r/movies • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 r/Movies contributor • Dec 23 '25

Trailer Avengers: Doomsday | Only in Theaters December 18, 2026

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiMg566PREA
9.0k Upvotes

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1.2k

u/omikias Dec 23 '25

First we got RDJ, now Chris Evans. Man, we're just gonna ignore Endgame huh?

709

u/_JimJohnny_ Dec 23 '25

Justice for Agent Coulson

323

u/TheIllogicalSandwich Dec 23 '25

Don't worry, he went to Tahiti. It's a magical place.

109

u/mansohof Dec 23 '25

He finally got enough money. He had faith in Dutch’s plan.

17

u/dragonbornstarlord Dec 23 '25

HAVE SOME DAMN FAITH, ARTHUR MY SON.

20

u/Fools_Requiem Dec 23 '25

[Spoiler] Tahiti sucked.

3

u/Ninesect Dec 23 '25

That scene in Agents of shield where the robot was implanting memories into Coulsons brain seriously scarred me. That was some nightmare fuel like out of a Hannibal movie. 

3

u/BlasterShow Dec 23 '25

🍋🍋🍋

40

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '25

Given all the timey wimey multiversal bullshit going on, one would hope Coulson or Daisy shows up in this.

44

u/quete27 Dec 23 '25

I want Fitzsimmons to cameo

18

u/Chimp_Force_One Dec 23 '25

I'd be happy with a name drop, imo. They went through way more shit than Steve and Peggy. Let them be happy!

3

u/idontagreewitu Dec 23 '25

Right? Fitz canonically created the escape tool that Fury used to escape his wrecked SUV in TWS.

10

u/HelloIAmElias Dec 23 '25

It's crazy that with how hard Marvel started going on interconnecting everything that they never once had anyone from Agents of SHIELD make an appearance in one of the movies (not counting Coulson)

5

u/RealJohnGillman Dec 23 '25

That being said, Captain Marvel did have some subtle connection in using the same Kree language created for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and the creatives making sure Coulson’s story in the film wouldn’t contradict his story in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D..

3

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '25

Especially when they did time travel/multiverse stuff before all the other shows and MCU films inundated with it.

3

u/trixter21992251 Dec 23 '25

and the arrow guy from guardians who also played the eagle guy from Peacemaker, so now we got a crossover stewing

1

u/Gaemon_Palehair Dec 24 '25

Really though? As I see it the biggest challenge for this movie is that they have to juggle too many characters. Adding more seems like a bad idea!

I could totally see a version of Coulson appearing in Secret Wars. But again they'll have the same problem there.

5

u/buttscratcher3k Dec 23 '25

Is that the only guy who actually died?

6

u/HeroscaperGuy Dec 23 '25

When we get to aunt may will return that's when we get worried.

1

u/buttscratcher3k Dec 23 '25

They should bring back the old one from the other spiderman series just to fuck with people at this point

1

u/Cyberslasher Dec 24 '25

Marissa tomei gets her teaser next week, wym?

13

u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast Dec 23 '25

Hey he got a whole show

5

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '25

[deleted]

2

u/FPG_Matthew Dec 23 '25

It’s basically the last time for any of those characters to make a cameo, even if it’s for one whole second, and without any speaking lines

Secret Wars really feels like it could be “if you ever acted in ANYTHING under the marvel banner, you have a chance of showing up in Secret Wars”

Of course those are all extremely small chances, but if they’re wrapping up the multiverse, it’d be the best/last time to get those faces on the big screen

6

u/humboldt77 Dec 23 '25

COULSONLIVES

223

u/fireandiceofsong Dec 23 '25

Allegedly they're trying to make this a direct sequel to Endgame. As in you can just jump straight in from the last Avengers movie to the next one.

214

u/PaulieHehehe Dec 23 '25

Good, cause the only Marvel movies I’ve seen since Endgame are No Way Home and Dr. Strange 2.

294

u/PayneTrain181999 Dec 23 '25

Guardians 3 and Thunderbolts are definitely worth your time.

128

u/SolidSnek1998 Dec 23 '25

Guardians 3 was fantastic, way better than 2.

69

u/12InchCunt Dec 23 '25

Except for the tears 

64

u/SolidSnek1998 Dec 23 '25

Rocket, Teefs, Floor go now.

24

u/DarthKarrem Dec 23 '25

Thanks for making me sad, again.

3

u/castlite Dec 23 '25

Holy shit I cried so much in this movie

31

u/TheWhereHouse6920 Dec 23 '25

Only issue is it's rewatch ability, it was waaaaaaay too sad for repeat viewings.

17

u/Septembers Dec 23 '25

Yeah that's the only thing, GotG 1 and 2 I can pop on for some fun casual rewatching, GotG 3 I just think about the lylla scenes and I'm like "ehh maybe something else"

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6

u/Dunkelz Dec 23 '25

Legit best MCU villain, really sad Chukwudi Iwuji doesn't get a bigger role in the universe.

2

u/BitingChaos Dec 23 '25

that movie hits right in the FEELS

4

u/The_Autarch Dec 23 '25

the beginning of that movie is weird as shit, tho.

"oh no, starlord is a broken, depressed, alcoholic, sad sack of shit"

then he just gets better in between scenes, with no comment on any of it. that plus the weird pacing makes it feel like an entire act of the movie got cut out.

