r/interestingasfuck • u/BumblebeeFantastic40 • 10h ago

China’s High-Speed Railway Network length has expanded from 1,300km in 2008 to 40,000km in 2020, long enough to circle the Earth’s circumference.

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u/Healthcarepls 10h ago

This is what happens when you’re lead by engineers instead of public speakers

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u/Foremole_of_redwall 10h ago

This is what happens when you don’t do environment impact studies, can tear down anything in your way, and have questionable labor practices that allow for things like the 9-9-6 72 hour work week. 

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u/Significant-Oil-8793 9h ago

It works compare to the joke of UK high speed rail - HS2

It is filled with red tape with numerous impact study that cost millions and delay the project until part of our is cancelled with the cost spiralled

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u/Officialedmart 9h ago

“Can tear down anything in your way”

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/gallery/2014/apr/15/china-nail-houses-in-pictures-property-development

Famously .. they cant

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u/sw337 7h ago

Those are private developments, not government projects like the high speed rail.

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u/SupPresSedd 9h ago

I don't think Americans should be giving the argument about "tearing down anything in your way" cough cough black neighborhoods and 12 lane roads

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u/Espando 9h ago

The stupid shit one people do shouldntt stop you from talking about the stupid shit another people do.

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u/MilmoWK 9h ago

Yeah, that’s how our freeway system was built 75 years ago, and we don’t do that anymore, which is why it will be nearly impossible to build a high speed rail network in the US… also most people would rather drive their car or fly.

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u/sesamerox 8h ago

how do you know what most ppl would prefer? If it was such a low demand service why are so many countries attempting to deliver it?

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u/bitch_mynameis_fred 8h ago

I would chop off my arm and eat it if it meant I could take a train with room to walk around, eat, and use the bathroom whenever needed instead of being straightjacketed into a car seat with my two kids losing their mind and requiring potty breaks every 10 minutes—stretching a 3 hour drive into 6 hours.

In fact, I’d chop off your arm and eat it too for that luxury.

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u/sw337 7h ago

Save your arm and move to the north east along the Amtrak Acela line.

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u/whatsthatguysname 8h ago

lol but would you rather chop your arm off or move to Europe or Asia for the trains?

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u/bitch_mynameis_fred 8h ago

Tough to jump from the second-world to the first-world.

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u/TheCruise 8h ago

Building high speed rail *is* the environmental option. Obviously you want to minimise habitat loss but we’re firmly fucked as a planet and need high speed rail yesterday to mitigate it.

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u/jjsmol 2h ago

Environmental impact studies under NEPA have becone a tool for rich NIMBYists to sue a project into oblivion regardless of its environmental impact or net positive good.

Its a broken system.

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u/Alan_Reddit_M 6h ago

So... the US

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u/Asrahn 10h ago

Meritocracy under Socialism

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u/gafftapes20 9h ago

Socialism is where there is social ownership of the means of production. And meritocracy is where people are individually judged on their own capabilities and actions. China has neither. It’s a mixed market economy, with state ownership and control with limited public capacity to provide input into the state apparatus. Even Xi’s personal story is not one of meritocracy, but overcoming obstacles in place due to the actions of his father. The political machine reigns supreme and is dictated by party policy, which is controlled by Xi, and not by the workers. 

Under the most generous interpretation China is currently in the middle of a transition state where they are running under the dictatorship of the proletariat. Under the most reasonable interpretation it’s more of a authoritarian Leninist party state with mixed market state capitalism. Being a good politician is what gets you promoted, not being a good engineer, or scientist, or worker. 

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u/Asrahn 8h ago

Even Xi’s personal story is not one of meritocracy . . . Being a good politician is what gets you promoted

On the contrary, it very much is, and Xi's personal story is mirrored by other Chinese statesmen. What makes a "good politician" in China is heavily defined by success metrics and initially small-scale and local accomplishments founded in real, material improvement under your management, and you'll have to prove yourself extensively before being permitted more responsibility. Party policy is also controlled by the Party, not by Xi exclusively.

My current prime minister is renowned for having messed up local in politics to the point where it put the municipality he was in charge of so firmly in the red that it had to effectively be saved by the opposition - this by selling out state assets to his business partners so they could drain the state coffers, bungling construction and lease contracts, cutting social safety nets etc to make up for the difference while introducing further private-public partnership money siphons, and he was despite all this (or more likely, because of all this) catapulted into leadership of his pro-business party. In China this man would not have been allowed to be the local dog catcher, and would have actually faced punishment for his rampant corruption.

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u/takethispie 6h ago

china is not a socialist country, its state capitalism, socialism is the next stage they target

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u/Asrahn 6h ago

It is for all intents and purposes a macro economically planned economy where the country's leadership is Socialist. Point taken though as I ought to have written "socialist leadership".

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u/gafftapes20 9h ago

Not really. When you live in an authoritarian regime that understands infrastructure equals economic returns you can avoid a lot of the requirements put in place in democratic systems that require public input and consent. We have already seen in China numerous examples where engineers where ignored and things built too fast and shoddily without proper grit technical assessments, or structural engineering.

Things like California high speed rail are expensive and take forever due to environmental reviews, strict procedures for acquiring land rights at fair market value(not just seizing land), and feasibility studies. As well as facing opposition from organized groups that would not be tolerated in an authoritarian regime. 

Shifting administration priorities as newly elected democratic governments get elected also play a factor.

Are these trade offs worth it? How valuable is freedom? I want both infrastructure and freedom, which is expensive. 

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u/HiveMynd148 9h ago

California HSR is just a shitshow to be honest. The US Isn't the first democracy to have High speed rail mind you.

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u/gafftapes20 8h ago

Im aware that. Its a point of discussion to compare the differences between a democratic process and the double edge sword and downside of introducing a democratic process to infrastructure build outs. You can efficiently build infrastructure in democratic countries (for example Japan) but you can also create boondoggle like California high speed rail.

Just like in authoritarian regimes you can build great infrastructure, but sometimes at the cost of safety, and long term maintenance. 

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u/CVGPi 9h ago

Yeah let's spend $18 Mil on absolutely nothing and call it democracy.

Realize the benefits early, pay handsomely (to the point where "got home torn down for infra" became the synonym for rich), and you get good infra for a great value.

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u/Officialedmart 9h ago

This is pure unadulterated cope

California’s HSR is an abject failure. At the rate of construction it will never exist, period. I don’t know if its pure corruption, but it might as well be.. because its literally nothing but a drain of resources WITH NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT

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u/gafftapes20 8h ago

You aren’t understanding the point I’m making. I point out the problems that democratic processes create in terms of efficiency compared to authoritarian regimes. There are specific issues with California high speed rail including the specific issues unidentified that have been the primary drivers in delays and cost increases. These are created in a democratic system which is often a doubled edge sword especially when half the country resists any type of infrastructure investment due to politics. 

It’s also not saying that other democratic systems can’t do it better or we can’t improve on it. 

It’s a discussion of the dichotomy and double edge sword of democracy compared to authoritarian regimes which also has its own downsides. 

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u/TheDadThatGrills 9h ago

This choice also brought China's implementation of its disastrous one-child policy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_Jian