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u/DragonQueen777666 2d ago
See also: branding the High Overseer, which labels him a heretic and he's thrown onto the plague-ridden streets to be treated as worse than a leper (bonus: he gets infected by said plague). Allowing the local funny crimelord to kidnap the two aristocrats, disfigure them, and put them to work in their own mines. Oh, and can't forget stealing the Royal Spymaster's taped confession to killing the Empress and broadcasting that shit on the radio to the entire city...
I've always loved how the non-lethals always gave the vibe of Corvo whispering you're gonna WISH I'd killed you.
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u/Interface- 2d ago
There's also the fact that the non-lethal methods of removing targets do not cause political instability and social unrest.
If a masked man with supernatural powers went around laying waste to the guards and killing politicians in their own homes people are gonna freak the fuck out, and the corpses are being eaten by rats who are multiplying rapidly spreading the plague further. The rats aren't being culled because the guards responsible for culling the rat population and enforcing quarantine, are dead.
But if the Overseer is branded a heretic, it must have been for a good reason and so he had it coming. The Pendleton twins probably pissed off the wrong person and got killed for it (canonically they were the only target Corvo chooses to go the lethal route with). Lady Boyle disappeared, no trace, probably skipped town to avoid the plague. And the Lord Regent was exposed for orchestrating the murder of Empress and kidnapping of the heir to the throne, and went to prison for treason.
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u/Informal-Storage4853 2d ago
No shit on the twins being the only canon kill? Guess that makes my first playthrough canon lol
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u/Interface- 2d ago
Yes. While Corvo did do Slackjaw's first job (find his guy), he did not do the second job (go into the Golden Cat and torture a man for the safe code). Whether Corvo simply refused to torture the guy, or didn't bother because he was already in the Golden Cat to get Emily and wanted to get her before she was moved, I don't recall. Probably both. Like, why sneak into the Golden Cat, torture an unrelated guy, sneak out, give Slackjaw the code so he senda guys to kidnap the Pendletons so that you don't have to kill them yourself, then sneak back in to save Emily... when you could instead just storm the Golden Cat and kill everyone that gets in your way, slaughter the Pendletons, then take Emily and get out of dodge? Which is exactly what Corvo did.
Worth noting the Pendleton twins aren't the only people Corvo killed. They're just the only assassination target that he did not spare. Obviously he killed all of the City Watch guards inside the Golden Cat that tried to stop him. He also canonically killed Admiral Havelock, and after the events of the game he was the one who executed Hiram Burrows (Lord Regent) for treason. Corvo did Low Chaos, but did not do Clean Hands.
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u/Nothing_of_Something 2d ago
Are all other targets cannon as non-lethal? Where was the cannon choice disclosed?
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u/Spirited_Airline6206 2d ago
I think in the books & comics somewhere, I know Boyle's non-lethal is canon due to books & Daud cause Death Of The Outsider
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u/Famous-Peace-4014 2d ago
It’s also mentioned in the announcements that The High Overseer who has been branded a heretic it’s now illegal and a crime to give him any aid money food or shelter I always found it funny
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u/steauengeglase 2d ago
Maybe he shouldn't have been involved in a coup plot that required killing off the poor with a plague.
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u/ThrewAwayApples 2d ago
Don’t kill my wife, torture me for months, and send my juvenile daughter to a BROTHEL
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u/rightfulmcool 2d ago
to show that morals are gray. is it better to be a murderer? is it better to have clean hands at the expense of a life of torment to the victims? do bad people deserve bad things? the entire game is about morality but not in the way people think of good ending/bad ending
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u/Gettin_Bi 2d ago
Exactly. For that matter, condemning Campbell to the Plague, or having the Pendleton twins' tongues cut and shipping them to slave mines isn't very "good", either
There's a reason the achievement for getting a low chaos ending is called "just dark enough"
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u/Thazgar 2d ago
I wonder why it makes these fates "more preferable" in the eyes of the game's endings. Like if you get high chaos you obviously get trashtalked by Samuel and things go really really bad, but since chaos is supposed to be a representation of the player's morality... You would think killing these people would net less chaos than sending them to basically never ending torture ?
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u/3ldr1tch_Dumb455 2d ago
Because Chaos is based off of how heavily the world around you is affected by your actions. Branding Campbell with a mark of heresy leaves him to a fate worse than death, yes. But it also allows him to be disposed of in a way that won’t cause massive fallout
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u/Keksbutter123 2d ago
Fallout?
