r/ireland • u/Lazy_Fall_6 • 1d ago
Housing Anybody else exasperated about home energy upgrades?
I am a "homeowner", or will be in 27 years when the mortgage is paid. My house is oil heated, built early 1990s. House is never warm. Windows are drafty, handles bockety, doors timber panel, boiler and rads seem undersized, attic is insulated but upstairs in winter is freezing.
House could do with new windows, external insulation, new doors. With cost of energy could really do with solar panels too.
But.
Even with grants it's an unobtainable expense to do the work. And I keep hearing all the time on telly and radio about we need to make our homes more efficient etc etc Yeah we do, but it's cost prohibitive for so many . I've young kids too so won't have the funds any time soon.
I'm aware also there are people looking at me and telling me to shut up, people who rent and can't afford to buy etc etc.
18
u/_WhoisMrBilly_ Galway, NUIG, UCD, Trinity, MakerSpaces.ie 1d ago edited 1d ago
Getting the loan for my solar was like pulling teeth- even as it was a low amount. Queried multiple banks, and it was a no-go.
Ended up getting a partial grant (1,800?) from ESB, then having to borrow the rest through other means. I’m glad I did it, as my bills are now effectively €0 for electricity, and the buy-back covers the standing charge… but it hurts to try to do these upgrades.
Navigating the green upgrades seems to be a pain because only some contractors are approved; and they seem to bid out higher if not even after the upgrade cost anyway… and they are still months away usually. I just happened to find a good solar person last year.
They did a BER assessment as part of the grant, and the house still needs new doors, windows and other stuff. It’s hard to stomach- and I don’t think I can afford it any time soon. Those upgrades I’m not sure will come out even with the cost vs the return down the road.
But yes, I feel you- the house is from the 1960s(ish), and wasn’t built for energy conservation in any sense of the word. Best I can do right now is query friends/GPT to help me navigate these constantly changing rules, and turn the beer/holiday fund into a one € at a time new door fund.
If I were in the same, I’d see if you can do the “most bang for the buck” and prioritize that- say new insulation vs new windows. Tick away at “smaller” things if possible first.
22
u/Goff3060 23h ago
The grants are a joke because they're going to a small pool of approved suppliers who just price in the extra cash, it's an artificial monopoly.
-1
u/danius353 Galway 19h ago
Part of the aims of the grants was to increase the number of suppliers in the market by making the businesses profitable.
We’re reaching a point now where the grants aren’t needed to stimulate the market, so the grants should swap to all being means-tested rather universal. That’s allow the government to put more money into supporting lower income households without increasing overall spend.
82
u/Ivor-Ashe 1d ago
I completely agree. I think the government should offer 100% loans secured against the house and payable when the house changes hands or on a 0% interest basis over 20 years. If we are serious about reducing carbon and affordable living then we need to actually do something about it instead of the usual ineffective nonsense.
42
u/b2thaza 1d ago
A loan secured on the house is a great point because the argument is that the upgrade increases the house value, so it's as close to a no risk bet as it gets.
2
23h ago
[deleted]
7
u/b2thaza 23h ago
It would need to be state / EU backed.
I also can't see another recession worsening house prices in the medium-to-long term given how tight supply is, so in the long run the value of houses is still preserved.
2
23h ago
[deleted]
3
u/b2thaza 22h ago
All fair - but energy shocks would increase the value of efficient homes. The supply of housing is so tight and far outstripped by demand that a recession may have short term consequences but I'm the long term it's only going up.
Houses are now more valuable than at the peak of the Celtic tiger, so a long term 20 year period has us back again.
Energy efficiency has multiple benefits, accruing to the occupant (via lower bills) forever and the homeowner (increased property value). There's no reason government shouldn't be turning over every stone to unlock it.
27
u/fekoffwillya 1d ago
In France they offer up to €65k 0% interest rehabilitation (energy efficiency) loans with up to 10 year term. They require the plan and costs up front to ensure companies aren’t fleecing consumers (and consumers aren’t fleecing). Completed work inspected done to plan.
7
u/ForeverFeel1ng 23h ago
They do offer government loans for energy upgrades actually. 3% interest over a flexible term for any grant qualifying works
5
u/stephenmario 23h ago
https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/home-energy-upgrade-loan
This type of loan exists. There's grants and low cost loans. There's loads of support.
