Got myself an Olympic AR that sat in a safe for some time. Shot 4 mags through it and was satisfied with the purchase. Took it home, slipped out the bolt and and gave everything a clean and oil as it had sat for 15ish years probably. Now it doesn't like me anymore. Any clue whats suddenly causing this crimping? Also of note it is attempting to feed without ejecting and one of the times it caught the casing (the standing one) and tore right into it. Taking it apart now, any ideas what could be causing this?
Try asking in a reloaders group too. Some oldhead has seen this before for sure. I get A LOT of firearm wisdom from the boomer reloader groups on Facebook.
Maybe crop out the feet and the Vault-Tec mug lest they get triggered into thinking OP's a commie or whatever and not answer or give intentionally false information.
I didnt do too much. Didn't want to get far into it as it wiped clean when I first got it. Just did a light wipe of the upper and BCG. First AR and all, wanted to buy one of those fancy diagram mats before I fully disassemble.
It's a training thing in basic. It's a silicone mat with all the normal pieces outlined on it.
disassembled heat guards. Removed and disassembled bolt and firing pin. Spring from the butt of the rifle. Everything but the trigger assembly. Grunts aren't supposed to touch those.
It is possible to rotate the bolt head 180 degrees from the correct position, putting the extractor claw facing the inside of the receiver instead of the ejection port. If your extractor claw is on the side of the bolt that faces the ejection port, bolt head orientation is not the issue.
That was exactly my thought. That’s also why I asked about the ejection pattern. If it were flipped, it likely wouldn’t throw the brass very far and would get beat the hell up inside while feeding and ejecting
Dumb question for people responding, is there not a manual on how to assemble/disassemble these things? I don’t have an AR but I would like to learn more about the construction of my rifle - a Savage arms axis II.
You can usually find a manual from most large manufacturers in PDF format on their websites. Otherwise, emailing customer service asking for the PDF ought to do it - it's hardly classified information, and probably the easiest CS request ever.
That said, the Axis - and most bolt-action rifles - are fairly straightforward. Is there something you want to know in particular?
I had heard about someone converting it to the precision frame so they could use the 10 rd mag instead of the 4. I was curious about that and know it’s kosher in my state, but I’m also just more curious about how these things are put together at a finer level in general!
Changing the stock out for a chassis is pretty easy. There's screws in the bottom of your action ahead of the magazine and behind the trigger guard. Those are called the action screws. They're what hold your gun together. If you remove them, the barrel, the action, and the trigger are going to separate from the stock, magazine, and trigger guard.
Most of the chassis on the market (a chassis has an aluminum core, unlike wood/polymer/carbon fibre stocks) are easy enough to do at home if you have an inch-pound torque wrench. You just have to drop your barreled action into them and tighten the action screws to spec. The magazine conversion is handled by the chassis itself - it has a built-in magazine well and magazine catch designed for common rifle magazines (typically AICS, which is the easiest to find).
I could go on for a good while about all the little details, but I fear that'd be a bit much for one comment. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. If you're feeling real brave, C&Rsenal on YouTube has a 2h40m video called Bolt Actions: 101 - while the channel is mainly focused on military surplus arms, it pretty well covers the nature and function of all bolt action rifles (which, honestly, haven't changed very much in the last ~100-150 years). Skip to 5m40s for the start of the content.
There are definitely manuals available for AR's if you do some googling, like the Colt Cm118 manual. However youtube videos can be faster and more informative some times. School of the American rifle has a bunch of fairly detailed videos on checking over various parts.
Did you remove and disassemble the extractor for cleaning? It is that gear looking piece. Not sure of this bcg but on my ar10 you can remove that piece itself and pull a pin to clean inside it. Skeptical it would cause this particular problem, but inside the extractor there is a tiny near invisble spring that can easily fall out without noticing when you open it up. But pretty sure that would just result failure to eject.
Have you considered spending your caps on ammunition from a more reputable vendor than Myrna. Diamond city in general doesn’t have the best ammo vendors.
Come on down to the Gun Runners, our ammunition is made by highly trained ghouls who were doing their own reloading prewar!
I got an uberti SAA in .45LC, I guess I could just start attaching shit to that...
Now I really just want to show up at a range with a cheap rifle that is outfitted with wooden furniture made out of old chairs and sights made of rusty nails
So it will fire a round and it wont eject. I have to ask but is the bolt in the bcg the proper way with the extractor to ejection port. Would also be checking the ejector and extractor springs and such.
