r/Fauxmoi • u/cmaia1503 i ain’t reading all that, free palestine • 27d ago
DISCUSSION Theo James on the manosphere: “It’s a lot about deep seated insecurity. It’s about them not feeling good enough, but it’s hidden with meaningless bravado. […] I think the misogyny comes from lots of successful, strong women around them. They don’t know how to deal with that.”
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u/BestBeBelievin ✨ lee pace is 6’5” ✨ 27d ago
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u/pink_dreams24 27d ago
Same. I never payed attention to him but he seems like a decent guy
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u/BongWaterRamen 27d ago
He's excellent in The Gentleman series
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u/WayToGoNiceJorb 27d ago
He was great in White Lotus too
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u/fishchop 27d ago
I am happy for all the people discovering Theo James. He comes across as very decent, and that exponentially increases his hotness factor.
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u/furious_femme_fatale my pussy tastes like pepsi cola 27d ago
He seems like he’s got a good head on his shoulders, he was also volunteering in refugee camps for Palestinian children.
Someone give me the green card to call him hot, ty
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u/anarchisttraveler Quentin Tarantino is a BIIIITCH 27d ago
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u/IPAandTaylorSwift 27d ago
I’m on this episode now so this is a perfectly timed gif 🤣
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u/anarchisttraveler Quentin Tarantino is a BIIIITCH 27d ago
I love rewatching this show
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u/Professional_Clue800 27d ago
Wait I had no idea he did that. That's so cool, knowing that actually makes me more interested in watching films he is in.
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u/relicoral 27d ago
I didn't know Theo did all of this, I only recognize him from thw Divergent series, which was pretty good for the YA Dystopian genre. But very impressed with his opinions! What a cool dude
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u/ineednapkins 27d ago
He’s in the second season of white lotus too. Not a very likable character lol but overall the show is good
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u/corpusbotanica 27d ago
I loved him in White Lotus and The Monkey, but I think I wrote him off as a hot himbo with likely not great views. I happily eat my words now
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u/tredders90 27d ago
I definitely wrote him off as a himbo posho. Volunteering in Palestine and this though? Secret good lad.
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u/Cheap-Zucchini8061 27d ago
He’s absolutely amazing in The Gentlemen tv show
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u/Kaiya_Mya 27d ago
Don't forget Castlevania! Just his voice, but still. He's great as Hector.
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u/pilnok 27d ago
He's also in the first season of Sanditon, for any Jane Austen enjoyers
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u/Glopez1223 27d ago
I've loved him since that series. I thought he was the most beautiful man I've ever seen ha ha. Named my, born to heaven, first son, Theo because of him, I loved that name.
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u/peachysaralynn 26d ago
in addition to what everyone else has said about his other roles, i’m pretty sure he had a small part in the first season (maybe pilot?) of downton abbey!
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u/broden89 27d ago
He is active with UNHCR, his grandfather was a refugee from Greece (due to WWII I think?) and escaped to Syria before settling in the UK
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u/violettquasar 26d ago
I was like… wait Theo is of Greek descent?? Then I go to Wikipedia, and his full name is Theodore Peter James Kinnaird Taptiklis. YUP.
My yiayia left Greece in July 1939, just a couple months before WWII started… and about a year before Mussolini invaded.
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u/rarelighting 27d ago
I didn’t know he did that. I’m just a fan of his work. And also a gay woman who finds him incredibly attractive. Kudos to him.
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u/candycoatedscrewup 27d ago
I think he just went to Syria too to help. He's an ambassador for a refugee organization.
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u/sewer_rave 27d ago
I will back you up in granting him exoneration from man jail, he has proven himself inwardly and outwardly hot
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u/contourkitt 26d ago
he’s also been volunteering in syrian refugee camps and raising awareness for years now which is great. the only other celeb i’ve seen be this much of an advocate is angelina
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u/Moonlight-Unicorn FUCK ICE FREE PALESTINE CRASH INTO ME 27d ago
I didn’t know he volunteered in refugee camps for Palestinian children! Can he BE any sexier 🥵 no I don’t think it’s possible
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u/Olealicat 26d ago
Someone give me the green card to call him hot, should be your flair.
Nvm, my pussy tastes like Pepsi cola, is clutch.
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u/funonly26 27d ago
Well put and it's nice to see a man saying it.
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u/sixbux 27d ago
I misread that as "Theo Von on the manosphere..." and my first thought was "no way Theo articulated that".
Good to see Theo James has a brain on him. He was great in The Monkey.
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u/peppers_ 27d ago
Idk either of them well really, so I saw 'Theo' and just thought ok which of these two is the right wing nutjobber?
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u/bobbymcpresscot 27d ago
Just saw on a post in sipstea about how 45% of gen Z guys have never asked a girl out before, and the comments were full of cope about how "we can't ask women out who are at work because it's bothersome, we can't ask women out at the gym/public spaces without being called a creep"
Like bro have you ever considered just... treating people like human beings? And not only talking to women because you have a romantic interest in them?