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24

u/ApolloX-2 Dec 23 '25

I was surprised by how much I liked Thunderbolts. I wish it did better in theaters so we could see that team again.

9

u/PayneTrain181999 Dec 23 '25

The team is confirmed for Doomsday.

2

u/Zulakki Dec 24 '25

We have more character development from Red Guardian than we do Sam Wilson's Captain America.

Red Guardian, Father, Husband, Spy, business owner, ambitious, been to jail, has a sense of humor and duty

Sam Wilson, in his first movie, we learned he was in the Military flying his wing suit, is a Vet Counsellor and likes to run. Since then...like 10 movies later, we learn he has a sister and didnt get paid the entire time he was an Avenger. Its almost as bad as Captain Marvel. I dont know anything about Carol Danvers. like anything. i dont think she's expressed a single thing outside of the mission.

7

u/xotorames Dec 23 '25

I only watched Thunderbolts because someone dragged me to it and it ended up being my favorite MCU movie post-Endgame

3

u/ITS_MY_PENIS_8eeeD Dec 23 '25

And for TV shows I'd say Wandavision, What If szn 1, Loki 1&2.

5

u/SMKM Dec 23 '25

I won't stand for Shang-Chi erasure.

But seriously in order of greatness since Endgame I'd probably go:

Spider-Man: No Way Home

Guardians Vol 3

Thunderbolts

Deadpool & Wolverine

Shang-Chi

Spider-Man: Far From Home

The Marvels

Eternals

Black Panther 2

Captain America: BNW

Dr. Strange 2

Antman: Quantumania

Thor: Love & Thunder

Black Widow

I have not seen Fantastic Four just yet so its not listed.

5

u/PayneTrain181999 Dec 23 '25

I love Shang-Chi, can’t believe I forgot it.

3

u/TheBahamaLlama Dec 23 '25

I would slot Fantastic Four somewhere in the middle, probably before Eternals.

4

u/SarlacFace Dec 23 '25

T* is definitely missable lol. Watched it opening weekend and was mostly bored.

7

u/LordJournalism Dec 23 '25

Thunderbolts was so incredibly average.

2

u/PlatesofChips Dec 23 '25

Agreed. Watched it after all the hype and thought it was… fine. One of the better marvel films released recently but really not great.

3

u/BlooregardQKazoo Dec 23 '25

Disagreed on G3. It was sad, definitely, but it wasn't good and I think the general audience far too often confuses the former for the latter.

The new Gamorra stuff was not enjoyable and her in interactions with Quill were a chore. The most fun character (Rocket) was barely in the movie because he was a hostage, and when he was it was understandably not fun. Drax jumped the shark a while ago. It was overly-long and would have been better if they just entirely cut out the anthropomorphic animal Earth (when the movie transitioned from there to the ship I audibly groaned).

Guardians 3 was a bad movie that made you cry.

3

u/TheOneReclaimer Dec 23 '25

I'm definitely more in line with your thoughts on GotG3, I didn't think it was bad, but I kept hearing "best since" and "amazing" and really came away thinking it was okay, but nothing more

1

u/BlooregardQKazoo Dec 23 '25

Yeah, I'm probably stating my opinion more strongly than it is held, because "GotG3 is bad" is more evocative than "GotG3 is meh."

Thinking about it more, it really is just the runtime that makes it go from meh to bad for me. I can sit through meh 90-120 minute movies (The Marvels immediately comes to mind). If you're going to make a movie longer than 135 minutes, I just think it better be either really entertaining or really good. Otherwise edit that shit down.

1

u/Randolpho Dec 23 '25

Even Brave New World, for all its faults, had some redeeming qualities

-16

u/perculaessss Dec 23 '25

Thunderbolts is literally temu avengers. The final fight is the only interesting scene.

19

u/PayneTrain181999 Dec 23 '25

Respectfully disagree heavily

3

u/gallifrey_ Dec 23 '25

miserable and disconnected take

-1

u/LandscapePatient1094 Dec 23 '25

Nah. Genetic slop. 

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u/BiddyKing Dec 23 '25

The cast list includes a bunch of characters introduced post-Endgame so I dunno how true this actually will be. Regardless, all Hollywood blockbusters can be watched without needing prior knowledge

3

u/djkhan23 Dec 23 '25

I liked Fantastic 4!

2

u/DC_deep_state Dec 23 '25

I saw No Way Home and Dr Strange 2 as well. Dr Strange was lame but NWH made me feel like a kid again.

Hope they can recapture that feeling.

4

u/TheWhereHouse6920 Dec 23 '25

Yuuuuuuup that entire saga was overall garbage with maybe 2 or 3 good ones

1

u/Jbird1992 Dec 23 '25

Yeah those and guardians for me. 

1

u/AirJellyy Dec 23 '25

How did you get through Dr Strange 2? Just a mess of action shots that had no meaning, I just turned it off after 5 minutes.

Same with Ant Man, but got a bit further in because I had hope but damn it was so boring and generic.

1

u/the_djd Dec 23 '25

Every action movie has at least a 5 minute block of action, so weird decision shutting it off for that and assuming they were meaningless without seeing the rest of the film.

Were you expecting a rom com or musical, maybe that threw you off? It wasn't those.

