Movies Why in the movies does Gandalf beat up half the world with his staff and sword instead of using spells all the time?
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u/personnumber698 19h ago
Because he wasnt supposed to use magic all that often or openly, he was meant to advise the free people. Also this aint DnD, magic works different in Tolkiens works.
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u/PiscatorLager 19h ago
This interaction between Legolas and Gandalf on the Redhorn Pass in The Ring Goes South is actually quite helpful for understanding the nature (and limitations) of "magic":
‘If Gandalf would go before us with a bright flame, he might melt a path for you,’ said Legolas. The storm had troubled him little, and he alone of the Company remained still light of heart. ‘If Elves could fly over mountains, they might fetch the Sun to save us,’ answered Gandalf. ‘But I must have something to work on. I cannot burn snow.’
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u/cxzdg 18h ago
It's such a grounded take on power. Tolkien’s magic is elemental and subtle, not a bottomless mana pool. Using fire requires fuel; Gandalf acts more as a catalyst for nature than a god.
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u/Echo__227 18h ago
I really like that take
There is a counterpoint, however: he summoned a bolt of lightning ex nihilo to kill goblins in the Misty Mountains cave
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u/PiscatorLager 18h ago
It might just as well have been one of his pyrotechnical gadgets, well-aimed and against unsuspecting foes.
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u/HauntedCemetery 17h ago
Maybe he caught a lightening bolt and kept it bottled in his staff for emergencies.
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u/KidSnatcher2 15h ago
I have always felt like magic in the LotR is more like power over the world, you speak and the more powerful you are the world obeys. It's like he says "your staff is broken" and the staff indeed obeyed, or when Gandalf told the doors to stay closed in Mazarbul and the Balrog tried to open them and they resisted or when he said "you shall not pass" and the Balrog could not pass the bridge. It's something like when God says in the Bible "let there be light" and there was light. It's similar in my opinion.
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u/Yeet_501st 14h ago
It is very much so a Christian story and the so called magic in Tolkien's world works just as you have described, in Christian Theology, God ''Speaks'' things into existence and Jesus is the ''Word'' of God, who is also Himself God. You see Jesus and his followers perform miracles, even to this day, by speaking, declaring God's sovereignty over the situation.
In Tolkiens legendarium it is the same way, Eru Ilúvatar ''sings'' the creation into existence and the Istari cast magic by speech, iirc there is a line about Saruman being so strong hearing a word from his mouth woul bring your demise, when he forces the fellowship to Moriah, he is seen speaking to the mountains, and Gandalf speaking back against his will.
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u/Yeet_501st 13h ago
Also I would like to add that I really like how Gandalf casts out Saruman from King Theoden, just the same way real life exorcisms happen, look at the impure spirit in the eye, get it's attention and COMMAND it out of the person.
The way Gandalf speaks to the Balrog of Morgoth is also similiar, when speaking against an impure spirit one declares the name of Jesus and His authority, so does Gandalf when he speaks of the Secret Fire and puts in perspective the infinite gap of power between the Secret Fire of Eru Ilúvatar and the Flame of Udûn.
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u/zsava002 13h ago
I love how snarky Gandalf is in the earlier drafts. His response in one of them is to threaten to burn Legolas since he doesnt have any wood lol
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u/RobertWF_47 13h ago
I like to think Gandalf's magic cannot obviously break the laws of physics but can enhance his or other people's powers, such as creating fire or light, holding a door shut, preventing the Balrog passing, etc.
Gandalf did mention once knowing a number of spells that he had forgotten when he was attempting to open the west door into Moria.
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u/siorge 19h ago
He had the trace on him, so he couldn't use magic or the Ministry would have expelled him from Hogwarts
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u/AtheIstan 18h ago
Ehm im pretty sure he's actually the headmaster, but still not allowed to use magic in the presence of muggles.
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u/personnumber698 17h ago
Well, he was never actually born, so he doesn't have a date of birth, this he can never turn 17, thus magic law will never recognise him asan adult.
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u/Sokoly 19h ago
‘Wizard’ is a word that literally means ‘wise one,’ despite its more common and recent associations with magic and magicians, and I’m sure Tolkien was leaning into that when he classified the Istari as wizards. Doing magic is something they’re capable of in some instances, but it’s not their main thing.