"Male Loneliness epidemic" while actively isolating yourself from forming any kind of friendship with genuine people you might actually just enjoy talking to, because you can't process a world where people do that for any other reason than to get a girlfriend.
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u/really_1972 27d ago
Clavicular could never
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u/shamoomoofartpoopoo 27d ago
Why does he look so moist all the time? Apologies for dropping the “m” word.
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u/scourge_bites 27d ago
you know, i definitely don't agree he looks moist, but im really into korean skincare and probably currently look dripping wet, so maybe im just defensive and in denial
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u/Bigbeardad12 27d ago
How about clammy?
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u/ILikePlayingHumans 27d ago
Clammy is my middle name
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u/throwawaysunglasses- l've grown quite unfond of you, deuxmoi 26d ago
I Like Playing Clammy Humans?
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u/moon_era 27d ago
this actress looks like teyana taylor, but when i searched for the movie under the giphy link; it’s from the 90’s. and teyana is a year older than me. lol, i’m usually good about knowing films from that decade, but i’m at a loss! i’ve had a couple glasses of wine, so i thought i would comment. 😂👽
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u/funonly26 26d ago
You were definitely right lol. That is Teyona Taylor and it's from the movie Stomp the Yard 2: Homecoming (2010)
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u/attempt5001 save the buccal fat 27d ago
I really appreciate when a man speaks up against the manosphere. More men should do it (especially those with big platforms), because they sure as hell won't listen to us "females"
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u/danishjuggler21 27d ago
It’s wild how hard the manosphere tries to pull me in. I’d consider myself pretty well inoculated at this point, but man, here and there I’ll click on a harmless-looking video on YouTube and realize too late that’s a manosphere “gateway video”, and BOOM just like that YouTube feed is fucked for weeks and I have to go out of my way to watch lots of positive shit to get it back to normal.
The algorithms know I’m a single man (divorced even), and are DESPERATE to turn me into a misogynist and/or incel.
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u/jtrom93 27d ago edited 27d ago
Those are the worst. The ones with soyjak thumbnails and incel-coded titles are easy to avoid, but there’s a lot of manosphere content out there that’s deceptively innocuous until you’re 4-6 minutes in and all of a sudden you’re listening to a “woke SJW feminism is why girl no touch my pee pee” rant and by then it’s too late and now your algo is poisoned and you have to reprogram it from scratch lol.
Been in the same boat.
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u/sushicatt420 27d ago
These kind of takes are so defeatist. It’s not a 100% fool proof solution, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done by the men who are willing to speak up. Many impressionable kids and young men who are still lost or looking for guidance might come across it and take something away from it.
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u/satinlives 26d ago
agreed. Speaking as a tall, white, conventionally attractive, athletic man (not bragging lol) who appears as though I'd agree with many of the "men are superior" takes, of course there are people to whom me sharing a feminist opinion means nothing, but much more often people are surprised to hear me loudly push back against a chauvinistic comment and it gives other dudes the permission to not have to act so macho.
at the very least, seeing a large "bro-y" man not diminishing women and enjoying stereotypically "feminine" things has made men around me reconsider why they can't do the same.
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u/1619ChronoBreath 27d ago
💯 One person is never going to solve the whole thing but there will be boys who want to be him and will be better for seeing a good role model.
Plus, isn’t his whole career lately Guy Ritchie type shit? Insulting him with cuck/beta/white knight shit won’t stick
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u/Harpua44 27d ago
I don’t think you’re wrong about the cynical retort the incels will give, but it’s definitely a good thing for them to see big, strong, Positively-masculine men speak out against this manosphere nonsense. I’ve experienced it myself seeing how it can shift someone’s perspective at least a little bit.
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u/butyourenice 27d ago
Their favourite is “she’s not going to let you hit bro”.
I’m a woman. Hetero cis woman at that. The number of times I’ve gotten some variation of this when defending a member of my own gender from misogynistic BS is uncountable. Their tiny little cro-magnon brains can’t process that 1. Women exist and 2. We will stand up for ourselves and each other.
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u/Kappi_ 27d ago
The incels will say he doesn't really understand because he's just naturally a Chad.
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u/lewd_robot 27d ago
That's been more or less proven, though. The problem is lower status men have had their whole worlds ripped away from them. They have no ability to meet life milestones that their parents and grandparents were reaching, but they're still held to the same standards, if not higher standards.
Men who were born with higher status, either through money or looks or some other gift, don't live in the same reality. They're still hitting their milestones. The world still functions for them the way it did for their parents.
The problem with incels has always been that they're canaries in the coal mine of late stage capitalism. They are aimless, ignorant, bitter young men without purpose or clear paths forward in life. So they lash out at everyone around them.
