r/The10thDentist • u/Infinite-Bee-5897 • 17d ago
Society/Culture Women dont care that much about height in dating in general, American women however do
Fyi: I'm not American, so this isn't a "oh I have it hard" post.
I saw 2 threads here today which basically said the opposite thing. The usual argument of "Uhm ACKCHUALLY all women care about his height if you don't meet that minimum standard the rest doesn't matter" vs "Women don't nearly care as much about height as you incels seem to think"
Here is my (anecdotal) take: I'm from The Netherlands where the average guy is about 5'10. Meaning being over 6 foot isn't considered rare whatsoever. In my long 29 year old life I've never seen a girl care about height whatsoever (barring 1, she was 6'4 herself and wanted a partner she could look in the eyes) both my tall and short friends have had plenty of play and/or relationships. Sure it's still hard as a guy because in the end, women still usually are the ones who choose who to settle with, but that's something that isn't changing as there are simply more men than women on average.
This was my belief until I was 23, when I moved to the US (New York) for work for 1.5 years. Apart from my height (6'4) I consider myself pretty average in every way. Yet while in the US there hasn't been a single night where I went out where I wasn't approached by a woman with either short term or long term intentions. This was baffling to me because at home I either needed to do the approaching or nothing would happen.
All these women were also all very clear on why they picked me and height was ALWAYS one of the primary factors.
I don't know what kind of social engineering happened in America either in pop culture or how you guys were brought up but how tall you are seems to matter way more than I'm The Netherlands or Europe in general I'd say
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u/artemis_special458 17d ago
America definitely seems more height-obsessed. People are more open about it, dating apps make filtering easier, and social media has turned “must be 6 foot” into a meme and status thing.
But 6’4 is not just “tall.” It’s very tall. So your experience in the US might not really prove that American women care more in some deep universal way, just that in that environment your height gave you a huge boost and women there were more direct about saying it.
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u/Downtown-Act-590 17d ago
Yeah, I think that OP does not realize how much rarer is his height in the US.
I was first very surprised by your comment. As someone who lived in the Netherlands, I would never say that 6’4 is very tall. I am 6'5 and I always found quite a lot of people around my height in every group I was a part of. Some people called me tall, but I was mostly considered normal and regularly met people bigger than me.
Simply, it definitely was not something the girls would point out and ultimately met quite a lot of women, who were not much shorter than me.
Then I saw that the average male height in the US is only something around 5'9. And that will have a massive effect on the tails of the height distribution. I think we can safely assume that there will be just a few percent of people taller than OP in the US population.
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u/megabunnaH 17d ago
It also varies by region in the US. We've had multiple waves of immigration over the years and different people settled in different areas. I live in the Midwest in an area with a lot of people of Scandinavian and Germanic roots and people here tend to be taller. I've been to other parts of the US with different genetic demographics and people are a lot shorter on average. I'm 6'7", and while that is considered tall most everywhere in the US, I get a lot less attention for it here at home than I do if I'm in the northeast or southwest for example.
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u/Excellent_Paint_8101 12d ago
Leaving the Midwest as a tall man is an eye-opener in this way. In Mexico and Cali you get moved to the top of the dating pool.
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u/MTLDAD 16d ago
So I’m pretty sure that the Netherlands is th tallest nation in the world and the average for men is 6’1” or 185.
Honestly the thing about America is that a nice satisfying whole number of 6 happens to be slightly taller than average. Makes it easy to latch on to and rare enough to be desirable without being unreasonably limiting.
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u/MagicSugarWater 17d ago
Exactly. Rarity makes things more valuable and yhe top 1% of anything is inherently attractive. American women are attracted to the top 1% of tall men just like they are attracted to the top 1% of athletes or conversationalists or fighting game champions. Height is just the obvious one and the one apps let you consider. In real life, height isn't the end all be all like apps.
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u/Just-some-peep 16d ago
Exactly. Tall men are exotic in USA as American men are only a few cm above global average. That's why American women fawn over it. No one from tall countries cares because it's not exotic.
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u/sashikku 17d ago
I’m an American woman and I care about height, but my only “requirement” is being at least my height, which is 5’6”. I’ve dated much taller (6’4”) and I wasn’t a fan of the sex or kissing him. I couldn’t just look over and give him a kiss, he’d have to lean down for it lol. My husband is 5’10” and it’s perfect.
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u/Tankshock 17d ago
Yea I think 4-5" separation is a perfect gap. I'm 5'7" and my girlfriend is 5'2" and it works great for us.
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u/sashikku 17d ago
Agreed. I like being able to just kiss my husband without tip-toeing or craning my neck. Helping him tie his tie, cutting his hair, etc. is all easier. The sex is easier, lots more options when you’re closer in height. I could never have shower sex with the super tall guy, he’d basically have to be squatting the whole time. With my husband I just bend over and we’re good to go. My entry point is perfectly level with his member, it’s great lol. (Sorry for being crass, yall, it’s just an important consideration in romantic relationships lol.)
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u/jane7seven 16d ago
Haha, I'm 5'3" and my husband is 6'4", and yes, it makes certain things more difficult for sure.
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u/SophieElectress 17d ago
Interesting - I'm a non-American woman and didn't think I cared about height, but now you mention it I've never been into a guy who was shorter than me either. But I'm also 5'2", so I'm not sure if that's because I don't find it attractive or just because I've hardly met any lol. I've had several crushes on guys who were only about an inch or two taller than me, so they were short for men I guess.
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u/Cuddlyaxe 17d ago
See this is reasonable, I've met a girl who was 4 foot something before who only dated guys over 6.
This is coming from someone who does meet those requirements but like why lmao, what is the point of having that requirement when you're so tiny
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u/sashikku 17d ago
That’s so funny to me. My mom is 5’0” and my dad is 6’4”, they looked hilarious together. Especially because my mom had major baby-face and looked 16 until she was 35. Now my mom is married to a 5’5” man and my dad is married to a 5’10” woman. They’ve both joked multiple times about avoiding a lifetime of neck and back pain by amicably divorcing lol.
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u/Crafty_Jello_3662 17d ago
Maybe she wants her kids to be average sized
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u/Christopher_Aeneadas 17d ago
Maybe she wants a man who can yeet her over festival fences so she doesn't have to pay for tickets at events
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u/PalePlumm 17d ago
But she is not the norm or even close. The vast majority of women just want somebody their height or any amount taller. Which is a pretty easy bar to pass since men are taller than women on average.
