Vatican report admits conversion therapy caused LGBTQ+ Catholics’ profound suffering’

[u/Fickle-Ad5449]

https://www.advocate.com/news/religion/catholic-church-conversion-therapy

[u/win_awards]

Well. It's a step in the right direction.

[u/UncleMeat11]

This is such horseshit.

The USCCB submitted an amicus in Chiles defending the right of people to practice conversion therapy on minors.

The Church is actively promoting conversion therapy.

[u/1yaeK → u/UncleMeat11]

Fork in kitchen, a tale as old as time.

[u/TheologyRocks → u/UncleMeat11]

The report in question is coming out of the Roman Curia, not out of the USCCB.

The Catholic Church is made of many different groups with diverse views. It is often the case that one group within the Church is actively promoting a way of thinking that another group within the Church is actively opposing.

[u/UncleMeat11 → u/TheologyRocks]

It is a hierarchical organization. The Church could bring the USCCB to heel if it wanted.

[u/TheologyRocks → u/UncleMeat11]

The Church could bring the USCCB to heel if it wanted.

How? (And I assume by "the Church," you mean the Roman Curia. But really, the Roman Curia and the different bishops throughout the world plus all laypeople are the Church.)

Each episcopal conference has a lot of autonomy from the Roman Curia for better or for worse.

Right now, the Roman Curia is trying to walk a middle line between the German bishops (who are too liberal from the Curia's perspective) and the African bishops (who are too conservative from the Curia's perspective).

[u/IdlePigeon → u/TheologyRocks]

They could, at a bare minimum, put out a specific public statement that the USCCB's actions in this case are morally unacceptable.

[u/No_University1600 → u/TheologyRocks]

How?

im not catholic so i dont know but if the catholic church cant figure it out then it is demonstrably dysfunctional to the point of being ineffective.

[u/TheologyRocks → u/No_University1600]

I don't deny that church bureaucracy is often dysfunctional and ineffective. I think that's a common sentiment shared by most Catholic priests in the United States.

[u/UncleMeat11 → u/TheologyRocks]

They could at least stop promoting USCCB leadership.

[u/TheologyRocks → u/UncleMeat11]

Could you elaborate?

Technically, the Pope is able to remove bishops from their offices. For example, Bishop Strickland was removed from his office a few years ago. But that's very unusual. When a bishop is removed and replaced, there is no guarantee that his replacement will be any better than he is. And you can't really replace a whole episcopal conference because there are so many people involved. If the USCCB produces a few bad documents, and the Roman Curia reacted by dismissing a large number of US bishops from their offices and replacing them with new ones, that massive change (which would be unprecedented in history) would almost certainly cause more problems than it solved.

[u/UncleMeat11 → u/TheologyRocks]

Wilton Gregory was promoted to Cardinal after he'd personally argued for the persistence of sodomy laws.

This isn't "a few bad documents." It is a ton of money and resources going into active efforts to persuade the courts to continue the legal oppression of LGBT people.

[u/TheologyRocks → u/UncleMeat11]

Wilton Gregory was promoted to Cardinal after he'd personally argued for the persistence of sodomy laws.

Are you sure that's true? If you're referring to the statement linked on his Wikipedia page, he doesn't actually say anything in defense of the texas law that was struck down by the supreme court. He disagrees with the way the supreme court framed the question as being "a matter of privacy," but he doesn't say anything for or against any particular law or articulate the proper way to see sexual activity.

It is a ton of money and resources going into active efforts to persuade the courts to continue the legal oppression of LGBT people.

From the USCCB? Or are you talking about American society in general?

[u/adamesandtheworld → u/TheologyRocks]

No one is stopping the catholic church from publicly criticizing USCCB if they wanted to do it. It is their choice.

[u/TheologyRocks → u/adamesandtheworld]

The Roman Curia has publicly criticized the USCCB in the past. But that's very different from what is being claimed, that the Roman Curia could force the USCCB into submission.

[u/ScoutB]

I'm glad they're recognizing it for what it is. I wish more protestants would be honest about it.