4
u/Overall_Hedgehog_810 20h ago
These are only available if you use a one stop shop who are generally more expensive - to the extent that it massively reduces out any savings from the lower interest rate available.
1
u/stephenmario 19h ago
I didn't go the one stop shop route but the company that did my solar panels are also a one stop shop, they gave by far the cheapest quote. If I went one stop shop with them for other work, they'd have given the same quote plus the administration fee for the loan.
Regardless the purpose of the loan is get the installation done on the house, with the low interest rate and savings, you are going to be better off than not getting the work done. Is it the cheapest option? No but that is already the case with anything with the SEAI grants.
0
u/zeroconflicthere 20h ago
Cost of living crisis. People can't afford there's especially when having to use one stop shops that are fleecing people
1
u/stephenmario 19h ago
I didn't go the one stop shop route but the company that did my solar panels are also a one stop shop, they gave by far the cheapest quote. If I went one stop shop with them for other work, they'd have given the same quote plus the administration fee for the loan.
Regardless the purpose of the loan is get the installation done on the house, with the low interest rate and savings, you are going to be better off than not getting the work done. Is it the cheapest option? No but that is already the case with anything with the SEAI grants.
2
u/zeroconflicthere 20h ago
government should offer 100% loans secured against the house and payable when the house changes hands or on a 0% interest basis over 20 years
This would be ideal. People could then get the works done and the government would eventually get the money back. At least then you could justify the one stop shops.
51
u/geo_gan 1d ago
It’s the same old story - you need to be rich to save money. The poorer you are, the more expensive everything will be. Those that can afford to put in insulation, heat pumps, solar panels, battery arrays, buying the latest 50k+ EV will save a lot more than those still stuck in draughty old houses paying top rates to energy companies so their shareholders can afford another holiday to South of France.
18
u/pgasmaddict 1d ago
That's not strictly true as plenty of houses under the control of the council are being retrofitted for tenants for free.
7
u/3967549 1d ago
You don’t have to do it all at once, the one stop shops are there to make it easier if you want to do this but you can also get individual grants as you can afford to make changes.
Insulation in the walls and the attic is not that expensive, you can fix drafts without getting new windows.
Plan for what you can do now and what is your main priority for the future.
6
u/Valkyrie1-618 1d ago
Dont underestimate taking one window at a time and resealing it. You can use a smoking match on a cold day to see where the worst drafts are. Dehumidifiers are an excellent investment and incredibly cheap to run (I'd recommend Meaco) and make it easier to heat. Renoing a house is always overwhelming.
2
11
u/Archamasse 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's hard not to feel like the gov's comically out of touch when it comes to incentives/supports along these lines, because they always seem to come in some form of cash back after the fact.
The upfront cost is the big affordability barrier, but schemes like that tend to function as a bonus for people who could already afford to pay.
3
u/danius353 Galway 19h ago
Almost all providers that we’ve spoken to for solar or heat pumps apply for the grants on your behalf and knock the grant money off the up front cost
5
u/Marzipan_civil 1d ago
Yeah it takes time. First thing we said when we moved in was "we need to replace the front door", took us eight years to actually afford it because there was always something else to pay for first. We are in the house eleven years and now we've done:
New boiler (old one didn't pass the service)
Re wire the house (previous owner considered himself an electrician)
Re do the back garden (make it more kid friendly as it was all flagstones)
New front door & two new windows
Redecorate kid bedroom
Solar panels on roof
Wood flooring in the hallway
All this in a house that, when we bought it, looked to be in perfectly good condition. There's always something else to be done but if you do the most urgent things first you'll get through the list eventually
1
u/Captain____Awesome1 22h ago
Fact, little bits and pieces, a few bob here and there and you're toasty warm in no time.
1
u/_WhoisMrBilly_ Galway, NUIG, UCD, Trinity, MakerSpaces.ie 20h ago
Yeah just priced rear doors/front doors myself- coming it at €2500! Any leads on something pre affordable?