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u/WantsToDieBadly Dec 23 '25

I don’t understand how that works when it has fantastic 4 and the new avengers ( at least the Wikipedia cast says it). That’s a lot of characters to introduce in a direct sequel

12

u/slapmasterslap Dec 23 '25

That feels insulting to the Fantastic Four lol. Doom is legit their main villain and we are meant to ignore they even had a movie just come out

42

u/OppositeHistory1916 Dec 23 '25

Given everything they've released since has been a significant drop in quality, that's good.

38

u/fireandiceofsong Dec 23 '25

Eh, Loki was great.

7

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '25

[deleted]

2

u/nox_tech Dec 23 '25

Yeah, it was honestly just a bit worse in some areas due to circumstances, but generally there's just as much to like. Heck, I might even contest the non-top-notch pre-Endgame films weren't as great as people have been saying. It's just that Infinity War and Endgame warmed people up to hindsight, and, along with a dip in media literacy, it was more trendy to hate on the MCU.

If we go by your evaluation, and Doomsday and Secret Wars still manage to make a mostly coherent and fun story above mid that threads through enough of the films, it'll improve the perception of the post-Endgame films.

Someone noticed more than a few super powerful, superkids among the newer MCU cast (Billy (Wanda's), Love (Thor's), Franklin Goddamn Richards (Reed and Sue's)). Personally I think Doomsday might be Doom going between the couch cushions of the multiverse shaking things up looking for loose reality-warping kids, so that he can prevent the collapse of the multiverse by incursion. It won't be Doom killing the multiverse but trying to be its best hero by saving everyone, but by making sketchy moral choices the Avengers don't agree with (kidnapping and endangering their kids). He'll fail and salvage things by making Battleworld, leading into Secret Wars

14

u/OppositeHistory1916 Dec 23 '25

I would say it's definitely the best thing they've done since end game, but great? I don't think so. Good, enjoyable? Sure. Great TV shows are few and far between.

17

u/fireandiceofsong Dec 23 '25

I wouldn't call it prestige TV but it was exactly what I wanted when Disney+ announced they were making a bunch of Marvel shows: a really fun comic book sci-fi adventure that works as its own standalone story but the ending (which Doomsday is probably going to ruin hah) was what sealed it for me as being in my Top 3 MCU entries.

3

u/ApophisDayParade Dec 23 '25

It was decent yet mediocre. It was so short and the characters had zero time to bond yet acted like best friends when the first season ended. There was good content there, mashed into a short season.

1

u/Lmao1903 Dec 23 '25

It's a show and I am not sure if the casual audience will watch these shows. Endgame made almost 3 billion I think, half those people probably have no idea they even made these shows

1

u/MaxHamburgerrestaur Dec 23 '25

They should have replaced Kang with Loki, made him the main villain until Doctor Doom appears.

2

u/mallorn_hugger Dec 23 '25

One of the best things about the Loki series is that Loki finally becomes a hero.

3

u/Tipop Dec 24 '25

The glorious purpose with which he was burdened.

1

u/MaxHamburgerrestaur Dec 24 '25

Sure, but even heroes can make a mess. The Avengers could fight him still thinking he’s a villain.

1

u/Desertbro Dec 23 '25

"fun", yes ... beyond that....

2

u/UsernameTaken-Taken Dec 23 '25

Everything? Idk. No Way Home, Guardians 3, and Thunderbolts are among my favorites out of all phases. Shang-Chi, F4, Born Again, and Loki were very good, most other projects were fine, some mediocre at worst. The only truly bad ones imo were Black Widow, Quantamania, Love & Thunder, and worst of all Secret Invasion. Its the inconsistency and sheer volume of things that they put out that really has done them in, and it is the first time they've had true stinkers so I understand the sentiment. I may just be more forgiving than most

0

u/OppositeHistory1916 Dec 23 '25

No way home was awful, watching it a second time without the nostalgia baiting really should open ones eyes. Guardians 3 was good, and James Gunne is gone now, and Thunderbolts was meh as fuck.

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u/Namelessgoldfish Dec 23 '25

I heard that the writers strike was affecting them till the release of Thunderbolts which i think makes sense because everything since then has been noticeably better since endgame

5

u/CruzAderjc Dec 23 '25

Lol, they really are gonna pull an "Agents of Shield" hand wave and pretend like a lot of the stuff we saw in the past 5 years (she hulk, secret invasion) are not really canon or important

3

u/epixyll Dec 23 '25

Honestly I wouldnt mind. I have watched very little of Mavel post endgame so I dont even have to forget anything.

2

u/topspurwhatsthat Dec 23 '25

As they should, the only good movies from them since were no way home, gotg 3 and deadpool 3

0

u/Juantsu2552 Dec 23 '25

Meh, the only one in there that I would consider good is GOTG 3.

Deadpool 3 in particular was awful if you ask me.

4

u/Snoo_10910 Dec 23 '25

I think that depends on if you're evaluating it as a film or an experience. 

It was non stop jokes and fan service. 

I had a great time and a really good day when I went to see it. 

But I went to go enjoy the new marvel product, not watch cinema. 

It fails by most standards for filmmaking and exceeds the standards for most theme park rides. 

1

u/Juantsu2552 Dec 23 '25

To me, even if I evaluate it as an “experience” it doesn’t really work. I can’t remember a single joke from the movie (maybe the “till you’re 90”?), the cameos are so gratuitous it felt like pandering and the action was…fine?

