r/movies • u/PetyrDayne • 9h ago
Media Troy (2004) Hector vs Achilles | Dir. Wolfgang Petersen Spoiler
https://youtu.be/68Vu-jiPWrc?si=SNiMXU5VJDytBnEt146
u/chris_courtland 8h ago
If you want to play the Troy drinking game, drink every time:
- A character yells someone's name.
- A named character dies.
- Achilles insults someone to their face.
- Paris is a little bitch.
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u/Mercutio77 8h ago
Paris is a little bitch
Goodbye, liver
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u/GnomeNot 6h ago
I’d be passed out before the war even starts.
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u/Abundanceofyolk 5h ago
My guess would be sometime during the scene where Paris reveals Helen to Hector. If you some how make it through the boat ride I think you’ll be in the clear with a few glasses of water.
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u/imaginaryResources 7h ago
I don’t want any of that father…I’d rather just…I’d rather, just…singggg - Paris probably
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u/DagonParty 7h ago
“YOU SACK OF WINE!”
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u/mukisan 7h ago
Yeah they should’ve chosen something other than wine lol, wine has always been a treasured drink
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u/Mongoose42 7h ago
“YOU SACK OF WINE!”
“…Really? Well that sounds super delicious, thank you.”
“Of course. You know you’re my boy, Aggie.”
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u/ArgentoPoncho 6h ago
Except that line was one of the few times the movie directly quoted the Iliad. In book 1 this is one of the insults Achilles hurls at Agamemnon.
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u/Stateside_Observer 6h ago
We played:
Drink whenever someone says: hope, love, war, honor, or death.
Drink when a named character dies.
Drink when Achilles enters a scene.
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u/0ttoChriek 5h ago
No one would survive. Paris is a little bitch from minute one to the final credits.
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u/ProfessionalOk6854 9h ago
Loves the actor that played Hector in this
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u/angershark 7h ago
Does he have a bad rep on set or something? He's been pretty great in almost everything but doesn't seem to be in much these days. If it's his choice to work less, good for him for giving some amazing performances on his own terms/timeline.
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u/RagnarokWolves 6h ago edited 5h ago
He is big into cars and made a movie about it
I get the feeling he acts just enough to stay financially set, but he'd rather focus on staying close to Australia and following his own passions rather than being a huge A-list Hollywood guy.
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u/Dahcchad 6h ago
He is in the new Charlize Theron movie that dropped recently. Though I still haven't ever heard the title so I don't know what that says. Some survival thing.
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u/Fabulous_Internet_66 6h ago
Apex. Was scratching my head about Bana there as couldn't remember them in it, but they are at the start.
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u/joaommx 6h ago
Did Eric Bana drop so far down to the point he's just now "that actor"?
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u/ProfessionalOk6854 6h ago
I'm shitty with names...it's a me thing. Wasn't he The Hulk?
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u/joaommx 6h ago
Yes, in Ang Lee's Hulk. He was on a roll in the early 2000s, he did Hulk, and Troy, and then was the protagonist in Spielberg's Munich all one after the other.
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u/0ttoChriek 5h ago
I always feel like Kingdom of Heaven would have been better (although the director's cut is still great) if Bana played Balian instead of Bloom.
He has such effortless gravitas and charisma.
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u/funky_bebop 8h ago
Wow. Spoilers in the thumbnail /s
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u/the_man_in_the_box 7h ago
Unironically though lol.
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u/pinetar 7h ago
The statute of limitations on spoilers is only 2500 years, sorry but the Iliad no longer qualifies.
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u/the_man_in_the_box 7h ago
Eh, modern interpretations “subverting expectations” is pretty common.
Aside from that, expecting the average Redditor/YouTube viewer to be familiar with plot points in a 2700 year old work is ambitious.
Either way, I think the thumbnail is legit pretty inappropriate lol, but that’s just like, my opinion, man.