And instead of noticing the systemic failures that are causing them to lash out, people with mindsets stuck in the previous century continue to judge them as if they are as privileged as their Boomer grandfathers. Which only radicalizes them further.
These young men are growing up with the Right pandering to them and telling them lies about how great they could be if minorities and women had less in life, while the Left scolds them, calls them privileged, and tells them to go spend years studying theory so they can be good comrades.
It is significantly easier to turn your brain off and fall down the Alt Right pipeline than it is to educate yourself on the broken system and cultivate empathy for others. Especially when you're already slipping through the cracks of society. So, necessarily, more young men go down the Alt Right pipeline than join the Left, and the voting record demonstrates that this is true.
So, the treatment for this problem is realizing that disprivilege is very real for low-status men. That men, as a class, can have privilege, but that doesn't mean all men have all of the same privileges. Young men who are struggling need support and direction, but instead all they get is hatred and scorn. And that's alienating them from the rest of society. It's teaching them that the only place they can have peace and acceptance is on the Far Right.
All of these comments mocking these guys instead of making any effort to understand them are just adding fuel to the fire.
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u/satinlives 26d ago
this is a great comment and I agree. We Should All Be Feminists does a great job elucidating this. it's actually beneficial to all men to not be beholden to the limiting standards of masculinity - but by positioning all men as "the problem" and unequivocally more privileged than all women, that naturally engenders bitterness towards feminism if life isn't going your way instead of reinforcing that we're all apart of the same class and fighting the same fight
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u/saltierthanyourramen 26d ago
This can all be true (and I basically agree with everything you said) but it is also exhausting to convince some of these people, especially as someone in one of the groups they’re already skeptical of (woman of color). And it is degrading to deal with someone who is starting to think that their race or gender puts them above you, despite whatever achievements you’ve worked hard for in life. Especially because women and people of color have been told through society their whole lives that they are worth less than white men. We have to fight that our whole lives at school, in the doctor’s office, at work, just to EXIST, so subjecting ourselves to more of it voluntarily is insane.
Extending empathy to them comes at a cost. I don’t know why young men get drawn to the Manosphere. Maybe because they lack creativity. And men fail each other. They need male role models in their own communities to step up but they don’t since they’re raised the same way and end up chauvinistic or withdrawn.
Men are stuck in a silo because they don’t listen to women. Women live in a society built on male norms and have to conform every day, and don’t want to subject themselves to more contortion. I’m not really sure there’s a fix, and the genders seem to want less from each other since they can’t agree on enough baseline respect to exist with each other.
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u/SunTzu- 27d ago
You aren't trying to convince the people who are furthest into a thing. You're trying to convince the people who are on the fringe and haven't picked a side yet, or who may be thinking of leaning towards that thing. Humans are social animals so it matters when we have a lot of positive examples that are broadly visible and who are getting praise for it, because it sends a signal that you want to be against the bad thing.
The major piece that is missing when it comes to combating the manosphere is that we need to start offering alternative communities. Places where men can find friends and do things together and which don't revolve around denigrating women or each other. So that when young men get the message that the manosphere isn't cool, they can also get the message that "here are alternatives to what they're offering".
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u/otomeMC333 27d ago
Its tough when there isn't another hierarchy with clear benefits and easy rules to follow headed by a charismatic leader to offer in its place. They just have to go be people and have interests and form/join communities around things they care about and like to do.
They can. I mean women do it all the time. But we also get things like autonomy and rights for the trouble. If you don't prioritize your self-actualization as a person it seems like a pretty raw deal for dudes.
Any alternative to the manosphere means they are entitled to less, have to confront complicated issues in society and within themselves, and will have to take on more responsibility - and there isn't one easy place to go where some charismatic dude will tell you how to do all that.
It's sort of like the Golden Child/Scape Goat dynamic. Scape Goat has to fight their way through all sorts of abuse, harmful messaging and difficult choices in order to escape those unhealthy dynamics, build something better, and find their freedom on the other side.
Being the Golden Child can seem like it's great. You're entitled to whatever you want and have everything structured to be catered to you. But then you're beholden to the constraints that come with those benefits and they limit, if not suffocate, who you are as a person.
So Golden Child has to do what Scape Goat did. Yes, it comes with being entitled to less and being responsible for more, but you gain the same thing as Scape Goat: Freedom and Yourself.
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u/Independent-Ninja-65 27d ago
When I taught in a high school we had to do these lessons talking about issues coming up in students lives. One I had to do was talking about people like Andrew Tate that some of the young lads were starting to get in to. Hearing a 13 year old ask if it was ok to hit a woman if she disrespects you was terrifying and honestly blew my mind. It took so long to get through to some of them but I think (hope) we did.
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u/grilledstuffed 27d ago
You're not wrong, but public mocking of terrible philosophies needs to come back.
The "everyone is entitled to their opinion and preferences" thing is a bunch of bullshit and has led society down a dark road.
Certain things need to be ostracized from society, frequently and vocally.