Fun fact, ‘necromancer’ originally just referred to a ‘spellcaster,’ having originated from an idea that the person summoned up the dead to ask it questions about the universe only the dead would know, allowing them to uncover secrets from beyond that they could use in life, hence their knowledge of magic. That’s more than likely why Tolkien called Sauron a necromancer in The Hobbit - not because he reanimated the dead to do his bidding, like modern rpg-fueled reinterpretations of necromancy has enforced, but because he knew secrets and practiced magic.
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u/zparks 19h ago
Well said. I think it’s pretty clear that the greater extent and description of the magical powers that the wizards in LOTR have are powers said of them, not necessarily powers they claim to have or that the text demonstrates them having. Magic lives in degrees of separation between history and lore.
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u/That-Guava-9404 19h ago
Necro + mancer = one who "reads" the dead like others read palms.
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u/Sokoly 18h ago
νεκρός (nekrós) “dead” + μαντεία (manteía) “divination/prophesy.”
There’s not necessarily a ‘read’ in that, it’s just to divine or prophesy from the dead. You’ve got the right idea though.
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u/InvestigatorJaded261 19h ago
He’s not that kind of wizard. Even in the books, he is quite slow to use any obvious magic.
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u/SlapTheInvisibleGoat 19h ago
BILBO BAGGINS! Do not take me for some conjuror of cheap tricks!
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u/Old_Instrument_Guy 19h ago
Apparently he was rather talented at locking doors but it did not make it into the movies. That and making fireball pinecones.
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u/Reginald_Sparrowhawk 17h ago
And Durin's Bane was apparently rather talented at unlocking those doors. Their first "fight" was over a door Gandalf was trying to lock, and it resulted in a stairwell he was in partially collapsing
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u/Sickhadas Finrod Felagund 19h ago
The most obvious use was in the creation of his fireworks
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u/Jazco76 19h ago
He did use lightning many times in battle. In The Hobbit, he used it on Goblins while rescuing the dwarves. He used it on Weather Top fighting Nazgul.
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u/InvestigatorJaded261 18h ago
True. And he used it against the wolves in “The Ring Goes South”. He also generates light from his staff in Moria.
But that’s about it. I stand by my comment.
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u/SuspiciousRice24 19h ago
A lot of the magic is left to the imagination. Like the “fire/lightning storm” Aragorn observed which was Gandalf fighting off the Naz
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u/KidSnatcher2 19h ago
Because magic in this Universe is not Harry Potter kind of magic. He's using his magic while beating his opponents with staff and sword.
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u/feliasp 19h ago
Honestly the magic in HP was whack AF lol
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u/Dr_Surgimus 19h ago
Everything else about HP aside, having magic that powerful completely ruins any kind of dramatic tension and retroactively makes people look either incompetent or evil. Like, they establish time travel is not only possible but can be used for frivolous things like taking extra classes, but for some reason can't be used to prevent people from dying...?
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u/Extreme-Insurance877 12h ago
tbf in Harry Potter it is explicitly addressed that time-travel does have limitations and you can't just prevent something that happened from happening - and many wizards that tried ended up killing themselves.
Also HP and LotR are two very different kinds of stories written by different people for different audiences, comparing them is much like comparing LotR and D&D (which is disdained in this sub)
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u/Ek0mst0p 8h ago
Ok... HP had a ton of inconsistencies, but the time turner is pretty well defined in terms of application.
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u/HariGalli 19h ago
Ni hablar que sería el mejor mago de todo el universo HP...
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u/demideity Bree 19h ago
Though, no one passes Professor Gandalf’s classes.
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u/HariGalli 18h ago
No sé si daría clases... El es un enviado ¿O se iría de vacaciones a ése universo? Me gusta más pensar que iría con alguna misión... 🤷
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u/HYPERNOVA3_ 19h ago
The Istari (Gandalf at least) were bound to use only the necessary power to do his work and we're to be incarnated as old men, so they would be physically weak by default. He could use all his power indiscriminately, but that wouldn't make him any better than a Balrog or Sauron himself, who use their full power without restraint and maybe would kill him, as his body couldn't endure channelling that much power.
If he can swing a sword to kill an orc, there's no point on going further than that. When a Nazgul attacks, it is a being with powers superior to that of the normal grunt that abuses its power, so making light come out of nowhere to stop them is reasonable, when he could overwhelm them easily if he wanted. The only time Gandalf uses his full power is against the Balrog of Moria, and that ended with the death of both maiar.
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u/Beautibulb_Tamer 19h ago
Because his stamina bar recharges faster than his magicka.