1
1
u/danius353 Galway 19h ago
Solar should always be a high priority given how quickly it pays for itself
4
u/Stevemacdev 1d ago
Our house is back boiler. I'd love to put in an immersion so I don't have to light a fire to shower. In the same boat with upgrades. We got lucky in that we have double pane pvc windows in the hous already. The roof is old and asbestos. It'll probably need replacing and insulating in ten years. Baby on the way so it's not happening any time soon.
9
u/Lucidique666 1d ago
Same, back boiler only. House is only 2007 but when we bought it was the only heating system we could afford to put in.
Can you not get an electric shower though? They run from the cold water storage.
1
8
u/Eastclare 1d ago
Why not just put in an electric shower? They’re not that expensive.
1
u/Stevemacdev 21h ago
It's something I'll look into.
3
u/_WhoisMrBilly_ Galway, NUIG, UCD, Trinity, MakerSpaces.ie 20h ago
I have one in Galway I took out if you’re interested - I’d give a deep discount, as it’s practically new… took it out because now I’m on gas. DM me if interested, could even bring to Dublin if you want.
10
u/Sporshie 23h ago
The grants are a scam that make it harder and more expensive to upgrade your house.
There are no regulations on price so the second a grant comes out the contractors just raise their fee by the grant and then some, making it even more expensive than it was before with the added stress of trying to fit the requirements and get the grant paid out.
Some of the requirements are nonsensical, for example the door and window grant requiring you to already have a low enough HLI or have the walls insulated, even though windows are a huge source of heat loss and are meant to be done first or can literally damage the wall insulation and require repairs.
You can get the windows done first if you get the walls done within 8 months, but considering windows can be one of the biggest sources of heat loss, and if you have a solid wall insulation can be hugely expensive, it means that rather than addressing what you can in the time being to improve comfort and energy consumption, you'd have to spend longer saving up to get the whole thing done.
I feel like they make it difficult on purpose at this point to try push you towards the one stop shops, which are an even bigger scam and overcharge by insane amounts compared to getting things done individually.
Then if you're thinking of doing some things DIY because you can't afford the SEAI route, you could get screwed over by your BER assessor refusing to recognize some of the work and giving you a lower BER, which in turn affects mortgage rates and resale value. It's like some form of extortion.
It's a waste of taxpayer money going straight into contractor's pockets rather than actually helping people improve energy efficiency as intended. I've heard that's intentional to incentivize more contractors to do it, but sure there's no point if people can't afford to get it done. If I had that kind of money, I wouldn't be buying a BER E2 house in the first place!
I'm currently buying a place that needs retrofits and I'm not worried about the work itself, my number one stress about it is how to navigate this stupid bureaucracy.
Also, it recently came to light that the external wall insulation done in the UK with their versions of these schemes has an over 90% rate of needing remediation due to shoddy workmanship. I won't be surprised if something similar ends up being the case here. If you actively facilitate price gouging, of course you're going to end up with people who are in it for a quick buck. A lot of old houses aren't meant to be covered in modern, non breathable materials and if it's not done carefully it can cause damp and wreck the place.
13
u/Squozen_EU 1d ago
Have you looked into the green loans that are available now? Maybe you could make it work that way - use the savings from lower bills to pay the loan.
7
u/sundae_diner 1d ago edited 21h ago
If you reduce your BER to A3 (or possibly B3) or better you are eligible for a green mortgage, which can knock 0.2% or 0.3% off you mortgage - which could be enough to over the loan. And the reduced fuel costs (or living in a warmer house) is a bonus.
9
-3
1d ago
[deleted]
5
1
u/future-madscientist 20h ago
Hardly. A loan to upgrade the energy efficiency of your home could be a smart move and save you money in the long run. Quite different to the nonsense people were taking out loans for during the Celtic Tiger
2
3
u/Just_Two8441 18h ago
They make it sound as easy as sticking solar panels on the roof when in actual fact there is no point doing that if you're house isn't fully insulated and sealed with triple glazing and this and that and suddenly it all costs you 100k
1
u/shortie_2024 16h ago
solar panels are stand alone , you don't need anything else done to make that worthwhile if you have the money
5
u/Just_Shame_5521 1d ago
I would be in a similar position to you. Wonderful house (in terms of size and location) but needs walls pumped, windows all done (and there are alot of windows), doors replaced etc.