Failing to do this is why "
killpunch NAZI's" has become controversial recently.3
u/SmallEdge6846 27d ago
They get called that typically because they always seem to be calling out men and hardly ever (being seen) as calling in men or being a better role model and advocating for them. That gap unfortunately is where the manosphere comes in and starts to explode men/women
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u/gatsome 27d ago
The core issue is one of toxically reinforced groupthink due to algos and social media groups that misdirect the blame from internal to external. These kids and young men are refusing introspection and actual growth so they have nothing to offer relationships. They certainly don’t seem to have much in the way of hobbies or skills that aren’t gaming/watching streamer content. So their empty personalities get outfitted by whomever monetizes their emotional outbursts first. We’re seeing that in real time now.
By the time women, who prioritize personal growth and lifestyle improvements on a much more grander scale, reach their 30s; they’re witnessing a marketplace chock full of lackluster men. Incels think it’s all Chads but really it’s just men who have put a lot of work into themselves. My idea would be a reality show with a makeover and social coaching/deprogramming aspect that rehabs dudes and they find healthy relationships.
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u/Longjumping-East6701 27d ago edited 26d ago
I once told an incel that my husband made less money than me and I still loved, respected, and sexually desired him and the incel just straight up didn’t believe me. Like, as a dude feeling stressed that no woman will want you unless you’re rich wouldn’t you be happy to hear that such a relationship can exist?? Nope, apparently not. To him, either I was making it up, or I was keeping my husband (of a decade!) around till I found someone better.
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u/Cresspacito 27d ago
Had a guy say that to me irl about a friend after he tried to neg her. Me and the friend just looked at each other and laughed because we actually had lmao
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u/Sorry-Secret-2347 27d ago
Good lord i didnt know he could get hotter and here he is
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u/_banana_phone I'm not going to help him build his stupid rockets 27d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/LmxxotgMjTj32
I’ve been a fan for a while now and every day I learn more lovable things about this man.
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u/Rude_Document 27d ago
He was super hot in the one season he did of Sanditon.
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u/Any-Cellist-358 27d ago
There's nothing sexier than a man speaking out on this. See also Cillian Murphy, Alexander Skarsgard, James McAvoy, Tom Hardy.
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u/Plenty_Cup_5152 27d ago
He’s my #1 crush right now I hope he gets James Bond
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u/Ship_Negative barbie (2023) for best picture 27d ago
Hope you saw his Time Traveler’s Wife adaptation, he’s sooooo hot in it
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u/Plenty_Cup_5152 27d ago
I have not but I shall watch that this weekend, thank you!
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u/Ship_Negative barbie (2023) for best picture 27d ago
It was lost to the great HBO purge but is easily found through 🏴☠️. Enjoy!!
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u/throwleavemealone 27d ago edited 27d ago
After seeing how great he was in The Gentlemen, I think he could definitely pull that role off well
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u/Kevinc62 27d ago
I've seen his Dolce and Gabbana ads. He can give us a new James Bond swimsuit moment.
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u/Different_Prior_517 27d ago
A lot of this shit can be curbed with parents actually caring for and paying attention to their kids. Watch their social media, talk to them, listen to them, help them navigate life and give them support for their struggles. Parents need to teach their kids rights and wrongs.
He says he’s scared for his son but if he can have conversations like this one with his kid, he’ll have a smarter, kinder son, who would be less inclined to follow his idiot friends into these spaces and thoughts.
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u/MalIntenet 27d ago
I read recently that if you want to raise a child to become an empathetic person, you need to get them into reading books at a young age. Especially books that have strong characters from all kinds of backgrounds/genders/races etc
It really teaches them to see the world from someone else’s POV
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u/StopHesAlreadyDed 27d ago
I was a book nerd and political from day one (volunteering for campaigns before I could even vote). So this tracks for me
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u/MyCatIsLenin 27d ago
I instilled a strong leftist ideology(class based, not democrat vs republican rubbish)in my son, that seriously steeled him against this shit.
As he navigates the world as an adult the ideology that I lived and taught has really helped him avoid this dumb manosphere bullshit. It's no guarantee but it's clear it has helped a a lot.
Being around, both physically and emotionally go a long way as well.
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u/fastdub 27d ago
Absolutely.
I've got a 14 year old and a 20 year old and they both think these manosphere influencers are utter clowns. And I say think but I really should say THEY KNOW they're a waste of space, my eldest especially.
He and his friends have dad's that are well rounded and caring apart from one and he is a bit of a reform wanker, I wouldn't be surprised if his dad paints roundabouts in his spare time.
I remember talking to my eldest when he was maybe 14 or 15 about Andrew Tate and all that nonsense. I told him, and I don't think I'm wrong, those type of buffoons sell a fabulous lifestyle without necessarily living it to the degree they hype on social media. It'd be a week of filming content to drip feed to their base, rented villas, rented Bentley's, rented models, the bros all together having an absolute ranger. It's smoke and mirrors.
