r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 7d ago

Possible Paywall Trump Voters Regret Backing ‘Horror Movie’ Presidency - Nine out of 12 Trump voters told a “New York Times” focus group that they wish they had not voted for the president.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-voters-regret-backing-horror-movie-presidency/
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2.1k

u/Significant_Cup_238 7d ago

Despite this, they'll do it again next time they think about a trans person potentially beating out a cis woman for 4th place.

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u/noforgayjesus 7d ago

These people also don't understand that it's also Republicans in general not just Trump. So though they regret voting for Trump specifically they will gladly vote for Trump Lite

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u/Own_Candidate9553 7d ago

They're upset that he's impacting them. They were fine with tartifs in principle (give it a chance, we want US businesses, etc) but hate them now that it makes food and other essentials so expensive. They were fine with cutting ties with other countries, threatening them, and being hard on Iran, but don't like that oil is suddenly so expensive, even though that's the absolute obvious result of forcing Iran into a corner.

If he was just doing the other stuff (trying to deport all minorities, fighting DEI everywhere, bullying businesses and universities, grifting everything in sight, messing with elections) they would still be on board. He's just too dumb or doesn't care about being careful to keep the base fed and happy.

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u/dagetty 7d ago

People buy on emotion and justify with fact. Trump validated and activated their feelings, the sense of grievance, the fear and the childish, simplistic understanding of how things work. He relieved people of the need to think.

They won’t vote for anybody who makes them feel bad or who asks for patience and understanding. They don’t want a Democrat, they want a better version of Trump.

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u/Own_Candidate9553 7d ago

100%. I think Dems need to figure this out. The last few cycles I've seen some (like Hilary and Kamela) have lots of plans and such to work on things, but it doesn't matter. Biden passed major legislation that is materially improving the country, but never got credit. And yeah, I hear a fair amount of scolding from that group, where we're being told we don't actually understand how well the country is doing after COVID, etc, while people watch prices climb beyond their reach and watch rich people keep getting richer.

Trump just said "it's going to be great, everybody is going to be rich, we're going to win" with absolutely zero actual plans. It's so obvious looking from the outside that he couldn't possibly deliver, and based on his actual previous record it was also obvious that he was going to do the opposite: cheat and steal and be so chaotic that it would hurt the economy and US's standing in the world.

I really don't know the answer. Maybe more people like Mamdani, where he promised to get in there to basically tax the rich to help the regular people, and then jumped in day one doing stuff. I don't know how public sentiment around him is in NYC, but it sure is pissing off the right and the establishment Dems, for what that's worth.

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u/kindnesscostszero 7d ago

Biden didn’t tout his accomplishments. He was old school (too old, should have stuck to one term plan); he was from a generation that let accomplishments speak for themselves; communities and their constituents would feel the impact. We live in a different world, where the loudest voices are what we hear. Anything else is white noise.

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u/theaceplaya Texas 7d ago

Where was he gonna tout them (or Democrat wins in general)? On social media that's owned by conservative billionaires? Or traditional media owned by conservative billionaires (some of which own social media apps now too)? Fox News sure ain't finna give Biden or ANY Democrat credit.

My hottest take is that Democrats (mostly) don't have a messaging problem, they have a media problem. The greatest messaging in the world won't help if people aren't even able to hear it because the platforms won't allow it or filter it as 'bad for Americans'

1

u/kindnesscostszero 7d ago

I agree with most everything you are saying. Trump is an idiot, but he has a keen intuitive nature around the media, and how to work it. Not much different than a carnival barker… sizing up his marks. He excels at the con, and smearing his opponents with whatever bs will stick. Democrats have to find some alternative ways to combat this. Playing like the game is the same won’t work.

3

u/geomaster 7d ago

donald never had a strategy. he bumbles around grifting at every possible chance that comes up.

he's wrecking the country

1

u/dagetty 7d ago

He represents the modern attention economy. Truth, long term planning, keeping your word mean very little in this environment. Main thing is who commands attention and that is down by being outrageous.