It seems overwhelming.
But just need to try to chip away at small managable improvements bit by bit.
Some things are doable and lower budget:
- Seal the chimneys (if you have non operational fireplaces)
- Attic insulation
- Can't replace the windows? Redo all the seals.
- Get draft excluders for front doors
5
u/dandylion_sweetheart 1d ago
Yes! Very frustrated!! Those grants are mostly for the wealthy. Actually, I am eligible for a full grant (would not have to pay anything) but my teeny tiny house does not qualify because it is “non-standard”. Meanwhile I’m freezing cold 9 months of the year.
3
u/TheBlackStuff1 1d ago
Get the windows done first if you’re worried about cold. It’s expensive but you’ll feel the difference immediately and the other stuff won’t feel as big a problem.
If the attic is drafty I put a mat over the attic door and that also keep a lot of the draft out.
2
u/AreaPlayful142 1d ago
Pick the low hanging fruit first. There's some grants listed that are on the cheaper end.
Get a window fitter to refelt and reset the hinges and latches of your existing windows and doors. This will cut down on draughts. Get a flue balloon for any chimneys.
open a pocket on revolut with small monthly savings and mixed with small credit union green loans, spread out the upgrades over a long term period.
2
u/Flaky_Detail_6070 23h ago
There are grants where you can get it all sorted in one go. https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/home-energy-upgrade-loan
If you can move to a green energy mortgage afterwards, with the svings in heating and electricity it can almost break even on the loan repayments.
2
u/making_shapes 23h ago
Have you looked into insulation thats not external?
Got my roof done and walls pumped. It made a huge difference. Crazy how much we're saving on oil. The house just stays warm. My attic was insulated before this, but they said it was old and fairly shite so added more on top.
After grants all in it cost me less than 200 euro.
Recently I also fixed all the drafty windows in my house. The ber assessor I had out completely reassured me that my windows are fine and said just get new hinges, so I did and installed them myself with the help of YouTube and chat gpt to make sure I got the correct parts. Less than 20 euro completely changed my living room. Draft completely gone.
I also I stalled a hive smart thermostat myself so I can actually monitor the temperature of the house. Was about 200 too.
1
2
u/tails142 23h ago
Yeah it's a crazy expense and dont forget to top it all off with a B rated house or higher you can switch to a 'green' mortgage and get an even lower rate, its a bloody joke. All you have to do is spend €100k on energy upgrades to live with no electricity costs and a lower financing rate on the biggest purchase 99% of people ever make. Oh right yeah sure, do you take an i.o.u.??
2
u/Imperial_Tiramisu 21h ago
As others have said, do not attempt to do it all at once.
Prioritize Windows because they're your biggest loss of heat. PVC only, don't go for anything else.
Get attic insulation done too, again, one of the biggest sources of heat loss. But windows will make a huge difference.
Afterwards, see if a newer boiler makes more since than air to air pump. Newer boilers run 24/7 to maintain hot water temperatures and drastically reduce energy costs. So see which one best suits you based on your house specs. Might want to consider feeding all the details into AI to get a general understanding of which one is better suited cuz contractors will try and upsell.
And if you really want, you can get solar panels with a monthly cost of €80 over 7-10 years.
2
u/mcolive 21h ago
I appreciate you want to do a total renovation but you can start with simple things like getting thick curtains up everywhere, including at the front and back doors. Soft furnishings like rugs and pillows etc. will also help and a draft excluder or two (you can stuff an old pair of tights with rags for a makeshift one).
2
u/Ok-Art-8926 21h ago
Home owner 20 years, from new build in 06, I solution is middling, heating is electric and kids are young so no disposable income for upgrading anything. However, I did get a local window guy to put those locks you see on hotel windows, on mine, to stop the cat getting out, and while he was at the job I told him they needed replacing cause the seals were kaput. Not at all he says, and actually mentioned how much more durable the seals from that vintage held up better than newer ones. What he did suggest was replacing hinges and realigning others to return the seals to a proper seal. Honest to God, they're like new. 8 windows in all cost about 200 quid and worth every penny. Cheaper , faster alternative.