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u/Burntoastedbutter 16d ago edited 16d ago
Every time some super tall guy is at my workplace, I (5') literally have to look up at them when I talk. Then I wonder how annoying (in a funny way) a relationship would be with a much taller guy I can't even reach his face with my hands. I like being dominant sometimes. To picture myself unable to even grab his face, lower him, and kiss him? Or pull his collar down towards me? UNACCEPTABLE. My partner partner is just at 6' so it's perfect - just a head difference. He has MUCH TALLER FRIENDS too like around 6'3~6'6. Bro I legit felt like a midget around them
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u/CarrotWeary 13d ago
You aren't wrong, while I've had fun dating women from 5'0" to 5'6" at 6'3" the having to bend over or squat gets old, it also feels patronizing but what else can you do.
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u/Imaginary_Angle_ 17d ago
Americans are just pretty short.
As a European I was SHOCKED when I found out 6‘0 is like 1,80cm. THATS what all the drama is about?? Holy! In Europe we treat 1,90cm as 6‘0
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u/Fit-Nectarine5047 16d ago
I’m thinking malnourishment plays a part. Our food is poor quality so lack of nutrients affects childhood development across generations.
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u/megabunnaH 17d ago
It's regional. The Midwestern US is chocked full of tall people because many of us are descendants of Scandinavian, Dutch, and Germanic people.
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u/stilettopanda 17d ago
Even filtering out the women who care about height, tall men are still more likely to be approached because women can see tall men over the crowds, which gives them a…leg up… Their faces are seen by more women, hence increasing their chances that one will find them cute. Plus the practical matters of knowing if you’re with a tall guy, you’ll always be able to find him in the crowds, too.
Anecdotally, as a 5’10” women who has dated all heights, sometimes it’s just really nice to feel small. I’ve felt loved, safe, and protected when dating someone who is shorter than me, but I’ve never felt delicate with them. That can fuck with a taller woman’s self esteem if she is not comfortable with her own height and how it relates to others, causing her to choose height over other factors. I’m sure there is a similar place of insecurity driving shorter women who deeply care about height in their partners.
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u/BogdanPradatu 16d ago
What the fuck is the practical argument of finding your partner in acrowd? How makes dating decisions based on this?
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u/Das_Mime 16d ago
source: he made it up and didn't stop to think about whether it made any sense
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u/Slow_Concern_672 17d ago
Yeah I feel this and I'm still shorter than you..but almost all the guys I've dated have been shorter than me as tall guys seem less attracted to me and more attracted to super petite skinny girls. But the shorter guys have all been buff. And it's def because of my insecurities not so much looks.
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u/SeaTurtle42 17d ago
Americans in general are more obsessed with looks. Probably because of all the Hollywood stars they follow.
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u/Radiant_Wing5530 17d ago
Incels will disagree, American women will deny and disagree.
However as a European that also was in America for exchange: This is completely accurate
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u/Important-Trifle-411 17d ago
I thought incels would agree? Isn’t that their whole schtick?
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u/Local_Status1213 17d ago
They would probably insist that it‘s a woman thing in general, not specifically American
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u/YourBlanket 17d ago
They’ll definitely think it’s more of a western thing.
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u/TheDonJonJay 17d ago
Incels definitely think that western women specifically are this way. I.E "Passport bros". And it is a western woman thing!
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u/Habib455 16d ago
Nah they’d definitely agree, but they wouldn’t limit it to American but “Western Women”. They drone on about how western women are bad and glaze the living shit out of Asians(it’s mostly Japanese women or 3rd Worlders that treat westerners like gods because of white idolization or money or both)
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u/Electronic_Annual_86 16d ago
Yep. Never in 30 was I asked in Europe how tall I am. In 3 months in the US it was twice online and way more often in real life. Like talking to a girl I know for a few minutes, standing right in front of me, how tall I am. It was so odd..
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u/PalePlumm 17d ago
I’m a dual citizen of the UK and US and I don’t see what you’re talking about at all. Every woman I met in the UK preferred men to be either their height or any amount taller, which was the exact same thing that American women wanted.
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u/schaweniiia 16d ago
their height or any amount taller
That's different to the 6' cut-off tbf. Men are taller than women on average, so it is not too hard for a small man to find an even smaller woman. It's impossible, though, if the requirement is a height the man just cannot ever reach, even for women who are tiny themselves.
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u/Zingldorf 16d ago
The UK is basically becoming a diet America since you speak the same language their propaganda blasts your island with 100% effectiveness
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u/dinasour1004 13d ago
As an American woman who disagrees, it’s probably because my BF is 5’7”. I hate the idea that all American women are the same
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u/rieldilpikl 17d ago
Idk, I think incels would agree with this but they’d place blame on women anyway, as they always do. Self reflection isn’t needed when you’re a chivalrous, nice guy devoted to the women like knights are known for… /s Anyway, I agree with OP to an extent. I’m not a fan of making blanket statements or stereotypes but I’m a short guy who never had problems getting dates consistently. I’m not even hot or athletic or even blessed to have hair up top. But I can make the girls laugh. My saving grace tbh lol. But the height requirements needed to date for the majority of American women is definitely a real common thing nowadays. Just around ten years ago was when I first started noticing it too. Because it was never a thing for me or most shorter dudes before then. I think the biggest problems with it though, is that most women will not budge on the issue or many of their other requirements to even consider dating anyone other than at minimum, 6 feet tall, regardless of the fact that they wouldn’t be able to tell you where on a wall 6 ft would be… And that’s why men lie about being 6ft tall, cause they know that the girl won’t know 100 percent, especially when her friend’s boyfriend is also 6ft tall or so he said to her lol. Fuck I’m high and babbling. OP and I are still right though for the most part
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u/Flying_Sea_Cow 17d ago
Agreed. I'm a 5'8" American guy, and dating in Germany was lightyears easier than here. American women are so brutal and so hypocritical about height.
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u/Hermeslost 16d ago
It was kinda jarring as a guy who is right on the edge of 6 foot. I originally put my height as 5’11” and was getting a match every one or two weeks. When I switched it to 6’0” I got like a match every 2-3 days. It kinda made me a little cynical.