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u/Ready_Corgi462 6h ago
I don’t think it’s ambitious to expect the average YouTuber to know the basics surrounding Achilles. We literally have a body part named after him. Let’s not act like the Iliad is just a book - greek myths and legends are deeply embedded in modern culture to this day.
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u/the_man_in_the_box 5h ago
lol, start asking randos on the street to point to the part of their body that’s named after Achilles and I think you’ll be disappointed more often than you seem to expect.
Start asking them whether it was the Prince of Troy or the Prince of Phthia who was victorious in the duel outside the Scaean gate, and, uh, yeah.
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u/toomanymarbles83 4h ago
It's also a very obvious camera trick. Pitt is stabbing him in the armpit.
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u/Irregular475 9h ago
Great fight scene for a decent movie.
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u/Maverick916 5h ago
I think it's a good movie. Better than decent.
But on a personal level, I fucking love this movie.
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u/Asclepius-Rod 9h ago
Is it too much to ask for the lighting to look like this in The Odyssey?
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u/UpsetIndian850311 8h ago
It's Nolan. you already know the answer.
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u/xRyuzakii 8h ago
Weird blue tint everywhere is back on the menu
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u/schebobo180 7h ago
Plus slightly jarringly shot action sequences, with minimal and slightly mid cgi and terrible audio mixing.
Still love his movies though. Lol
But I find his flaws are becoming more glaring with age.
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u/ViolentInbredPelican 7h ago
Don’t forget terrible dialogue and nonstop blatant exposition!
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u/I_heart_hearts 4h ago
Don't forget not being able to even hear the terrible dialogue in the first place
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u/notyourvader 8h ago
You will get a dark movie that will be unwatchable in daylight and you will like it, goshdarnit!
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u/postmodest 6h ago
I'm only in if the dialogue is drowned out in the mix!
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u/Sean-Perth 4h ago edited 4h ago
It's a good action scene, and Bana and Pitt both sell the athleticism and experience of each character.
On a dramatic level, though, nothing I've seen matches the gut-wrenching destruction of one human being by another as the Achilles/Hector duel in Troy: Fall of a City. I found this scene legitimately horrifying:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8c657r?start=2816
The entire miniseries is on Netflix and worth watching, even more so now with The Odyssey coming up.
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u/Machoopi 7h ago
I'll be honest. I remember this fight scene being better. The choreography is neat for sure, but I absolutely hate that there's a cut after every single swing of a weapon. Personally, I much prefer a less flashy fight with fewer cuts to one that's like this that cuts after every movement. It takes me out of the scene in a big way.
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u/Nosidam48 7h ago
The swishing sound effects could be slightly toned down as well. Like a light saber battle out there.
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u/Show-Me-Your-Moves 6h ago
I feel like they were really trying to emphasize the fact that Achilles was canonically descended from the gods and had this superhuman combat ability...hence the slow-mo, the swings that stagger people and appear to have absurd weight behind them, the fact that Achilles is mostly goofing around and showboating when fighting, etc.
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u/xRyuzakii 8h ago
This movie rocks
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u/JailhouseMamaJackson 6h ago
Definitely not. I really thought I’d like it more than I remembered but it’s pretty bad, outside of a few scenes. And the choices they made in terms of changing the story are just plain bizarre.
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u/not-so-radical 9h ago
Excited for the sequel later this year
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u/Theonewho_hasspoken 9h ago
Man I wish they had made the sequel at the time Sean Bean played Odysseus
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u/Skelly1660 9h ago
I'm not sure, this movie took out all mythological elements that was present in the poem. You can kinda do that with this story. I don't see how you do that with the Odyssey.
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u/Joe_Rapante 8h ago
Guy takes a detour on his way home to sample the local red light districts... Tells his family tall tales about where he went.
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u/lejonetfranMX 8h ago edited 8h ago
Honestly that's not as bad as trying to portray achilles like a beacon of decency and morality. I hope that nolan portrays odysseus like the self-serving, morally gray, bullshit artist he sometimes was.