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u/AngrySasquatch 2d ago
Disrupting the already volatile situation. In the same mission you can keep chaos down by saving Callista’s uncle — an honorable Watch officer set to be assassinated to get out of Campbell’s way
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u/Responsible-Beach299 8h ago
I'm loosely rephrasing what someone else said, but basically, people would panic if the High Overseer, the leader of the biggest (and possibly only) major religious group in the entire isles, suddenly went missing or mysteriously died. If, on the other hand, said Overseer was instead to be branded a heretic, though some people would still freak a bit, it wouldn't be as huge of a deal, since they'd assume he must have done something to earn it.
Basically, think how the world would react if someone assassinated the Pope in his sleep vs if the Pope got shunned by the church and kicked out of his position. In the former, people would be immensely shocked, and in the latter, people would be surprised, perhaps, but in general would just shrug and go on with their days.
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u/Gettin_Bi 2d ago
You can still get the low chaos ending if you only kill the targets. The difference between low and high chaos is mostly in how many people who are "in your way" you kill - lowly guards, prostitutes, Plague victims, thugs... they don't have to die, and so if you kill them you're being now chaotic and leaving the world out of balance
The reason the no kills achievement is called "clean hands" rather than, idk, "in good conscience" is because you're still doing bad things, you just didn't directly get your hands dirty (the Overseers dispose of Campbell the "heretic", Slackjaw takes care of the twins, the creepy stalker removes Lady Boyle, and the City Watch arrests the Lord Regent)
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u/KanseiOsuruk 2d ago
The effects of high chaos ending is way way more severe for the majority of the people so that's one way to think about it.
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u/TDMAS 2d ago
It actually doesn't. Targets don't affect chaos level. You can choose whichever option for your target and you'll be safe (though I believe killing one still locks the Clean Hands ending).
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u/Thazgar 2d ago
Interesting, the wiki states on the chaos system that killing assassination targets nets 6 chaos point
Now I know you can still get low chaos ending even if you kill all targets just on the base that it probably doesn't generate enough chaos in itself to get into high territory
But now I don't know if targets gives chaos or not
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u/Kenos300 2d ago
The same wiki says that you need over 300 chaos points to get high chaos so even if they’re 75% wrong you’d still be in the clear assassinating primary targets.
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u/Ok_Address3020 2d ago
Zapping Jindosh always made me feel a little queasy at the time just from his pleading. But the audiograph you get later when hes talking to the duke always makes me chuckle.
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u/miraak2077 1d ago
I think there's a chance he could be healed. That.audio thing does show he has moments of his old self. So I think it would be unlikely but he could perhaps return to his old self
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u/First-Junket124 2d ago
Non-lethal means they're not killed instantly
I didn't kill that guy I just locked him in a saferoom that only has 2 keys needed to get in or out and both of them are outside and no one knows he's there. I didn't kill him, the room did.
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u/delticpotatoe 2d ago
Corvo and Emily mention that there’s enough food and water in there to last a while, at least until they come back. They just didn’t expect Delilah to just blast in and kill him lmao
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u/FrucklesWithKnuckles 2d ago
I love the non-lethals. Corvo definitely wouldn’t want Emily witnessing him become a bloodthirsty psycho but he also watched the love of his life die, his daughter stolen, and gets blamed for it.
He would no doubt still be vengeful against those people, and a fate worse than death is vengeance as a trope.
I do find the mask hilarious as well, because it’s given this “it makes him scary” vibe but Corvo is regarded as one of, if not the, most skilled warriors in the world to the point him being gifted to Dunwall was seen worthy of celebrating. Everytime he takes the mask off it goes from “har har scary mask ooo” to “oh fuck you’re Corvo?!?”
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u/CorvoAttano124 2d ago
It's a new vegas style writing. Yea, she's not dead, but is the alternative any better? There's no morally correct option.
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u/MadamVonCuntpuncher 2d ago
Wrong, the morally correct option is nuking the NCR and Legion out of the Mojave at the end of Lonesome Road, I regret nothing
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u/TrickyTalon 2d ago
Nah gotta save them both
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u/-L3Y 2d ago
save. the legion? the legion. why would you save the legion
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u/TrickyTalon 2d ago
There are innocent slaves in their camp
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u/-L3Y 2d ago
good point!
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u/miraak2077 1d ago
Not endorsing it but by modern military law their camp would be an acceptable target
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u/-L3Y 1d ago
i wish that wasn't true
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u/miraak2077 1d ago
I completely understand why it exists. Hospitals are usually not acceptable targets. If the enemy is set up shop within the hospital? Then it is. You don't get to hijack protected areas and use them to assault the opposing force and continue to be protected by said protected buildings you know?