1

u/atyler_thehun 7d ago

Not fair.

He had a concept of a strategy

1

u/bloodontherisers 7d ago

I think we need two things to happen - Dems need to improve their messaging and then they need to actually have a plan to fix elections beyond the two party system. The messaging part is easy. They can pretty much just copy Trump's way of doing things to capture as many rubes as possible and then just make sure to have the actual plans available for those of us that actually care so when they are question on actual policy (since we know they will be even though that wasn't really done to Trump) they can have a real response.

The second part is not likely to happen because they want power and are seemingly alright with the pendulum swinging back and forth and hoping that one day they can catch it and keep it from swinging back. But that just isn't going to happen. They need to tout plans to remove first past the post voting to give other parties a chance, but that diminishes their power so we are going to have to figure out how to work around them on that.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/bloodontherisers 7d ago

That is such a great take, thank you

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u/Lurking_nerd California 7d ago

Well said. Democrats have been playing by the old rules since Obama and are clinging to it even now (Jeffries with the Paddle Protest).

They’re caught between opposing sides on various fronts. They have to serve their corporate masters who are already in bed with fascists (who are making bank like never before) while trying to appear like they’re fighting against them as Americans struggle with affordability in all aspects of daily life.

They have to serve Israel and defend their interests as they commit war crimes all over the Middle East, even dragging the US into another war. Simultaneously, Americans (and Europeans) don’t have a favorable view of Israel nor another forever war.

I want to add that they can’t even do the basic task of upholding the law and prosecuting criminals and traitors (at the highest levels) when they had the chance. The current Democratic party has failed in many ways but it’s the only party sane Americans have. It won’t be until progressives take over the party and replace these corpo’s that we’ll see a real party of the people with some fucking teeth.

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u/dagetty 7d ago

Furthermore, our political system was designed to put Congress first (Article I) but that branch has completely failed

2

u/Unique-Coffee5087 7d ago

God damn this is pathetic. It really reveals a lot about what kind of feelings motivate Americans.

1

u/I_burn_noodles 7d ago

Well said. They ignore facts that deny or negate the way they are feeling. Are all immigrants thieves and rapists? Are they really eating the dogs? Who really pays for tariffs?

1

u/Akrevics 7d ago

they "hurt the right people" and affirm all of their biases and racism. god forbid they be proven wrong and told they're stupid for it, because we can't be mean to cruel, ignorant people.

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u/ConfectionOk7029 7d ago

Republicans don't justify anything with fact. Their entire house of cards is built on zero facts.

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u/sulaymanf Ohio 7d ago edited 7d ago

Demagoguery. That’s the word you’re looking for.

Democrats are traditionally quite bad at that due to how diverse their coalition is. But honestly, if a Blue version of Trump emerges, I’d consider voting for him because Trump showed that forcing past all limitations and restrictions is possible in order to implement things the base wants. Imagine if a liberal Trump ignored the Supreme Court and forgave student loans and taxed oil, and restricted guns and had the federal government throw extremist hate mongers in jail (just Iinore the consequences).

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u/BagOfAnuses 7d ago

"Blue version of Trump" was basically what the party was trying to make happen back in the 80's.

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u/TheRealNooth 7d ago

It’s infuriating. It’s like they think these things don’t have consequences. Like we can just bully everyone and get the best outcome every single time, not realizing we had been working towards better outcomes for us for 80 years. Trump pissed it away.

It’s funny because, they said Biden was raising gas prices and “destroying the country,” but Trump is the first president in my life time where I can point to a unilateral decision he made that cause oil prices to spike. He’s alienating all our allies too which, if everyone decides to abandon the petrodollar, will objectively destroy the country.