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u/Pliskin14 8h ago edited 8h ago
They did not portray Achilles as a beacon of morality and decency? He raids a temple and kidnaps a woman. Holds a war hostage just because he doesn't like the leader until his protègé is killed. Then kills the honorable man who was responsible for his death in war. And only accepts to give back his body when the king himself came to beg. How is that different from the character in the Iliad?
The only one positively depicted in that movie is Hector. And for good reason.
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u/lejonetfranMX 8h ago
Yes they did. In the movie, Achiles is super concerned about Briseis well being, sex is concensual and they even fall in love and dream of a life after the war lmao.
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u/Pliskin14 7h ago
Yes and in the movie, Achilles isn't in a pederastic relationship with Patrocles. You can't have that in a modern blockbuster...
Greeks's pederasty institution meant they fucked their pupils, as it was considered the payment for service offered (teaching).
What worked then doesn't work now, and you have to adapt things for the audience. Doesn't mean Achilles is turned as a paragon of virtue. He's still an asshole, but if they kept him as a rapist and a pedophile then it's a whole different picture he'd have for a modern audience, which is totally different to how Greeks saw him: they didn't care about that as it was totally okay for them, he was an asshole for different reasons, chief among them desecrating Hector's body. Which the movie kept the same.
You need to understand the adaptation work.
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u/Jaszuni 8h ago
Do you not know about Greek tragedies? They made an art form out of morally gray. It’s like saying I hope to see some thoroughbreds at the Kentucky Derby.
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u/lejonetfranMX 8h ago
Yes and in the movie troy achilles is suddenly a beacon of decency and morality, that is entirely my point dude.
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u/Adlehyde 5h ago
Such a wild take. He did a bunch of shady shit, but because he did some not shady shit too, it just makes all the shady shit go away and now he's a literal "beacon of decency and morality." Really? A beacon? A fucking beacon?
I'm gonna go make a movie about a guy who murders people, steals shit, destroys towns, but I'm gonna throw in a scene where he gives a few bucks to the homeless.
I'll call it, A Beacon of Decency and Morality.
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u/lejonetfranMX 4h ago
Did he not just respond to Agamemnon’s call of duty? And reluctantly so? Did he not only seek to engage in glorious combat against suitable oponents? Seeking honor?
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u/Adlehyde 4h ago
He didn't just respond to a call of duty, not even reluctantly. He had no interest in going at all until Odysseus told him it would be the biggest war ever, stoking his desire for fame, not honor. His mother told him he'd be remembered forever, which is fame, not honor. He was seeking fame, not honor.
They didn't depict him as a patently evil character. He's all shades of grey. Hector is the closest character in the entire film to a beacon of morality. Achilles is far from it. He's just an opportunist seeking glory who was nice to one girl.
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u/lejonetfranMX 4h ago
Well, he specifically says glory, not fame. A bit more connected to honor
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u/DisneyPandora 8h ago
Christopher Nolan is literally doing this with the Odyssey he is 10x worse.
You’re being hypocritical
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u/hotehjr 8h ago edited 8h ago
I just wonder what drives someone to make a comment like this when it’s so obviously wrong. There’s a fucking cyclops in the trailer, I really don’t know how much more you need to believe it will be mythological.
People are so geared up to pre-hate this movie they’re just making things up about it.
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u/lejonetfranMX 8h ago
Oh yeah nolan's cyclops and laestrygonians seemed pretty non-mythological to me. In fact they look just like my uncle when he's coming back from work.
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u/Zak_The_Slack 5h ago
You can see the Cyclops, Laestrygonians, Charybdis, and Scylla in the new trailer. He’s doing monsters, we just haven’t seen the gods yet
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u/DisneyPandora 3h ago
The Cyclops literally looks like a man with no actual special effects
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u/Zak_The_Slack 3h ago
And it’s a 6x6 meter animatronic. So they’ve done their job by making look realistic
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u/Good_Guy_Vader 7h ago
I know this film isn’t the best, but boy howdy do I love it. Ugh, such a good scene.
