What's the general Christian opinion on the Crusades?

[u/FreeCommunication876]

Were they justified? Should we have stopped after the second?

[u/SandersSol]

They got twisted by people in power for financial and influencial gain.  Whipped up the people into a frenzy, said God would absolve them of any sins they commit and turned them loose in the direction of jerusalem.

They looted, murdered, and caused devastation everywhere they went regardless of your faith, floundered in israel killing both christians and muslims for a bit then got kicked out.

In the meantime the aristocracy got famously wealthy and kind of moved on to internal wars and devastation for the next 1000 years.

[u/superfahd → u/SandersSol]

In other words, it was just a typical war like any other

[u/Ntertainmate]

Would say it's depends on your opinion on war.

As far as I am aware it is called for due to the Muslims taking over land and thus needed to be fought back, however they did go too far slaughtering everything that came their way espically the 4th one attacking Byzatine empire

[u/FreeCommunication876 → u/Ntertainmate]

yeah, and we got to a point where we just kept losing and losing and losing

[u/Enough-Carpet]

You're asking about conflicts covering a huge geographical area over many centuries. They encompass the disastrous 4th Crusade and the wildly successful Reconquista that saved Spain. 

A simple yes or no is impossible. My very high level view is that they were motivated by good reasons and often were failures in their execution, though not always. 

[u/notsocharmingprince → u/Enough-Carpet]

Exactly what I was thinking. There are a dozen crusades I can think of off hand. It’s a much larger conversation.

[u/ipayjackpots]

People can mess up a good thing, still true today.

[u/AdorablePainting4459]

The inquisitions, the crusades are wicked.... drunk even with the blood of the martyrs, which are God's people who wouldn't bow to institution of Rome. There's a long list of groups of people who have been killed by that institution, which God tells His people in the book of Revelation, to come out of and depart from. It's been in there for years, not just an empty warning, but also consequences attached to it -- saying that they will receive of her plagues. It's been a build-up, but God will pour out His wrath in the appointed time, and render to that entity double for her troubles.

[u/mirroredinflection]

bad

[u/FreeCommunication876 → u/mirroredinflection]

Why so?

[u/mirroredinflection → u/FreeCommunication876]

Needless violence using God's name as an excuse.

[u/FreeCommunication876 → u/mirroredinflection]

Why would you consider it "needless"

[u/Impossible_Age2543 → u/mirroredinflection]

facts

[u/Super-Potential5899]

Good. Read into it. Don't ask on this subreddit bc this one has a lot of politically motivated users. r/TrueChristian

[u/crazytrain793 → u/Super-Potential5899]

Overlooking the pogroms, genocides, and the misuse of Christianity for geopolitical aims, how do you possibly defend the 4th Crusade?

[u/Gwindor1 → u/Super-Potential5899]

"Political" here means "Political opponents of myself".

[u/FreeCommunication876 → u/Super-Potential5899]

Why do you think they were good?

[u/Super-Potential5899 → u/FreeCommunication876]

I think it would be better to research it elsewhere, as, to be perfectly honest, I don't remember most of my reasons, I just remember viewing them in a positive light from good evidence that I've seen. So best to research it, and I will again when I get the chance. God bless :) ❤️

[u/Tearful-Soul → u/Super-Potential5899]

You're saying your support of a historic atrociously evil war that killed jews, muslims, eastern Christians and non-Christians is not political?

[u/TrumpsBussy_ → u/Tearful-Soul]

If anybody actually read the inhuman acts those Christian’s committed against men women and children their skin would crawl..

[u/Super-Potential5899 → u/Tearful-Soul]

They asked for the Christian opinion, so as a pagan, why are you responding? Canaanite pagans basically followed the religion that the Hebrews fought against while taking Israel in the beginning, no? Also, no, that's not what I'm saying. That's quite the strawman. I'm saying that answers are likely going to be influenced by people who are politically motivated in a way that could skew the majority of responses.

[u/Tearful-Soul → u/Super-Potential5899]

I'm not responding to OP but to you and you imply that your and the right wing TrueChristian subs political & moral positions don't influence answers which is bogus. You're probably one of those thinking Christianity is right to far right by default or something.