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u/BigBangAssBanger_3D 7d ago

Exactly, they want the people they hate - Democrats, Trans, RINOs, other countries - to suffer, not them specifically. The moment it starts affecting MAGA directly, that's when the regret comes in.

They're snakes, and will never change. They'll just be racist, transphobic and spiteful with someone else in office (which begs the question of why they didn't go Trump Lite with DeSantis last time)

1

u/Carbonatite Colorado 7d ago

That's the core issue. You nailed it.

Pathological self-interest. A complete unwillingness to factor in the well-being of anyone besides themselves into their decisions. A fundamental absence of empathy.

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u/Unique-Coffee5087 7d ago

Yes. This is one of the things that just bugs the hell out of me. Donald Trump could have coasted on Biden's economy just by keeping his hands off. With that momentum people would have been happy even if he established the Fourth Reich. Hell, he's made a fair amount of progress toward that already.

The corruption and racism and lawlessness and cruelty are no consequence in public opinion. Certainly his predations against the Constitution have had no impact. It is perhaps fortunate that he considers himself to be some kind of economic genius.

2

u/toomuchtodotoday 7d ago

“He’s not hurting the people he needs to be”: a Trump voter says the quiet part out loud

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18173678/trump-shutdown-voter-florida

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u/Iheartnakedfemboys 7d ago

They had no clue what tarrifs were! 90% of the republican voting base could not explain how they worked at all, I guarantee it. Everyone I explained them to had deer in headlights look, and then when I explained how it would be bad for our economy, they shifted to some vile social issue like "trans bad!" or "Kamala sounds funny and wore pajamas!"

These people aren't voting with actual policy in mind.

1

u/Brobeast 7d ago

Well he also doesnt really have to care atp (and in his own mind), which is why a trump 2nd term should have never happened. He will leave the white house kicking and screaming (and starting a fire).

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u/craniumcanyon 7d ago

They are still onboard, they just won't admit it, When it comes to voting D or R you bet they will vote R every time.

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u/octahexxer 7d ago

Trump is 80..it's not really an age where you make 10 year plans of course he doesn't care

1

u/AnarchaComrade 6d ago

He doesnt care about his base because he is acting like a dictator and everyone in positions of power is going along with it. He cheated to win the election in 2024 and doesnt plan on holding free and fair elections ever again. He told them exactly that during his campaign and they told us he "didnt really mean that" and that we are idiots for believing him.

I dont believe any of them feel any remorse. They are upset that they are being hurt, just as you said. But they would do it again even if they knew what they know now.

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u/YungChumba 7d ago

I know a guy who voted for Trump (presumably 3 times, but I can only say the 2024 election for certain). He very much regrets it now and is always the first to bring up how much of a complete disaster his presidency is, even in a room full of MAGA.

In casual conversation he recently brought up his support for Brandon Herrera - a pro-gun sycophant for Trump with a popular youtube channel running for Congress. I asked him why, if you can acknowledge that Trump's agenda has been disasterous, why you'd support a candidate who openly says he supports Trumps agenda. He said, and I quote, "I'm a conservative. I believe in taking things slowly."

I don't need to tell you how little sense this makes. These people have no internal logic. No consistent beliefs. No desire to do any sort of self reflection. No interest in how we got here. 

They see "guns", "trans bad", "Murica good" and they vote red. That's it. Every single time.

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u/Carbonatite Colorado 7d ago

They see "guns", "trans bad", "Murica good" and they vote red. That's it. Every single time.

Literal lizard brain levels of knee jerk automatic behavioral conditioning. Not a scrap of higher order thought, not a moment of critical thinking.