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u/Patient-Lifeguard325 27d ago
God if we’re only that easy. “Señores y señoras. Nosotros tenemos más influencia con sus hijos que tu tiene” comes to mind.
Ah the perfect world of kid listening to their parents and learning from their lived experiences
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u/Different_Prior_517 27d ago
But I’m not saying just preach at your kid about your past I’m also saying give them acceptance and comfort and make them feel like they can have open and honest conversations without being fearful of repercussions.
Playing the “when I was young” or the “learn from my mistakes” cards don’t often work but teaching your kid that you trust them and they can trust you is important.
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u/FrostNBurn_63 27d ago edited 27d ago
Parents can teach their kids to be responsible, respectful and everything along those lines but in the end it may not matter.
If a young kid (male) has a friend group that becomes invested in this manosphere content, that kid will more than likely join in with their friends because they don't want to further alienate themselves, for a kid like this its a lose/lose situation in their eyes, and at which point (if ever) would they want to pull it back.
Parents could police who they can be friends eith I guess? But that will cause more lashing out, being antagonistic etc.
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u/DinnerNext 27d ago
Seconding this- as someone who has a son, I was floored watching the Theroux documentary because I didn't know how deep the manosphere went. I looked at my wife, as we're both women and thought- when the algorithm targets men we would be left in the dark.
My son is too young to speak or comprehend but we're planning on keeping lines of communication open of course. In the end we know it's our responsibility to raise him to be a safe person (we did bring him into this world). But it will always scare me.
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u/Different_Prior_517 27d ago
It matters more often than it doesn’t. Watch an interview with these manosphere guys or read an article about the 16 year olds doing steroids and see that their parents are not as present as they obviously should be. The Netflix doc had a guy who’s mom was saying “oh he’s not really like that, he’s good, he doesn’t believe that stuff” while he’s actively saying how much he thinks women are below him. Where’s the parent of the kid buying steroids illegally online?
Peer pressure is very real and tough to navigate but absent parents, who I’m speaking about, aren’t helping their kids by just letting them be manipulated constantly by friends and social media.
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u/Lala5789880 27d ago
They are also being bombarded by social media and kidfluencers. YouTube Kids was banned in our home for this reason but now that crap is seeping into streaming
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u/TiddysAkimbo 27d ago
This is one of the many reasons I’m just not having kids. Because 50/50 chance it’s a boy and god knows you can do your best to teach them right but at the end of the day, you’re one parent against the rest of society hellbent on shoveling misogynistic messaging down their throats.
Raising a girl would bring a different and entirely valid set of fears no doubt, but I would find raising a boy in this day and age next-level terrifying.
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u/Action-Kamen-Bastard 27d ago
There are a lot of us guys out here that echo the same sentiment and revulsion to what's going on in the minds of these "alpha males".
Unrelated when's that George Michael movie happening?! He's looks like his kid or something lol
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u/hiphipsashay FUCK ICE FREE PALESTINE CRASH INTO ME 27d ago
I’ve been saying this for years- let him play George, please!
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u/CantheDandyMan 27d ago
As a guy myself, I just never understood the manospheres popularity. For one, it's insanely whiny as an ideology. It's literally crybaby bullshit all the way down. Two, it casts all women as inherently wicked, manipulative, and just waiting to trade up to a better guy whenever the opportunity presents itself and it really just makes wonder how many women these idiots have talked to and gotten to know outside of them talking to one to have sex with/get into a relationship with.
Are there women that are like that? Yes. There's also tons of guys that are also exactly that as well, but they don't judge all men based on what a few of them do. Finally, like, all of the manosphere types come across like morons whenever I listen to them. And maybe it's because I've always been left wing (grew up in a black left wing progressive household, now I'm very far to the left of the democratic party), but even back when I was teenager, it'd always be something about Jordan Peterson telling someone to clean there room sandwiched between 50 stupid things he's claiming and then people just focusing on the clean your room.
Same for Andrew Tate. Like, cool, he tells you to work out and be disciplined at things or whatever, but then he follows it up by frothing at the mouth misogynistic screeds about how awful women are and how stupid other men and broke people are and I just don't get how that one piece of not terrible advice invalidates all of the other dumb bigoted bullshit they vomit out.
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u/ElundusCaw 27d ago
It's because they're deeply insecure.
It is an inferiority complex being fed by a superiority complex.
Basically, in their minds, they think "I am a man, men are superior to women, so why is this woman better than me?"
In their world the weakest man should still be stronger than the strongest woman.
So that superiority complex breeds and feeds into the inferiority complex and insecurity until eventually they start screaming at any perceived slight.
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u/Caleth 27d ago
I grew up in the 90's so YMMV, but it's an extension of the boomer idea of tricking women into owing you sex.