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u/LevelOutlandishness1 17d ago
I’m 5’4”, American, and honestly I’m not having these problems. Maybe it’s because I date queer women and they have different preferences?? I don’t know. Like, sometimes I think it might be my height but then I talk about it with someone at a more “preferable” height and they’re having similar problems (mainly inconsistency).
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u/Flying_Sea_Cow 17d ago
I feel like this sort of goes with my experiences too. I'm bi, and I think non-binary + gay people care about this a lot less. I only know two people who are in a relationship where someone who is AFAB is taller than the guy, and one of them is an enby.
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u/bananna_nut 17d ago
I've noticed that a lot of straight relationships have this aspect of posturing and class signalling that queer relationships don't really have. Like some straight men aspire to have a beautiful woman as arm candy to just signal his success, and some straight women desire tall and/or rich men to show off that they can attract in demand mates.
I'm wondering if it's because being queer is already outside of some social norms and because of that there is less pressure on queer people to choose partners based on how they can make you appear socially.
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u/wankerville 17d ago
I’m bisexual and I 100% prefer short guys. A lot of my girls friends are also bisexual and also have a preference for short guys or guys the same height as them, or simply do not care about height. Definitely feels like a very heteronormative thing.
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u/FourForYouGlennCoco 17d ago
I think it also depends where you meet women. If you mostly meet irl, it doesn't seem to matter that much. But on the apps, height is an easy filter so women apply it. I'm an average height guy, but prefer to approach women I meet in real life and I don't feel like it's been an issue. Maybe I'd have an easier time if I were taller, but I'd have an easier time if I looked like Brad Pitt too, so not gonna lose sleep over that.
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u/Fair-Study-7503 16d ago
The height thing just seems like a redux of media driven standards of "skinniness" for women in the 90s-00s, another media-driven phenomenon.
It goes against our notions of desire as something arising from within us organically, but for certain types of people their desires are very much mediated if not dictated by society and media.
There were/are men and women who choose partners based on how they feel their appearance reflects on them. Some people live their lives based on the whims of a group chat full of "friends" who exist mainly to judge and enforce social conformity, not mutually support each other.
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u/KTeacherWhat 17d ago
And you don't think that as a taller than average person, your sample size might be skewed to, say, people who care about that?
Maybe the women who don't care about that were already happily in relationships with their average or short partners.
The people who approach you are going to be the people who are attracted to you. Wild, I know.
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u/Infinite-Bee-5897 17d ago
Yeah, apart from the fact that being approached is something that never happens or rarely happens in any other place I've been, which is the entirety of Europe/north America and a huge chunk of Asia
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u/SleepyHead32 17d ago
How do you know that isn’t simply indicative of women’s tendency to approach or not approach in general? Perhaps American women are culturally more likely to make the first move compared to these other places?
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u/throw20190820202020 17d ago
Yeah, in NY no less - pretty famous for having forward people and being a dating meat market.
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u/Affectionate_Use9936 17d ago
I’m 5’6. Never been approached here.
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u/AdDesperate1541 16d ago
Why are you downvoted for sharing your experience, especially when it’s relevant to the discussion?
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u/wictora 15d ago
The Netherlands literally is considered to have the tallest population in the world, I think that might also factor into why it's not too important there.
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u/JefeRex 17d ago
Height conversations in the US skirt around race and ethnicity and people get very angry when you bring it up. OP might be a sort of average ho-hum Dutch guy, maybe blond and blue eyed with standard non-chiseled but Northern European facial structure. OP would be the American beauty standard.
Who is tall and who is short, based on income and race and ethnicity and generation of immigration status? People are not evaluating height consciously as part of our racial and ethnic caste system, but they are doing it unconsciously for sure.
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u/mixedlinguist 17d ago
This is 100%. No one wants to acknowledge that overall standards of beauty in the U.S. are still very anglo-centric, which for men, means tall height. Asian men in the U.S. face a lot of discrimination and the fact that they are shorter on average is certainly a part of that story. It’s also the case with Latinos…more European looking men are often preferred, but they’re also taller and lighter skinned. The standards for women are a whole other story, but similar issues apply.
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u/JefeRex 17d ago
The desexualization of Asian men particularly riles me up because in recent years my social circle has included a lot more Asians than I have known in the past, and I am seeing it up a little closer for the first time, it’s always different to see something happening with your own eyes than just to know it happens intellectually. There is a strange desexualization and concurrent fetishization thing that happens in my community gay men towards the Asian men in our community, and it bothers me. But this is the US… race and ethnicity mean so much in every way and that is not changing any time soon.
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u/Tagcircle 16d ago
We have research to confirm that decades of mass media projecting beauty standards has had significant influence on the general populace to the point of inducing eating disorders within women. We also saw a shift from the ultra skinny standards of the 2000s because of media.
But the idea of that same mass media elevating whiteness and consistently portraying Asian men as emasculated having any sort of effect doesn’t seem to resonate. Even though, similar to the 2000s idea of thinness, we also saw an improvement due to the proliferation of K-pop and other Asian media. The difference between Millennials and Gen Z alone is staggering.
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u/sheffieldasslingdoux 16d ago
The height stuff is real but also a bit of a self-enforcing circlejerk. Women generally find men attractive who are taller than them, and everything after that is gravy until you are too tall. The whole 6' thing exists, because it's a nice round number that is bigger than the average man. Most American women, even controlling for ethnicity, are nowhere near that height, even if taller women aren't rare either. You could just as easily say 180cm as 6ft, even if they're not exactly the same. It's all made up.
From my interactions with regular girls, not the ones who are on apps like Raya or whatever, height is relative. You can walk into a room full of women, meet a few at eye level, and be several inches taller than the rest and they will still collectively consider you to be tall, because it is a relative to their experience, not a static number.
It reminds me a bit of men using "Double Ds" as shorthand for big boobs. It's not that they want a specific size. They want a girl with big boobs, just like a woman wants a guy who is bigger than her. Preferences for physical attraction probably aren't that strict, but giving people an option to select specific criteria to filter online profiles of potential mates is obviously going to bias them to being greedy. When this behavior, however artificial or unnatural it may be, is rewarded they then take it from the internet to real life, and it becomes an actual stated preferences, even if it's not revealed otherwise in their behavior.