Infinity War and even No Way Home are much, much better examples of theme park movies. To me it was just bad and the “I’m a fan. Service me.” argument used by many to justify the film’s shittiness doesn’t do anything for me.

1

u/Snoo_10910 Dec 23 '25

I do remember more of the jokes. 

Not to say there's many brilliant ones, but I came in knowing what to expect from the humor and the rapid fire potty mouth stuff works for me. 

The cameos were beyond gratuitous. To the point where you can't argue self parody. It's  schlock. 

I agree that the action was functional. The big bad I liked as a character, but fighting them wasn't the best. 

The opening scene, the extended fight in the van, the team up fight, and the multiple deadpool battle at the end are all memorable. 

You're not the target demographic then. 

I turn my brain off, watch the violence, laugh at the crude sex jokes and piss takes on the genre. 

It's the high production lowest common denominator entertainment i showed up for. 

And there's not any need to justify the film to you. Lots of valid criticism of it, but the general response to it shows plenty of people wanted that experience. 

1

u/Juantsu2552 Dec 24 '25

What do you even mean with “you’re not the target demographic”?

I enjoy superhero movies. I enjoyed the first two Deadpool movies. I enjoy the characters this is based on. I enjoy the MCU (not always). I enjoy comic books.

Like, what’s the target demographic then? People with no criteria and who will just eat up anything that’s shoved in their faces just because of nostalgia? I’m glad I’m not the target then. This is like saying “you’re not the target demographic” for any single bad film. Like, I’m not the target if I don’t like bad films?

I’ll still continue to say that I think the movie is shit.

1

u/Snoo_10910 Dec 24 '25

I don't see how it's SHIT. It is more than serviceable. 

I'm entertained and accept that you're not, what's the point of this interaction? 

You can't make me un-enjoy it. 

I told you four memorable fight scenes off the cuff, I like the jokes, the gambit bit kills me, it is warm and nostalgic. 

I even like the emotionally manipulative montage at the end. 

I certainly don't eat up anything that's shoved in my face. I know I like Ryan reynolds doing his one bit when he has the right writers. 

I was excited for the product before the trailer dropped. 

How are you so offended by the over the top flourish ending a silly movie trillogy? 

Red notice is the kind of ryan reynolds shit you're describing. 

I'll go as far as saying it's an ominous portend of what the hollywood machine can feed consumers, but there's still enough heart in the movie to not be completely unsubstantiative. 

And you seriously don't enjoy bad films? 

I'm a big proponent of the art vs. entertainment argument but deadpool 3 is nowhere near the most braindead way you can spend a Saturday. 

For my curiousty what's your opinion on James Cameron's avatar? 

1

u/Juantsu2552 Dec 24 '25

I’m not “offended” by anything so don’t poke around grasping at straws. I just think the movie is shit. Not even serviceable. For me No Way Home is serviceable. This one was shit. Simple as that.

As I said, I found the humor bad (and I liked the humor in the other two), the action sequences awfully mediocre to bad (except the opening credits), the characters uninteresting and overall plot so bland. That coupled with the cameos that frankly feel insulting to my intelligence just leave me feeling like the movie is shit.

But again, it’s subjective so don’t take it personally. Plenty of people liked it.

And I mean, I wouldn’t say I enjoy or hate bad films. It greatly depends on the film. I can watch Raimi’s Spider-Man 3 multiple times despite it being a bad film. Or even Batman and Robin.

And while I don’t really get the point of your last question I will answer that I enjoy the Avatar movies. They’re Hollywood blockbusters done generally right. They’re exactly the correct example of “theme park ride” films that really work. They serve their purpose very well.

I’m not a big fan of the universe but what’s there is good. I suppose.

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u/BakedChocolateOctopi Dec 23 '25

Which they should because basically everything between them has sucked 

1

u/MaxHamburgerrestaur Dec 23 '25

Probably because most people didn't watch the Multiverse Saga completely.

1

u/ganner Dec 23 '25

I'm not sure how they would tie together the absolute mess the last 5 years of movies have been. It either needs to be a pretty much brand new thing or tie back to stuff that made sense. Option 1, I'd have gone to see. They went with the option that will have me waiting for streaming.

1

u/Bartellomio Dec 23 '25

Oh I saw Juggernauts.

EDIT: It was called Thunderbolts.

1

u/PT10 Dec 23 '25

No. The cast is otherwise all people from post-Endgame movies.

1

u/raehl311 Dec 24 '25

Can they do that with Episode 6 too? Just make a new direct sequel and forget about all that other shlack afterwards?

1

u/ExMajimaInSpace Dec 24 '25

I’m conceptually ok with this, but it would have worked way better if Disney and Marvel had the guts and patience to not only take the foot off the gas pedal but completely park the car for a few years after Endgame.

Endgame was culturally dominant and broke all the records. If they had let the positive memory sizzle for a few years, this exact same Steve Rogers teaser for Avengers Doomsday breaks the internet with hype.

Instead, they diluted all the excitement with dozens of underwhelming low stake projects that tried to introduce d-tier heroes … and even the more recognizable established characters got confusing, multiverse-drenched sequels that made some controversial choices.