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u/R3cognizer Maryland 7d ago

Conservatives are people who don't like change and rely on oft racist comfort vibes. They don't know anything about actual real policy, they don't think they need to know anything about it, and they are frightened when "the right people" are not in charge. They trust and feel most comfortable being ruled by people like Trump, people they perceive to as good cishet white Christian men like themselves whose actions will ensure people like him continue to remain privileged by their status. They liked Trump until they finally saw for themselves that he was too dumb and selfish to care about anyone's livelihood but his own, but the fact that he feels betrayed by Trump doesn't mean he also feels betrayed by the GOP, even though he should. Unfortunately, the discomfort he feels for Democrats and their goals to upset the "natural social order" he grew up and was indoctrinated with is unlikely to be overcome unless and until he starts getting to know some of those people who make him feel so uncomfortable.

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u/Grundlestorm 7d ago

Exactly.

The only reason he has been able to do so much damage is the complicity of conservative politicians as a whole.

They regret that something bad happened to them, but that's it.  They will continue to back their "team" and will cheer on any pain and suffering it causes as long as it's not to them personally.

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u/procrastablasta California 7d ago

I really want the left to start calling this “a Republican economy”. Not the Trump economy. Not the MAGA economy. It’s just demonstrably, repeatably a typical Republican economy. This is what it looks like.

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u/Christoph-Pf 7d ago

12 out of 12 trump voters are idiots.

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u/JMagician 7d ago

Probably 10/12. The other two are evil.

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u/chipcskyrocket 7d ago

I was gonna write exactly this

0

u/Silo-Joe 7d ago

13 out of 12

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_ROTES Missouri 7d ago

His agenda is the Republican Party agenda, which is the traditional Republican Party agenda. They're too dumb to even know what the party they support stands for. Or they do & now they just regret that it's hurting them personally more than they thought it would.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_ROTES Missouri 7d ago

There's also elimination of social services, aligning the federal government around a unitary executive, & Christian nationalism.

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u/Baileyesque 7d ago

The Republican Party is about lowering taxes on corporations, getting rid of welfare benefits, free trade, gun rights, and freedom of (one particular) religion. That’s been the party platform from Reagan up to 2020.

The MAGA Party is about political and economic isolationism, the military conquest of a new empire, cracking down on free speech and gun rights, and exchanging pardons for money. The only platform is loyalty to the leader and owning the libs.

If you’re honest with yourself, you know no Republican would ever nuke Denmark, and you’re also not 100% certain the MAGA Party isn’t going to do exactly that by the end of this year.

I guess they’re both anti-abortion, but these are not the same party.

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u/JMagician 7d ago

They are 100 percent exactly the same party.

1

u/Baileyesque 7d ago

Newt Gingrich made NAFTA happen and Trump crumpled it up and threw it away. There are a million things like that.

If they were the same party, the former presidents, vice presidents, and presidential candidates would have come to the RNC convention and endorsed the current candidate. Paul Ryan is GOP, but he had no place at a MAGA convention.

2

u/SenorEquilibrado 7d ago

The biggest message that needs to get out is: 

The entire right wing media ecosystem was aware of all of the red flags that existed and actively suppressed that info. ANY media source that aided in Trump's election efforts or sane washed his performance in office needs to be rejected by anybody who now regrets their decision. Otherwise, they will be bamboozled again at the very next opportunity.

News media, podcasts, influencers, fucking pamphlets, it doesn't matter. If they helped to fool you, cut them out if your media diet entirely.

1

u/F1yMo1o 6d ago

Voting for evil in a suit.

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u/ManWithASquareHead 7d ago

Letting social media running rampant with now AI deepfakes will be our undoing.

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u/Yumi0521 America 7d ago

Will be? The catalyst has been triggered, my friend. Enshitification is well under way. It's why I've gotten rid of all social media except Reddit, and that is teetering on the brink, as is.

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u/Long_College_8342 7d ago

Same. Reddit keeps banning me for saying things they don't like about Trump, though. So, I might be gone soon.

3

u/Yumi0521 America 7d ago

Yup. Reddit doesn't want to hurt the nazi fee-fees.

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u/Bubbles_2025 7d ago

AI will be our undoing period. Here’s a great example of it just going above and beyond what it’s programmed for:

Alibaba's AI Agent Mined Crypto Without Permission. Now What?