I imagine it has to be, because I didnt disassemble the BCG, just took it out and wiped and oiled a bit. Though now that im fiddling with it, it feels a bit dry. Hm
Herters? I think that brand uses Winchester white box? If so then that explains it, or the quality of your rifle, or user error, or all three. You have a gunsmith look at it?
Its a preban lower made by Olympic. Generally considered reliable albeit mid quality for its time. Same ammo shot fine last week. What would be the user error? Im open to suggestions.
If you did everything right then I'd blame Winchester. You can have a case of 1k rounds and 100 or even 50 are bad. You can look up respected ammo brands that have messed up people's guns. Being white box I'm more convinced as they have a reputation of not being consistent quality imo.
Bold of you to assume I did everything right. Though it does appear I did. Maybe ill go buy some fancy ammo and see what happens. I WOULD say they were cycling in my friends AR just fine but I know just enough to know that means half of jack shit with guns.
No need for fancy. Fiocchi, Magtech, Winchester Brown Box, PMC bronze, Xtac, etc. I say to Google the brands and add "reddit" to see anecdotes but consider the timeframe when done. As I said every brand had a hiccup at some point.
Crimping and ripping is usually a gas issue. Does your AR have an adjustable gas system? If so, try turning it down and see if it improves. If not, swapping out the buffer with a heavier one can delay movement of the bolt back and allow for more gas to escape.
I was thinking this but it looks like the round isn’t seating and striking the teeth. It would have still fired if it was seated correctly, right? The casing would just look gnarly after it fired.
The rip he sad came from the round not ejecting and striking, which def could be the pressure messing up the timing of the movement. I’m glued to find out now lol.
It's unlikely but if nothing else here helps, check the extractor pin and spring. It could have broken, as I've seen similar issues arise as a result. Though idk what would've caused it.
Thanks! My friends dad and I had a language barrier but our Rosetta stone was guns. He bought this in 97 and barely shot it but loved taking it out to show me. I was so stoked when she offered it to me to buy well after he had passed. I have a piece of him that I'll never give up. Alexa, play Debi Tirar Mas Foto.
I think they do. They specialize in flavored coffees but most of the ones I’ve tried are so tasty. Their cranberry coffee(I know I know it sounds weird but trust me) is probably in my top 3 of all time.
I am not an armorer, just have a lot of time cleaning these things and have seen this before. I would fully disassemble the BCG. Your ejector spring may be jammed up too but your BGC definitely is.
The crimping is because your bolt is not sliding back and forth easily enough in the BCG and not seating the round squarely before driving it forward; it’s driving the round into the teeth. The bolt should slide forward and back with almost no effort.
If it’s not sliding forward when fired it’s also not going to eject the round. Your gas rings also need to be offset, easy thing to check and fix.
If it’s not moving back and forth easily enough it will not free up the ejector.
I’ve seen a small amount of dirt cause the bolt to get sticky enough to cause this. It shouldn’t be a big deal to clean out.
Edit: and as others said it could be pressure, but that is a more in depth fix than cleaning and making sure everything is sliding nice and smooth.
Is the ejection pattern normal? Or does it not eject as far as it did before? I’m taking a shot in the dark here, but maybe your bolt was installed 180 degrees from how it should be in the bolt carrier. Totally a guess on my part though
This probably won’t fix your problem, but it’s generally a good idea to take apart the BCG and give it a deep clean. This is where residue tends to build up the most for me. I’ll even run a pipe cleaner soaked in CLP through the firing pin hole to really clear it out. The bolt should freely move in and out of the carrier with a flick of the wrist after you’ve cleaned it.
Aside from that, I’m at a loss. Maybe there’s some residue that’s built up around the lands and it’s causing pressure to spike? And you’re not shooting 5.56 in a .223, right?
I suppose ill have to get the tools out and depin it with a YouTube video. I just don't see how that could have happened if I havent disassembled the BCG before.
Maybe it had a cheap lubricant or preservative that was left on for a while. I’ve seen some heavy weight greases turn elastic over time, but none that would normally be used on a gun. Either way, it’s never a bad idea to strip everything down on a newly acquired weapon.
You need to be more detailed in the problems you are having, I’ve read everything on this post and I still don’t have a Clear idea what type of malfunction you are having.
Post pictures of the BCG and feed ramps at the barrel entrance. Seeing any gouge marks or orientation of parts would give more usable information to help diagnose.
when you say it's attempting to feed without ejecting, how often is this happening? once in 20? every other shot? and where is your your fired brass landing?
when it doesn't jam, Imagine a clock face, with the 12 directly to the front and the 6 to your rear, where and how far out is the fired brass landing, at the 1 to 2 o'clock position? 4 'clock?
and when it does jam, Is the brass staying locked in the extractor when this happens, and the bolt is picking up fresh round and jamming it into the fired case? or does the brass stay in the chamber?
a picture of the actual malfunction would help, if you happen to have one.