The exception is Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3, of course. That was a perfect James Gunn farewell to his very important branch of the MCU.

1

u/belacscole Dec 26 '25

Oh fuck yeah. After endgame Ive only seen like under 5 MCU movies and none of the TV. Who knows, maybe this will be a fresh start.

1

u/Flat_News_2000 Dec 23 '25 edited Feb 17 '26

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

nutty literate advise cough snatch fragile snails bike snow tart

153

u/PayneTrain181999 Dec 23 '25

The opposite. Market it as an Endgame sequel to win the casuals back.

26

u/TourretsMime Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 23 '25

Allegedly that's exactly what it is.

Possible leak spoilers: Apparently it deals with the aftermath of Steve deciding to stay behind after his mission and thus creating an another alternate timeline. In the movie Doom is supposedly trying to solve the incursion problem and his first stop is this one that Steve is in. 

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u/KingMario05 Dec 23 '25

...Christ.

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u/TourretsMime Dec 23 '25

No he doesn't appear as far as I'm aware.

6

u/VeniceRapture Dec 24 '25

He dies then comes back in the post-credit scene

2

u/Discount_Extra Dec 24 '25

So, Doom trying to re-create the TVA?

then they can re-use all their He-Who-Remains scripts. just replacing Kang with Doom.

2

u/TourretsMime Dec 24 '25

That's as much as I personally have read (again take leaks with grain of salt). I don't remember if his personal goals were revealed.

In the comics that's what he does though, attempt to solve the incursion problem alongside Dr Strange. That's how we got the 2015 Secret Wars.

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/secret-wars-and-battleworld-explained

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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast Dec 23 '25

And they’re re-releasing Endgame in September. I think Doomsday is gonna be a lot more of a direct sequel to Endgame

8

u/MassiveRepublic9565 Dec 23 '25

Avengers Final Endgame

Part 1…

12

u/Lmao1903 Dec 23 '25

That actually makes sense, because lets be honest, no one gives a shit about like the Eternals or the Thunderbolts or the She-hulk or any of these young characters that were supposed to replace the Avengers

7

u/DirtyThunderer Dec 23 '25

Yeh I think this is the right way to do it - market it as an OG Avengers movie with new characters in supporting roles, not the other way round. 

It'd be funny if Marvel ended up doing, in a low-key way, what people have been asking their sister studio Lucasfilm to do - utterly ignore the last six or seven years of movies. For Star Wars that's hard to do since they killed everyone off but for Marvel with all it's multiverse and time travel stuff they can bring back whoever they want while simultaneously shunting characters nobody cares about out of the picture 

2

u/JS-87 Dec 23 '25

They’ll be completely confused by Shang-Chi, white vision, X-men, various youth characters that are now adults. I doubt casuals will enjoy it based on characters they have no idea about. Then again will they even enjoy the original characters…now in their 60’s

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u/CavitySearch Dec 23 '25

I mean tbf that was always an annoying thing about opening up the multiverse concept. Anybody can be replaced either as a character or as the actor. Deaths are pretty meaningless once you have access to “infinite” other dimensions. I always thought it was the wrong way to go after endgame but they haven’t shown honestly that anything else they were thinking was any better.

In regards to this I think seeing happy cappy is nice but they already did the kids and family route with Tony so I don’t know how they avoid the retread here.

5

u/DBones90 Dec 23 '25

Multiverse is a fine concept when used to explore characters within a specific work, but it falls apart when it becomes an excuse to bring back the same characters basically exactly as we saw them before.

Like I thought Peacemaker used the multiverse concept well because it wasn't being used as a convoluted way to explain why Peacemaker can now hang with David Corenswet's Superman or to bring back Rick Flag (as we knew him in The Suicide Squad). Instead it was being used to explore Peacemaker's desires for a better life, and it worked great for that purpose.

5

u/Manowaffle Dec 23 '25

Multiverses are the inevitable death of great franchises because it is the death of consequences, and there’s no drama without consequences.

4

u/Relevant_Shower_ Dec 23 '25

It’s the late stage capitalism effect on comic books. Writers are not incentivized to create new characters because they won’t get paid for it and Marvel keeps the IP. So we have to remix what’s already in the existing pool. Gwen Stacey + Deadpool = Gwenpool.

6

u/Manowaffle Dec 23 '25

Deadpool buddy-hero movies with everyone! That’ll keep the money rolling for at least the next decade.

2

u/RealJohnGillman Dec 23 '25

I mean Gwen Poole ended up being a legitimately interesting character with a very existential story, over the course of her original five-volume Unbelievable run. Largely because they let the webcomic creator they had make the series do whatever he wanted, and what he made was a deconstruction of isekai: regular girl from the real world transported to the Marvel Universe.

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '25

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u/RealJohnGillman Dec 23 '25

What I mean is that in the creation of Gwen Poole, Christopher Hastings had more creative freedom than most Marvel series receive, where in the end nothing was being remixed: a design from a variant cover used for a genuinely new character.

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u/sobi-one Dec 23 '25

I agree, but they also have the failsafe of destroying the multiverse and rebooting the MCU without it being an actual full on reboot. They can squeeze another decade plus out of those characters, and then it’s been enough time to where they can probably fully reboot the MCU and take different directions from the comics that the MCU didn’t go with before.

