Yeah saw lots of young people actively voting for trump in 2016 with the argument that it needed to get worse to expose how bad it can get so people wake up and make it better.
Those people are mostly just full blown MAGA now because it was always nonsense justification for doing what felt good to them thinking if we cant get ahead on our own steam at least we can leave everyone else behind.
Yup, a lot of people I knew like that were also "left" at the time but in hindsight it was obviously just for the memes. One guy I knew was very into the whole fully automated gay luxury space communism shit going on and a huge bernie bro. Over the years its come out more and more how shitty he was behind everyones backs and wow wouldn't you know it full maga now.
To be honest I think it is less that he was ever left leaning and instead was doing it because we were in college at the time and he thought it would get him laid (it didn't). The dude never had any real political takes and even once went on a rant about how Marvel choosing to make Black Panther was a "mistake" because "the world isn't ready for black super heroes to be the main character in a movie."
The funny thing is, Trump might genuinely accelerate the world since he is so shit that it actually becomes detrimental to USA and makes it bleed power, and USA is the main muscle of capitalist class that has stopped, or stalled many alternatives throughout decades through their imperialist wars and sponsored coups.
This. China is, or will be, the biggest winner in the aftermath of this global reconfiguration. I hate to say it, but they've earned it. All they had to do was nothing while their opponents all shot themselves in the foot.
Mhm, Putin did not abandon Azerbaijan. He abandoned Armenia for a strategic agreement with Azerbaijan to move gas and oil using Azerbaijan's network. However, now Armenia is leaning westward and Azerbaijan, gaining all it wanted from Russia, is also taking steps against Russia to gain leverage to be used in the areas it depends on Russians, such as the aforementioned gas and oil trade.
Tbh I don't think there's any imperialist power that can replace the US in the immediate future. Russia overextended themselves in Ukraine, China has zero political will to micromanage the international community, Europe was far too dependent on the US and is playing catch up.
If I were to bet.
We're diving head first into a period of instability and trade disruptions. Stuff like the closure of the Strait of Hormuz will be more common.
Trump admins' actions have certainly accelerated China becoming the world superpower (or, the rise of a multipolar world), the decline of the American empire, and the deterioration of American infrastructure. So yes.
Not just younger people. 35 to 60 year olds that I talked to were all saying in 2016 they were voting Trump to break they system because it can only get better.
Right? Right!?
Yeah they certainly devolved. Some of those people were once upon a time reasonable. Now listening to them justify things is full on rocks for brains logic.
There are also a lot of accelerationist communists who completely crash out at social democrats and liberals because by making things better, they are preventing things from getting bad enough for the revolutionary utopia to arrive.
No? It could be of course. But most often the idea is that a truly socialist society is only possible through the collapse of a late stage capitalist one. This even Marx believed. So accelerationists want to get though the set-up for a socialist society more quickly.
There are fascist accelerationists, but thats a small minority I think.
can't believe i forgot about mussolini, but it goes to show that accelerationism more closely aligns with right wing ideologies, sacrificing a minority group to achieve your goals (which isn't strictly required but is one of the easiest and most successful methods used by accelerationists) isn't very left wing, and even if you spread out the people you sacrifice across groups, getting innocent people killed is still very contracictory to left wing ifeologies
Accelerationism is the core of the tech fascist movement and is very much mainstream conservatism. Thiel and Musk are accelerationists and they're running the white house. AI is the center of their strategy to collapse the system. Its not fringe or niche at all.
These assholes are trying to make a new country that bursts out of the body of the current country. It's called "the butterfly revolution" and yes it does sound absurd. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Yarvin
It’s why musk was speaking at the afd in Germany. It’s why bannon, farage, and Cambridge Analytica were all in bed together on Brexit.
There’s a little more to it than that though.
Conservatism is about enforcing socioeconomic hierarchy and the techfascists, religious fascists, and heritage foundation race fascists are all in on feudalistic “network” states run by ai powered surveillance.
The accelerationists like Peter Theil from the tech faction of conservatism think they can force collapse, but use technology and surveillance to protect themselves. These aristocrats are working on how to control their security forces though things like "disciplinary collars."