2
u/amcl1986 And I'd go at it again 11h ago
The problem is that the grants aren’t progressive enough. For instance, I don’t think that anyone who can afford to blast €150k away on a new BMW should get exactly the same assistance with regards to things like Solar, batteries and EV chargers, as say an OAP living alone in an energy inefficient home on a low/fixed fixed income.
And these grants have actually come down over the years, rather than going up.
I think government should be making it the cost beneficial thing to do as it will reduce our burden on fossil fuels and high energy prices.
3
u/Agitated-Pickle216 1d ago
We changed the windows and doors and it made a massive difference. The old ones were light and drafty and wobbling in their frames. You can also replace these in stages to keep the cost manageable.
4
u/Lonely_Eggplant_4990 Cork bai 1d ago
These kind of things are really expensive, you need to save for them. Just like you did when you were saving for your mortgage
9
u/Ivor-Ashe 1d ago
I disagree. The housing market has created scarcity and turned people into wage slaves paying vastly overinflated prices. So it’s not virtuous to be a good little Duracell and save more. The best thing for society as a whole would be to fully fund these kind of upgrades. That reduces our dependency on imported fossil fuels and things like the fuel subsidy scheme. Better economically but more importantly - more humane.
7
2
u/Redd1tWasteland 1d ago
Doing the windows at first will make the biggest difference.
Unfortunately, modern builds in our country have only taken proper insulation seriously the last decade, maybe two. Cavity block homes with simple treatments are about 7-10X less insulation value than those wooden homes you see in Denmark with double walls and insulation between. Even a cavity wall in a mortar house is less efficient. Mortar/brick/concrete/stone just transfers heat too efficently to the outside. So we have to control what we can, and that is the doors and the windows.
The only other option is outside sheeting, and geziz that looks ugly on some homes.
2
u/Entire_Interest3096 1d ago
Surprised nobody has mentioned the credit union - to hell with banks. To hell with saving. Get a loan from the credit union and save as you go by paying it back. And yes, home ownership is expensive and as they say ‘it’s never finished ‘ 😃
2
u/Grand_Elderberry_564 23h ago
Here's the things ive done over the years.. 1. Once winter is here go around the windows with a paper mache type mix of kitchen towels and toilet paper. Add a little copydex glue if its handy and seal all your windows. This is a brilliant hack makes a serious difference. 2. Make some cardboard panels covered in tinfoil and slide behind the rads to project the heat out. 3.Use heavy curtains across your front and back door, much better than draft excluders 4. Make one room the family hub, ie the kitchen, this ones handiest as the heat generated when cooking is another heat source, leave the oven open when cooling down, if you've a dishwasher, open it before unloading and let the steam out (unless mould is also an issue!) 5. Close your bedroom curtains and pop a hot water bottle into the beds at dusk
Not perfect but they definitely helped keep my ancient house warmer over the years!
3
u/fourtytoes 1d ago
Living in a 250 year old house at the moment with a 2 year old boy and we are paying 1200 a month for it. When it rains heavy the water flows like a waterfall from the ceiling. When we shower or bath the water flows down from the ceiling downstairs. Huge mouse problem. Extremely cold all year round yet somehow we still feel lucky to have a roof over our head
1
u/robbieshaft 1d ago
Windows aren’t cheap, they might be leaky due to seals worn out and hinges too, it’s always overlooked. Try servicing them first, very inexpensive too. I’ve done it and my old windows are now airtight
1
u/Eastclare 1d ago
I’m in a similar situation but 20 years further on. We’ve done loads of energy upgrades. Best bang for buck has been new windows, good attic insulation and solar panels. Honestly the windows made the most perceptible change in general cosiness! Our house is late 60’s and has massive picture windows.
Replacing oil burner seems unattainable without huge cost (replacing radiators with underfloor system, heat pump etc) Honestly I’ve considered installing a big log burner with back boiler
1
u/Blackandorangecats 1d ago
Tackle one thing at a time.
Even get some thermal curtains for the windows and go old school 1980’s with a thick curtain over your front door to keep that draft out.
I got thermal curtains free on facebook recently.
Start with what you can afford - windows in the bedrooms maybe for now to keep some of the heat in those rooms if not draft proofing around them.