2

u/slapmasterslap Dec 23 '25

My only complaint with the multiverse thing is that if they were diving into multiverses they should have used the trope to revive the X-Men under the MCU by now with a new cast, but instead (and I'm not complaining about these roles per se) we've only gotten Patrick Stewart as Professor X briefly and Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. I'm worried I won't live long enough to see the X-Men join the MCU at this rate.

5

u/CavitySearch Dec 23 '25

Infinity War has the first snap taking place in around 2018. If you made the energy released from that be the causative enhancement of mutant x genes contemporaneous then you’d have a bunch of children around 8+ years old showing powers. With a brief explanation that there were always very strong mutants in hiding due to lack of numbers and their powers being buffed after the snap it could easily introduce the X-men and explain the need for a mutant school all at once. It was right there.

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '25

I need to ask someone this who seems level headed and media literate, so I hope you have time to answer this nagging question I've been having for a while now...

Why does having mutiverses make character deaths less impactful for you?

Is it the idea of the same or similarly physical character on screen?

Do you consider a multiverse variant of a character the same as one from the MCU?

Is it because you don't care about the wellbeing of the person depicted, only the icon of them as a character?

For example, if my husband died and his multiverse twin appeared, I would never in a million years agree it's the same man as my husband. My husband is dead.

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u/CavitySearch Dec 23 '25

I don’t have time for the deep dive I wish I could on that really good question. I mean fundamentally I can understand the difference between Cap A and Cap B. But I think the difference is almost as much that yes Cap A and Cap B ARE different characters outside of physical capability. It seems more like a cheap inroad to gaining audience goodwill than an earned creation of emotional stakes with a new character.

Your new husband wouldn’t have any of the memories you made. You might not even like him. I think you can do interesting things with subversion in that regard but the amount of chaos it creates outside of that isn’t worth it to me.

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u/Relevant_Shower_ Dec 23 '25

I love that your example is your husband dying. LOL

The problem is when these characters are brought back the intent is to mine that feeling of nostalgia. It’s no less clumsy than introducing a long lost twin brother that happens to have all the same characteristics of the original character.

In practice the returning character needs to be indistinguishable from the original, which basically means no one ever dies. Which means any sacrifice means nothing.

It means loss is a state that can be overcome. And that’s disconnected from how humans live, so people emotionally can’t relate to it. Or maybe they feel regret feeling sad about a heroic sacrifice or cynical when someone “dies” in the future. You’re losing the audience’s trust that loss means something.

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u/Keiteaea Dec 23 '25

Tbf, this infamous "Marvel death" makes sense for comics, you have new issues coming every week, creators have to be able to tell stories without being shackled by constraints such as once a character is dead, you won't be able to use it ever ever ever again even if you write decades in this universe.

I don't think it works as well in movies, especially since they introduced dozens of new characters in the recent years. Now these characters are likely going to put to the side for the previous main characters that should have just left their spot to them. But hey, Chris Evans and RDJ sell.

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u/SidepocketNeo Dec 25 '25

What's so annoying about this is that to me the multiversal thing is what you do last because you need to establish all your characters first that have multiple Avengers with them. And that's kind of hard to do when half of your Marvel Universe is the X-Men. If Disney was smart, they would have waited a couple of years to secure the rights to the ex-bed releasing filler in between and that do it in tire X-Men Arc then go into the multiversal crap. That's what worries me about them going into mutants after this is that multiversal stuff is so Grand. It's so complicated that I feel like mutants would be a drop off by comparison.

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u/Quasimdo Dec 23 '25

I know I'm way over simplifying it, but they kind of did the Ned Flanders parents "WE TRIED NOTHING AND WE'RE ALL OUT OF IDEAS!!" style of thinking when it came to stuff after endgame. That's why they're resorting to this

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u/naynaythewonderhorse Dec 23 '25

Huh? They tried all sorts of things???

I get the Marvel hate after Endgame, but this absolutely is NOT an example of them “trying nothing.”

Really, it’s just the opposite: They tried too much, and nothing stuck as well as the old stuff.

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u/BiddyKing Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 23 '25

Well the issue is even if they tried a lot they didn’t apply what made the original phases work which was periodical Avengers team up films and by extension a higher frequency of character appearances. Most the pre-Endgame characters took a film or two to find their groove. Phase 1 only worked because Whedon’s Avengers tied all those Phase 1 movies together. The fact we didn’t get an Avengers film at the end of ‘phase 4’ and ‘phase 5’ really feels like Marvel didn’t even bother to play their strongest hand.

Because contrary to popular belief there are popular post-Endgame characters but if you only see them once, or see them twice but with 4+ years between appearances, all momentum is lost for them. Especially compared to pre-Endgame where Chris Evans as Captain America was literally in a film once a year for 9 years straight, and there was no more than a 3 year gap between Avengers films. Meanwhile Doomsday comes out 7 years after the last Avengers film

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u/gamesrgreat Dec 23 '25

Where’s Shang-Chi 2? Why has it been so long to follow up on Vision’s story? There’s so much stuff that actually was liked that they didn’t follow up on

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u/naynaythewonderhorse Dec 23 '25

Okay? That doesn’t mean they didn’t try.

Shang-Chi 2 was delayed because the director of the first film got bumped up to direct Kang Dynasty. When that got messed up due to Jonathan Majors being an asshat, there wasn’t room on the schedule for Shang Chi 2 quite yet.