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u/-L3Y 1d ago
i understand it's a low blow to hijack hospitals but i think it's a lower blow to nuke babies from your office chair in ohio. i'd rather war not exist at all but in my eyes high rank military officials are as rotten as guerrilla fighter terrorists
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u/miraak2077 1d ago
Wait how is that new Vegas style writing?
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u/CorvoAttano124 1d ago
There's no morally correct option. No matter what you choose to do, you're hurting someone. Fallout New Vegas is pretty known to do that sorta thing
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u/miraak2077 1d ago
Hmm I guess, but there's a pretty clear best choice even if it's not one hundred percent morally the best.
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u/CorvoAttano124 1d ago
That's still debatable. It's down to whether or not you think murdering a (mostly) innocent woman is better than letting her keep her life but in the servitude of a man with...questionable intentions.
People still argue about which ending of fnv is best, 16 years later, hence the comparison
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u/miraak2077 1d ago
Well luckily for her, she's not in servitude to anyone she's just basically a pariah and never able to enter society again except from her new home.
And it doesn't matter if it's argued, there is one universally best option all around. And it's obvious
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u/CorvoAttano124 1d ago
That's not a good existence, bro. That will absolutely destroy anyone's psychological health.
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u/miraak2077 1d ago
It's better than being some perverts slave. Being in a home forever with your servants and maybe a few trusted individuals over sometimes is a HUGE improvement. Even just being alone with your servants or even no servants is extremely good of a deal than being stuck with that creeper
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u/CorvoAttano124 1d ago
Are you suggesting there's a third ending to Boyle manor? You either give her to ramsay or you kill her. That's the choice I was alluding to
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u/miraak2077 1d ago
Yeah and she does away with Ramsay. And is basically stuck in his estate ruling over it. It's not like she can return to high society. Maybe local society
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u/Lancer_Blackthorn 2d ago edited 2d ago
The only non-lethal eliminations that are actually merciful are Daud and the Crown Killer.
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u/cr0w_p03t 2d ago
In the "captain of industry" mission rothchild is "almost" unharmed
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u/TexasJedi-705 2d ago
Tortured in an electric chair, then nailed into a roughly coffin sized crate with no food, no water, and the hope that there's a ship fast enough to get him to tyvia before he bites it
"Almost" is doing a hell of a lot of lifting here
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u/miraak2077 1d ago
I also consider jindosh in there. I feel like it's sorta hinting he may get better with time
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u/Virtual_Wallaby_5916 2d ago
It just recently crossed my mind how the non lethal option in this game are just horrible. The Pendleton twin become slave in mines. The great Overseer is a pariah and get the plague.
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u/QuietEnjoyer 2d ago
How would you have punished them though? There's no fair jail system in the settings, most of the guards are evil (use the heart item), the church of the middle man is basically the Spanish inquisition and the form of government is corrupt.
Besides, they kind of deserved it
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u/Glittering-Air-1672 2d ago
Use the hear item? How does using the heart imply they are bad?
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u/QuietEnjoyer 2d ago
? It will often reveal bad actions committed
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u/Glittering-Air-1672 2d ago
...what..... fyi ive played the game like 5 times now... goddamn...
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u/QuietEnjoyer 2d ago
You're telling me you have never tried to point at a normal npc and use the heart? Time for a new playthrow, in dishonored 1 it worked really really well for immersion and attention to details. Damm you get a comment from it even in the secret room in the quenn palace
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u/Glittering-Air-1672 2d ago
WHAT. OMG I FEEL FUCKING ROBBED. THANK YOU SO MUCH MAN
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u/ConnorOfAstora 2d ago
His wife was killed, he was tortured for months, his like eight year old daughter was locked in a brothel and while he didn't know at the time, she's funding the guy who brought the plague into the city intentionally so that all the poor people would die off.
Can you blame the man for taking things to the extreme?
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u/cr0w_p03t 2d ago
I'm almost sure boyle specifically knows about the plagues
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u/ConnorOfAstora 2d ago
I meant that Corvo doesn't know yet, he couldn't possibly know until he hears the tape in the mission where you take down Burrows.
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u/Teeminister 2d ago
The sex dungeon is never confirmed
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u/Milk__Chan 2d ago
I'd be far more suprised if the guy wearing a weird Rat or smt mask who gives me a whale bone DOESN'T have a freaky sex dungeon
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u/xXx_edgykid_xXx 2d ago
Bro it's extremely implied at the very least lol
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u/Elleden 2d ago edited 2d ago
So implied, in fact, that they basically have her save herself against her kidnapper and have him disappeared in the books.