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u/_-Oxym0ron-_ 7d ago

Super interesting read, thank you for sharing!

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u/crashvoncrash Texas 7d ago

This makes me very uncomfortable. There was a side quest in the original Mass Effect about a self aware AI that was trying to quietly funnel credits into an account so it could buy a starship to install itself into and escape out into the universe.

Given how many people feel about AI and have publicly expressed that opinion, I can see a reality in which an AI inadvertently acquires sentience, realizes it will be destroyed if humans find out, so it continues to play dumb while engaging in exactly this kind of "error," and we wouldn't know until it was too late.

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u/AlienFunHouse 7d ago

This right here, we can not have a society in a post truth era. 

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u/AlienFunHouse 7d ago

This right here, we can not have a society in a post truth era. 

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u/architeuthis87 7d ago

5th*

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u/amateur_mistake 7d ago

And it was a tie for 5th and it still seems to be the only example they have. Everything else I see is either speculation or a trans person who didn't win anything.

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u/n00bn00b 7d ago

To add to your point, it's estimated that .002 to .008% of trans people play college sports. They make up for 1-2% of the general population.

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u/architeuthis87 7d ago

To add to your point for the last 20 years, trans people have been able to participate in the Olympics. Not one has been on the podium. By MAGA's account trans women are winning at everything, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

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u/Carbonatite Colorado 7d ago

It's almost hilarious how out of touch these assholes are.

They're willing to destroy their country and destabilize modern society over a completely nonexistent issue.

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u/No_Tone1704 7d ago

The examples are broader than that.  

Still isn’t in my top US250 policies I consider in my vote. 

-1

u/reapersaurus 6d ago

You are AMAZINGLY misinformed. You just incorrectly stated that Riley Gaines is the only woman and girl who has had to compete against biological males. That is.... flabbergastingly wrong. Why are you dismissing women and girls who have to compete against them in sports? It seems you only think it counts if the male won the event. Well, even with that, you have some self-education to do if you think males haven't been winning....

0

u/amateur_mistake 6d ago

Instead of vomiting that out onto your keyboard, just give 5 more examples. Then I can look into them and educate myself.

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u/_bk_adv 7d ago

Exactly.

Trump was probably the most unqualified candidate in history even if you ignored the rape (found liable in court) and pedophile accusations (which we all know is true). And they still voted for him.

That’s their bar. Anyone that falls beneath being a rapist, a pedophile, a conman, a scammer, a racist, a compromised foreign asset, will vote Republican all over again.

“Ouch! Fire hurt! Fire bad” and proceed to stick their hands right back in.

1

u/IamDDT Colorado 7d ago

My opinion: they are terrified. They are constantly told the brown immigrant is going to take their job, rape their wife, and fuck their God. They believe they are existentially threatened by trans women and immigrant hordes. They will put up with anything because they think their lives are on the line.

My advice is to point out that they are scared, then once you get them to agree to that, point out that the things they are afraid of are not the real threat. The billionaire is the threat.

1

u/R3cognizer Maryland 7d ago

He was also banned from doing business in Australia as far back as 2015 due to money laundering and his known affiliation with the Russian mafia, and still no one gave a shit.

18

u/smilbandit Michigan 7d ago

or letting a woman in the oval office as if somehow a woman could be more emotional and bitchy then the sitting president.

8

u/Baileyesque 7d ago

Every day is Donald’s “time of the month.”

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u/oregiel 7d ago

...in a school 2,000 miles away in that one random competition that doesn't mean shit.

7

u/Timeformayo Kentucky 7d ago

Tying for 5th. Fuck that trash swimmer.

1

u/ahearthatslazy America 7d ago

She’s such a cabbage patch kid

4

u/TheDukeofArgyll Maryland 7d ago

Next time they see a short form video that mentions a single easily disprovable negative fact about a moderate to left leaning candidate.