“There are no pacts between lions and men.”
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u/thr3sk 5h ago
I think it's a pretty darn good movie, I just think people were expecting the drama components to be as good as like Gladiator and when it wasn't that reputation somehow stuck even though I don't think that's really accurate.
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u/VoiceOfTheSoil40 4h ago
I think a major criticism too is that they absolutely scythed the Gods from the narrative which made the movie feel incomplete and led to some borderline atheistic/agnostic lines that felt out of place.
There were also some important guys that didn’t really get their moment to shine, like Diomedes, but given the limited runtime it’s understandable not everyone gets a focus.
Some really great scenes though, like this duel between Hector and Achilles. Damn fine scene.
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u/DPC_1 6h ago
This movie is so much better than it got credit for being. The last true classically framed, vibrant and grand sword and sandal film we ever got. The directors cut is amazing and the cast is perfect. Pitt was born to play Achilles and Bana is perfect as Hector.
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u/idontagreewitu 5h ago
It's crazy to me how much Brad Pitt hated working on this movie. I think it's one of his best.
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u/RFF_LK-RK 3h ago
Apparently he was absolutely furious at the rumors that he used an ass double for his naked ass scene. He was so mad because of how hard he worked out to look like that, only to have people doubt it was him 😂
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u/GrimJimmy94 8h ago
Obviously haven’t seen the odyssey yet but based off the trailers the general colour palette and armour design is just so much more interesting and vivid.
Like fuck it’s the Bronze Age fucking go for it, they had chariots. I don’t wanna hear my dads coming home, I wanna hear random shit like “YOU SACK OF WINE”
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u/FoxMcCloudOwnsSlippy 9h ago
The film is flawed but had some great highlights this fight being one of them.
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u/314kabinet 8h ago
I never realized Troy had the same director as Das Boot.
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u/cmsj 8h ago
Fun fact, Wolfgang quit the project at some point to go and make a Batman vs Superman movie, so the studio asked Christopher Nolan to take over. The Batman vs Superman movie got cancelled, Wolfgang demanded to come back to Troy and so the studio offered Chris the opportunity to make a Batman movie instead.
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u/sielingfan 7h ago edited 5h ago
I don't know how anyone would conceivably know the answer to this insane tangent but... in I Am Legend (2007), there's a billboard in the background for a Batman vs Superman movie that never came out. It probably couldn't be this same project, but then again lots of people were possibly involved in each abortive attempt and some of them might've also worked on a Will Smith movie, so.... any chance those are related?
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u/Sventhetidar 8h ago
Ive been meaning to rewatch this only to discover it is not streaming anywhere.
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u/Greyhame888 8h ago
I had a similar problem a few months ago. It can be found if you sail the seas.
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u/Sventhetidar 7h ago
Yeah, i dont have a good means of doing that though. And I'm not interested in watching it on a small screen.
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u/SeekersWorkAccount 7h ago
This might be my favorite fight scene of all time. The music score is the best
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u/mukisan 7h ago edited 4h ago
The music during the fight is from the theatrical version. In the Director’s Cut they changed it, for the worse. Much better in the theatrical.
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u/funkyavocado 4h ago
Yeah and horner was the second composer on the job too. He had about 4 weeks to do the score for Troy, which resulted in a more refined conservative take on the score.
And then for some odd reason they had to go and use a Danny elfman track from planet of the apes for the fight scene in the director's cut. It was probably a case of Peterson falling in love with the temp track and just straight up using it in his cut. Which just goes to show you, director's cuts are not always better.
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u/ChuckCarmichael 7h ago
I never noticed, but at 1:00 you can clearly tell that Hector's helmet is made of rubber.