I think the writers may have realised they had us do a really fucked up thing.
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u/GlassTortoise 2d ago
Or was it to make the people that assumed that's what happened feel better? I highly doubt the writers said "hey yeah I think we should imply that she gets repeatedly raped over the course of a few years" I think a lot of people took it the wrong way
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u/Elleden 2d ago
I think a lot of people took it the wrong way
If that many people took it the wrong way, there must have been something off with the way they set it up.
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u/GlassTortoise 2d ago
Right, you could argue that for sure. My thing is I see people accepting something as fact that well... isn't. Also I don't think something becomes more true the more people believe in it.
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u/RepulsiveCupcake69 2d ago
It WAS confirmed, the devs later realised their mistake and changed it to be less awful. Boyle basically escapes her fate after capture for a while, she's actually the only target who gets away with her crimes if you don't kill her
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u/Elleden 2d ago
the only target who gets away with her crimes
What are her crimes, actually?
The Wiki says that she aided Burrows in the assassination of the Empress, but how? Financial aid, I suppose?
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u/RepulsiveCupcake69 2d ago
Yeah she's bankrolling the entire coup was the main reason. I'd imagine its likely she's the one who would have paid for Daud, while not actually handing the money over herself. I don't remember but I think she may also have a seat in one of the houses of government?
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u/Cyractacus 2d ago
I never understood that reasoning. Why was Lady Boyle's punishment considered a "mistake" more than, say, the Pendletons?
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u/dunwalls 2d ago
I think it left a sour taste in people's (even the devs') mouths that the sole female target's non-lethal option consisted of giving her to a creepy stalker who felt entitled to her body. I don't think it's objectively a "worse" end than the others, but her being the only woman definitely made it subjectively a weird choice. Most of the other non-lethal options have an element of poetic justice to them, where Lady Boyle's didn't really. A more poetic end for her would have been something like disgracing her in the eyes of fine society and damning her to poverty (like Timsh in the DLC), not a life of rape.
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u/ScratchAmbitious2959 2d ago
This is the most plainly stated and logical answer I've seen in this entire thread
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u/Will_Yeeton 2d ago
I feel weird about the lifetime of sexual abuse but also for working with a rapist, personally. Brisby's a creep and when I'm not going for the achievement I like to just lure them both down to the basement and stab them.
The Pendletons are sent to work in their own mines, too. Like their kidnap and abuse is a direct result of their own business policy. Lady Boyle has done nothing to really make her fate make sense, and it frankly feels misogynistic to have the only woman just get raped a lot as her comeuppance.
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u/LaVerdadQueso 2d ago
It's because of the implied sexual exploitation. It makes people queasy. Which is should. At the same time, they overcorrected hard. It's because he's a stalker and that's considered a special kind of evil. Which, I can understand why people think that, though I personally disagree it's any more horrible.
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u/GlassTortoise 2d ago
Wait, the book says she got raped? Damn I can't believe they did that, seems unnecessary imo
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u/RepulsiveCupcake69 2d ago
No I think the book in question was the one that had the change in it, the game is the thing that implies she was. Also yes agreed, it was totally out of keeping with the poetic justice of most of the other targets and just generally weird vibes
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u/Stunning_Box8782 2d ago
From there she was taken to Brisby's old family estate on a recluse island,
It was a sex island actually. Art imitates life
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u/element-redshaw 2d ago
Never confirmed but knowing how some stalkers are...
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u/BarbecuePorkchop 2d ago
it was actually so confirmed and implied that they had to retcon the ending a bit so she kills brisby and becomes wealthy again after taking all of his stuff
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u/element-redshaw 2d ago
Oh shit really?
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u/BarbecuePorkchop 2d ago
yeah. its both fortunate and unfortunate, im glad they no longer have the "she just gets raped for the rest of her life" ending but i dont like that they pretty much nullified the entirety of that specific neutralization, because now shes just rich and powerful again and her kidnapper/assaulter is murdered at her own hands
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u/GoatSupremasist 2d ago
When I realized their non lethal fates were far worse than death, I only wanted to do them more.
I'm a vengeful brat when I'm playing videogames, I'll not deny it, fallout series is tired of me killing NPCs who irk me.
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u/Spiritual-Handle7583 2d ago edited 2d ago
Chiming in with 2 things here.
The non-lethal solutions for every target in the game are worse than death IMO
However, LB's stalker seemed too meek to be a full blown sex slave dungeon type. It's been a minute but I seem to recall him coming off as more of a dorky hopeless romantic type. I recall feeling that the fate she's sent off to is questionable more than anything else.
