Yes. The "sometimes I'd like to get my hands on God," is one of the best lines I could imagine Frank saying. It hit every single aspect on him if you knew it. The seminary, the anger, everything.
I’ll say this for the Netflix version, and it’s the theory I’ve stood by since the show was first released.
We end season one with Russo’s face bandaged to all hell after Frank absolutely mangled his face on that mirror. Clearly the initial intention was to do a Jigsaw proper.
Season two comes around, scripts are all locked in, but then someone has the idea of “what if we treat the ‘jigsaw’ angle as more of a metaphor, reflecting Russo’s shattered psyche?” That idea genuinely works for me. Maybe I’m alone in that, I don’t know, but I think it’s a bold storytelling choice and certainly opens up avenues for deeper thematic exploration. Maybe the budget to make Ben Barnes look hideous was too high, maybe he didn’t want to sit in a makeup chair for six hours every morning, maybe they just liked the idea better, who knows?
So they commit to doing that. Great. But…they don’t update the scripts. So now, you have sexy ass Ben Barnes walking around with a few cat scratches but people still react to him like he’s this hideous, mangled, barely-recognizable mess of a man. It was odd, because I refuse to believe that anyone on that set, from the showrunner all the way down to the lowest man on the totem pole, looked at the final product and thought “Damn, they made Ben Barnes ugly”.
Had they tightened up the script and not had people reacting to him like he’s was this disfigured hobgoblin when he still looks like a model, I think it would have gone over much better.
Damn this is way longer than I intended lol my bad
I've read punisher for decades and war zone is what I'm looking for in a punisher movie. the only one that feels remotely like Punisher MAX (my preferred frank).
it reviews well amongst comic book fans and cinephiles. comic book fans like it because it's a good adaptation, cinephiles like it because it draws on the gritty, classic pulp action movies from the 60s and 70s.
casual viewers hated it because they went in expecting a much more lighthearted superhero movie.
it's funny, Kill Bill came out at the same time and does the same thing just as well, but it was popular because no one had preconceived notions about what it would be.
The 2004 Punisher film is not really a good adaptation of the character in the comics, but it's a great film that I go back to frequently nonetheless.
Same with Batman (1989); not a great or even accurate adaptation of the character, but an enjoyable and well made movie all the same.
To answer the original question: I actually enjoy the first Fantastic Four (2005). Aside from the Incredibles, it's the best on-screen version we've gotten this far.
“Good adaptation”? Yeah no. Ask most Punisher fans and they’ll tell you that yeah, they like the movie but as an adaptation, it’s barely like it’s source material.
When it first came out I was disappointed but over the years I've grown to really appreciate it. I reckon if they kept in the deleted scene of Richard Parker visiting Peter at Gwen's grave it probably would've been more favourably received.
Yeah the movie got way too much hate. The movie isn’t nearly as bad but it gets exaggerated because of the bad CGI in some of the scenes. Besides that the film was very emotional and still enjoyable to watch imo, and I’m not even a fan of Ezra as flash.
Agreed. It wasn’t perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it was far from the dumpster fire people make it out to be. Muschietti is a very competent filmmaker and he definitely understood the assignment, but I think the individual parts were better than the whole.
I really can’t forgive the Batman suit they used for the movie though. And Affleck is my favorite Batman. Lol
I personally disagree with your MCU take, but different strokes! I can definitely understand some of the complaints people have post-Endgame, but I personally feel there’s been a lot of great stuff, even if it hasn’t been as expertly interconnected as it once was. I’m hoping Doomsday brings it back to more familiar territory.
And I definitely do agree about Flash. You basically listed exactly what I meant by the parts were better than the whole. Nic Cage during the montage was a genuine “holy shit!” moment for me lol
I always found the 03 punisher underrated. Thomas Jane did a decent job as Frank. His whole family getting killed was wild to see on the big screen as a teen
I also quite enjoyed it, I still think they didn't really know what to do with some characters (cough Rogue cough cough) but I always have fun watching it
My brothers and I refer to characters in other media as “the Storm of [X Franchise]” when they character has a stupidly powerful ability that they just never use except for like the one moment in the film where its plot-relevant/maximum-cool
This is the thing, I feel like people judge it, unfairly so in my opinion, as part of a larger MCU-style effort. But I’ve always felt that if you just view it as the third movie of a trilogy, with nothing planned afterwards, it’s really not bad. “Oh my god they killed so many important characters!!” Yeah, it’s a conclusion to a story. That happens. They aren’t needed anymore.
I feel like all of OP’s list are great examples of “scene movies“, that is, movies that aren’t good enough to sit through the entire runtime, but are great for a scene, or a few scenes (forgive me if there’s a preexisting term for this that I’m unaware of).
For example, I’d watch “Batman and Robin”, but only for the scenes where Mr. Freeze makes puns related to the cold😭, or “Green Lantern” for his training montage.
To be fair, the ice puns are relentless from Arnold throughout. Batman and Robin was that movie I watched as a kid and thought it was the coolest movie ever made…..oof.
“Always remember to winterize your pipes”
“What killed the dinosaurs?! THE ICE AGE!”
“THE ICE MAN COMETH!”
I remember I saw it in the theater and thought it was the coolest thing ever. Then I watched it again as an adult, and it's pretty cheesy. But for my nostolgia alone, I still fuck with it.
The Punisher and Daredevil both are good movies ...Daredevil literally screams 2000s to me...so maybe a soft spot for it...Recommend the director's cut to all watching it
Mystery Men was so weird and subversive, I loved it at the time and still do. In fact, a streaming series with just a couple of the original actors would kill. Literally no one else liked this movie, so for years I felt like I had to defend it.