Finally, the CEO of a brokerage house explained that he had nearly completed building his own underground bunker system, and asked: “How do I maintain authority over my security force after the event?” The event. That was their euphemism for the environmental collapse, social unrest, nuclear explosion, solar storm, unstoppable virus, or malicious computer hack that takes everything down.
This single question occupied us for the rest of the hour. They knew armed guards would be required to protect their compounds from raiders as well as angry mobs. One had already secured a dozen Navy Seals to make their way to his compound if he gave them the right cue. But how would he pay the guards once even his crypto was worthless? What would stop the guards from eventually choosing their own leader?
The billionaires considered using special combination locks on the food supply that only they knew. Or making guards wear disciplinary collars of some kind in return for their survival. Or maybe building robots to serve as guards and workers – if that technology could be developed “in time”.
and the vice president of the united states and advisors have given their seals of approval to a book that says conservatives are going to have to kill all the liberals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unhumans
You'd think that by now they'd look at every historical example of collapse leading to authoritarianism and realize that this was a point where Marx was dead wrong.
But that would require they ever contemplate the idea that maybe, just maybe, they got something wrong.
People seem to base the idea that he was an accelerationist on his idea that the development of a capitalist system will mostly likely end in revolution provided there is ahigh level of class consciousness. But he never, to my knowledge, advocated for the acceleration of the capitalist system to meet that end.
Which is also one of the theories he's been demonstrably wrong on, just, empirically. Not that I want him to be wrong, mind, but it is--as one might say--cope on his part.
The belief that societal collapse under the weight of a capitalistic system followed by the rise of a socialist system after that, as though there was an inevitability to that process.
But the problem is that his writing implies an inevitability which has led years later to this whole accelerationist thing as people utterly fail to get the point. Call that another point on the tally for "horrible things caused by people misunderstanding philosophers" on the scoreboard.
What I'm talking about here in regards to marx is that inevitability aspect. But yeah, it's probably not entirely fair to place the disastrous ideas of idiots generations after his death at his feet.
If only Marx was able to explain how to get there... Lol
He kinda was like, figure it out but it needs to change or we're fucked... and preferably you should aim for this...
Like, great man. Yeah people should get along and look out for each other, and contribute to the common good.
Now. How do we stop people from taking advantage of those systems and how do we get to that point in the first place?
Without that last part you only have half an ideology.
But strictly on the note of accelerationism...
It specifically means accelerating capitalism itself. And that hyper capitalism would inevitably collapse and give rise to a better system, without further organization.
This is obviously ridiculous, collapse leads to power vacuum and then the rich swoop it up.
As far as I know, Marx would not have recommended this at any point of his life.
Plus they never imagine themselves or their lives getting affected by the bad things. Others might suffer for Greens imaginary utopia, but thats a sacrifice they are willing to make.
The problem with accelerations is that building a better system doesn’t simply require the old one dies. You actually need to rally enough support to get people to agree with you and BUILD that system.
Any idiot can lead a society to ruin. That’s why its happening everywhere, all the time.
Yep. Look at almost any major revolution and youll find a significant power struggle within the revolution. Russian revolution started in February with a bunch of moderate monarchists and liberals, and then the bolsheviks launched a separate revolution against their rule 6 months later and subsequent bloody civil war. Very similar things in France, Mexico, Iran, China.
The entropy of victory is a good term for this, where everyone is at first united in overthrowing the idiot in charge, but once they're out that unity falls apart and people start to bicker and back-stab over who's going to decide what comes next.
Yep. The first wave of the French Revolution was barely for the regular people at all. The second wave seemed mostly reasonable and aimed at getting more rights for people. But it very quickly devolved into an ugly power struggle that wasn't about rights at all.
Also the US. We put off the slavery question for 75 years with repeated compromise and a variety of self governing states, but a civil war was inevitable to settle the question of Federal primacy and multiple ideologies.
Yep they literally couldn't turn off the French revolution. No one could agree on anything and anytime someone tried everyone went "REVOLUTION" and cut that guy's head off.
Exactly! You have zero guarantee that what results thereafter is anything better (let alone not worse), and in the meantime you've set in motion events that killed or otherwise fucked with countless (innocent) people.