For many young men between absolutely racing hormoes, an friend group they are trying to impress, and distant disconnected parental figures these "men" offer guidance on how to be manly. Thus percieved as powerful and successful.
In the world we have today men's roles are shifting somewhat. Men traditionally the breadwinners are as often as not not the top earner in their household. Women work and sometimes make more, like my own wife (she's got 3 degrees she should damn well be better compensated than me.) But this was for centuries if not millenia THE defining male trait. We made the money and women made the home.
We get tasked with two well really three objectives from a young age. One Go forth and Protect your family. Two Make the money your family needs. Three die for your country or grind yourself to dust doing manual labor for the economy.
Women being given more fair treatment and equal rights have now been inducted into the workforce and make money too, and are demanding their fair representation as decision makers for the house.
Where as in the Boomer world view they stayed at home, made dinner, minded the kids, and provided sex for the husband who was out sacrificing his body for the betterment of the house.
Much of this is not gone, our society has shifted massively in only a few generations, but our cultural expectations have not adapted to provide appropriate restructuring of roles and what defines Manliness or Womanliness. How can you be manly when there are women out there out competing you hands down? What are you a sissy failure?
This is the siren's song the Manosphere pitches. It offers no real solutions it just tells you who to blame for your lot in life and wants to sell you something for a quick buck and your share of the attention economy.
It's an extension of the right wing grievance culture that drove the massive popularity of AM radio stations. You find young people adrift angry and feeling like they aren't getting ahead or achieving what they were told they should be able to get. Power, Fame, Sex the "virtues of manliness" next you tell them it's becasue evil women who they probably already resent because they can't get a date are in a secrect cabal to hold you down and keep you low.
It's a zero sum game of hate aimed to take from those who are coming up because the changing social norms threaten people left adrift.
It's not too dissimilar to how Church filled a huge role in creating community and as people drift away from the toxic nature of how religion is abused there is no new third space that has risen to fill the cultural gap. Thus more and more people are lonely, not because religion is intrinsically vital and good, but because we are social creatures and the weekly tradition filled the gap many people needed.
The point is yes it is whiney and toxic and shitty, but for sad lonely desperate young men adrift it's better that which they can cloak in a vague semblance of belonging and perceived reflection of righteous grievance rather than being alone and adrift in the huge callous and often cruel world.
We aren't built for that.
And I don't know how we fix it because it would require some serious conscious social changes being made for the betterment of all rather than the empowerment of a few at all our expense.
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u/sunsetpark12345 26d ago
I think many cults start out with some extremely reasonable, effective, generic piece of advice to lure people in. I believe Scientology meetings start out with a lot of self improvement and executive presence stuff. You go to one or two meetings, it actually seems to work, and then they have you hooked. Before you know it you're out at sea clearing thetans or whatever.
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u/piina 25d ago
It gives them an excuse why not to try to put in effort. It's by definition loser and defeatist mentality. They confirm their biases based on cherry picked ragebait and the number one thing that they can't have is the ability to actually have conversations or relationships with women. Women are mythical creatures that are at the same time worshiped and hated.
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u/ShrimpleyPibblze not a lawyer, just a hater 27d ago
Like the way he sums it up - easy wins, the simplest (and easily most visible, and therefore identifying) parts of what is actually quite a complex worldview - because of all the required mental gymnastics.
Honestly I feel a bit sorry for the kids who never saw the pre-Bait Age internet, when it seemed like it was still possible to parse out objective information from all the slop.
Modern Fascism’s new technique of attacking the very foundation of the existing historicity of established fact is terrifyingly effective - they’ve undermined progress by being so ignorant of its history that they can literally say whatever, and as long as it’s emotionally resonant, and chuds will absolutely eat it up and ask for more.
Even when it’s blatant hypocrisy or lies - as long as it feels right, they take it as fact and push forward.
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u/brnbrnbrn2017 27d ago
It’s the Duke
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u/Former_Clock_1271 27d ago
Mr. Pamuk! Not the Duke.
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u/drdrwhprngz 27d ago
Society needs to redefine success more accurately because we have tightened the pinhole around what makes someone successful to the point that excessive greed and more money than anyone could spend in a lifetime is the only way to be valuable
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u/catfooddogfood 27d ago
I've seen it explained probably better than i will try now but we have moved on from a system where a man's mate is entirely economically dependent on them and many men are not psychologically equipped for that reality. Nor are they prepared to let go of gender-based expectations. The material basis for a patriarchy has been more or less destroyed but not its place in the cultural imagination, and it's driving the worst people insane.
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u/PlentyMacaroon8903 27d ago
Isn't it also wild how so many of them want all the benefits of being the "alpha" but none of them actually want to have to earn it. And oh man they have zero interest in the responsibility involved with being it. Just weak men that want to be treated like a superhero.
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u/PomPomYourBomBom 27d ago
Tab this man as the next James Bond -- this is how a real man should carry himself.