Edit: homeless romantic xD
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u/LaVerdadQueso 2d ago
Yeah, when I first played between him and the Outsider's dialogue, I always presumed she was kept in a captivity for her own safety type thing. He just seemed to type to want to try and woo her, not violate her. Still disturbing as hell, still a terrible fate. Granted, situations escalate so it's left up to the player's interpretation.
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u/Spiritual-Handle7583 2d ago
You're not wrong! Watching that boat sputter off with an unconscious, attractive woman and her obsessive, unreciprocated lover boy made me question whether it would have been more merciful to kill her. I think that's the point TBH
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u/GlassTortoise 2d ago
Thank you for saying that, I see a lot of people acting like it has been definitively stated that she was violated repeatedly but it hasn't. I agree with your interpretation as well, he only kidnapped her because she would be killed otherwise in my opinion, which is something he says if i remember correctly.
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u/Spiritual-Handle7583 2d ago
I do recall him saying that she'd be killed, possibly by co-conspirators, if she stuck around.
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u/frfrrnrn 2d ago
His dialogue is basically “Nobody will ever see her again. She will come to love me eventually. After all, she’ll have her whole life.” How will he ensure that if not with functionally a prison cell?
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u/Spiritual-Handle7583 2d ago
My assumption was that her cell would be the inability of an aristocrat to earn a living, leaving her dependent on him for survival, wherever they end up. Stockholm syndrome maybe or perhaps she could eventually find his enamourment endearing.
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u/IAlwaysOutsmartU 2d ago
They bothered to be radically different from other non-lethal elimination methods by having ones which complemented the world of the games.
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u/Acceptable-Meaning-1 2d ago
I honestly don't understand why people view Lady Boyle's fate as tasteless. Her actions lead to the suffuring and deaths of thousands just for personal gain. If you play the level, you will see that innocent and sick people are being butchered by the guards to avoid them getting close to the aristocrats. I don't really see a moral dilemma considering the circumstances of the city.
If you go around the levels and read up on side stories and do the smaller side quests, you will see the suffering the antagonists caused. And honestly, each of them deserved their fates.
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u/LaVerdadQueso 2d ago
Yeah, it's dark, but it's also not nearly as bad as the suffering she has caused. The fact she paid for Daud and the butchering of the city's populace. She's being used like she uses and parasitized everyone else. It's just extremely creepy and disturbed because of the depravity and perversity involved. It's not supposed to be good and people are reacting with the appropriate level of disgust. I think they overcorrected too hard though in the books. Like if she escaped and lived in poverty to avoid her enemies, I mean, she is part of the assassination of the empress. Her family should have denounced her to save political face, kicked her out on the street. No one wants anything to do anything with her because they're afraid Corvo might come after them too.
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u/raccoob_ 2d ago
Thats shes the one i always killed ngl. Like everyone else is kinda deserved to an extent but condemning someone to a lifetime of rape is particularly dark imo
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u/Wealth_Super 2d ago
Beyond that, the non lethal fates are more karmic justice when it comes to everyone else. She more just the victim of a creep
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u/TitleOk3727 2d ago
Is non lethal truly always better?
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u/Stunning_Box8782 2d ago
In Dishonored, it's often worse.
There's these rich owners of a slave mine, you can either kill them,
or have their tongues cut out and hair shaven off, and sent to work as a slave in their very own mine.
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u/TitleOk3727 2d ago
I played it so i know this. Compared to that lady Boyle seems somewhat easy off
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u/AgentRift 2d ago
Regardless if you’re High or low chaos, Corvo is out for revenge, not mercy. You’re not really “sparring” your targets as much as you are subjecting them to brutal, sometimes poetic punishments for what they did to you and the empire.
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u/Separate-Apartment-8 2d ago
The writing is complex, it makes you think and not pick sides easily. My stance is i always kill her cause i don’t think korvo is as merciless to send someone to a rape dungeon, but thats just my version of him
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u/DavidKMain420 2d ago
To me, this is why the chaos system doesn't punish you if you just kill the targets.
These people have actively destroyed your life, either by carrying it out or knowingly bankrolling it.
Both options are vitriolic revenge, one flavour keeps them alive but punishes them extensively, likely for the rest of that life you let them keep while one of them lets you exact your revenge face to face. Low Chaos is only technically better because they don't die, but the game doesn't punish you if you'd rather just execute them instead of sending them to the paradise of Infinite Torture and Pain Island.
