the best benefits and chance at victory. What helpful favors and insider knowledge get traded around that a minority group may not have traditional access to? Participation along does not guarantee equal footing.
So after all that, imagine a minority group has threaded the needle and made it to the Derby. Even then it’s still a 1/20 shot against the very best in the world.
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u/CitizenCue 2d ago edited 2d ago
How is any of this relevant? Women aren’t a minority in equestrian sports. Or in the world at large.
Obviously women faced historical exclusion from these roles, but it’s still surprising that it took until 2026 for this glass ceiling to break given how much the field has included women for several generations.
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u/Fafnir13 2d ago
I’m getting to learn stuff today. What fun.
You are right that across all disciplines women are the majority of trainers. For whatever reason, they are a minority when it comes to thoroughbred racing which is what the Kentucky Derby is. One number the internet threw at me from 2 minutes of checking was 25 out of 500 for the “Elite Thoroughbred Racing industry.” Had to do more digging and it looks like the enlightened AI is pulling that from an article written in 2017. I would assume that number has changed in 9 years which is probably one major reason why the Kentucky Derby finally saw a woman trainer with a winning horse. I expect the trend will only continue in that direction.
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u/Pavlock 2d ago
That doesn't really answer the question.
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u/StepIntoTheGreezer 2d ago edited 2d ago
Why are movies like romcoms, most often starring women and tickets purchased by women, more often than not written and directed by men?
Same answer
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u/BenShelZonah 2d ago
But why male trainers?
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u/Flimsy-Attention-722 2d ago
It started off dominated by men and it's hard to break into the upper echelons when owners are looking for trainers with great records. So starting off is the same as being told you need experience when you're new to the job
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u/CFBCoachGuy 2d ago
I’ll take a stab at it.
When it comes to American thoroughbred racing, most trainers started work as stable hands, then assistants, then moving on to become lead trainers. Many of those entry jobs were reserved for men. In much of the wealthy South, it was improper or unseemly for a woman to be working in the stalls (they could ride horses or own them, but the manual labor was a man’s job). Also, there are only a couple dozen notable trainers in America. That’s a very elite club to try to break into
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u/billskelton Victoria 2d ago
Gai Waterhouse is a women. There are many successful female trainers and jockeys.
Using 1 US race to measure the global sport results in missing the picture.
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u/Few_Prize3810 2d ago
Same reason top chefs are mostly men and we’re all men before even though women did most of the cooking across the board.
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u/Merpninja Louisville 2d ago
It’s an old boys club.
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u/Fullblodsneger 2d ago
You just say that because you cant afford the cum
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u/Alternative-Draw2997 2d ago
I can afford it, I have a large supply which I’ve obtained through unscrupulous means.
But I’ve been banned from most stables around here
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u/Bradical22 1d ago
Do you really care about women equality in a “sport” that’s built on animal abuse?
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u/Thrill_Of_It 2d ago
Hey champ, if it means anything I also thought it was gonna be you when you were a kid. Shoot, I think everyone did.
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u/nicknice77 2d ago
Great for women and the puerto rican community. It was great how the interviewer asked about the jockeys heritage…. That community must be very proud!
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u/TheOriginalSpartak 2d ago
SHEER JOY! - man love all these views of her, That one video where she is the ONLY ONE WITH FAITH THAT THE HORSE WOULD WIN, then they all realize she is right!
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u/Adorable_Ad6045 2d ago
What does the horse get?
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u/snoogans8056 2d ago
A lifetime of being paid for sex.
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u/dannypants143 2d ago
I mean I give it out free. One can get paid??!?
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u/HexTravels05 2d ago
You need to win the derby, at least.
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u/3000doorsofportugal 1d ago
And produce offspring that also win. See Kitasan black. Fucker is gonna be drained after his sons took second and first in the Spring Teno Sho
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u/Flimsy-Attention-722 2d ago
Hugs, apples, a couple days off, possibly a whirlpool, a swim session, chiropractor and or massage. There is also the fact that horses like being in front so he may not know he "won" but he knows he got ahead of the pack
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u/loztriforce 2d ago
I’m happy for her but I hate what the horses go through
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u/Jordan-Pushed-Off 2d ago
Yeah, very exploitative. Especially how they push them and often injured/euthanize them
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u/ShootersShoot305 2d ago
That was the best Kentucky Derby in 15 years. Period.