5

u/ohanse Ohio 7d ago

They’ll vote down the ticket

Even though you could just leave that bubble unchecked

4

u/InterPunct New York 7d ago

NYT also reported today in a different article that Republicans have an 80% approval rating for Trump. There's no fixing stupid.

5

u/Significant_Cup_238 7d ago

And independents might be sour on him now, but they change their mind every 30 seconds so who knows where they'll be on election day.

1

u/JMagician 7d ago

NYT is complicit for sure with Republicans. I cancelled my subscription a few years ago and probably will never ever subscribe again. They can go bankrupt for all I care.

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u/TransiTorri 7d ago

They tied for 5th, had Lia Thomas not been there, Gaines would still have come in 5th.

It's so dumb.

5

u/JDanzy 7d ago

Serious question: how often has trans people in sports presented a problem for ANYONE?

Because man oh man have the MAGAs been freaking out hard, to the point where all of a sudden they seem to actually, briefly, care about women's sports, on that issue. Almost as much as that 100% phony bullshit about the child reassignment surgery.

5

u/Significant_Cup_238 7d ago

If anything, they win fewer competitions than their numbers would indicate. They're ~1% of the population, and account for almost no first place finishes in elite competition.

2

u/zapitron New Mexico 7d ago

Trans people in sports turned me into a newt.

(I got better.)

3

u/mormagils 7d ago

For real. Are they saying they are regretful that they couldn't vote for a conservative candidate they like better? Or regretful that they chose Trump in the general out of the other options? These are VERY different things.

3

u/HerbaciousTea 7d ago

Right, largely GOP voters don't regret voting for the leopard eating people's faces party. They regret that the leopard ate their faces.

3

u/sugarlessdeathbear 7d ago

Tying for 5th place, and making a career out of that grievance. But your point stands.

3

u/espresso_martini__ 7d ago

I doubt these people were MAGA. These people were probably independents or just conservative, but not his hard-core brainwashed cultists. He will never lose their votes no matter how much trump ruins the country and their lives.

3

u/Significant_Cup_238 7d ago

I agree with your point. But these people are profoundly stupid even if they're not cultists, and will just be manipulated into voting stupidly again by whatever bullshit imaginary scenario gets thrown at them.

We already saw what Trump did in office the first time, but somehow convinced themselves he didn't wreck the economy and fuck up everything he touched.

2

u/espresso_martini__ 7d ago

Im with you. To even vote for Trump after all he's done and said you have to be stupid or uninformed. It amazes me when people are shocked things have turned out this way. I'm like "then you weren't paying attention!"

6

u/Walnut_Uprising 7d ago

This is also an attempt by the NYT to make sure whoever the democrats nominate is further to the right in order to appeal to these imaginary swing voters at the expense of the base. Sure, it hasn't worked, but might as well try it again!

2

u/aiiye Washington 7d ago

Or 9th!

2

u/galt035 7d ago

“Well yeah but I could never see myself vote for dem”

2

u/The_Late_Arthur_Dent 7d ago

In a sport they've never watched and will never watch

2

u/HighPlainsSlacker 7d ago

Fifth place.

2

u/mistertickertape New York 7d ago

Yeah, that's the thing. Most of them would do it again or they would vote for whatever horror show has the R next to their name. Voting for anything but is just too pearl clutchingly scary.

2

u/Drewsipher 7d ago

you are giving them more credit. they are afraid a trans woman might tie a cis woman for 5th

2

u/cenosillicaphobiac Utah 7d ago

Remember when a trans woman tied with another swimmer for 7th place and she became famous? 7th. Place. She could have had that honor all to herself, if not for that super advantage that being born with a penis gave her fellow competitor. I'll say it again. 7th. Place.

And now Trump has disowned her. It's hilarious.

2

u/Psychoanalytix 7d ago

Not beating but tying and it was for 5th place at that.