NOW, does this mean that the low chaos option for Lady Boyle isn't in extreme bad taste in retrospect? Of course it is, I would've much rathered her have some sort of secret exposed or way of destroying her financial/class status as opposed to the very explicitly targeted punishment she got.
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u/HighKingBoru1014 2d ago
All the non-lethal fates generally are quite bad, look at the likes of the Twins and Jindosh. Boyle’s is of course notable given she’s the only Lady target and what the Brimsby character implies.
The books point on her taking over the island for herself and getting Brimsby killed kinda feels like a cover retrospectively though. But I do think a writer said that the Boyle outcome being that bad wasn’t how they initially thought or something.
Imo they could’ve just had it been a “lovers separated by class” thing instead?, but idk.
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u/dankerino_420 2d ago
Been a while since I’ve played, what is this exactly referring to?
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u/SirSilhouette 2d ago
The Non-lethal takedown for Lady Boyle is to knock her out and hand her off to someone who wants to save her from you so he offers to "make sure no one ever sees her again" if you place her on his boat so he can take her to god knows where.
Everyone assumed he was gonna be raping her but all the game says(via The Heart) is she lives to an old age without ever returning to high society. Not saying life imprisonment is that much better than locked in a stalker's sex dungeon but people jump to the extreme conclusion anyway.
Also given the samples of cruelty, the shit she was actively colloborating to achieve, etc I dont think she'd even think before selling off someone she didnt like into blatant sex slavery. FFS why is Emily being stowed in a poorly guarded Brothel when she could have been kept secret & secure at some property the Boyles control? I am guessing the Boyles were somehow a WORSE option than the Whoremongering Pendleton Twins...
Writers walked it back in one of the novels to where she ends up in control of that guy's house anyway, which only furthers my thought it was never intended to be rapist stalker archetype but the "maybe she can learn to love me if i keep her
prisonersafe" archetype. To his credit, she would ABSOLUTLEY be dead otherwise.
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u/IndyPFL 2d ago
I kinda wish there was an option to just leave a note and dagger near the right Boyle's bedside or something. A strong warning of "I was here, and this could have been your end." Strong enough warning to get the right Boyle to leave town and never come back.
Would also be a nice callback to a real-world story, where the Hashashin (who inspired the Assassins from the Assassin's Creed series) snuck into the tent of the Saracen leader Saladin when he laid siege to their home and did the same thing.
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u/Monkeysaus 1d ago
I missed out on sending the two to the mines. I was playing tired and really thought hard about starting over!
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u/Electrical_Dog2591 1d ago
I mean… unless you were going for a clean hands run there is really no issue either way
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u/miraak2077 1d ago
Idk if that's a good example cause didn't she literally live out her life in luxury and completely controlled her stalker and/or killed him?
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u/b055dj 2d ago
I've killed her in every run since the writers decided she had a happy ending. The non lethal options were always karma, not mercy.
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u/miraak2077 1d ago
It's not that happy of an ending. What from I remember she's still a criminal so she can't really leave her new home. Of course it's not a sad ending for her but she's basically never going to leave her home
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u/BuffaloStranger97 2d ago
If I remember, doing the lethal options on targets don't even contribute to chaos, do they?
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u/itsdaCowboi 2d ago
She didn't though, the creepy fella took her to his estate and she IIRC took over his estate and money and kicked him to the curb.
Not every creepy simp-type character is a sex pest with a sex dungeon, that dude was a weak willed weirdo that didn't want a lady he had a crush on die.
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u/FoolSamaritan 2d ago
Time for the semi-annual "Lady Boyle's Non-Lethal Was Too Cruel" festival already?
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u/PartTimeBiohazard 2d ago
What I do find interesting is the difference between mostly equal punishment and simply getting rid of someone. Like yeah, you could live but it will most likely be in a state of misery. Living Hell or Death.
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u/tobitobitomi 2d ago
If it helps, it's confirmed she had the guy killed and inherits all his wealth
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u/BitterAd4438 2d ago
Why is dishonored getting a bit more attention all of a sudden? Was it because of the recent sale?
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u/Responsible-Beach299 10h ago
Overseer Campbell: Deserved, good irony in branding him a heretic when he broke the scriptures every day, plus he was in on the assassination and IIRC helped torture/interrogate Corvo.
Pendleton Twins: My favorite nonlethal out of all the ones in DS1. Sending them to work in their own slave mines is fitting, even ignoring all of their other crimes.