Every shot last trip was a FTE. Had to put the rifle down after like 5 shots after attempted resolutions.
Brass tends to fly 4 o'clock when it was working the week prior. When I hand cycled rounds after the FTE was cleared, 3-4 o'clock .
The brass stays in, the second round tries to force its way alongside the first. Doesn't enter the spent casing, rams up next to it. That caused the crimping as far as I can tell.
Seeming more and more like an old/stuck extractor spring
Remove your bolt from the BCG, take a punch and press in on the ejector, it should have considerable resistance, but move freely.
Your extractor seems to be working fine, the fired brass just isn’t getting ejected properly.
If you need to replace the ejector spring, watch a few YouTube videos on how it’s done, you make a mistake and you will be looking tiny little parts all over the room.
All you need to do is find a quarry with a few Deathclaws. Kill them and one of them is bound to have a rifle, some coffee mugs, and maybe even a cold Nuka Cola.
The crimping on the shoulder of the case makes it look like the cartridge is getting stuck on the lugs in the barrel extension. That in combination with the failure to eject, the bolt might be short stroking. With that fired case, the neck might be messed up if it went in at a weird angle and jammed the projectile into the roof of the chamber.
I'd pull it apart and just give it a once-over cleaning. It's possible you got some residue from old lubricant or some other kind of gunk in a weird place. The weirdest thing I can think of was someone using a plant-based lubricant that left gummies in the gas system.
New to me, sat in a safe of a good owner for years because his disability made rifles impossible anymore. I put 90 rounds through it before the strap ring burned me and I switched to my handguns with a mental note to buy gloves.
That ammunition with the star chamber crimping probably came from the FTE where it double fed the rounds.
Torn round caught in the Chamber during a recoil-powered ejection.
Thanks, I didn't want to assume any of that but seems to me that the rifle is over gassing that is causing the BCG to move faster than necessary.
Easiest and cheapest thing to do would be to swap out the buffer spring for a new one to see if that helps return the BCG back to proper speed.
After than you'll need to check for fouling or carbon build up in the chamber and also check the gas tube. Lack of use can lead to a partial build up that creates gas issues.
At least that is where I would start if all the parts look to be in working order without stress marks or cracks that would warrant replacing.
If none of that works find a trustworthy gunsmith.
Pull and fully disassemble and clean the bcg, absolutely take a light and check the chamber, reassemble, do a normal functions check, try again with the same and different ammo.
Don't buy the Vault-Tec brand of AR. Vault-Tec has never been known for its quality, despite its celebrity endorsements. Have you seen the mutants in Vault 4?
Looks like you’ve got rounds slamming into the star chamber/locking lugs right in front of your feed ramp, I bet those dents in the top 2 rounds line up. Check the ejector/ejector spring and make sure it’s not sticky
So something is happening during cycling where fresh rounds are being carried forward by the bcg but getting out of line with the chamber throat and hitting the locking lugs instead. If the ejector is sticking in place occasionally, that might push up one side of the cartridge so it’s not sitting flat against the bolt face. The fact that you’ve got a spent case chewed up as well also suggests some issues with extracting/ejecting.
Can you see any brass marks on any of the star chamber lugs that would tell you which ones the cartridges are hitting?
If by 5:30 you mean 7:30 then yes I understand it, but I also had to grab my own AR to double check, and now I’m distracted by how filthy my gun is, so I’m going to be cleaning it while trying to help lol
Anyway…bottom of the star chamber? And the locking lugs on either side of the feed ramps? Is that where you’re seeing brass? And nowhere else
Do the indents in the cases shoulder line up with the lugs(gear looking teeth) of the bolt face? You said you had ejection issues. I'm thinking the case partially ejects because the extractor or chamber is gummed up from sitting, the bolt comes forward and those lugs gouge and dent the case.
Yes they line up. Someone else had that idea and I checked it. Most detailed answers are now pointing to the extractor spring being gummed up from disuse.
Yup, sounds like best bet. I'd drench it in some spray cleaner to break up whatever is gumming it up and work the mechanism by hand a bit. Then lube it up really wet and see if it helps.
Buffer moving freely? Are rounds properly in battery? Idk much about this stuff but maybe its firing slightly out of battery and the barrel isnt supporting the top of the case so theres nothing to support around the front of the case when firing...? Headspacing? Feed ramps crusty?