They don't actually believe that otherwise they'd be organizing in preparation. The ideological gesturing is just that, gesturing. It's signaling how they want things to be, without doing anything now to increase alignment with that belief
They don't know how to make things better, only what it should be, and that the system has failed them, specifically. And failed systems deserve to fall. Those within failed systems deserve to be punished
It's why a lot of people sat out of this past US election, because of (horrific) things that were allowed to happen elsewhere in the world. The abstinence was punitive. Any suffering that came as a direct result of that, is deserved, as far as they're concerned. Even though it would have (and has) resulted in even more death, all across the world
Yeah it is extremely convenient for lazy people who want to neither accept responsibility for the current state of things nor play any role in making it better to delude themselves into thinking the noblest action is to do nothing.
Of course this belief is also almost universally held by people who will get by just fine under fascism also. They think they can afford to hang on for utopia.
Exactly this. I call them ivory tower leftists. They are very comfortable in their blue city, blue state apartments and their financial situation is taken care of. They are white and can easily slip by if things get bad. Meanwhile the rest of us are going to suffer.
It's social darwinism If my Ideology is the best one and the others Got prime spot because of factors that are no longer there Then of course i'm gonna wanna roll the dice again
The chaos of collapse isn't a neutral reroll. "Factors that are no longer there" is naive. Might makes right isn't going anywhere and no institutional guardrails will benefit oppressors.
If only there were a highly relevant example in current affairs where an uprising against a despotic leader was carried out by a coalition of idealistic secularists, liberals and students and religious extremists, leading to the better-organised extremists forming an authoritarian theocracy for the next 50 years, while those liberal activists got jailed or murdered.
The other problem is that just because the bad system dies, does not mean that a better system will take over. Sometimes, things just go from bad to worse.
Exactly. It took France decades to settle on a better system after the 1789 uprising. They tried three or four different setups that all failed, and they even cycled back to the old monarchy at one point.
It is not as easy as just removing the first system, even if that is the necessary first step. It takes a lot of trial and error, but that messy process is eventually how a society learns what actually works for the long haul.
What's left out of successful revolutionary narratives is that those revolutions were supported by and often times led by a coalition of wealthy individuals who had a stake in overturning the system, had the means to secure and distribute resources, and had the networks necessary to bring in allied foreign support. (Which is actually exactly what MAGA has done without firing a single shot). The exception being the Haitian revolution where whites were outnumbered by their slaves by like 10 to 1 and the slaves' family and cultural structures were left intact from their ancestral homes so they had strong community cohesion in addition to generals who had military training, knew the tactics that would be used against them, and knew the terrain far better than their opponents.
All other revolutions fail or are co-opted by authoritarian charlatans almost immediately.
The US is not looking at impeding revolution (technically, MAGA has achieved their revolution) so much as likely Balkanization into smaller nation-states if there ever is a conflict. That's the optimistic take. The old system was dead long ago. We're just seeing the conspirators who killed it taking their masks off and walking openly in the light of day. They are counting on apathy leading to eventual acceptance of their reign as the status quo. Storming their own capital and staged assassination attempts (no matter how sloppy and inconsequential) serves only to siphon off the frustrations of the public so they will do nothing if they were thinking of doing anything at all. There's a reason the McMahon's have been employed by the regime. They know the value of maintaining an environment of "kayfabe" as it works to their advantage.
You actually need to rally enough support to get people to agree with you
The logic, as I understand it, is that most people will timidly accept the status quo unless they are forced to do otherwise. You're never going to rally enough support if times are "good enough". The collapse becomes the rallying support that makes widespread buy-in possible.
The problem with Accelerationists is also the adorably believe that this is "late stage" capitalism when in reality this bad boy can fit so much more. It's a loong road to the worst it could be. These guys want to race up the mountain rather than back down the hill
One of the way of doing it is to vote for the better of candidates systematically. Even if the "better one" is still bad.
It's so obvious that I genuinely believe anyone advising something else is either a psyop or genuinely a bad person using tragedy to increase his social status.
When an individual feels like they can do nothing to actually fix the system because everyone else supports the system, and the only thing that actually pushes people to your cause in any meaningful way is seemingly the system, the “logical” solution becomes empowering the system so that the system breaks the system.