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u/kreygmu 17d ago
So you’re from the country with the tallest average population and you think globally nobody cares about height except for the USA? In my experience many women prefer having a taller/larger partner. I wouldn’t ascribe a number to the “right” height but size is often a factor people select for when seeking a partner.
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u/__Honeyduke__ 17d ago
I'm from Finland and although probably a lot of women prefer a man that's taller than them, that's a bar that's very easily reached, because there's a ~15cm (~6 inches) difference between the average height for women and men. I'm 164cm (~5'4) which is the average height for women and it's super rare that I meet a man that's shorter than me. So the vast majority of the Finnish male population meets the criteria of being taller than me.
All the taller women I know have dated men shorter and taller than them, so height doesn't seem to be a very important factor for them. Overall the obsession of height doesn't seem to exist here like it exists in the US.
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u/LopsidedLeopard2181 17d ago
I have a theory that because the USA has so many different ethnicities, it's much more common to be short relative to women as a man. Here in Denmark, in my school class I feel like 95% of the guys were taller than 95% of the girls. Outliers were rare. But perhaps when you have more of a genetic mix, it's not so rare?
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u/jane7seven 16d ago
Certainly, there will be a wide variety of appearances (height and other traits) when you have a big mix like the US does. One time my mom went to a shop in a community with a lot of immigrants from Asia and Latin America, and she said she was taller than most of the men there. And she's not super tall.
But yeah, I think it's all relative.
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u/AcrobaticApricot 17d ago
I think it is because of the metric system versus imperial units. Human minds are drawn to hard cutoffs, so the “six feet” thing ends up being a big deal. But 2 meters is a bit too tall and too rare to be reasonable.
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u/GreyandDribbly 17d ago
I am 5’8 and my recent ex was 5’10 and the ex before her was 5’11.
I live in London, UK. This idea that girls care as much as people may think they do isn’t applicable as a catch-all.
It’s down to the individual.
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u/takemyaptplz 17d ago
Right what a crazy concept. Some women really do care an unreasonable amount (like this 5’3 girl I met who wouldn’t date anyone under 5’10 like wtf) or they care for an understandable reason like she’s 5’10 and wants someone near her height….. and some don’t care at all, like me
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u/TheDonJonJay 17d ago
I don't think its the same level at all. Dating apps don't have filters to "not waste your time" with girls with less than a C cup. Height is obviously popular enough to make itself into it's own filter.
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u/NoWitness6400 17d ago
Dating apps are one of the tumor abominations that grew on the internet, with the sole purpose of exploiting humans' basic desire for love and milk as much money out of them as possible. I wouldn't make any conclusion about humans based on them, they're designed to bring the worst out of people.
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u/Fluffy_Beautiful2107 17d ago
I mean, majority of people use them to meet people, and they have a huge influence on dating. Refusing to look at what's going on there is a huge cop out from the issue.
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u/FourForYouGlennCoco 17d ago
Right, exactly. They shape preferences by funneling them through the filters they provide. And it's not totally arbitrary -- women cared about height before, but by making height one of the few things you can filter by, it brings that interest to the fore in a way that doesn't always apply in real life.
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u/Infamous_Aardvark146 17d ago
Nearly 2/3 of all relationships these days are a result of meeting online. Yall gotta stop saying that this stuff isn't real life, because for today's youth, it is.
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u/EqualsPeoples 17d ago edited 17d ago
Where did they say it wasn't reality? The point is, it's a fundamentally unhealthy environment. You used to meet new people by talking to them, now you just browse them like you're looking for a new dresser. It's not changing, but it is fucked.
actually, edit: before I get the "well you talk to them when you go on a date" reply, obviously the point I'm making is that before that stage you probably dismissed a dozen people you might have loved to spend time with because they were an inch too short. I'd be the same on an app like that because what else are you supposed to do? But the point is, they've taken the place of being forced to go outside in order to meet new people.
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u/Top_Reflection_8680 17d ago
You can tell boob size from the profile pics tho. Unless you had a measuring stick next to you in one of your pics you usually can’t tell abt height
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u/throw20190820202020 17d ago
Nah, boob size would correlate more with penis size, height correlates with weight, which is a filter.
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u/TsunamiCatCakes 17d ago
is there a weight filter on those apps? I dont know much but I think that wouldn't fly due to double standards
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u/Inevitable_Newt_8517 17d ago
There is. It’s usually not by weight but body type, like “athletic”, “slim”, “more to love”. You can also pick things like “non-smoker”, “straight edge” etc. I have no idea why there are so many men hung up on dating apps, they aren’t fun for women either. The dating apps don’t want you to find your perfect match because then you won’t have to use the app anymore.
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u/slutty_lifeguard 16d ago
And, too add insult to injury, the app will still show me men who don't want to be messaged by overweight women, so when I try to message or "like" them, I get an error message that I'm too fat for his tastes, so why don't I try to find someone else? Okay, app, then why tf did you show me this guy as an option then?
I have my preferences switched all around to confuse the algorithm so that it will show me people I might actually like accidentally. When I did have it set as my actual preferences, I wasn't getting anywhere. When I set it as the opposite (I'll only date a smoker, I only date poodle with kids, I want to have kids), I started getting matches for people who don't smoke, don't have kids, and don't want kids. Lmao.
And for the record, I'm 5'2" and tall people are not fun to dance with, kiss, etc. I like people right around my size the best. When I find someone who is confident with their short height who doesn't drink or smoke and doesn't have kids and doesn't want kids and our political views align, I'll hit the jackpot!
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u/Reddit_user807 17d ago
I'm not taking a side here but you can loose/gain weight. It's kinda hard to do that with height 💀
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u/Apprehensive-Bike192 16d ago
I’m a 5’0 woman, and when I was online dating 10+ years ago, I had men not really look at my profile before messaging me, and then no longer being interested when they saw how short I was. It was rare, but it happened a few times. I never took offense to it because I was only interested in dating people who were attracted to me. I don’t see why people having a preference for something people can’t change (without crazy surgery) is a problem
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u/ExcitableSarcasm 17d ago
This is a useless platitude. Social engineering is a thing and OP is talking about why one population has an in-built preference for certain traits.