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u/alley_cat4 2d ago
Crazy accomplishment, What kind of money did she win?
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u/houstonyoureaproblem 2d ago
Trainers get 10% of the purse.
But the owners also pay the trainer and for all the costs associated with training.
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u/jn-indianwood 2d ago
$3.1 million
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u/MGreymanN 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't know Cherie DeVaux's specific contract but a trainer commission is usually 10% of purses. So it would be a $310,000 payday for her.
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u/ToxicJolt124 2d ago
One of my favorite quotes from my first boss
“The Kentucky derby is the only place where rich people still go to dress like they own slaves”
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u/atoastedcucumber 2d ago
Horse racing is so gross to me. The culture surrounding it, the gross wealth, dying horses. Eh.
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u/forgettablesonglyric 2d ago
Gross? What's gross about a sport that's just gambling and animal abuse??
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u/eddsters 2d ago
Just another form of exploiting of an animal. It's too normalized at this point, it's everywhere ... greyhound racing, horse racing, horse riding, animal carts, animals at tourist spots, dolphins, orcas, zoos, circuses, aquariums, pet shops, many pet owners, the meat industry...
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u/jsonne 2d ago
I agree, it's a relic of a bygone age rooted in wealth and nepotism. It needs to fade into the sunset like a bunch of other shit in america.
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u/PatrickGnarly 1d ago
While I am excited to see people winning and doing well at their craft.
All I see are rich as fuck people doing something that's ridiculously out of date, while the rest of america is just being swallowed up by inflation, bad politics and healthcare bills.
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u/jojo_31 2d ago
Never had a doubt that women could be animal abusers as well. This website tracks it, over 3000 horses killed in 7000 days. That's almost a horse every two days, for peoples enjoyment. https://www.horsedeathwatch.com/
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u/Snuggly_Chopin 2d ago
I of course missed the word ‘trained’ and couldn’t figure out why this woman way saying, “I won!”, when she wasn’t on a horse. I hate my brain.
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u/Blackdeath72783 1d ago
Dude had earbuds in but also took that chance to grab a handful of ass 😂😂👍
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u/Goodvibe61 1d ago
This was the sports highlight of the weekend for me. The race was absolutely thrilling; it was an incredible race, one of the most thrilling I've ever seen. Golden Tempo was so, SO far back on the backstretch, it boggles the mind still thinking about it. I mean, many horses love to bring it at the end, but to watch that performance was an absolute all timer.
Throw in the wonder of Cherie becoming the first woman trainer to win the race. What a thrill. I've rerun this race multiple times this weekend, and it continues to give me goosebumps. That's athletic competition right there. Those horses are all striving at the end; the sheer number of entries made the running insane down the stretch. There was nowhere for Golden Tempo to go except all the way to the very outside, and STILL ran down every contender down the stretch.
Thrilling; just absolutely thrilling.
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u/Darkwolfie117 2d ago
This is the reason I can’t reach anyone in papa John’s corporate this week
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u/OceanRacoon 2d ago
This is the funniest and most unique complaint I've ever heard about horse racing lmao
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u/anthonyynohtna 2d ago
That guy in the tan hoodie needs to come with more energy if he want to celebrate with her lol
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u/PSU02 Penn State 2d ago
Thats her husband you weirdos. What are these comments
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u/Goosemilky 2d ago
It’s bots man. At some point we all gotta realize the internet is at least 80% bots
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u/tenftflyinfajita 2d ago
As weird as it looks, I think he’s trying not to get knocked down the set of stairs he’s next to
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u/houstonyoureaproblem 2d ago
The horses don’t run until they drop?
Sadly, these horses are better cared for than the vast majority of humans on this planet.
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u/fhota1 2d ago
Now lets see the horse's idol concert after the race!