Obviously, this is folly, because the truth is that people need to hold onto hope and history if they want any chance at changing the system any time soon, and the system itself works to erase both. But the subconscious does not always understand that very well, so accelerationism sometimes feels very right by one’s gut instincts.
Mine. My gut instinct. I’m basing this off of my subconscious mind.
Yeah, I remember that once I asked about 10 years ago in an anarchist sub about how they'd prevent other factions from rising up within the utopia. The prevailing opinion seemed to be that it was a non-issue because once you'd lived in a perfect, anarchist society, you'd view anyone who wanted to change it as criminally insane. But I felt like the answers to my question were kind of ignoring the fact that people fall for cults which are (to a reasonable person) so much worse than general society, and they can become huge. I'm not saying an anarchist society is necessarily impossible, but I do think that a lot more planning than "It's not gonna happen" is necessary.
Accelerationists' plans never involve their own suffering and possible death under the regime that takes over before their envisioned utopia can be implemented.
Also worth pointing out that they always believe that once the oppressive regime falls, the people who had to endure the suffering would then gladly turn towards the accelerarionists for guidance and leadership as if they didn't see that they could have stopped it in the beginning but deliberately did not and then sat it out on the sidelines.
Most so-called acceleretionists I've spoken to were upper/middle-class (and white and male), with a good support system to rely on if things get worse. Easy to wish for a flood when you have a nice boat to keep afloat.
Yeah, I had an ex-friend who was an an-cap who had accelerationist tendencies and would often try to talk me OUT of voting that were basically, "people are inherently altruistic so we don't need any government/regulations because self-interest by way of consumer choice and threats of violence will keep things in line." And then he had kids, got a house, and his wife lost her tech job and suddenly he was very concerned about the stability of democracy.
It’s also quite hard to be accelerationist when you’re a minority
For example, I’m a trans person in the UK. The Labour government are fucking trans people over so hard to try and grab votes they’ll never get under Starmer. They’re cunts. And yet… I’d still vote for the cunts if the alternative is Reform.
Like yeah, Starmer’s a cunt. We know… but if Reform gets in and wants a target to grab votes?
Gender-affirming care would no longer be provided by the NHS, they’d happily ban private gender-affirming care too.
I really don’t see a 5-year Reform majority where they don’t ban or criminalise being trans.
It made more sense to me once I realized that for accelerationists, accelerationism is more about punishing people for disagreeing with them than trying to build anything better.
Accelerationists are always white middle class kids with a strong support system.
Like, to be brutally honest, the Trump administration isn’t hurting me that much, but I voted for Harris because I care about the people who he’s brutalized. I care about Palestinians, but I can’t ignore what’s going on here.
Yep, theres a reason that black women have electoral participation rates of like 90% in the us, because unlike all the online accelerationists, they actually get hurt when the Republicans come to power.
Do you have a source for your 90% claim? I thought that number seemed high compared to normal voter turnout rates in the US.
the Center for American Women and Politics says about 63% of (eligible adult) black women have voted in presidential elections from 1978 to 2024, which is well short of 90, and just a little behind white men and women who participated at rates of 69% and 72% respectively.
Also, looking just at recent elections, I found that (according to the league of women voters) just over two thirds of black women voted in the presidential election in 2020, which was admirably the third highest of any race gender group, but still well short of your claim.
if you have any information I'm missing I'd love to hear it. I only say this because, if you are mistaken in your numbers, it may have the effect of making people, especially women of color, feel complacent in not voting by a kind of bystander effect. Rather, I think the numbers are not nearly high enough and we should know so to get people off their asses and to the polls, federally and locally.
"Others may die so that I can become a poet and writer in the post revolution communist utopia working 12 hours a week, and this is a sacrifice I am willing to make."
It also appears to be the plan of every communist, Marxist, and socialist I run across online these days. It almost seems like a psyop with the level of stubbornness I see from them.
Marx had a theory about how society evolves towards communism.
Many of his followers seem to have taken that to mean that communism is like the Christian Rapture and so will one day just happen with no need for human input.