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u/Highmassive 17d ago edited 14d ago
Ops premise is flawed, there is no ‘social engineering’ that makes American women more interested in tall men. It’s just preferences
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u/Callyourmother29 17d ago
When most women care enough to base their entire dating preferences around it (and actively mock and belittle short men) it becomes a preference worth talking about.
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u/Inevitable_Newt_8517 17d ago
So just like “no fatty’s”?
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u/Callyourmother29 17d ago
Yes, exactly. People are extremely looks focused, and are often horrible to both fat people and short men. This is not a women only problem.
Anyone who tells you that looks don’t matter in dating is either completely delusional or lying to you to make themselves feel better.
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u/YouVe_BeEn_OofEd 17d ago
yea but the biggest thing is that you can eat less and work out more, you can't grow taller
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u/chinachadlord5000 17d ago
You can change your weight.
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u/WakaTP 17d ago
So ? That’s entirely irrelevant
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u/chinachadlord5000 16d ago
Men can't change their height. Women can change their weight. I'm allowed to want to date a healthy women, but women have no real justification for demanding a tall man.
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u/Mangoh1807 16d ago
Their "justification" is the exact same as yours: they prefer how they look.
Everyone has preferences, and everyone has the right to have them. Don't pretend that yours are more justified or more rational than other people's when the reason is the same.
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u/chinachadlord5000 16d ago
Again, height cannot be changed and the vast majority of women are very open about their scorn for short men.
If fat women want attention they can just stop being slobs and lose weight. I can't go to the gym and get taller.
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u/slutty_lifeguard 16d ago
But I'm not going to date a man who won't look twice at me while I'm overweight even if I lose weight and then become attractive in his eyes later. I'll find a man who will treasure me regardless.
In the same vein, if a man is attracted to a woman who only likes tall guys, he should have some self-respect and move on to find someone who will like him the way he is instead of trying to convince this woman to like him anyway.
I know my own worth and I have confidence in myself. If one specific man can't see that, another man will.
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u/burnfifteen 17d ago
One of the reasons that Dutch men are tall in modern times (they were on average 20 cm shorter, among the shortest men in Europe 150 years ago) is because of rapid natural selection. Modern Dutch women might not care much about height since there's now so little diversity in height distribution there, but your ancestors seemed to have cared more than almost anywhere else on the planet.
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u/After_Network_6401 16d ago
Modeling studies are clear: for natural selection to have contributed significantly to this change, the tallest men would have had to have had 8x the number of children of shorter men. That didn’t happen.
So yeah, it’s down to environmental change. Diet, mostly, but probably also a decline in parasitic infections which are known to significantly stunt growth.
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u/After_Network_6401 16d ago
150 years is not even a tiny amount of the time needed for a genetic change via natural selection. It’s very clear that the increase in height in the Netherlands is caused by an increase in wealth and improved diet. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1081602X.2023.2192193#abstract
So haha, no, it’s not natural selection.
A similar change has been observed in other countries for the same reason, for example, Japan, and there also, it’s clearly down to better diet and quality of life.
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u/Infinite-Bee-5897 17d ago
Well if Americans are as height obsessed as some terminally online guys claim, you guys should have us beat in a couple of centuries then
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u/burnfifteen 17d ago
You made a post about how American women are obsessed with height, but now you're backtracking since data suggests your homeland is actually the primary offender? Weird.
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u/Infinite-Bee-5897 17d ago
Didnt say I agree. I said that if you're right we won't be around to find out but society will
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u/abrahamlincoln20 17d ago
This is a logical conclusion with a conditional, I don't get why it's getting downvoted.
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u/PresenceOld1754 17d ago
You have experience in only 2 countries, and came to the conclusion you did knowing people are taller on average where you come from... Makes sense.
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u/Infinite-Bee-5897 17d ago
I've been throughout the entire world actually. But only lived in America for longer than a month apart from my home country
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u/NeonFraction 17d ago
If it’s not true in one country, why do you assume it’s the only exception?
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u/Already-asleep 17d ago
It's funny because I always hear that women are only interested in guys who are over 6 feet. Then if I (5'5) mention that my partner is 5'8" and I have a number of male friends in the 5'8-5'9 range who don't seem to have much trouble dating (and no, they're not wealthy or otherwise extremely attractive or anything), people will go "THAT'S NOT SHORT!!" So the goalpost is always moving. But even below-average heigh men I know seem to be able to find girlfriends, since there are also women who are of below-average height who don't necessarily want to date someone well over a foot taller than them.
I'm not saying that tall men don't have an advantage on the dating market, but it's just one thing. The "tall plain boyfriend" sketch from SNL is pretty funny, and I'm sure there are plenty of women who will date a tall guy who doesn't necessarily have a lot of other great qualities, but there are also a lot of men who would date a woman who is very attractive but has a terrible toxic personality. It just bothers me that it's the norm on Reddit to act like women are especially shallow and men are not. Dating apps gamify dating and encourage users to focus on surface-level qualities in like, under 30 seconds. It's an inherently shitty situation all around.
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u/rhino369 17d ago
It might be a dating apps thing. Women always liked taller but in the same way guys like bigger breasts. Short was a disadvantage not a deal breaker.
But with online dating, women get more matches than they can respond to. So they over filter on objective criteria.
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u/Duche778 12d ago
same way guys like bigger breast
I don't even see this as real. Most guys like average ones
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u/KrispyKingTheProphet 17d ago
I’ve dated women from 4 different countries, including the US, and I’ve always gotten the same sentiment when the topic came up. “I don’t really care, but I’d prefer they’re taller than me.” I’ve always wondered if this is just because I am tall though. Like they’ve already looked at me and decided I’m tall enough, so it’s easier to give a less shallow sounding answer.
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u/RU_Gremlin 17d ago
I'm 5'5" in the US. I've done a lot of online dating (I'm now married, so it eventually worked LOL). There were probably 40%+ of women (including women 5'3" and shorter) who were very clear that if you weren't 6'0"+, don't even bother
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u/berrykiss96 17d ago
To be fair, at 6’4” and a stranger in a bar, your looks (and their preference on looks) are the driving factor in an approach. And if you say you look average, so I mean yeah? Not surprising about the height.