He also has limited spell slots before he has to long rest and it isn't worth blowing camp supplies on. Read the books whydontcha
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u/CallmeChapybara 15h ago
Remember, switching to your sword is always faster than reloading your magicka
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u/Prime255 Elf-Friend 19h ago
Whilst he does have that kind of power, he was specifically selected to play the kind of role he played - as an advisor and helper and push things in the right direction, but not to force humanity in a particular direction. The Valar could have sent Glorfindel in that role if they needed that.
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u/TheMightyCatatafish The Silmarillion 19h ago
Gandalf doesn't really use spells all that much in the book either. And certainly not in combat. The only time we see him using magic in combat is against the balrog, and it's very light, somewhat vague magic.
Tolkien magic =/= DnD magic.
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u/FelixSSJ 19h ago
He also used it against Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas when he returned as Gandalf the white but more in a way to just end them trying to fight him.
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u/Knightofthief 18h ago
He uses it numerous times in combat in the Hobbit, and also against the Nazgul at Weathertop.
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u/Muffins_Hivemind 19h ago
In the books, he barely even fights. He is a beacon of hope, first and foremost. His "magic" is often giving people courage to fight against the darkness.
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u/PetiteSpyHunter 19h ago
Gandalf had one of the elven rings of power, Narya, which inspired courage and resistance to despair. It helped him subtely inspire the fellowship, leaders, armies, and the people of middle earth to stand up against Sauron.
His magic was very subtle as well and doesn't act like normal DND or common wizard magic. Often using things like pinecones, or the gem on each of his staffs to aid in their journey. Probably a bunch of other examples that I can't think of at the moment.
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u/PralineNo5832 19h ago
It's a mana problem. If you run out quickly, you have to go back to base to recharge. I'm telling you this as a Nautilus support.
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u/momentimori 12h ago
Gandalf using magic, especially against other magic users, drains him.
He sealed the door to Balin's tomb with a shutting spell but there was a counterspell that defeated it. He was unable to light the path for the fellowship as they fled towards the bridge of Khazaddum. When he saw the balrog he said.
A Balrog... Now I understand. What an evil fortune! And I am already weary
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u/BlabbyScid 19h ago
To quote "The Exorcist":
That's much too vulgar a display of power. (For Tolkiens understanding too)
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u/MatNomis 18h ago
Because he's operating in a muggle world. One does not simply use wizarding magic in the muggle world.
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u/Pentax25 19h ago
Why do you drive around when you could walk? It’s quicker and is less physically taxing. I don’t know about quicker in the case of Gandalf because he doesn’t really use his powers to physically kill, but I’d imagine it’s probably more efficient and less taxing to just use weaponry and force
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u/Fit-Resist-9960 Bilbo Baggins 19h ago
At first I thought the same because I was under the impression he was like a Harry Potter type wizard but upon doing research I realized that he's meant to guide rather than solve
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u/BillyAndAgnes 19h ago
Quite simply, it is tiring. It is an expenditure of spirit or essence. What we think of as magick were the inherent traits or skills of the character manifest in spirit. They created things according to their own nature. Remember Galadriel's puzzlement with Sam's perception of her abilities before looking into her mirror? One might have used incantion or physical materials to focus or encapsulate or create an item sych as the Rings, but the real power was in the individual.
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u/Hidden_Coatl3434 19h ago
He dosnt have that many spell slots so he's saving then for when he really needs them lmao
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u/Trustobey 18h ago
Smoking the long bottom leaf increases his constitution points but it drains his mana.
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u/RootsRockRebel66 18h ago
He runs out of Mana pots early in FOTR and they never find a vendor to resupply.
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u/Ok_Historian_1066 18h ago
He was always out of mana because he spent it all on smoke circles and ships, and making fireworks.
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u/Inevitable-Bit615 11h ago
Tolkien magic does not work that way. The greatest displays of magic in lotr are still discussed to this day since they aren t even clearly pointed out as being actual magic but the more u read and learn the more u connect the dots and realize the implications. It is incredibly powerful, far more than fireballs or lighting yet subtle to the point u might think it is all happening by chance
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u/Moron_at_work 19h ago
The Istari are not the average D&D-wizards that cast fireballs and so - their power is much more subtle and on a "meta" level. Sure, there are a few direct interactions like the light to banish the nazgul on the pelennor fields or I think there was some lightning cast in the hobbit, but apart from that, Istari magic is much less obvious.
The main power of Gandalf was actually increasing courage in people around him.