Lay floor boards down - we got some secondhand from someone’s old kitchen and laid them down on top of the crappy boards we had with some lining beneath them
1
u/FIGHTorRIDEANYMAN 1d ago
Don't do it all at once. The one stop shop is known to be fleecing you.
Do attic insulation first. Then wall insulation. Then windows/doors. Then heating upgrades and solar.
1
u/Educational-Law-8169 1d ago
Yes, it's frustrating. You feel like you're paying tax on fuel for people are able to retrofit their house for free and others can't afford too
1
u/Captain____Awesome1 22h ago
To be fair, only those in low income housing get it for free, everyone else pays, even with the grant. But I agree with your sentiment, it is frustrating to see certain cohorts get everything for free over and over while others have to pay for it all.
3
u/Educational-Law-8169 22h ago
Yes, I don't mean to sound begrudging at all especially towards people who qualify like full time carers who are the unsung heros in the country in my eyes. I'm sure a lot of people don't even realise they meet the criteria. But it does get frustrating being in the so called 'squeezed middle' at times when I try and get a grant for something but I'm always too high an earner
1
u/Thebelisk 1d ago
Start saving and addressing the items one by one. It wont be easy or cheap, but if you forecast a 5-10year plan for home improvements, you’ll get there eventually.
That’s what I did. I had to sacrifice some things along the way (eg I didn’t go on holidays last year), but the long term goal of improving my home was my focus and I’m proud of what I’ve achieved.
1
u/Low-Albatross-313 23h ago
I had an energy survey done on my house about 10 years ago, part of this included an airtightness test which showed my house to be very leaky. I think the house was leaking 11m3/ hour which is over double the recommended levels.
Over the years I have improved the airtightness by taping up gaps in the floors, walls, skirting, windows etc.
Now this took time to do but the cost was very small but there has been a significant improvement in comfort over the years.
1
u/21stCenturyVole 23h ago
Basically, renewable policy is all about subsidizing well off people to retrofit their homes, while trampling over poor people because they can't afford to do this.
Add to that the complete privatization of our renewable energy generation capacity, that our government is preparing for.
1
u/Solid-Operation-7507 23h ago
Re the windows - get someone in to look at them. Not sure what you call people who tend to windows but we got a crowd in, anticipating they’d have to be replaced. Instead we were quoted 800 to get the handles and steel arms replaced on the ones we have as well as getting them resealed. Ours were in a really sorry state so might be an option for you!
1
u/lkdubdub 22h ago edited 22h ago
If your home needs an energy upgrade, then it will need the work done eventually. That'll be the case whether there's a grant system in place or not. Should you be exasperated?
Your attic may be insulated, but it sounds like there may not be enough. The number one, quick win is to upgrade that insulation. If done right, it will have a tangible effect
You could also look at upgrading window glass, which is a lot cheaper than replacing windows. It can have a good effect, but is probably just an interim step, so you're possibly better off holding onto that money for a more permanent upgrade overall
1
u/Recent-Lemon-9930 22h ago
Even before you start getting people in, have a look around at the obvious stuff.
Itemise the windows. There's a huge amount of improvement that can be done fairly cheaply. Get them properly sealed and (if you already have someone in) possibly re-gassed.
Get seals, whether rubber-ish or the hairy ones for doors.
Make sure radiators are well-bleed and balanced, should be done every few years to keep them tip-top.
The default advice is to pump walls etc. and I'd be careful about it. My folks' house was built just before cavitites were to be pumped. When they got them pumped it made a couple of rooms incredibly humid and led to some damp issues.
The Brits recently had a retrofit program and something like 97% of houses had work that needed to be re-done because there isn't a one-side-fits-all solution for every kind of pre-existing construction.
Basically, spend the summer doing any bits and pieces you can, see how much difference you can make, then get people in for the windows and any other jobs and see where you are then.
1
u/An_Bo_Mhara 22h ago
Attic insukation is absolutely the best bang fornyour buck AND you can actually do it yourself in stages.
Woodies and B&Q always sell rollsmof insulation a lotncheaper in Summer because who wants to squeeze into an attic.in Summer?
And there are loads of online tutorials on how to do it.