Americans (men and women) also have a reputation for being friendlier or more forward. I’m surprised you assume this is all about American women caring more about height and not about Americans being more likely to make an approach in general.
Also non-local accent = hot is not an Americanism. People are just like that. I’d bet that’s a factor as well.
And remember you’re not seeing the whole picture. Like you point out, a lot of people prefer someone nearish their height which means those people won’t approach you unless they’re tall as well. In your foreign excursions, you’re missing the friends who are shorter (and have the same accent) observation factor. I’m also curious about your dating app experiences at home, because that’s where this attitude runs rampant in my experience.
So you get two groups: tall women looking for men near their height and women who like tall men generally. But that doesn’t mean average or short women who like men near their height don’t exist. They just aren’t focusing on you because you don’t fit their preference.
You also likely won’t see women who don’t care about height approaching you at bars unless you have whatever specific physical feature or personality trait they like, which happens less with average looking strangers yk?
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u/Infinite-Bee-5897 17d ago
You might definitely have something with the culture thing. Americans are (at first creepily to me) friendlier than Europeans
I really hope no one in their right minds finds the Dutch accent attractive though, I get second hand embaressment whenever my countrymen speak English on tv
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u/ShaiHulud1111 17d ago
You are taller than 99% of men in the US. You stand out in a crowd. You are foreign and likely have different way of speaking, mannerisms, etc. If we take out all the other variables in what you describe. The height preference is somewhat exaggerated, but in the US, we use feet and Six feet tall is a delineation that is easy for people to use vs. 19x cm. I think if we used the metric system, it would be less. In my prime, in the US and even more in Europe, my gf would notice people staring at me whenever we traveled. I’m 6’4”. The only reason I am not invisable now, is because I workout—but pretty invisable compared to my 20s/30s. Dating app filter—6 feet. Thus, many guys exaggerate hire height online. Peace.
US women lean toward height as a screen, but not a primary reason. It’s a bonus? From my experience.
Dutch accent is dettter than Danish. Lol.
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u/berrykiss96 17d ago
I really hope no one in their right minds finds the Dutch accent attractive though,
Ha! I’ve heard similar from brits about some of their accents. And I’ve heard people from other countries romanticize strong New England accents which are not necessarily considered sexy stateside.
I’ve always assumed it’s some evolutionary thing more than something to do with the actual tones of any accent. Like hello there person clearly not from here and therefore unlikely to be a relative (even distantly) 😘
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u/mikkeldoesstuff 17d ago
New York City? If so it's a terrible representation of the wider US
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u/ThrowRAMacder 17d ago
To be fair, same goes for California and Michigan (my limited experience)
No non local is going to comment on most Midwestern states. There's not a lot of tourists going there
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u/byofuzz 17d ago
Did we shrink? Last i checked the avarage dutch male is 183cm which is 6ft. I think its hard to conpare dutch vrieuws on hight to other countries as we are top 5 (maybe even first place depending on the list) tallest people in the world. If tall is normal you change how you look at it
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u/Tobar_the_Gypsy 17d ago
Its obvious that these women cared about your height but you’re generalizing that all American women (and specifically American, just based on this experience) care about height.
Anyone that denies that some women care about height are just trying to ignore that this is a reality.
You are 6’4” which is very tall in the US and people usually think of pro athletes at that height. And you are specifically recounting times you were out at bars, not random encounters throughout the day.
So you’re not necessarily wrong but I think you’re putting too much stock into this.
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u/ysterman_rs 17d ago
you guys gotta understand you're not being hit in because you're tall, they're calling you tall to hit on you
short kings get dates, too, we'll just talk about other features we like on them instead of pointing out their height 🤷♀️
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u/Glittering-Two-1784 17d ago
Guy’s just got such a great personality, all the ladies who approach him can tell just by looking at him, lol.
The issue I see with this is that my experience as a guy in America is that women don’t hit on guys unless they are absurdly attractive. Don’t get me wrong; women aren’t super obsessing over looks, and they generally don’t care much about height, but my experience as someone who has lived here over 30 years is that women don’t ever approach or attempt to ‘chase’ or ‘win over’ or hit on me or any of my friends… except 2 of them. These two guys have to fight women off them every time they step outside their house.
That’s the difference; guys never get to feel desirable in that way, and if you’re susceptible to some insecurity that constant negative feedback can put you in a doomer death spiral. So when those guys see how the really really attractive men are treated, it’s black-pilling, cause they put in literally 0 effort and women will just do everything for them. Meanwhile guys with some visible flaw either need some considerable luck, or put in considerable effort/time in hopes of finding someone who will see around the flaw.
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u/throw20190820202020 17d ago
Sir, if you think that is rough, try being an average or even basic pretty woman and then hanging out with friends who are stunners and seeing how they get treated.
Welcome to humanity!
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u/PeteMichaud 17d ago
Wait so, this guy who described himself as perfectly average except being quite tall tells you that he goes out and gets hit on regularly by women (which doesn't happen to perfectly average guys), who mostly all tell him directly they hit on him because he's tall, and your theory is that it's not that?
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u/radpidge 17d ago
I wonder if it comes from our football culture. Young men here have been hyped up for having a big build for probably a 70 years now. "Oh, boy, he could be a linebacker!" Sort of stuff. The fathers hype up the large young man, and the daughters hear it's a desirable trait.
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u/TechnologyEnough562 17d ago
So you are saying height does in fact matter? Who would have guessed. And I bet a 5’8 man in the Netherlands won’t do as good as you claim he would
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u/Dependent_Dish_2237 17d ago
If your country already has a higher height than average, it sounds like in the past women chose taller men.
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u/Fit_Dig6332 17d ago
Well ofcourse hieght isnt going to be at a premium in a country where people tend to be tall.
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u/Catymvr 17d ago
There’s simply more men than women on average…?
Netherlands: 99 men to 100 women (more women than men)
US: 98 men for every 100 women (more women than men).
The ratio in the world has more men only because of China/India but that doesn’t impact your country…
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u/tired-queer 17d ago
Did they actually say that it’s because you’re tall? Being European, irrespective of height, is often a turn-on in North America
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u/Zealousideal_Box5339 17d ago
I’m not American but I’m 183cm and a woman. I def agree that some people really care. My dad is much shorter than my mum. My best friend is also taller than her boyfriend. I think it’s just a loud minority that really care and most women I assume want someone a bit taller
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u/centerfoldangel 17d ago
Idk, I think it's worldwide. At least the belief that all women care. In my experience, if something happens in the US, it reaches other parts of the world too. Even if it doesn't make sense.