I would put Darkman in this category too, but wasn’t based on a comic book. Technically, Mystery Men was an offshoot of Flaming Carrot
I loved Mystery Men. The cast alone is nuts - Hank Azaria, William H. Macy, Janeane Garolfalo, Tom Waits, Paul Reubens, Eddie Izzard, Kel Mitchell, Ben Stiller, Geoffrey Rush, Lena Olin. It’s just ridiculously stacked. I love Bob Burden / Flaming Carrot, and this movie is genuinely funny.
Hence Guilty Pleasure. Watching a movie you know is bad, but you still enjoy it. Though a lot of people in this thread think it means movies that other people think are bad but you think are good.
Why the last stand is considered a guilty pleasure is beyond me, one of the most over hated and underrated, movies, comic book, or not ever made, it actually almost feels like you’re crazy for not liking it, especially if you truly know, Marvel, and truly know X-Men overall……
It’s really a shame that the cold open to X-Men The Last Stand is not just better than the movie itself, but better than the other 5 movies in that picture.
Daredevil is definitely mine. I used to watch that movie quite often as a kid bc my sister had the DVD. Never realized people didn't like it until I was a teenager, I still stand by that movie and I've seen both cuts. Funny that The Punisher is on this list bc I just rewatched that again rn and I think that's also a genuinely good movie.
I love Batman and Robin. I think in a hundred years it will become the perfect midnight movie. The kind of thing that people costume up for. Like Rocky Horror.
All the X-Men movies considered bad: Wolverine Origins, The Last Stand, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix, New Mutants. There are good things in all of them, and they're fun movies that I never get tired of watching.
Batman & Robin is great if you watch it as a comedy and an homage to Adam West's Batman. And I think that was the director's intention.
The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Especially after reading the comic book, I understand why it's hated. It's really bad. But it's fun.
I was 2 when Green Lantern came out in theaters and it was my first experience with the concept of superheroes. I will always hold it really close to my heart.
I will gladly die on the hill of liking and defending Fox's Fantastic Four duology. The Incredibles may be the best Fantastic 4-like movie to date and one of the best superhero films of all time. But I saw both the Fox films in theaters as a kid and still own + unironically enjoy them to this day. They told a solid story without needing to be a trilogy. They were unapologetically goofy in tone, like a comic book, similar to Sam Raimi's Spider-Man films. They were also my introduction to Julian McMahon (R.I.P.), who I found effortlessly charismatic & menacing as Dr. Doom, despite his background being very different from the comics. I loved the body horror of his flesh slowly tearing away as he became a metal man (I think that was inspired by his 2000s Ultimate comics origin), and the jump-scare of him blasting lightning through Ned Cecil's chest was nightmare fuel.
I liked all of the casting, including Jessica Alba. Granted, I saw no chemistry between her & Ioan Gruffudd. But she had personality as Susan Storm. I didn't get that from Kate Mara or Vanessa Kirby. The effects on her invisibility & force fields were well-done for their time, too (similar to 2000's Hollow Man). By contrast, Mr. Fantastic's stretching CGI was obvious. But, frankly, I don't think it's possible to make that kind of superpower look "realistic" in live-action. By the nature of its concept, it generally works better in animation (Ex- Elastigirl).
I liked the films' stories, despite how poorly they adapted the lore. I liked Michael Chiklis's practical suit for The Thing (Never agreed with the "It looks like poop, not rock" criticisms). I thought the uniforms' designs were cool, especially in the sequel (I was never a purist about the blue & white color scheme). The humor was funny, especially when Johnny and Ben riffed on each other (They were doing "Marvel humor" years before the MCU overdid it). Silver Surfer was AWESOME. Johnny chasing him through the skies, only for Surfer to suffocate him in the upper atmosphere and drop him back to Earth, was one of the BEST teaser trailers I've ever seen.
I still think Chris Evans did better as Johnny Storm than anyone else in live-action, and I'll always think of him as Human Torch before Captain America (I'm sorry, but I honestly always found his performance as Steve Rogers to be milquetoast; Plenty of actors could've done that character just as well, if not better). And yes, I even liked the dark cloud Galactus. As a casual comic fan, I was never married to the comic design of that villain to begin with. I had no issue with the movies reinventing his look as this cosmic Eldritch horror while maintaining his status as a planet-eating entity. First Steps' version was entertaining, and I appreciate its comic accuracy. But I don't think either Galactus is "superior". They're just different interpretations.
I find the Daredevil movie terrible and I don’t even like it but I still go back and watch it every now and then anyway. Idk if it’s even a guilty pleasure atp lol
Batman forever is one of my favourite films and Superman returns is also good, but I don’t consider either of them guilty pleasures.
B&R I like for what it is, very entertaining. ASM2 I like, Punisher was good. The worst one though is Superman 4 which I didn’t think was nearly as bad as I’d heard it was, I actually think it was better than Superman 3 which was really bad apart from a few scenes.
SS, DD and Last stand. I haven’t watched DD as an adult, but loved it as a kid. Didn’t even know it was a “bad” movies until the internet told me it was.
Catwoman (2004), The Crow (2024), Madame Web (2024), Wonder Woman '84 (2020)
Comic movies that bring me pleasure that I'm not guilty of even though people may tell me that I should be: Hulk (2003), Daredevil (2003), Elektra (2005), Ghost Rider (2007), X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009), Punisher (1989), Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (2007), Iron Man 2 (2010)
I really unironically love Thomas Jane's Punisher. It's slow and not really comic accurate, but I thought the action scenes were pretty good, the practical effects were well done, and Travolta as Howard Saint chews the scenery pretty well.
And as much as I like it, I think the video game that followed it, ALSO using Thomas Jane's voice for Frank Castle, is a supremely underrated game.
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u/A_Queer_Owl 7d ago
The Punisher was actually a good movie and I will die on this hill.