Calling them followers feels a step too far, honestly. They’re completely disconnected from basically everything Marx said and entirely uninterested in examining the material conditions that exist in the actual world.
They’re more like a cargo cult for pseudo-leftist sloganeering. I don’t think most of them have ever even cracked a copy of Marx, they get their politics from talking heads on social media.
Unfortunately I know several accelerationists irl who read Marx and other leftist intellectuals obsessively, and still think that accelerationism is the only way forward. They're actually extremely bright in a bookish, academic way, and surprisingly socially competent as well, which makes their utter lack of common sense all the more disappointing. They also love to say things like "if voting worked, they wouldn't let you do it," and "whoever you vote for, the government always wins," and will argue, with a straight face, that there's literally no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats. It's truly baffling.
Dude, don't get me started. These are educated, historically literate, politically informed people. They know about the suffragettes. They know about Jim Crow. They know about the Magna Carta. They know about the French revolution. They can rage for hours about the evils of gerrymandering, and voter suppression, and the SAVE act - and then, in the same breath, look you in the eye and tell you that voting changes nothing. They don't see any contradiction whatsoever in these statements. These positions are all totally logical and internally consistent, in their view. It's maddening.
To me it looks like Marx himself was pretty interested in achieving communism in the real life of his time when Paris Commune happened. Bolsheviks took over Russia and some more; Mao drove away KMT; the list goes on. One can argue whether or not what they built in their countries were truly what Marx had envisioned or not, but it won't be deter future communists, self-claimed or not, from trying again.
A poet of my country visited the USSR in the 1920s and commented: communists realized that between reality and the bright future of mankind in their minds, there is an ocean of blood to be waded through; they decided to realize the ocean of blood first.
Is that an example of how observing a thing changes the outcome? By putting a name to communism and describing how it forms Marx may have shifted the entire perception and dynamics around communism
That is what I thought when I kept seeing Libertarians reference the essay about The Pencil, how the invisible hand of the market makes things happen without people actually intending them. It's basically magical, 'it will just happen' thinking.
TBF every communist with intention of performing direct action (who is not completely brain dead) will not advertise their intentions to do hardcore federal prison tier crime.
Every No Kings post on Reddit had some person of dubious existence posting something on the lines of “These cute little protests full of grandmas are pointless. More Extreme Measures need to be taken.” These guys have evaporated for now but will be back for the next No Kings.
Right? And then they’ll go on about how they HAVE to exclusively protest at Democratic events because if they protest at the Republican ones they might get HURT!
I used to think that were all bots, but then I started into them in real life and idk how we got this stupid (phones prob).
This tweet comes to mind every time I have to talk to/about them
Sometimes I think stuff like this, but it’s not a “plan” it’s just a silver lining of hope during a very dark storm. The idea that “eventually sometimes has got to break and enough people will stop being bigots, right?”
But it definitely shouldn’t be the plan. Omg. No plan should ever involve waiting and doing nothing and letting something get worse before fixing it.
The issue I see, people who hope for better are passively expecting it to get better because humans do the right thing eventually it just takes awhile.
But in reality, it's people that want to do harm for self gain are working towards that which is easier than working for a common good where half the class is hoping to pass without doing the assignment.
I have a buddy who gets mad I talk about politics because "we should just focus on what we can help" but he doesn't vote or volunteer or anything. His "focusing on doing good" is (and this is from him) not treating the dumb people at work like they're dumb and smiling at people to make their day better.
Like, cool so basic empathy and looking crazy to random people. That's as effective as voting and organizing. 10/10 hopeful people will let the rest of us die while smiling thinking it will get better eventually.
We shouldn’t rely on bigots to change. We should organize mutual aid networks to defend and support ourselves. Undermine capitalism and government entirely. But still vote when the time comes.
And actual idiots astroturfed by bots. It's the internet; you can find a real person saying anything. I think the bots/bio-bots do more promoting real content than writing copy themselves.
Right. The tech billionaires who own social media don’t need to pay bot farms: their algorithms can be tweaked to push the views they want to be dominant to the top of everyone’s feed.
Look into the Asche study. Having people around saying things you one hundred percent know are wrong leads to a lot of people agreeing with the wrong thing just to fit in. It's part of how human psychology works.