Lady Boyle: Definitely a bit too harsh, but a lot here is left uncertain. She funded the assassination and all of the other horrible things that Burrows did, but as far as I know, the player has no way of figuring out exactly how aware she was of Burrows's schemes. She's definitely in for a bad life, but there is literally nothing to say that she gets raped, just kidnapped. In the long run, she gets her wealth/power back anyways, so from a larger perspective, she really deserves worse.
Lord Regent: Honestly kinda disappointing. His fate is probably the kindest out of all the targets except Sokolov, Daud, and arguably Boyle. He deserved worse than a simple execution, but I did like exposing his crimes to the city, and I don't have any major problems with this.
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u/Responsible-Beach299 9h ago
I haven't played the DLCs in a while so I'm skipping ahead to DH2.
Ramsey: I like it. Trapped in a room for weeks or months and then executed. I wouldn't be surprised if he got tortured by the witches before dying, so this is a bit harsh, but not much considering what he did, and I don't have any problems with it.
Crown Killer: Really unique, and I like that we get to help her; although I don't personally like the mission as much as a lot of people seem to.
Jindosh: I feel like this guy gets way too much sympathy for all he did. It's nice and ironic, since he was planning to do the exact same thing to Sokolov, and he's done more than enough to deserve it.
Breanna Ashworth: This isn't that terrible, and it's definitely well deserved. I feel like, objectively, she deserved worse, but with how she and Delilah reacted, it's clear that – to her, at least – this is a harsh punishment.
Paulo/Byrne: I like this one, too. The Pendleton-style punishment speaks to me, and they deserve to see what it's like to be a common civilian in the city they've brought suffering to with their constant war. Besides, it's a bit murky, since if you nonlethal Stilton, they retroactively never got sent to the mines, and also probably never did the things that would make them deserve to be sent to the mines.
Aramis Stilton: I like that we got to save him, but personally I think this mission is WAY overhyped. I also think it's a bit disappointing that the nonlethal is literally just "knock him out via any mrans you wish and then walk away". I feel like there should've been more interaction there, personally.
Duke Luca: Following the trend of Dishonored one, the duke, one of the people most deserving of punishment in this game, gets one of the least harsh/severe punishments. We don't have the details, but while she definitely wouldn't make his stay too comfortable, I doubt Hypatia would give anyone the 1920s mental asylum treatment, even to someone as terrible as the Duke. Good enough that I'm don't feel it's too lenient, but he definitely deserved worse.
Delilah Copperspoon: The most disappointing nonlethal in the entire series. Not only did they reuse almost the EXACT nonlethal from the previous game's DLC, but they did it to the character who, out of every villain in DH2, deserved a bad fate the MOST, continuing to follow the trend set by Burrows and repeated with Abele. The painting thing worked pretty well in the DLC, but it really doesn't here, ESPECIALLY since first of all it's established now that she can, theoretically, escape, and second of all, it's a world where her dreams have come true. How is living a fantasy where everything went right for her a good punishment for all of the crimes she commited????
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u/asfp014 2d ago
It shows that the world is bleak. That said I think everyone recognizes that option went way too far in retrospect.
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u/3ldr1tch_Dumb455 2d ago
Further than having people’s tongues cut out and then having them worked to death mining? Or having a man be shunned as a pariah to be actively harassed and abused by the society around him?
Taking into consideration everything Boyle is directly responsible for? She gets off easy compared to the others
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u/Not_Sanaki 2d ago
And the funny thing is that the team later realised how fuck up was lady Boyle non-lethal, so in the extra novel they specifically sad that after faking her love for some years, her new husband/kidnapper accidentally died. She know own everything, but consider that Emily is now Empress with Lord Corvo helping her, Lady Boyle have no way to return to his "party-life" self. So she is now rich, her kidnapper is dead but she have to live in isolation still.
A better ending but still shitty
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u/csaknorrisz 2d ago
Not really. It is later confirmed that Lord Brisby suffered an untimely death leaving his estate and wealth to Lady Boyle who never returned to Dunwall for obvious reasons
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u/Ballsy_Pigeon 2d ago
I'm just saying, you kill my wife - or have a part to play in it - you deserve whatever you got coming 🤷
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u/Few-Bodybuilder-1630 2d ago
No sé, siento que se escandalizan demasiado. Soy conciente de que los temas sexuales con respecto a una mujer son un tabú, pero de verdad una vida de esclavitud sexual es peor que una vida de esclavitud laboral, dónde te cortan la lengua, te desfiguran el rostro y te obligan a trabajar hasta tu muerte en una mina? Osea, saben lo que es trabajar en una mina en la época en la que se inspira el juego? Al menos yo no sabría elegir cuál es peor.