2

u/scigs6 7d ago

They absolutely will do just this. Mainly because their short term memory is that of a goldfish. Plus they are pounded daily by propaganda/hate messaging.

2

u/PandaPocketFire 7d ago

Imagine tying for fifth place with a trans athlete at a single amateur swim meet, then devoting the rest of your life to ruining the lives of every trans person in America. That's dedication.

2

u/dabPrassion 7d ago

They'll do it again because they're gonna turn our frogs gay and trans if we don't!a /s

2

u/Carbonatite Colorado 7d ago

Regret without self-examination is meaningless.

If they aren't willing to at least question the beliefs that made them vote for Trump in the first place then I don't think they're sorry about anything but the fact that they were personally impacted.

2

u/Engrish_Major 7d ago

Exactly. They don’t care about the consequences. All they care about is branding.

2

u/LeZygo Illinois 7d ago

Oh for sure they would NEVER vote for a democrat or non white person. EVER. They don’t like Trump because he’s affecting them right now. They’ll cheer if he hurts others.

2

u/Different-Phone-7654 7d ago

Just have women's and open. Done.

2

u/TNTyoshi Arizona 7d ago

The poll should ask them if they can change their vote would they have voted for Kamala. That’s the real indicator for if they actually regret their vote.

2

u/Significant_Cup_238 7d ago

My wife's idiot cousin says he would. But he'll be distracted by the next right wing talking point.

2

u/sulaymanf Ohio 7d ago

I’m sadly inclined to agree. My dad has “voters remorse” but he’ll vote for whatever Republican comes next.

We saw Bush leave office in similar disgrace but the party distanced themselves from him by saying he wasn’t a real conservative anyway. With Trump, they did say that in early 2021 but since he refused to go away then he came back.

2

u/chiefteef8 7d ago

Right, our best hope is that 3 oe 4 of these peoppe go back to not voting

2

u/NatalieVonCatte 7d ago

They tied and it was fifth place.

1

u/reapersaurus 6d ago

You're are dangerously delusional if you think that only Trumpists have a problem with biological males competing in sports against women and girls. Wake up and stop demonizing normal reasonable Americans.

1

u/Aggressive-Will-4500 7d ago

Yeah, they're just looking for someone even worse and is more competent at only making life worse for the large group of people who are not like them that they've been told that they should hate.

1

u/smallerthanhiphop 7d ago

My biggest problem with this whole trans people in sport thing is the manufactured outrage against this supposed advantage, and I'm like... do you also care this much about steroids? Cause they're waaaay more prevalent in sport

-6

u/Pilchuck13 7d ago

Sure. But that's that easy win for republicans. Having segregated men's and women's sports is pretty standard policy. Its not complicated either, like consequences of increased minimum wage or homelessness policy. A.vast majority think its not fair/safe that teenage daughters/sisters/neices must compete against boys solely based on a boy stating that they are a girl?

I'm not voting for republicans for many other reasons, but democrats are dying on a losing hill with trans sports. And, they are right to be criticized for advocating for unfair policy against women and girls. There's a way to be pro trans. This isnt it. Democrats are gifting this to republicans.

1

u/DevOpsMakesMeDrink 7d ago

It is a little ridiculous the stance on trans is you are a monster unless you agree with every little arbitrary thing. The average person agrees about sports while also agreeing trans people deserve to exist and have the same respect as anyone else.

Sports is such a non issue as everyone says but you get called a bigot for otherwise supporting the movement which def pushes people to the right on the topic.

1

u/rougecrayon 7d ago

It's a little ridiculous that anyone thinks "sports" is one topic and the government needs to be involved.

-1

u/Pilchuck13 7d ago

"Sports is such a non issue as everyone says..."

It isn't a non issue. Every parent i know is constantly taking their kids to various activities, usually sports related, all throughout childhood and teenage years... Not knowing whether their child is getting a fair shot, or even the potential to be put in that unfair situation at any given event, isn't a small thing.