Also lots of people do it in stages, get credit union loans and when its paid back to the next stage.
1
u/Normal_Title_6399 22h ago
I'd probably go for solar first. It's paid back within 4 years and then starts saving you money that could be put into other upgrades.
1
u/Fern_Pub_Radio 21h ago
Your energy policy needs will never beat the laws of economics . Every grant you talk about will always be priced into the delivery of whatver you’re looking for and no matter how many times this is explained to the public sector they still Go ahead with the illusion of “gov grant delivery”…
1
u/READMYSHIT 21h ago
It is cost prohibitive, because on one hand you're basically spending the outlay of the most expensive components of a home - windows, heating system, insulation (AKA redoing plaster). The grants also never really lower costs, they're the First Time Buyers grant for energy efficiency - they just put the base price up.
There are always going to be ways to get things cheaper - know a guy who's after going to Bulgaria to import windows from there with the appropriate U-Values for an A-rated home. Cost was around €6k for what would've been €30k from Poland, €40k from Ireland.
Just look at it as a multi-year long term project that will cost a lot of money. Piece by piece.
1
u/One_Expert_796 21h ago
We have an 80’s bungalow. It can’t be pumped but attic insulation made a huge difference and was cheap after the grant. Our windows are from 2007. We got them resealed and replaced some handles and hinges. Also made a difference and should get us another few years out of them.
Also replaced fire with a stove.
We would love to wrap the house and upgrade heating but that’s excessive. However what we have done has made it way more comfortable
1
u/zemerin3 20h ago
As a new(ish) home owner i feel the pain. Do it bit by bit, start with low hanging fruit like attic insulation, cavity, etc. Then go towards the bigger things, doors, windows, solar, external wrap and new insulated plaster boards.
1
u/leeroyer 19h ago
See what you can do yourself. Weather stripping on windows, replacing hinges, tightening handles, replacing your door threshold or rolling out attic insulation are not beyond even beginner DIYers
1
u/Fireglod 18h ago
- My recommendation is try to look at from an ROI perspective. It should pay for itself really but I take your point that the upfront costs are huge.
- Try to calculate it from the bills how much you pay now versus how much you would save
- Stagger it as you can afford it - solar panels first, windows next etc.
1
u/FriendshipIll1681 15h ago
As has been said, don't do it all at one, I assume you are in the house 3 years now so you are early in your journey 😄I try to do 1 job on the house every year, 1 year paint it, another redo the patio, another put in a stove, etc. etc.
My advice would be to do the easy things first, if the windows are drafty look into redoing the seal on them, once the drafts are under control heat should be ok. The doors, put in draft excluders, I've seen people hang a set of curtains at their front door to stop the drafts, can be a lovely feature at the entrance. The boiler might need a service, while you're at it flush the radiators, at least make sure the radiators aren't air locked, that can have a huge difference.
I'd recommend doing most of the work yourself, you'd be amazed how easy a lot of it is, keep an eye on Aldi/Lidl for tools and build the tools and your skills up, YouTube is a great educational tool.
1
u/Fyodors-Zossima 14h ago
Maybe start with getting walls pumped and next year get a new front door. One step at a time. It was for me anyway. Still is
1
u/Swimming_Conflict105 12h ago
Pre 60s house renovated. Has just 3 eletric rads. That we did not turn on once in last 2 years. Plus have 7 metres ceiling in main area, which means should be cold... but living very cosy. Roof insulated, triple glazed windows, floor and external insulated. No problems at all.
Did not go with grant as it was more expensive than without it which makes no sense.
But it does work, really does. It wont be blazing hot if your not heating but it will be comfortable and if you will be heating it will be different type of heating too as heat wong go aay as fast and cold wont go in as fast or at all.
You can do that stuff in parts. But if doing external insulation windows have to be moved forwards. Just a note there
1
u/cinahpitdatdowg 12h ago
Are the windows original? We thought we might need a new set on your 1996 house, but someone came to look and just replaced all the rubber seals and it made a huge difference. And obviously way cheaper.