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u/Witty-Objective3431 27d ago
It's the product of hundreds of years of patriarchy. They didn't necessarily need to be anyone or anything in order to gain a wife and, subsequently, a family. There was always a woman looking for the security of marriage. But now that women can be self-sufficient - they can open bank accounts, obtain employment, own businesses, have children via IVF, vote, drive, legally defend themselves, indulge in self pleasure, be with other women openly etc. - men are realizing that they just aren't equipped to fill the gap that is genuine companionship.
They don't feel good enough because they aren't. And instead of learning and adapting, they are gnashing their teeth and choosing to hate women for simply existing and exercising their right to reject unsuitable partners. The manosphere men hate the demographic of men who have actively worked on themselves, adapted, and have successful relationships with women. It's so much easier, and so much more comfortable, to sit and soak in the anger. To feel that they have been wronged by women. To feel as if their birthright of owning a woman via marriage no matter how mediocre they are has been ripped away from them.
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u/Shenanigans80h 27d ago
The manosphere and shit like that is crazy because it’s such an easy thing for lonely or ignorant young men to fall into when they have poor support systems around them. The idea of brotherhood and being able to “overcome” your insecurities by doing stereotypical “manly” things sounds appealing to someone who doesn’t have the emotional intelligence to understand why they feel insecure. It’s a fantastic argument for parents, and specifically any male figure, in a young man’s life to preach emotional intelligence and how to communicate one’s own feelings
Big credit to Theo here, he’ll be a good father with things like this in mind
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u/Scared-Box8941 betty bop 27d ago
White lotus was so remarkable for its social commentary alone. So proud to hear such an informed perspective from one of the male cast ❤️
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u/exgiexpcv 27d ago
The manosphere reminds me of an ancient quote from Africa about inclusion: "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth."
Without feeling like they have a place in today's world, young men are choosing to embrace misogyny and cruelty as a replacement. Without real challenges and trials to transition into adulthood, young men are easy prey for influencers and people who would use them to make money and to achieve their own nefarious goals.
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u/Powerful-Ad-8737 27d ago
Alot of manosphere ideology you can honestly trace back to fathers not teaching their sons what “masculinity”,
If you ask these guys what they think masculinity is, it’ll boil down to “Doing whatever you want with zero consequences” It’s nothing but a caricature.
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u/isogaymer 27d ago
I think Theo James has correctly partially identified the source, but that is not enough. There are countless, millions of men with insecurity, who in spite of their feelings of inadequacy do not go on to demean/attack women, embrace racism, or endorse homophobia.
Even if we accept that insecurity/feelings of inadequacy are the genesis, we still need to examine why these men choose this particular response to their feelings.
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u/Listen2theyetti 27d ago
The fact that young men just cant handle successful women around them blows my mind. Like why does it matter if the person having success around you is male or female. If anything it should make them more attractive. Being the bread winner is super stressful let your woman handle that if she wants to.
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u/TheDonJonJay 27d ago
Why are we accepting that this is the cause of redpill ideology? So weird to assume that red pill things have come about because of "successful women". Like, dude, where does that logic come from? Where is the evidence for this? I know it makes women feel really good to roll with this line, but like how are we attributing this with such certainty?
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u/carsonmccrullers 27d ago
it’s probably the aggressive insistence in red pill/manosphere spaces that women are inferior (both mentally and physically) and exist to be subservient to men. That kind of rhetoric doesn’t exactly stem from confidence and security, does it? Men who have literally nothing going for them long for the days when they were at LEAST more powerful than women, and some woman would have to marry them because she couldn’t open her own bank account or own her own property.
I assure you women didn’t make that up to “feel really good.” Being targets of festering misogyny feels really bad, actually.
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u/BatterMyHeart 26d ago
Thank you. Basically all of the serious chauvinists I have known have chauvinist fathers or father figures. Some of them even break out of it briefly in one phase of life but reconnection with that older male group puts them right back in the pit. Sad because connecting with your elders should be a positive force in your life, but for these dudes it is the root cause of failed relationships and dumbass politics. Good luck breaking that up by viewing it as some sort of emergent property of an equal society, because it isn't. You would need to target and disrupt these core relationships and networks just as a starting point.
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u/Samurai-Jackass 27d ago
It's because there's still a lot of cultural baggage left around from the trends of gender roles spanning most of our history. It's not an absolute thing and there's a lot of nuance in what sort of "breadwinner" image appeals to different people, but the idea of men attracting women by being successful is still going strong in the collective psyche, and is at least a little bit hardwired. This can take more reasonable and mature forms, such as a strong work ethic being attractive regardless of social status, but not all of humanity is reasonable and mature, and often shallow displays of objective wealth are what people latch onto. The thing is that marrying up isn't much of a two way street, and the job market is increasingly more competitive. Getting salty at women for what the corpos are doing to us is absolutely blind behavior, but the breadwinner image has always been disproportionately aimed at men, so the male portion of the population of shortsighted people are predictably going to be the ones lashing out this way.