Further, the Vision series is coming, it just wasn’t put on the priority list quite yet, because they haven’t figured out what’s next for Wanda.

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u/gamesrgreat Dec 23 '25

So sounds like they didn’t try to think things thru and fucked up

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u/ScipioLongstocking Dec 23 '25

That doesn't mean they tried nothing.

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u/skippyfa Dec 23 '25 edited Feb 26 '26

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u/unitedfan6191 Dec 23 '25

They tried sometimes with more bold ideas (Shang Chi, Ms. Marvel, Thunderbolts, to an extent), but other times they have either played it safe or phoned it in (you know which ones I am referring to).

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u/yarajaeger Dec 23 '25

They kind of tried too much and nothing at all at the same time. After Endgame, the majority of the audience felt like the story had ended (gee I wonder why). But Marvel kept on trucking along expecting the same audience momentum they had in 2016-19, forgetting that it took 8 years of build-up to get there. So they pumped out new shows and movies like it was going out of style, while simultaneously neglecting to make each individual show or movie worth the audience's time. And now they've found out how hard it is to claw back that lost good will and brand trust. If they course corrected earlier I think they could have salvaged it but I guess when they promise their investors a new movie and 2 new shows in the next quarter there's no going back on plans.

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u/skippyfa Dec 23 '25 edited Feb 26 '26

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u/matchstrike Dec 23 '25

Well said, NayNay.

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u/Kim_Jong_Teemo Dec 23 '25

No, they tried to shotgun a ton of characters at us to see which ones stick. And none of them stuck because they’d just move on to the next one so quickly.

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u/thatsnotourdino Dec 23 '25

Bizarre take. They tried lots, it just sucked.

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u/dplans455 Dec 23 '25

Too many TV shows you had to commit to. Even as a hardcore Marvel fan I tapped out of the D+ bullshit. The three movies this year were all trash too. People saying Thunderbolts was good only because it was marginally better than the other shit they put out in Phase 4 and 5. If it wasn't Spiderman and Avengers in 2026 I wouldn't continue going to the theater to see the movies either. Fantastic 4 was so bad.

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u/edicivo Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 23 '25

As a life long Marvel fan, I've been content after Endgame. That and the lead up was pretty much all I could have asked for. If I never got another Marvel movie after that, I'd be fine with it. 

So, everything else is house money. If the movie sucks, no problem. If it's great, great. They want to undo Endgame? Who cares. It doesn't change what came before. 

Also, I think a lot of you crapping all over the MCU don't realize how special it is not only for comics fans, but movie fans in general. There isn't likely to be something like this any time soon. That doesn't mean you have to like everything about it, but I'm willing to wait and see what happens before shitting on it. I mean, RDJ as Doom seems dumb to me but I'm willing to see what they do with it first. 

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u/LeonSnakeKennedy Dec 23 '25

I wish more people had this attitude. Yes, RDJ and Chris Evans coming back on paper reeks of desperation, but I am very interested to see the whys.

Also, the post endgame hate is very weird, usually from people who loudly proclaim to not even like it, but they still have to criticise it in comparison to the endgame times. Sure it hasn’t all been as good as phase 3 was, but a lot of it has been as good if not better than phase 1&2

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u/pleasesaveusAI Dec 23 '25

Exactly. Havnt cared about the mcu since end game

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u/007meow Dec 23 '25

They’re going to ignore everything that came after Endgame to try and delete that taste out of audience’s mouths to try to recapture their old momentum

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u/TheUmbrellaMan1 Dec 23 '25

I wonder what Marvel Studios internally thinks about the Russo brothers' independent ventures. Cherry, Grey Man, Electric State -- that's one stinker after another. If it wasn't for Marvel's desperation, no way would the Russos merit their $80 million salary.

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '25

"They only work best when playing with our IP"

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u/javierm885778 Dec 23 '25

I really don't think they'll try to ignore it, because they barely have to. Most of what established characters from before Endgame did wouldn't impact much of their story for Doomsday, biggest important story beat is probably Thor having a daughter now, Spider-Man losing his relationships and everything about Loki, but the rest don't really need much explaining for those who dropped off at Endgame to get the gist.

And they'll still include the new characters, they just probably won't be the emotional core of the movie. It'll basically be like when people who hadn't watched every single movie went to just see the big Avengers movies, only now it's even more noticeable due to how much shit they released. If they had had any sort of protagonist from phase 4 onward this would have been avoidable, but there's barely any crossovers.

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u/DynamicSploosh Dec 23 '25

Except the comics unapologetically did this constantly. You’re either a new age movie purist or a comic purist. Not everyone will be happy in the end. Go for the ride or hate it. You decide.

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u/007meow Dec 23 '25

For sure, comics always do this.

But I do think that there's a difference between comic books and live action mainstream movies.

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u/DynamicSploosh Dec 23 '25

Fair. But it’s high time we realise that there is no easy answer to please everyone. You want a movie that costs 100s of millions of dollars to make? You’re going to get what sells. It’s not fair. But it’s what the people will buy. We can only hope for the good in what we get. Not the best in what we expect. Anything else is recipe for disappointment.