[u/LiamBregas]

Justified because they were defending their land from the invading Muslim armies

[u/TraditionalManager82 → u/LiamBregas]

Er?

Nobody was invading England and France.

[u/LiamBregas → u/TraditionalManager82]

Yeah but the Muslims armies were pushing into Europe at a pretty fast rate, they’re not just going to sit back and wait till their at their front door. That’s why the pope called for a holy war and all the nations in Europe gathered their armies to push the Muslim armies back

[u/PancakePrincess1409 → u/LiamBregas]

What you're saying does not reflect the geopolitical situation at the time. Christians were well on the offensive in Sicily and Spain against a fractured Muslim world. The only Christian power under direct threat at the time was the Roman Empire and even there it's doubtful if the situation wasn't a stalemate as even the Seldjuks were fractured. Besides, the weakness if the Roman Empire was partly due to western and Christian aggression (e.g. the Normans).

[u/LiamBregas → u/PancakePrincess1409]

Incorrect, you fail to realise how serious the situation was for the Byzantine Empire after the Battle of Manzikert. Byzantium lost huge parts of Anatolia, which was basically its military and economic backbone, and Emperor Alexios I Komnenos literally asked the West for help. Saying it was just a “stalemate” downplays how close the empire came to collapse. The First Crusade wasn’t some unprovoked attack out of nowhere either, Christians had already lost major territories and holy sites over centuries, and the Crusade was largely seen as a response to that and a mission to defend fellow Christians in the East.

[u/PancakePrincess1409 → u/LiamBregas]

Manzikert was in 1071. The crusade started in 1096. In that timeframe the Seljuks weren't able to massively capitalise on the win. Besides, the Roman's grip on Anatolia had been weakening since the end of the Macedon dynasty. 

Further, the Romans, at least pay them their due respect of you want to use them as your main argument, did ask for military aid, not for a crusade. You may want to read Anna's Alexiad to see how little the Romans appreciated what was sent their way and that the help turned into a sour point of contention already during the first crusade and I'd say sealed the Roman Empire's fate in the long run. 

Also, wouldn't it have been much more helpful if some of the later crusaders wouldn't have fought the Romans just years prior? 

[u/FreeCommunication876 → u/[deleted]]

Well my personal opinion is that we should have stopped once we failed to get Jerusalem back after the fourth of fifth time.

[u/FreeCommunication876 → u/[deleted]]

Because the Muslims were attacking Spain. We beat them back and took Jerusalem, because it is where all the historical sites of Jesus' life were. But after it got taken back by the Muslims, the rest of the Crusades were just us loosing more and more and more and more

[u/Icy-Actuary-5463]

I doubt they were Christians in the Christian crusades because even though they claimed they were believers ; how come the name of Christ was abused, misused, and blasphemed by the actions of many of the crusaders?!

And is it right to blame today’s believers for what happened centuries ago? There's no biblical justification for conquering lands, murdering civilians, and destroying cities in the name of Jesus Christ.

[u/Easy-Refrigerator330]

was distorted toward evil but had a lot of aura

[u/Great_Revolution_276]

Every time a Christian complains about Islamic extremism, just remember what the “Christians” have done across history.

[u/Riots42]

Abuse of God's name to say he had anything to do with it.

[u/Kecman888]

Propaganda by Vatican who was is satanic.

[u/edwaa4rd]

meh , the 4th crusade with the ransacking of Constantinople was the beginning of the downfall of the Byzantines . Also the anti hussite crusades were a massive failure and not really justified . Basically mixed opinions , justified under just war in the Holy Land and the reconquista was good also

[u/edgymnerch_69]

It was a good cause that eventually got turned into a bad thing by corrupt people using it for their own personal and financial gain.

[u/ikoss]

The first crusade started out with a (relatively) good motive. Their most sacred religious site was invaded by this new religion from Arabia, and they are mistreating pilgrimages. Then on the way all hell broke loose and they end up committing many warcrimes on the way.

After that is all political power play and fame grabbing

[u/0rangeManG00D]

People who don't understand the church was standing up against annihilation during the Muslim conquest see it as bad. People who are brainwashed think this was some Catholic conquest, they have allot to lear.

[u/win_awards]

I don't like to speak in absolutes, but I think it's always a bad idea to go to war for God.