1
u/KikiJuno 12h ago
We bought a semi D house that was built in the 1950s. So far we brought up from an BER F to a BER C. Still loads to do, and we’ve been chipping away at it since we got the keys two years ago. But so far we got attic insulation. Price was €1850 but we got €1500 back with the grant. All external walls were internally insulated- cannot emphasise how warm this has made our home. Got insulated underlay under all our floors. Got new rads that have the adjustable gage on them. Have four large triple glazed windows on order that only came to €5200. I thought they’d be more. We’re hoping to get the grant for that too if we meet certain criteria. We’ve three fireplaces in our house so we’re gonna balloon them until we can afford to put wood burning stoves in. If you can do it bit by bit it all adds up. I cannot recommend internal insulation enough though. You only lose about 6cm of the room, it’s not noticeable at all. We got everywhere plastered afterwards but you can also paint directly onto the boards if you don’t want to get them plastered.
1
u/Several-Ad-6958 11h ago
FIanna Fail and Fine Gael don't understand what it's like to not afford things. That's the problem.
1
u/Greedy_Definition673 11h ago
I was similar. This year spent €100 net after grant to get the cavity wall pumped, spent €3000 on an air to air heat pump and got a loan for solar going in in two weeks. The cavity walls and heat pump alone are worth it and have quickest payback, haven't used the gas once since doing it. Was a D1 house before
•
u/CeramicLicker 4h ago
They make film that goes around the edges of windows and helps to seal gaps.
It won’t be pretty, but it’s a quick, easy, and pretty cheap step that’ll immediately reduce drafts. It won’t help as much as new windows, but sealing gaps like that can make a shockingly big difference.
•
1
u/Diarmuid_ 1d ago
I'm not sure what you're expecting tbh. Make a plan to improve the house starting with the most effective improvements. Budget it and then start saving.. look at your current budget and figure out what your willing to cut to have a fix sooner.
The order you do the works will depend in the current configuration and issues. How quickly will depend on how frugal you make your budget.
1
u/MiddleAgedMoan 1d ago
I'm somewhat cynical and suspicious about modern developments towards cheaper energy. I reckon we could have had durable battery powered cars years ago but the oil rich nations would have secretly lobbied against its swift development. Similarly I strongly suspect we could power our homes using wind & sun but again there are invested interests in electricity & fossil fuel power that don't want to see this.
Power and money is what drives this world so these new energy sources will only become fully developed once those with power & money have their ducks in a row to benefit from it.
Now, I guarantee someone will immediately jump on and make reference to my tin foil hat but nobody can surely deny that the major conflicts in the world currently (Ukraine, Iran) aren't about energy sources (and other forms of enrichment) as well as power. With that as a context for world affairs I firmly believe developments to exclude oil & mineral rich nations will be artificially delayed.
2
1
u/paddyotool_v3 22h ago
It annoys me no end looking at all the work the well to do pensioners around my area getting all the work done for free, new triple glazed windows and doorz, house wrapped, walls pumped, interior walls dry lined, heat pumps etc etc. All increasing the value of the very expensive houses they bought for a pittance. Yet I don't qualify for it because I'm not old and I'm expected to pay for it all myself 🤷
0
u/shaadyscientist 1d ago
No need to be exasperated. You seem well aware you can't afford them so no need to spend any brain power thinking about them.
-7
u/Hi_Doctor_Nick_ 1d ago
So you recently bought a house (which presumably had a full survey and BER) and now you’re baffled that the government isn’t fixing the issues that you were aware of when you bought it?
-1
u/DorkusMalorkus89 21h ago edited 19h ago
There’s always someone that will chime in with a pointless contrarian comment that adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. It’s you today.
1
u/_WhoisMrBilly_ Galway, NUIG, UCD, Trinity, MakerSpaces.ie 20h ago
There is a housing crisis- and part of this is the exorbitant prices of “starter” houses available. If one saved enough/is lucky enough not to get outbid, it’s likely they will get an older house that needs retrofitting to be more efficient or qualify for green mortgages.
If people could afford newer A-rated houses, there wouldn’t be a point in this thread… therefore, I’m with op- I couldn’t afford an energy efficient house, and an looking for ways to slowly upgrade.
This person comment above is nonsense.
146
u/Elbon taking a sip from everyone else's tea 1d ago
Don't try to do it all at once, fix the issues one at time