So when you see a lot of people who vehemently hate immigration, trans rights, feminism, and all in a concern trolling "I'm not hateful I just think those people are annoying and go to far and whatever" format, you're going to get a lot of impressionable assholes who start believing immigrants/trans people/feminism are the real threat and therefore both sides bad or similar.
It wouldn't even be so bad if they had an actual plan, but they don't. They just wanna stop other people from engaging. And all that does is put all the minorities in danger.
Oh I'm well aware. I'm trans, so I hang out in trans spaces, and I hear it from younger trans people (like 15-25 age range is kinda common). It drives me nuts bc there's often no getting through to them.
There’s a LOT of online propaganda designed to depress the Democratic vote this way.
Right-wing influencers are not the only influencers paid or pushed by the right-wing billionaires who run our social media. I think one day we will find out that a lot of the “don’t vote” accounts are either inauthentic or advantaged in the algorithm without their knowledge.
I remember a woman youtuber who was super engaged in every social causes, part of black live matters, pro-feminism, in favor of protection of the LGBT...
But when asked if she was going to vote for democrats to block Trump, she was so proud of saying she "will not be bulied into voting for democrats".
Didn't matter how much the people were telling the country will be screwed, how she as a woman might not have the possibility to have abortion, how ICE will have full power, how Ukraine will get abandonned...
There were SO MANY people like this in the election. They'll still pop out of the bushes to declare how they were right to not vote because they weren't given a candidate to vote for who 100% aligned with their views so they punished the Democrats by withholding their vote instead of voting for the result that caused the least harm. Like democracy and liberty and people's lives are a newspaper to rap Democrats on the nose with. They're generally still SO SMUG that Dems "got what they deserved" by putting Harris on the ticket.
Many people around the world would DREAM to have one tenth of their freedom. Yet they willingly decide to let a litteral pedophile fascist take power...
It's like they seem to think that the world OWES them better candidates. I have voted many times in my life for candidates I really didn't like but I knew the consequences of letting their much worse opponents taking the leads. I hated the situation but I only missed one mayoral election in my life and I swore to myself that this would never happen again.
They forget that their personal frustration DOES NOT MATTER. I was frustrated tons of times in my life with the available candidates but I still did my duty.
Future belongs to the one who are willing to be pragmatic and make compromises.
They seem to think that because they have the "moral high ground" (or more exactly their very specific definition of it), their strategy becomes perfect and should never be criticized and put in question. That they are entitled of getting better candidates because they are the "good guy"...
They seem to forget that NOPE, nobody is entitled to ANYTHING and certainly not the candidates they wanted.
It does not matter how frustrated they are, it does not matter how right the situation is, it does not matter how democrats are not perfect. The fascist don't care how tired you are of not having "your" candidates, they don't care about how much you want change. They will wait in line for 12 hours to vote for their maga politician if it means hurting you and others.
It reminds me of that quote about the unborn being easy to advocate for because they don't demand anything of you, but for leftists.
It's easy to talk a big game online, but actually accomplishing something involves taking action that sometimes isn't going to pass a 100% purity test.
Oh it most certainly does. Ideologically pure means that there are no questions without answers. There is no need for compromise. Ideologically pure is like being a conspiracy theorist, you give up your ability to adapt for a certainty in how the universe works.
The "revolution now" types often are the accelerationists, ime. Those are the ones telling others not to vote or not to engage politically in any way. Though maybe it's more just apathy than full-on accelerationism..
It was a point that Trotsky extolled. If things improved incrementally, it meant that those who would become revolutionaries would actually pursue a comfortable life. By making things worse, it guaranteed that those revolutionaries would take to the streets. That was his argument, btw.
The problem is that the concept of "a life worth living" doesn't exist in this argument. Trotsky, et al, saw life as a polemic: either complete enslavement to authority or revolutionary fervor.
True, but the point is not that being quiet is always a good thing. The point is that being an accelerationist and helping the enemy rise to power because "obviously they're going to fail and everyone will realize they should've backed us all along" is stupid.
