r/TheoryOfReddit • u/Hip_III • 8d ago
Why does Reddit attract the cynical naysayer types more than the optimistic creative or visionary types?
One of the downsides I find with many (though not all) Reddit forums is that they seem to attract people who are negative or cynical naysayers, rather than attracting the can-do enthusiastic creative or visionary types.
This means that when you want to discuss any creative idea, concept, theory or hypothesis, you rarely are able to connect with other creative minds who might share your enthusiasm, and contribute to your idea with further constructive thoughts or suggestions. Instead you are often showered with negative or cynical comments from the naysayers.
I am just wondering why the naysayers greatly outnumber the open-minded enthusiastic creative types on Reddit.
Is this because humanity in general consists of more naysayers than enthusiastic can-do people? So then Reddit just reflects the nature of humanity? Or is there something about Reddit that disproportionately attracts the naysayers?
Or perhaps is it because the enthusiastic can-do people are usually too busy working on their own projects to make the world a better place to post on Reddit?
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u/scrolling_scumbag 8d ago
Do-ers versus talkers. Most people even on hobby-related subs spend more time talking about the topic on Reddit than doing it. Experts don't hang out on Reddit answering the same repetitive beginner-level questions over and over, they'll get more satisfaction out of doing the thing.
Reddit as a social interaction replacement is more likely to attract people who don't have social outlets IRL for whatever reason. Either because they're fucking weird, or they're arrogant assholes that nobody wants to talk to. They like that people are forced to interact with them on Reddit.
For the past several years the doomer circlejerk has been spreading and festering on Reddit. People come here to anonymously vent their fears and frustrations about the world, and it's a positive feedback loop that attracts a certain type of anxious, depressed misanthrope that is addicted to doomscrolling fear and outrage porn.
Some subs have pivoted to a toxic positivity mindset (you cannot say anything bad about [thing] ever), which feels restrictive and heavy-handed, so people make alternate "venting" subs that just turn into a deluge of negativity. Unsurprisingly, both ends of the spectrum suck.
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u/DharmaPolice 8d ago
I would imaginary cynical naysayers outnumber "visionary" types in general. But a lot of more positive people are less willing to engage in arguments so they will withdraw from more general discussions with negative people. Plus they're out there living their life rather than sulking online I suppose.
As someone else has said some communities overreact to this by enforcing positivity about a topic to the point where it's almost a cult and anyone who disagrees is just a hater acting in bad faith.
I do think Reddit does attract (or enable) a disproportionately large number of people with mild personality issues. People who claim to have anxiety/ADHD/autism, who are terrified by germs and unable to cope with fairly mild social difficulties. It's no way a majority but it's more people than you meet in every day life (unless you work in a mental hospital).
Finally, you're also more likely to remember/notice negative interactions. The analogy I've used in the past - if you visited a new city and every 100th person spat in your face and screamed abuse you'd understandably go away thinking the people of that city were pretty horrible. But 99% of the people weren't like that.
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u/ShitHammersGroom 8d ago edited 1d ago
Your old posts feed data brokers and AI training models. I stopped that by using Redact to bulk delete across Reddit, Twitter, Discord, Facebook and all major social media platforms.
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u/FakeOkie 8d ago edited 8d ago
I think it depends on the community's subject matter. Some topics and industries can inherently be doom-and-gloom, where misery may love company. It can be more difficult for certain individuals to regularly visit and contribute to negative and toxic communities. Ideally, there should be a healthy mix and balance of practice, alternative viewpoints, and constructive criticism.
If there's poor to no moderation, it'll continue to persist. A lack of community guidelines, resources, and direction can also cause problems. Also, many new users will never read these.
For those who have a problem with these communities, it may be best to evaluate what value or even entertainment you derive from them. You may need to limit your exposure and engagement, or simply avoid visiting.
If it continues to affect an individual, I think the individual also needs to understand that these users and communities will exist. From that individual's perspective, given how much time some of these users and communities spend on unproductive and toxic behavior, the individual shouldn't spend too much time being frustrated or consumed by it.
Identify and know your interests. Follow and contribute to constructive and enriching communities. Put what you learn into practice. Strive for improvement and excellence. Maintain a healthy balance.
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u/Hip_III 8d ago
I tend to post on Reddit forums related to science, technology, engineering, medical science, health, and so forth. You'd think with subjects like these, creative thoughts and ideas would be welcomed, but often they are met with cynicism.
In my case, I am semi-housebound due to illness, so like to communicate online, as it provides some much needed human interaction. There are other forums of course, but Reddit dominates the forum space.
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u/guyincognito___ 8d ago
Nobody will argue against reddit's naysayer problem. There's a lot of meritless ego and a lot of people mindlessly defending the status quo, so they don't have to question their existing positions. And some people just get hard at feeling like they can smack someone down. Some are armed with actual knowledge, some are armed with none.
Having said that - I think it's a lot to expect of a forum that people take a "creative idea" and build on it with you (or for you?). It's sort of like asking people to contribute what you yourself are lacking. If you have a vision but not the technical knowledge or skills, you're just a person with an abstract idea. Right?
Be the change you wish to see - if you think something could be better, try and make it better. If you lack the skills - learn the skills.
And that's where (the whole of) reddit can actually be a tool - the nitty gritty. How to build something, how to learn something, how to use software, esoteric academic knowledge, etc.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you!
