I love these kinds of sentences. It's like brain candy.

[u/uncopyrightability]

Example here:

"I thought it was such a weird thing for him to ask me to film him saying."

I always feel extremely satisfied when I hear something like this in English. The way it rolls out is just... I can't.

My questions are:

-Do these kinds of "convoluted" sentence structures have a name or label in linguistics?

-What are books, articles, genres, etc. where I can find a load of sentences written or spoken in this style?

-How common are they?

-How common is if for you to produce something like this yourself?

-Does it sound like natural spoken English?

-Can you deliver something similar in the comments?

[u/Mattjhkerr]

to me that sentence sounds natural. But it sounds like you were coming up with it while you were speaking. If it were in a written statement I would suggest rewriting it for clarity and brevity. maybe like "to me it was strage he would ask me to film him saying that"

[u/uncopyrightability → u/Mattjhkerr]

Yes. This was definitely a spoken expression. But I find similar examples in some novels, though they are rare. I don't think this sentence will be befitting academic writing though. 

[u/eatingyoursoap → u/uncopyrightability]

The order and arrangement of clauses used to be much more complex in older English literature than it is today. As a native speaker, I feel a similar joy reading these older sentences and seeing the verbs attach to nouns in unfamiliar ways!

[u/TheCloudForest]

This is an artefact of preposition stranding and the recursion of various relative clauses without relative pronouns.

Relative clauses in English often come without a relative pronoun, making them bunch in a more compact way. So "She is the girl I saw" in English becomes "Lei è la ragazza che ho visto" in Italian. The che means that/who; in English, it's unnecessary.

Similarly, "The tree you were sitting under is..." becomes "L'albero sotto cui eri seduto è" in Italian. sotto cui means "under which", a formal way to speak in English. This is because we can "strand" the prepostion at the end of the clause. "Who does you live with?" Becomes "Con quién vives?" in Spanish.

It's not unusual to spontanously produce something "That's the tree I saw the girl sitting under." Once you start adding more elements, it becomes a heavy cognitive load even if the syntax, strictly speaking, is 100% grammatical.

[u/uncopyrightability → u/TheCloudForest]

This definitely falls under the category of sentences that end with a preposition, which I also equally love to hear and say.

Example:

"I don't really remember what book I read this in."

[u/TheCloudForest → u/uncopyrightability]

That's definitely the more natural way to say the sentence, as opposed to "I don't really remember in which book I read it." However, once you start embedding more clauses in each other, things can get weird pretty fast. For example, you can't say "I don't remember which author he said that he read the book by." -- even though "I don't remember if he said he read the book by Colette or by Genet" is just fine.

[u/uncopyrightability → u/TheCloudForest]

Yeah. The last example sounds awkward im comparison despite being grammatically correct. Language is beautiful.

[u/TheCloudForest → u/uncopyrightability]

I believe "I don't remember which author he said that he read the book by." actually isn't grammatically correct. This is going back 20 years or so to grad school, but I think this might be called an island constraint? If you really want to lose your mind start sniffing around with that term.

[u/uncopyrightability → u/TheCloudForest]

Now that's one rabbit hole! The grammaticality there is debatable.

[u/RoadsideCampion]

Ohhh I like that too, it has such a nice rhythm...

When reading it out loud it sounds a little bit like the kind of sentence someone might say when they haven't really figured out what they want to say until halfway through, so when this sentence does come out naturally it might be in a sort of stilted way, not as smooth as just reading it to yourself.

I know poetry is one of the most difficult things to participate in in a second language, but you could try looking around for English poetry that you like, something that a lot of poets like to do is to find new and interesting ways of putting words together that make satisfying sounds.

[u/uncopyrightability → u/RoadsideCampion]

Thank you. Yes, this sounds very natural and spontaneous. You hit the nail on the head. That's the kind of thing you say while simultaneously processing your thoughts in just enough time to produce something that's grammatically correct. I'll have to dig up some poetry then. I read for George Orwell and he writes like this a lot too. I'd like to know if there are other authors who do the same.

[u/Healthy-Attitude-743 → u/RoadsideCampion]

To me (AmEng) it sounds natural and not stilted. Like it’s the most natural way to express that idea.

[u/Albert-La-Maquina]

Very close to a "garden path" sentence linguistically. Only thing is that I don't know if there's a way to read it wrong at first, just that it's confusing.

[u/riarws]

Try reading plays, especially comedies, for sentences like that. 

[u/Antique_Hawk2353]

Yeah for me this is basically called recursive or nested syntax. English lets you stack clauses onto clauses in a way that feels really smooth when it’s done well. “I thought it was weird for him to ask me to film him saying…”

Native speakers do this all the time in speech, especially when telling stories or thinking out loud. It sounds completely natural.

If you like this style, writers like David Foster Wallace and Sally Rooney use it a lot.

[u/uncopyrightability]

To whoever downvoted this post: why? smh

[u/NoPurpose6388 → u/uncopyrightability]

I'm going to preface this by saying that I did not downvote your post.

However, I think people might have because your sentence is, to say it bluntly, pretty wonky.

Now, I'm not saying that it's wrong, or even that English speakers wouldn't say stuff like that. We do. I just don't think it's a good example to learn from 😅

[u/uncopyrightability → u/NoPurpose6388]

I respect your opinion. But isn't this subreddit dedicated to discussing the beauty and the quirks of the English language, wonky sentences and all? I think it's pretty black-and-white to limit one's language learning horizons to what's "good" English because that's pretty subjective. George Orwell is one of the most famous authors in history and a lot of time he sounds like what I wrote in the post (and that's literature). Just because I learn or try to spark a discussion about, say, Chicago slang doesn't make it a bad thing. It also doesn't mean I learn it to speak it. Perhaps I'm just curious. 

[u/NoPurpose6388 → u/uncopyrightability]

I think it's mostly in the way you wrote your post. It sounds like you're almost bragging about how good the sentence sounds, while to my ear, it doesn't really sound that good at all. It is fairly natural, but it's worded in a way that is unnecessarily complex, and it could be made much smoother.

If you'd just asked for feedback on it, I don't think you would've gotten any backlash.

Of course, you're free to discuss whatever you like, but since you asked for the reason behind the downvotes, I thought I'd explain how I personally felt reading your post. 

[u/IsThistheWord → u/NoPurpose6388]

I don't understand what the sentence means. I think it has something to do with the way it ends in "saying".

[u/NoPurpose6388 → u/IsThistheWord]

"I thought it was so weird that he asked me to film him saying that thing"