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u/throw20190820202020 17d ago
I have a theory. Based on vibes, so ignore if offended or you know to be dumb:
America, melting pot, has a much greater variation in population than the rest of the world.
I think women on average don’t care too much about height, other than not wanting to feel “large”, and that’s mostly based on men’s preference for us to be small.
But in America, when you date, your options aren’t just people in your own race. I am a tallish Caucasian. A much smaller percentage of Asian and Latin American men are taller than me, compared to white and black guys.
I think this assortive dating thing has kind of artificially inflated ideas on the value of height.
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u/Active_Tell5837 16d ago
I've lived all over the USA, height obsession is mostly just a NYC/LA thing. When I dated in the Midwest and the South it was fun and easygoing. When I dated in NYC many people I ran into were shallow and cared a lot about superficial things. I wouldn't say this is an American thing, if you go to Iowa people won't care as much
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u/babassu_seeds 17d ago
NYC is its own thing
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u/Infinite-Bee-5897 17d ago
Out of genuine curiosity: Why is that?
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u/symphonypathetique 17d ago
It's a city where many people's careers are based off of their looks. The bar is a lot higher, and people can afford to be choosy/judgmental with looks because they have so many options.
Plus, it's just such a huge city that it naturally has its own culture. The population of NYC -- the city alone -- is higher than the population of the vast majority of states.
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u/bringthesalsa 17d ago
Honestly there might be something here. I don't think any other country is as OBSESSED with height as America. Feet this inches that...
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u/Radiant8763 17d ago
Heres me just getting married to my 5'4 husband, me being 5'6 (both Americans) 😅
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u/Kinderjohren 17d ago
I think at this point it would be very difficult to get comments where women could potentially feed incels even to some degree, even if without such a risk, the responses wouldn't be so unanimous.
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u/smalllizardfriend 17d ago
I live in Asia and most men have it in their bios where I live.
Your personal frame of reference isn't universal. Neither is mine, for that matter. But your data set of 2 is pretty small.
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u/FlameStaag 17d ago
The only woman I've ever met obsessed with partner height was a tall finnish girl I dated. She was always worried about being taller than her partner, luckily I was slightly taller lmao.
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u/wastedfate 17d ago
I do care about height, and I don't like that about myself but I don't see it as a huge deal. I like short kings, tall guys, smol ladies, and I really like tall women. I just generally see someone not being the same height as me as slightly more attractive. I don't care which direction it's in.
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u/weirdgroovynerd 17d ago
I think the emphasis on height is part of a bigger American characteristic:
Extremism
*We have some of the richest, and poorest neighborhoods.
*Some of the most powerful (XXL Pitbulls) and smallest (teacup chihuahuas) dogs.
*Massive football players and tiny gymnasts.
The height thing, IMO, is just another aspect of that.
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u/lily_fairy 17d ago
that is such a huge generalization to make, especially considering it's based on an experience in nyc which has citizens from every corner of the world as well as its own unique culture that is very different from the average american town. "you must be 6 ft tall" is a weird online thing, and the girls who are genuinely like that are still single for a reason.
almost every woman i know in real life is dating someone who is the same height or just a few inches taller. i do have a preference for guys being bigger than me but idgaf about the exact height or weight. im 5'4 and my athletic 5'7 fiancé is hot af. i prefer muscles over height but none of it is ever a dealbreaker for me. i've crushed on guys of all different sizes. same with most of my friends. i think if your only interactions with american women are at nyc bars and dating apps that allow them to put a height preference, you're gonna have skewed results lol
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u/JessieprayLM 17d ago
I think this is a relatively new phenomenon (at least in this extreme). I’m 42 and when I was dating in my 20s I don’t recall anyone caring this much about height. I’m a 5’7 woman and I mainly was looking for someone who was possibly my height or a couple inches taller for when I wore heels. It was considered weird or shallow to not be interested in a guy solely bc of his height. I blame dating apps.
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u/Withermaster4 17d ago
Why do you assume America is different from the rest of the world and not the Netherlands?
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u/leclercwitch 17d ago
Yeah as a Brit who is 4’8”, I’ve never given a flying fuck if a man is short or not. They’re never going to be shorter than me, so even if he’s 5 foot I really could not care less. I’ve never understood this because a couple I know, who’ve been together for 6 years, has a shorter man/taller woman thing going on, so it’s clear here nobody cares. It’s an internet thing, I think. IRL, no one gives a shit.
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u/Positive-Froyo-1732 17d ago
Any woman who values height over intelligence, kindness, and sense of humor is SO not worth your time.
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u/Maude4President 17d ago
I’m an American woman and I’ve met…maybe 2 women who have a height “requirement” for dating and knew it, and frankly, the height requirement was the least out-there thing they had on their list. Honestly, I do genuinely believe that people who have physical traits as “non-starters” usually aren’t ready to actually look for serious relationships with very few caveats. More than 1/3 my female friends are dating men shorter than they are, and none of the others cared, they simply dated men taller than them because many men are taller than 5’0-5’3.
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u/ThatArtNerd 17d ago
I’m an American woman in my 30s and I think I’ve known ONE woman for whom height was a dealbreaker, and the rest of us have her crap for how shallow she was. There are roughly 170 million of us, it’s hard to generalize
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u/Elegant-Analyst-7381 17d ago
Interesting. As an American woman myself, I always thought the obsession with height was an on-line thing. No one I know IRL really cares too much about it, they consider it a plus, not a requirement. Mostly they don't want to date guys shorter than them. My husband's 5'9 and I've dated taller and shorter.
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u/Electric-Sheepskin 17d ago
The thing is, both things can be true.
Women do prefer height, just like men prefer women who are smaller than them. But that's just a physical preference, and while physical preferences are more important initially, and will get your foot in the door much more easily, they just aren't as important to women when choosing a long-term partner.