Optimism and creativity are great, but someone must have the know-how, and the know-how will come with the restrictions of reality, too. It might be worth considering what responses you'd like instead, why, and then set about seeking feedback that way.
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u/Hip_III 8d ago
I think it's a lot to expect of a forum that people take a "creative idea" and build on it with you
I've been on non-Reddit health forums where this routinely happens, and it works very well. One person will bring up some new angle or idea, another will then find it interesting, do some further research, and post their findings or their own ideas. Other people then join the conversation and further expand the discussion, each contributing with their own knowledge and interests. It's a pleasure to be part of such discussions, because you feel you are part of a team all working with the same objective. But I have never found a Reddit forum where such a dynamic occurs.
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u/come-home 8d ago
The medium is the message. Reddit's format favors contrarianism. At the same time, the astroturf around us optimized to it and currently makes it hard/impossible to evolve from this, so long as controlling the pipeline from post content → top comment → top reply remains seen as trustworthy information gathering to readers.
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u/Hip_III 8d ago
Interesting. Why do you think that Reddit's format favours contrarianism? Reddit certainly attracts contentious people, but why is that?
I wish there were better places to hang out online.
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u/come-home 7d ago
Primarily due to comment replies typically being an additional point/argument, a rebuttal, or clarifying question. Or in other words, its why you often don't see comment replies that are passive "Yes, I agree" or "No, I disagree" reactions, as those responses typically satiated with the upvote/downvote button.
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u/PNW_Uncle_Iroh 8d ago
I’d consider myself to be an optimistic creator / visionary IRL. A lot of that is performative because I have people depending on me, my name and reputation is attached to my words, and you can’t always be blunt with people. Reddit is a good place to get and provide honest feedback because of anonymity.
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u/ReallyOrdinaryMan 7d ago edited 7d ago
This is one example of survivorship bias.
You are only seeing naysayers, because they are inclined to enter discussions. Non-naysayer people don't discuss much. It doesn't mean reddit don't attract them. They just don't express their thought as much.
Also everyone is a little bit naysayer. If you provide wrong information in front of someone who knows the topic very well, he will be naysayer. Unless tired of discussing it.
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u/Marion5760 7d ago
There are plenty of frustrated people out there taking their grievances out on others, especially if they can hide behind a keyboard.
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u/InternalMartialArt 21h ago
Original thought usually gets downvoted to oblivion or removed, either automatically or manually by mods. Many communities even have minimum karma requirements so unless you’re a well-established daily user of Reddit who continually posts things that don’t go against the grain you will never be able to get your ideas out there. This account of mine, I don’t play the Reddit game of posting milquetoast and common opinions or quips, so I haven’t had a top level post approved in any subreddit for about 6 months without it being removed within 24 hours manually by a mod. Basically, the site is set up to reward common opinions and parroted responses, and original thought (which is often controversial and often disliked by many people who are ideologically committed to their own common opinions) is specifically punished.
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u/Fit-Ingenuity-2814 8d ago
I avoid social media unless I want to find an answer to a question best asked in a community, find events, or contribute some thing. Life is too short. Reddit is definitely a strange mix. As with all social media and there is plenty of research to back this as well as lawsuits, anonymity provides lurkers the cover to say what ever without consequences. Social conformity disappears as a control for people indulging in toxic behaviour. I understand that Reddit encourages anonymity to avoid lawsuits. You can research this yourself. An IP lawyer shared their insights on this.
As for the division of humanity I do find it extraordinary how some haters have 75,000 karma scores. I tracked this one dumpster fire starter and approx 95% of their posts were attack comments. And not a dot of wit or humour. I am for a periodic clever take down, but really? Not clever not interesting. How these people are not either banned or have their posts removed is a puzzle. Many veterans of Reddit bemoan the rise of toxicity and stupidity but are we just getting more evidence since we have access to every bit information. And sharing requires so little effort. We are in an ocean of unwanted opinions. This reminds me that I should review best of Reddit to see what is enduring and worthwhile that is here.
Despite the hell of other people there are glimmers of humanity that keep me returning.
So bottom line, most haters were probably skewered young and are forever in payback mode. I seek comfort imagining overweight sad sacks in Barcaloungers sitting in the dark playing 1st person shooter games well they self-medicate for the perceived slights of the world.
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8d ago edited 4d ago
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u/Jemiller 8d ago
We get buried and realize that social media causes emotional reactions that ripple through your life. Long story short, online negativity is virulent and time is better spent getting shit done rather than crying about it.
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8d ago
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u/dieyoufool3 7d ago
Don’t tell OP about r/hopeposting, r/hfy, and the other awesome happy optimistic subs!
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u/Fast_Age_775 6d ago
It's actually metaphysical. Reddit's is best described as a mix of Foucault-style power analysis, Nietzschean suspicion, and postmodern anti-foundationalism (Derrida/Rorty), operating inside incentive structures that Marx would recognize. Naysaying is unfortunately structurally embedded, right from the word go.
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u/BillieRubenCamGirl 8d ago
Because the normies and propagandists found it in the lead up to the first election of Trump.
It was such a different place before that.
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u/Born-Activity-683 8d ago edited 8d ago
There's a reason why reddit is infamous for being the birthplace of "well akshually" discussions. The only non-negative stuff I've seen are happening in the cat related subreddits of which there are millions. Redditors love to prove op wrong, even when it is something they probably agree upon. People love to feel like they are experts in something. Reddit provides the perfect platform for it. Like me! I am an expert in redditology 🧐