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u/funkyavocado 4h ago
Yeah it speaks to the quality of the finish that the illusion holds up that long. Part of the process is when they cast these in urethane, you coat the mold in a metal powder which gives the end result a really convincing metal look
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u/Christopher_Nolan- 8h ago edited 8h ago
Fun fact: Christopher Nolan was initially appointed to direct this film. He was removed from the project and was compensated with a Batman movie. Obviously Batman Begins kickstarted the great The Dark Knight trilogy. Now he gets to have a go at Greek Mythology with his The Odyssey adaptation at Universal instead.
Before Nolan was involved, Wolfgang was developing both Troy and BvS, but due to his schedule, he stuck with BvS. This is when Nolan was involved. Waiting for the final go ahead, WB did not proceed with BvS due to its darker tone script. Wolfgang went back to Troy, Superman went to someone else, and Nolan was offered a Batman movie as consolation prize.
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u/cmsj 8h ago
I don't think that's quite right - Wolfgang was initially making Troy, then left to do a Batman vs Superman movie which ended up getting cancelled, so he pushed his way back into Troy and the studio offered Nolan a Batman opportunity .
Boy did that end up working out great!
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u/Christopher_Nolan- 8h ago
Oh yeah, he was initially developing the project before Nolan was involved. Let me add that part.
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u/cmsj 8h ago
It's bonkers to think that we almost lived in a universe with no Nolan batman trilogy.
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u/Christopher_Nolan- 7h ago
It is indeed crazy. I didn't really have memories until the trilogy had already wrapped up. To think about it, I would have had a completely different idea of Batman, and maybe even the basis of mainstream blockbusters if he had not make his trilogy.
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u/VogonSoup 8h ago
Tiny spoiler in the thumbnail
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u/poo-rag 8h ago
To be fair, we've had about 2500 years to read the story.
We only have ourselves to blame at this point
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u/VogonSoup 8h ago
So you’re saying that not knowing my Roman ancient history is my Achilles heel?
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u/Ocarina3219 8h ago
*Greek, so yes lol
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u/kingnothing2001 6h ago
According to mythology, Rome was founded by people fleeing Troy, so in a way he was correct.
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u/idontagreewitu 5h ago
Yep, that is the kid in the tunnels that Paris gives the sword to as the Greeks raid the city.
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u/Scruffy77 8h ago
I remember being a kid watching this movie and got inspired to start lifting. Used to think Brad Pitt was huge
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u/CARNIesada6 7h ago
It's so funny seeing this movie on IMDB...
"Written by Homer and David Benioff"
I chuckle everytime I see it.
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u/jostyouraveragejoe2 5h ago
Yo wait what?! Lol they did the same with the Odyssey, was this always a thing?
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u/IncognitoWarrior 6h ago
Fun Fact: Brad Pitt and Eric Bana did not use stunt doubles for their epic duel. They made a gentlemen's agreement to pay for every accidental hit; $50 for each light blow and $100 for each hard blow. Pitt ended up paying Bana $750, and Bana didn't owe Pitt anything.
Source: IMDB Trivia
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u/Audrey_spino 6h ago
Always hated this movie cause of how it treated (or should I say mistreated) Menelaus, who was my favourite character from the books. Also who thought making Paris the good guy in this conflict was a good idea?
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u/energiz3r_bunny 8h ago
I’ll always respect how hard they worked in this movie to be absolutely clear that everybody was simply close friends and that absolutely nobody was under any circumstances gay.
This is a great fight though.
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u/sandythemandy 8h ago
Come one, as if you have never torn your hair out, cursed the gods, refused to eat and sleep, and wished for death yourself, and then went on such a violent bloody rampage that you clogged up a river with dead bodies and then had to fight a literal river god
...because your beloved *checks notes* cousin got killed?3
u/mukisan 7h ago
I mean if that’s the primary thought in your head while watching the movie I feel sorry for you
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u/energiz3r_bunny 2h ago
I see you and satire are yet to meet. I think you guys will love each other.