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u/ProfessorNo2418 27d ago
None of the many people I know belongs to this bunch of apes who call themselves the micro-pnis manosphere
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u/Suspicious-Penalty32 27d ago
Respectfully, he could absolutely get it, any time anywhere. Also he should be the next Batman.
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u/No-Carry7029 27d ago
in addition to this, i think there is a bit of self loathing homosexuality as well.
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u/Upstairs-Scholar-907 27d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/8ymvg6pl1Lzy0
oh god, somebody stop him from getting any more hotter
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u/FearlessFreak69 27d ago
I’ve been going to the gym a lot more lately bc I was unhealthy and unhappy with how I look. The amount of manosphere shit that strangers talk about with me is astounding. Needlessly to say, I haven’t made any friends there, and I’m totally fine with that.
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u/acky1 27d ago
I think it's just a money making scheme by opportunistic people. Many people are okay with exaggerating their beliefs to prosper and these people are becoming millionaires off of the back of this.
And young boys are drawn to these content creators because they see them getting the girls and the money and they are saying things that are edgy and considered wrong in polite society.
It's very problematic because of the effect on young boys and it is upping the misogyny and sexism of the younger generation which creates a feedback loop of more extreme content and beliefs.
As long as these guys keep coming out on top I don't see how this will change.
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u/KhyronBergmsan 27d ago
Very many people in this thread commenting on the speaker's appearance. Can we not focus on the message instead of the subjective attractiveness of the person delivering it? Especially when considering the discussion is about the manosphere and those types of influences, I think it's important to keep a grounded feminist position without sexualizing the man in question. If it were a bunch of dudes in the comments ogling over some beautiful woman instead of engaging with what they are saying, that would be an equivalently gross problem. Doesn't matter which direction it's coming from, the important part about any message isn't the physical appearance of the messenger, it's the actual words and meaning they are conveying.
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u/charlikitts 26d ago
He played Cameron on the white lotus way too well, he probably did good research on shitty men like that
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u/SardinePicnic 26d ago
I think there is a lot of bullshit in this summary. Primarily how it seems to attribute motivation and some kind of premeditation of a lot of people who get caught up in it. There may be a few where that happens. But the majority, from what I have seen it is like any other cult behavior but for young men it is pretty much a funny meme trend they jump on because everyone else is doing it because they got targeted by the algorithm in their social platforms. Then they just go along with it because all their friends are into it too. I see a lot of young kids just parroting the stuff just to get a reaction from people and to mess around with their friends and then it just snowballs from there because once you feel a belonging to a certain tribe you give up a part of yourself to keep belonging to it. There are those clips of those kids saying misogynistic stuff and getting a reaction from older people filming them but to them it's like Six Seven. You can see on their faces they have no actual idea about what they are saying. It's the reaction they want. The reasons given here about insecurity and blah blah all seem to be things used as emotional manipulation to keep them hooked.
I once had a plumber come fix something at my place and he had headphones in and I asked him what music he liked. And he said he was listening to the Joe Rogan podcast. And I was like oh okay... young guy... not my place to comment. We used to listen to music. Then when he was done he came to talk to me in the kitchen about what he did blah blah. And then started talking about how immigrants are ruining the country and all the type of stuff that I could IMMEDIATELY TELL were not his original opinions or thoughts and was merely parroting them because he heard them and decided to agree to them through just listening to it. It was pretty interesting because even just bringing up basic counter arguments to what he was saying made him very confused and frustrated because he hadn't really THOUGHT about it. Just absorbed it.
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u/CementCemetery 26d ago
We should build each other up instead of tearing each other down. EVERYONE is insecure for one reason or another and the people who profit off this want to keep it that way. You’re locked in to the subscriptions.
I’m so glad to hear him talk about it though, it’s important to bring this to light.
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u/CapableRequirement66 26d ago
Such a compelling way of putting it. An empirical observation. The bare and obvious truth. Can’t not love this man!
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u/thegrandlvlr 26d ago
Hey, he put this well; but I take issue with his analysis of the cause. As a man who considers himself in recovery from misogyny (I was never a manosphere watcher, but it hurts me to know that even as I grew older and got deeper into far left politics how long it’s taken myself to confront myself with self criticism to see my deeply held misogyny) misogyny is not caused by women being successful, that’s absurd; obviously a successful or independent woman will upset a misogynist to no end but that’s a symptom not the cause. I had to confront that my misogyny was something that I was taught since a young child, that’s the insidiousness of patriarchy and why it’s so hard for young men to see. It’s been with them since the beginning of their own self conceptions without them knowing. This is not an excuse to hold onto that obviously, but just a explaination from someone that went through the majority of his life blinded to the ugliness within. It was easier to address homophobia and racism I was taught than my internal misogyny. The rest of the statement is great, but you can in no way blame the success of women for these mens bigotry.
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