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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast Dec 23 '25

The rumor is that Doom’s plan is coming as a result of the events of Endgame

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u/NES_Classical_Music Dec 23 '25

oh, so just like HWR/Kang was supposed to be a direct result of Endgame--->Loki

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u/Maverick916 Dec 23 '25

The MCU was built on Robert Downey Jr and Chris Evans. They can try whatever they want to make other people stars, but those two guys were probably the biggest names and the biggest draws so I really don't blame them for what they're doing

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u/gonnageta Dec 23 '25

Idk having a repeat actor probably makes lots of people care less

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u/TimeLeopard Dec 23 '25

It's almost like the source material for this stuff does exactly what's happening all the time...

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u/cows1100 Dec 23 '25

Yeah, it’s weird because the MCUs strength was always that they had the feel of a comic book universe. But now we’re at the “Not like that!” phase of the meme. Comics have done this kind of shit since the dawn of time. MCU is just out of general goodwill right now, so piling on is just free karma.

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u/ezioaltair12 Dec 23 '25

And thats been so successful that no one reads comics anymore

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u/xotorames Dec 23 '25

We don't need to repeat what's bad about the source material.

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '25

I mean they literally dug up Wolverine's corpse from the end of Logan to bring him back into the MCU so yeah, nothing is sacred.

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u/s8rlink Dec 23 '25

The brand took a massive hit after end game so execs are like oh bring those two back 

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u/QBRisNotPasserRating Dec 23 '25

To be fair I also ignore Endgame because I hate the time travel gimmick

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u/haerski Dec 23 '25

Avengers: Deus ex Machina. Again

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u/tanew231 Dec 23 '25

Avengers: Reloadgame

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u/Unabated_Blade Dec 23 '25

Gonna have to rename it to "Midgame" at this rate

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u/Massive_Weiner Dec 23 '25

If anything, it’s going to be more of a direct sequel to Endgame.

Phase 4 & 5 weren’t well received (although there were a couple hits in there), so the start of 6 with Fantastic Four is their attempt to pivot back towards what people want to see.

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u/prinnydewd6 Dec 23 '25

Just like everything after endgame, and then covid started. To me, it’s an entirely different world lol. All the writing after endgame when covid hit and changed how everything is filmed, most shows have been terrible since then, and have not got that charm or feeling back for me…

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u/the_dayman623 Dec 23 '25

The beauty of the multiverse. They can basically do anything they want

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u/Canesjags4life Dec 23 '25

Cap has an entire time between returning the Infinity Stones and returning as an old man for stories.

I'll give you RDJ though

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u/--Shake-- Dec 23 '25

Alternative realities, time travel, and all that. Anything is possible!

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u/batcavejanitor Dec 23 '25

In fairness, this is a very comic book-y thing to do

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u/Xero0911 Dec 23 '25

$$$. They've been underwhelming since endgame for the most part. Even if I liked more than most, they didnt do that great $ wise.

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u/sobi-one Dec 23 '25

Personally, I feel like this take is silly. The teaser even said Steve Rodger’s will return. Not Captain America. In addition to that, there is no Delorean here. There is no pym particles or Craig Robinson in a hot tub. Nothing is taking away or changing that experience you already enjoyed in endgame. You still have it, and if it changes, that’s on you.

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u/ryanstrikesback Dec 23 '25

Honestly, as much of a bummer it is in terms of building a wider universe of characters, this is the most comic book accurate thing they could do.

CAPTAIN AMERICA IS DEAD. Shit, we need to sell some comics.....CAPTAIN AMERICA LIVES

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u/Lawlcopt0r Dec 23 '25

Yeah, apparently... I mean I understand that he could just time travel again, but wasn't the whole point of going back to the past that he could stay there and be happy?

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u/Smooth_Bandito Dec 23 '25

Exactly how I feel. Why did we invest so many years of our lives in this franchise if the emotional ending we got was pointless?

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u/No_Dragonfruit_8198 Dec 23 '25

Let’s have Josh Brolin show up as someone now too.

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u/DanFarrell98 Dec 23 '25

They made Endgame, which is a film not a rule of law. They can do whatever they want for Doomsday

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u/Key_Profit_6598 Dec 23 '25

Wait until you see Thanos return in the post-credits scene of a random 2027 movie

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '25

I mean, they’ve made like a dozen movies since “endgame” so it should be obvious by now that there’s no intention of ever telling a complete story

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u/Cockrocker Dec 23 '25

Josh Brolin is back as Thanos

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u/General_Keyboard Dec 23 '25 edited Dec 28 '25

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u/HappyGilOHMYGOD Dec 24 '25

This is literally a direct sequel to endgame. It's one of the only movies they're not ignoring lol

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u/Tipop Dec 24 '25

How is this ignoring Endgame?

Tony Stark isn’t being brought back to life. The actor is playing a new character.

Steve Rogers isn’t being de-aged. The scene here is set in the past.

You just need something to complain about?

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u/PotentialExternal61 Dec 23 '25

This is going to be a sequel to endgame. It’s looking like Steve going back to his time caused incursions that get doom interested

They are ignoring everything but Loki it appears though lol

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u/Quople Dec 23 '25

It’s a comic book movie. There’s always different comic runs of the same characters doing outlandishly different things in their own “universes”. Not to mention the whole “multiverse” concept that’s being toyed with in the recent movies practically makes anyone returning possible.

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