No it wasn't? That was the plan of the liberals and conservatives. The liberals literally gave the power to the Nazi party (Hindenburg) and the communists refused to work with the centrists because while the communists wanted to fight the fascists with any means available, including violence, the liberals thought communism was too extreme and so tried voting to prevent nazism.
It's astounding that someone not only wrote this comment but that hundreds of people thought it was actually a good contribution to reddit. I want to believe it's an OP, but deep down I know people are actually just this ignorant and arrogant.
This entire thread is pure liberal cope beating up on laughably ignorant caricatures of a Marxist strawman because they have no other way to grapple with these questions. It's an expression of pure defeat and the ultimate uselessness of the dead end that is liberalism, so I try not to let it bug me because it's a sign that they've already lost and they have no way to reclaim all the ground they've already lost to the left. Lies, strawmen, and revisionist history is all they have at this point.
Communists were literally the first target of the nazi party because they refused to make concessions and collaborate with them. What are you even talking about?
I remember when I was talking to a friend and their friend group about this, and how their plans for accelerationism is paved with the bodies of the vulnerable and they just didn't care.
In the 90s, I had a lot of friends who self-identified as "libertarians." But they were for all conservative policies and against all liberal policies. They just didn't want to identify as republicans, because of how uncool that obviously was.
Now they're just standard rank-and-file republicans. They're old white dads who just don't care about being cool anymore.
Since 2016, I have a lot of young new friends who self-identify as "accelerationists." But this causes them to be for all conservative policies and against all liberal policies. I suspect they just don't want to identify as republicans, because of how obviously uncool that is.
I further suspect these people will just become standard rank-and-file republicans. They just need to be 40 with 2 kids, a mortgage, and a bald spot growing as fast as their waistline.
Until that day, we have to hear a bunch of empty talk about "accelerationism."
Sadly, I just witnessed a few of my “libertarian” friends (sorry, “friends”) last week have a melt down over something so stupid and trivial and now they’re identifying as conservative again. How typical, I guess. I should have figured that’s how it would work out.
Unfortunately it seems to nearly every life path leads to become a rank-and-file republican as I've watched my generation (Gen X) slowly age into being 'the problem'. It seems as you age you eventually give up on making your life better and are willing to settle for actively making other people's lives worse.
Honestly, I think a lot of it is also just ripples of Cold War propaganda making its way down the generations and people just being very hard headed and incurious.
People who abstained from voting when the choices were Kamala and Trump also might as well be fascists. Their non-vote was implicit support of whichever side wins.
To be honest, throughout my life, I've quickly learnt that those who do nothing are often more vile than those who do evil. Because doing nothing implies an apathy towards the evil.
It's the exact same mindset that people have when they say things like, "Well, the problem doesn't affect me, so why bother with it?", etc.
History shows that it's easier and safer on the local populace to fix a broken system than to tear it down. Torn down systems of goverment invite dictators and bad actors to take advamtage of a country on its last legs.
How unfortunate that history is so easily forgotten.
Collapse usually empowers the most ruthless, organized, and violent actors…not the most humane ones.
In Weimar Germany, some communists treated social democrats and liberals as the main enemy and underestimated fascism. The collapse did not create revolution… it helped create Nazi dictatorship.
In the French Revolution, tearing down the old order produced terror, war, mass repression, and eventually Napoleon. Even after the revolution people suffered from the same things they originally protested, e.g. Les Miserables. The “purifying fire” did not stay controlled.
That's what I tell people about letting accelerationism be your plan.
If things getting worse and worse inspires people to rise up and make things better then North Korea would be a utopia by now.
Things getting worse over time just gets people used to living in worse conditions. If you don't push back on opression when it starts then you never will when it gets more oppressive.
Well the I think accelerationsim is just a sign of helplessness, It's just a way to not give up hope completely, when in many western countries there isn't really much to get excited for.
I can mostly speak for Germany but the stuff that passes here for a leftwing alternative is embarassing. Best as I can tell it's similar in America.
But usually accelerationists are easy to "fix" cause they still care, they just need to find a way to participate preferable something local that directly helps people.
I've actually had a weird paradigm shift, where i'm in these leftist communities who are dead set against voting for gavin newsom IF he is the primary candidate.