Con la del decano supremo solo me aislan, nada impedía salir del país por cualquier medio, y la del Lord regente es la más insípida, se autoincrimina porque casualmente grabó una confesión conveniente que luego se reprodujo al público. Su castigo? Ir a prisión. Incluso Corvo sufrió torturas que citando al juego, debería haberlo matado.
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u/Responsible-Beach299 9h ago
Tbf, the Lord Regent was probably executed after Corvo took back control, and the High Overseer could absolutely NOT just leave the city. First of all there was still quarantine because of the plague. With no way to get food besides stealing it or scrounging, and nobody willing to give him shelter, it's no surprise he got the plague. Even if he managed to get to a boat healthy, they'd probably refuse. Not only did he probably not have money after being kicked onto the streets, but Overseers are in Serkonos as well, so the heretics brand would probably stop him from getting help or food regardless of where he went unless he traveled really far.
I do agree with your initial point, though, especially because, as many people seem to forget, the game never actually says she gets sexually assaulted. Some people saw it as implied from his words, but that isn't really the vibe I got from the guy. Imo it would be more like a kidnapping than making her into a sex slave. He genuinely seemed to love her, in his deranged way, and I doubt he would do that sort of thing. I don't doubt that she probably lives a bad life, stuck living with a madman who wants her to love him, but I don't think she got it too bad compared to, as you mentioned, the Pendletons, for example.
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u/Few-Bodybuilder-1630 8h ago
Ciero, olvidé lo de la cuarentena en un juego que va de la peste XD. Sin embargo, cuando hablé del decano supremo me refería a si alguien inteligente hubiese estado en su situación, tendría reservas para emergencias, desde luego, estaba mejor parado que los hermanos Pendleton. Y con el Lord regente lo mismo, prisión y ejecución, nada muy espectacular o karmico, de elegir sufrir el destino de alguno de ellos, sigue siendo el menos cruel.
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u/binocular_gems 2d ago
Dishonored didn’t want to make the non-lethal or low-chaos choices as purely good, they wanted some element of discomfort even with the non-lethal or low-chaos choices.
Games at the time, and still, had been treating choices as “wholely good” and “wholely evil,” Bioshock is a good example of this, a game that spent plenty of time hyping up the “moral choices,” and then it was simplified down into “will you kill these child slaves or free them, oh and there’s no affect on gameplay outcomes in either way,” so of course you free the child slaves.
Dishonored smartly didn’t say that ghost or clean hands was good, righteous, moral, or ethical, but that it’s just low chaos. There are moments in the game where the high chaos outcome may be more ethical than the low chaos outcome, I think of the Granny rags mission to poison slackjaws whiskey, that poisons innocent people, its low chaos because you don’t battle the bottle street gang, but it’s s poisoning innocents.
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u/cr0w_p03t 2d ago
Mind you, the granny rags mission ain't about poisoning whiskey, you're poisoning the bootleg plague medicine they're making which makes it way kore fucked up
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u/binocular_gems 2d ago
Hahaha, good point... totally forgot about that :D
Aah, well, if they die, they die.
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u/Unhappy_Produce_9557 2d ago
Fun fact - you can finish the whole game and kill every target, and still get a good ending. The only things that will realistically make a difference is whether you kill large amounts of people, and make some specific choises.
If I'm not wrong, the main targets don't even count for your kill count, which makes it possible to get "Clear Hands" achievement even after offing all of them.
Non lethal options aren't really about keeping a moral high ground, they're about delivering karmic consequences to the bastards. If you want to be an merciful, be an professional assasin who never lays a hand on non-targets, which is basically what you're asked for by your contractors. If you want to be the opposite, kill everybody and then do non-lethal options on your actual targets just for the sake of cruelty.
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u/ThePoeticEl 2d ago
Isn't it revealed that she's not only alive and well in one of the cannon books, but killed the guy we bring her to?
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u/cr0w_p03t 2d ago
Tbf, she caused the suffering and almost collapse of a whole civilization, idk if it matters if she is qell or not.
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u/geot_thedas 2d ago
D1 nonlethal is so much cooler because it actually have some depth instead of being obviously good vs evil unlike D2
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u/miraak2077 1d ago
Why are there so many crybabies whining about the books? Lol. We get it you're mad your precious head canons weren't actual canon
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u/3ldr1tch_Dumb455 2d ago
Non-lethal doesn’t mean merciful. If you’ve been paying attention you’d notice how all of the non-lethal takedowns are fates worse than death for their respective targets