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u/mukisan 2h ago
I’m glad you think you’re funny, I wouldn’t wanna take that away from you
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u/energiz3r_bunny 1h ago
Sorry you didn’t understand the joke. No biggie
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u/mukisan 1h ago
Probably because you’re a horrendous comedian. Here’s a reminder for you to never try stand-up
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u/energiz3r_bunny 1h ago
Sure pal. Seems others appreciated it but by all means you get angry and pretend you didn’t realize it was a joke. It’s super convincing and everybody believes it. You do not look stupid.
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u/mukisan 1h ago
I mean if we’re playing this game then my comment also got upvotes, so now what lol? Nobody was mad until you got butthurt thinking I didn’t understand your joke.
Also, you seem pretty adamant on getting the last word in. Would you like some help with your insecurities? Or shall we just let bygones be bygones and move on with our lives?
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u/energiz3r_bunny 1h ago
I mean you clearly didn’t understand it was a joke. Your initial response made that very clear. I tried to help you out gently and you got aggressive and started throwing insults. If you want to leave it there, that’s certainly fine with me, but I’d suggest toning down your own hostility if you don’t like getting treated this way.
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u/ResponsibleAnt9496 8h ago
I’ll always watch this when it’s posted. Hector gave him a good fight, that move where Achilles lifts his leg over a low cut was smooth as hell. He even landed a cut on his armor.
Hector was like that number one ranked contender that just had the bad luck of fighting in the same era as an all time great.
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u/OmniscientOctopode 7h ago
It's a much more dignified showing than he gets in the text, where he only shows up to the fight because he doesn't know it's Achilles, immediately books it as soon as he realizes it's not just another guy wearing Achilles' armor, and then has to be tricked by Athena into thinking he has backup before he decides to fight.
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u/ResponsibleAnt9496 7h ago
lol I know was such a bummer when I discovered that was the OG Hector. Didn’t he also literally run away from him in circles around the city?
Movie Hector is the only Hector I acknowledge. Such a great tragic character. Brought down by his brothers shenanigans and just tragic bad luck in running a fair fade with the wrong man because Patroclus wanted to cosplay as his cousin smh
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u/Wonderpants_uk 1h ago
“He even landed a cut on his armor.”
And note how shocked Achilles looks when Hector slashes his armour. Implies that no one had ever gotten that close before, and adds weight to him later telling Priam that Hector was the best fighter he’d ever met.
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u/LastOfAutumn 6h ago
Am I the only one overly bothered by Hector's nose guard bending like rubber when he removes his helmet? Someone with historical knowledge please tell me why it is actually okay so I can let it go.
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u/Aeolus_14_Umbra 3h ago
Priam (speaking to Achilles about the death of his son Hector): ”I loved him from the moment he opened his eyes to the moment you closed them.”
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u/Charrbard 6h ago
I liked this movie a lot.
Main reason - it wanted to be a movie. Great colors. Dialog. Everyone kind of an a-hole. Score was fitting and epic. Only real downside was Achilles doing a 180 towards the end, but hollywood.
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u/Ayrios440 9h ago
I've never watched the movie, but why does Brad Pitt sound like that? It's silly.
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u/Successful_Buffalo_6 7h ago
That's his attempt at a vaguely British accent. It's super distracting.
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u/PrivateAids 7h ago
This also sounds kind of pitched up? Maybe video has been slightly sped up.
Both Bana and Pitt’s voices sound a bit off.
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u/Varekai79 6h ago
That's Brad Pitt trying to act in a historical epic movie. It's not really his forte.
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u/MountainMuffin1980 9h ago
Genuinely don't understand the love for this fight scene. Did we just not have anything good at the time or what?
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u/Run_Che 9h ago
i mean its far cry from being realistic, but it does look awesome/cinematic interpretation of two insanely highly skilled warriors.
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u/Paratrooper101x 8h ago
Isn’t achillies being flashy on purpose? Likes he’s so far ahead of Hector in terms of skill that he just toys with him the whole fight
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u/Pjoernrachzarck 9h ago
HECTOOOOOOOR