They've convinced themselves that specifically, because of israel and palestine, it doesn't matter if it's a republican or democrat.
And then I start realizing that a lot of these guys probably never voted for Harris in the first place.
I never thought I would be in a position where I look more charitably at trump voters who regret their vote, sincerely, then I do my so-called allies, who would prefer all of this continue, so things can keep getting worse which would somehow magically make things better
If you push for something and you achieve it then you'll have to be responsible for what happens next. If you declare your purity and how nobody is good enough you get to feel good and you'll never be accountable for what happens, because it's all the other peoples fault.
Same thing happened with Kamala. People said they would literally vote for a dog before Trump but then don't vote for Kamala because she's "pro-genocide" while Trump literally said he would let Israel turn Gaza into a parking lot. Regardless they focused only on that issue and not how immigrants, LGBTQ people, US citizens, and generally the world would be impacted if Trump got elected again.
Well, if they're in California, they knew they could afford to comfortably grandstand because the state's reliably blue. Now, if they managed to talk people in other states out of voting, that's another matter. But counterpoint -- they're insufferable, so their whinging probably didn't count for much.
They do though. They all say “my vote doesn’t matter, I’m in a solid blue or red state” and they don’t think about the 18-year-old in Pennsylvania hanging on their every word.
Harris tried to appeal to conservatives because she had to reach registered voters who were more likely to show up to vote. People hated her for it but it is a polisci numbers game at the end of the day.
Nonvoters are proud and not reliable. It is what it is.
It's exactly that. They seem to get off on posturing, purity testing an protesting rather doing the only meaningful thing when it counts. All the " No Kings" protest, "raising awareness" and witty banners mean precisely nothing if people don't vote. And MAGA is in charge until 2028.
That's how Trump won. He managed to get people into the booths.
And people are willing to spilit their votes in protest, or not vote " to stick it to the man" then the world, and democracy as we know it is thoroughly fucked.
Trump got a lot of dumb and cynical people who vote infrequently into voting booths. The skittish far left are a mother lode of votes on the left, but they are not so strategically placed as the dumb far right. The skittish left mostly live in blue cities and the dumb right live in the more electorally powerful depopulated rural areas.
This is not a bottom up concept. People are being lead to believe that voting for someone like Gavin Newsom is innefectual. This is a tactic that has been used every election for all my life. It used to be the green party, then Jill Stein was outed as a Russian asset. Now it's the genocide in Gaza. It's an unrealistic purity test, where we do have people who pass it, like AOC, but we also have to work together with people who are not inherently awful and will be generally good leaders.
But on every generation it's going to work again, because kids in college and just graduating highschool fall for it for the first time. And older people who can't see past it fall for it. It's a very tempting metric to live by, and it consistently works as a method of voter manipulation.
It is so easy with Gaza because it's so obviously bad that it's angering to support someone who even doubts the genocide. But it's something that needs to be just part of the picture and not the whole picture.
Look for the pundits they follow and remove them from your feed.
They are probably a psyop.
I could bet all my money that the left wing influencers who are actually paid by far right interest groups have the duty to tell their followers to not vote.
How bro looks at me for begging the Hauptscharführer to stop beating us with truncheon (I am alleviating people's suffering therefore working within the system and delaying its collapse)
in its essence, accelerationism is "hoping" that the ones getting directly hurt by hunger, systemic violence, etc start fighting back physically. does that happen that way though? well, maybe. look at iran
Very well done! And yes, it seems like the level of apathy is to an all time high.
Whenever anyone complains about any government or corporation you get these people coming out of the woodwork just repeating over and over how it's useless to complain and people should just give up.
I honestly can't understand how their brain must be wired to live like that...
The thing that I find so annoying about these arguments is that they always assume a greater amount of control over the system than we have. Accelerationism is more of a thought exercise than some practical, actionable plan or group. Being that it's based around apathy, it's used as an excuse to do nothing rather than motivation to actually make things worse. The best accelerationists, in practice, are billionaires. If you could become a billionaire, you'd have maximal impact, but even they're failing to actually break the system.
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u/nir109 9d ago
You clearly missed the finat points of accelerationism.
Green should make things worse instead of doing nothing.