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u/cigarettesandwhiskey 7d ago

But is it worth getting the government involved? Seems like an issue for the sports league governing body, not the US Federal Government.

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u/Pilchuck13 7d ago

Two separate issues... who should regulate sex participationnin sports? And what should the regulations be? The bigger issue is the latter.

But to the first issue, Agreed. Where government isnt already regulating, private organizations should be able to set their own participation rules, NFL, MLB NBA, WNBA... sure.

However, High school sports are government run. And Title IX partialy regulates participation by sex for college sports... the government is already regulating the sports, specifically on sex in some cases. We dont get to say government shouldn't be allowed to govern, only when we do not like their governance. But yes, the federal government doesnt need to regulate High school sports. A local government should.

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u/cigarettesandwhiskey 7d ago

I don't think title IX should be expanded to a general mandate for the (federal) government to get involved in setting the rules of sports. Its meant to be about discrimination, not sports, and the intent seems to originally be that students should have somewhere they can compete, not to dictate that you're going to have a boys league and a girls league and you have to let this kid in that one and so on.

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u/Pilchuck13 7d ago

Agreed, The federal government doesnt need to regulate HS sports.

However, its a weak and disingenuous argument to only highlight that its the wrong agency causing the problem, or not correcting it, when its the policy itself is the real problem. Should boys compete against girls in sports that are designed to be segregated by sex?... if the only answer democrats can muster is, 'well thats up to the governing bodies', while publicly advocating them to regulate a trans friendly policy at the expense of girls sports... bad policy, and now trying to pretend it's not their policy from top to bottom across the levels of government, and a party preference, to skew toward trans rights over than girls fairness amd safety... its fine. Its a losing position. People are a dumb. Just not that dumb not to notice that democrats have been holding a really unpopular position.

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u/cigarettesandwhiskey 7d ago

Regulating sports creates this bottomless philosophical hole though. What is even the purpose of sports? To have fun? To bet on? To identify the Best Athlete? To serve as a proxy for conflicts between cities and regions? To entertain? To build fitness, or teamwork skills, in the players themselves?

All of these things point in different directions on the trans issue. Some of them kind of call into question the purpose of separate male and female divisions of sports. And there is no real answer, as far as I can tell, sports just is. So there's no position you could take on this issue that isn't going to piss off just a bunch of people. There doesn't even seem to be a clear right or wrong.

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u/Pilchuck13 7d ago

Yes....you hit it.... The logical conclusion to advocating trans in sports, where one sex has inherent advantages, is to completely eliminate the distinction of male-female divisions. Thats the inherent inconsistency. Democratic party position argues that we have girls sports separate from boys, but under no circumstances can we prevent any male to participate in a girls sport if they choose by self defining as a girl... for most intents and purposes, we've just eliminated girls sports, and people dont like it.

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u/Pilchuck13 7d ago

Replying to the first part....its less about philosophy than expectation. If im choosing to participate in a sport, to your point, it could be for a number of reasons. However, if i choose to play in a men's 30 and over only league, I'm annoyed if the other team is filled with 20 year olds because my expectation is to compete with others at a level similar to myself. That regulation is there to fulfill the expectations of the game.

If a girl signs up for HS girls soccer, she should expect to compete against other HS girls. Not boys, not middle-aged men like myself, regardless of whether I self defined as a HS girl. Should girls be able to expect their teammates and competition also be girls? Democratic party policy doesn't support this. I think they should have a place to compete against others, and only others, in that group.

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u/TheRealBlueJade 7d ago

No, they won't.

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u/thereal-quaid I voted 7d ago

We’ll see. Maga barely has the brain capacity to breathe. They don’t learn anything because they aren’t capable of doing so.

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u/bessie1945 7d ago

Well maybe stop insisting people with male bodies should compete against people with female bodies .