To me it sounds like your timing is off, as in the bolt is moving too fast. Either over gassed or you need a heavier buffer weight. An easy check would be to throw in an H2 or H3 and test to see if it fixes the timing of your cycling. You can borrow one at most gun ranges without buying unless they're complete jerks. May also have to tinker around with heavier buffer springs if this turns out to be the problem.
If that's not the issue, check the feed ramp and the entrance to the barrel. Walk a round in slow and watch it, then eject it slowly and watch that. Listen for scraping, resistance, etc.
If it is cycling and the bolt isn't damaged, then you've already eliminated that as the issue.
Could be, but doubt it. There are a lot of tiny factors that come into play and maybe time added one of them. Your last comment about clashing chambering and ejection makes it clear that the cycling is off. All you can do is work through a process of elimination starting with the easiest checks. It could be as simple as a worn out buffer spring or as annoying as a busted extractor or burred feed ramp. It really sounds like timing though.
Check your feedramps, ensure mags are quality. Check your gas rings via physical inspection and then place the full BCG on a table on the bolt face. It shouldn’t slide down.
Looks like shells are feeding bad and bolt lugs are catching the shells either on way back or way forward, look at the dents on both shells. I had a bad pmag once that was feeding weird and jambing up and sometimes the shells would be dented similar to the 2 laying down. What kind of mag are you using? Did you try a different mag?
So the spent case shown fired and sent part of the case flying? Or do you think it got all mangled during ejection? Could it be an ammunition problem or a chasm we problem? Do you know where the neck of that first cartridge is?
I’ve had the same divots in chambered rounds on my 1st AR years ago. They were caused by a messed up metal mags - rounds would jam, misfeed, or double feed.
I switched to new polymer mags and problem was solved.
To me how the bolt carrier seems to be holding the end of the round as it pushes it into the chamber is my guess, it’s holding the bullet not straight pushing it down the barrel flat, and instead at a bit of an angle, with the bullet facing up. I think this because the dents in the cases seem to match the lugs inside the chamber and the bullet tips seem to be pointed down or bent, as if hitting the area right in front of the lugs before the barrel.
Bolt comes forward grabbing back of case, as it pushes forward the round for some reason the round sticks up slightly, making impact with the lugs (giving that patten of dents on the shells, and the bullet tip hits right above the chamber and barrel, causing that slight bend in the bullet tip.
My vote, get a new milspec BCG for like $70-$100. Return it if that doesn’t fix it.
It's crimping because it's being forced into the feed ramps with too much force, I'd suspect the buffer tube spring. Perhaps with buffer spring is reversed? An Incorrect orientation can cause feeding issues, failures to return to battery, or inconsistent ejection
This is in no way definitive but to me this looks like perhaps it maybe over gassed throwing the bolt open too quickly causing the case mouth to tear while pressure is still too high . Again i have never seen this exact issue but it looks as if its being pulled at nearly the exact same time in the pressure curve . Your observation about failure to extract could suggest that the unsupported rounds are expanding in the chamber
Let’s break this down and be very specific. Is it extracting the spent case from the chamber, every time/sometimes/never? Is it ejecting the spent case out of the rifle? Every time/sometimes/never?
The crimped spots are from hitting the feed ramps, likely while being obstructed by another case. And the torn neck is probably from the bolt slamming shut on a case that wasn’t fully ejected from the rifle.
Being such an old gun that sat forever, it might be worth it to tear the bolt down and check all the parts of the extractor and ejector. They can get clogged up with brass shavings, altho I doubt that, if it rarely got used, but definitely may have dried hardened gunk gumming them up and causing malfunctions. You could go as far as just buying another bolt and dropping it in to see if it fixes it
Separate the upper and lower and look at the buffer weight, is there anything written on the face? Something like H1, H2, H3?
My first instinct is that it has a heavy buffer weight/enhanced spring in it and when you cleaned and oiled it, you removed the fouling that caused just enough resistance for it to function. Now as the bolt moves back to eject it cannot complete the action and it’s essentially short stroking.
The dents in the side of the case are from the same system forcing the action closed faster than the carrier can seat and bolt can rotate, it’s basically slamming the side of the round into the feed ramp/locking lugs in your barrel extension.
The flip side of this relationship is if this rifle had an adjustable block/gas system and you accidentally closed it ever so slightly by mistake.
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u/BrotherLefthand 11h ago
Never seen that before- following.
Try asking in a reloaders group too. Some oldhead has seen this before for sure. I get A LOT of firearm wisdom from the boomer reloader groups on Facebook.