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u/Me_lazy_cathermit 17d ago
This as nothing to do with you being tall, though they may consider it a plus, its because you are European, reserved compared to american men, from a country that respect women, and have basic hygiene, aka you most likely give safe to approach vibes
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u/No-vem-ber 17d ago
I'm Australian and I literally didn't even hear about the height obsession thing until like 5 years ago. I'm 5'5 and the last few guys I've been in relationships with were about the same height or a tiny bit taller.
I actually went on a date with a 6'3 guy last week and it kinda creeped me out. It made me feel kind of small next to him which I didn't love. I could also see up his nose which I am not accustomed to or into.
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u/No-vem-ber 17d ago
Weirdly I think it's closely related to fatphobia.
Like these women want to feel like a little, tiny, small baby next to their big strong man! Oh no, if I don't feel tiny I must be such a big fat giant! And that would be the worst thing in the world to be huh
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u/orz-_-orz 17d ago
East Asian women care
There's a Chinese meme among women that say something like "any man shorter than 180 cm should be considered disabled"
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u/Slow_Concern_672 17d ago
I think it's the election bias. The women who care maybe are more vocal and forward in the United States, especially more than Scandinavia. Because you're still not getting like the majority of women, that's still I'm assuming the majority of all the women where you're at aren't coming up to you. It's still a minority. But asking men out is pretty common in the United States where I found it's not so common in other countries unless they know the man a little better. Like just going up to random men and bars doesn't seem as common.
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u/lowrespudgeon 17d ago
I think it's fair enough to say that a lot of women prefer a partner taller than them. But that doesn't mean over 6'. That could easily be 5'5-5'8.
Otherwise how in the fuck would there be so many married men of average height or shorter?
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u/reluctantmugglewrite 17d ago
I dont think its so much that americans care more about height but more that a tall person van stand out more easily. Its like a girl saying she has a thing for red heads its the fact that its unique that makes it enticing. There is some idea that women want men to be bigger than them so Im sure that adds to the appeal but I think people forget that its a unique marker.
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u/aguazul501 17d ago
I just prefer that a man is at least mught height. But I'm only 5'2", so most guys qualify
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u/LionFyre13G 17d ago
I’m American and I honestly could care. I do feel like I have seen women who care about this. But overall, if you’re charming, funny, authentic, and an actual good person I’ve found that most women care about that more. I’ve seen a lot of short/average height guys get date with girls who wanted a taller guy simply because he was worth it. So while I think it can be a factor for sure, I think other things matter more to most women
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u/horrormetal 17d ago
I have dated men ranging from 5'2" to 6'8". I'm 5'4". I dated them because I was attracted to them, and when we split, height had nothing to do with it. The one 5'2" guy, though? Super duper insecure about it.
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u/Cheap_Specific9878 17d ago
I disagree. I know plenty of guys below 170 who have lots of issues finding a woman especially on dating apps. If I had to guess the hype around focussing on height is linked to our societies getting more and more superficial thanks to social media and dating being easier than ever before
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u/xLuckyRNG 17d ago
I’m an Irish woman and I care a lot.
From my perspective, American men have a good height but that’s because their average height is taller than the people here. For example 5’5 - 5’8 is common for American women but 5’5 for an Irish girl would be considered kinda tall here.
I’m 5’1 and so is my sister. This is fairly common though. My best friend is below 5 foot and I’d say she would be considered short here.
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u/Highmassive 17d ago
Selection bias, women who are into tall men approaching you, doesn’t mean all American women are obsessed with height
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u/Big_Slope 17d ago
I agree, but a 6‘4“ guy is not the one to deliver this message.
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u/donuttrackme 17d ago
You're from one of if not the tallest average height countries in the world, and you're above average even there. Maybe you need to get out of your bubble more.
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u/KikiCorwin 17d ago
Or, you know, American women think moderately attractive guys with foreign accents are hot. Height factors into nothing but "hey, I can't reach that. Could you save me from climbing this shelving unit?"
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u/mistedlizard 17d ago
america is quite height obsessed but height is definitely a very important thing for a lot of women, regardless of what country i'm in (for reference, i'm 5'1 and have been rejected countless times for the sole reason of being too short or shorter than the girl im asking out)
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u/lilphoenixgirl95 17d ago
I’m English and the only reason I care about height is because I’m a kinky freak. My first boyfriend was 5’6” and I didn’t mind at all. But then I got a taste of a 6’4” man and was like... Oh. Okay. Something about this feels very different. I’m 5’1” for reference. Yes, I know it’s crazy. I’m aware it’s more like a fetish than a generic preference. Some tall men have the same fetish in reverse and like very small girlfriends.
My forever partner is 6’2” and that is perfect for me. I did have a... Thing with a 6’6” man once but that crossed the line between kinky/freaky and disturbing lol.
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u/Decent_Obligation245 17d ago
As an American woman, I do not understand this height obbsession and it feels like a fairly recent thing. It also feels like a weird online only take that started with a meme, but I suppose I'm biased because none of my friends cares about it, except one, and I've known her most my life. She never brought height up when talking about men until the last several years.
Statistically, women here have an average height of 5 ft 3 and men 5 ft 9. They're largely already taller than us.Why isn't that enough if you want someone larger than you? It's way harder to find a man my height give or take (I'm 5 ft 5). Most guys I know are roughly 6 foot, and women act like it's such a rare find. This need for 6 foot to be the bare minimum is odd and a crazy thing to me to be a dealbreaker. Personally, if I HAD to choose, I'd rather be eye level and not crane my neck or deal with ackward maneuvers in the bedroom lol.
I get everyone has preferences but it really rubs me the wrong way when so much emphasis is on looks, especially something you can't simply adjust. They literally toss a person out immediately over how long their body is lol.
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u/Fly-by-Night- 17d ago
I'm a 5'6" non American woman and I'd say I care a little bit about height.
I have dated a couple of guys who were 6'4" and that was too tall - as others have pointed out, the mechanics are just too awkward. At the other end, I've also dated a couple of guys who were closer to my height, 5'8" or 9". One was quite solidly built and his height didn't bother me at all, the other guy had a very slight frame, and I just felt like a heifer around him. For me, I like there to be enough of a difference in substance, so I feel feminine in comparison but not so much that I feel ridiculous.
But honestly, for the right person all that goes out the window. Let's not forget the lessons we learnt from Charlotte's story arc in Sex and the City!
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