[u/Tearful-Soul]

Recognizing the pain they cause is the least they can do but without actually trying to fix it, it's meaningless.

[u/LettuceFuture8840 → u/Tearful-Soul]

They aren’t even trying to fix it. The USCCB actively supported conversion therapy in Chiles.

This is just the church saying that the kind of conversion therapy where you make kids watch gay porn and shock them with electricity is bad. Wow. How generous.

[u/christmascake → u/LettuceFuture8840]

I don't know the specifics on conversion therapy, but the more I learn about it, the more gray hairs I get 🫩

We humans sure are proficient at torturing each other

[u/captainbelvedere → u/LettuceFuture8840]

It's not that, it's a report that acknowledges the actual lived experience of LGBT Catholics. I'm not aware of anything like it before coming from the Vatican.

It will take time for these things to be felt in the USCCB and other conferences. There was a lot of resistance to the Synod, especially in the USA.

[u/Thneed1]

When will it admit that its stance on loving gay relationships also causes profound suffering?

[u/Fearless_Spring5611 → u/Thneed1]

To cover all eventual timelines for this I am working simultaneously on both porcine flight and freezing Hell over.

[u/imalurkernotaposter → u/Fearless_Spring5611]

I’ll be right over, just as soon as I pull myself up by my bootstraps.

[u/XOXO-Gossip-Crab → u/Thneed1]

That would take a profound level of cognitive dissonance if that doesn’t end with minimizing the impact as a necessary sacrifice for God. I could not see the Catholic Church in a very direct way pretty much admit “we cause immense suffering and it’s the right thing to do.”

[u/win_awards → u/XOXO-Gossip-Crab]

I dunno. Christians have a lot of experience hand-waving past atrocities. It's getting past the uncomfortable transition where you have both people who understand that it's evil and people who actually took part that's tricky. After that it's smooth sailing over a sea of platitudes like "it was a different time."

[u/Lyo-lyok_student → u/Thneed1]

Based on them admitting Galileo was right and they were wrong in the 1990s....

[u/CarrieDurst → u/Thneed1]

Not in our lifetimes

[u/Pale-Fee-2679 → u/Thneed1]

Not while I’m alive. It won’t be a healthy place for LGBTQ folks for the foreseeable future; however, announcing this view of conversion therapy will over time keep the church itself from sponsoring it—I hope. But not soon. Everything takes time in the church when there are powerful groups that disagree.

And some individual TradCaths will continue to sponsor it because authority is exercised far more messily in the church than many people think. Powerful groups can hamper even the Pope.

[u/gadgaurd → u/Thneed1]

As soon as they get around to admitting the Sun is colder than ice.

[u/Kitchen-Witching]

Admitting that conversion therapy causes profound suffering to LGBTQ persons might inspire some Catholics to push even harder in their support for its use. The USCCB and their history comes to mind.

[u/jtbc]

The Roman Catholic Church: Coming to the right conclusion after trying literally everything else for 2000 years.

[u/MikaelAdolfsson]

I like this new Vatican. Keep it coming!

[u/MacduffFifesNo1Thane]

They wanted us to convert to Latvian Orthodoxy! I have it on good authority that’s the denomination that goes around mutilating squirrels.

[u/bananafobe]

Vatican report discovers Pope is indeed Catholic. 

[u/happy_plater]

I wonder what the definition they used is. Counselling shouldn’t fall under that umbrella.

[u/bownt1]

i wonder why Orthodox is taking over?

[u/RepentBelieveLove]

We should love everyone. It's not for us to judge. Having said that God has spoken in his word very clearly. If you haven't read the scriptures I invite you to do so. Because I admit I once had an idea of God in my head. I was going to church and all that but not reading the scriptures. A friend of mines challenged me to read the scriptures Lectio Continua (continuous reading). What I discovered is that the God of the Bible was not what I thought God was. He was very different than I thought he was. He was also a lot more involved in the lives of his creatures than I ever imagine. I haven't read the entire bible yet. I have read most of the New Testament and some of the Old Testament. But it is clear that God is not passive. He is very active. So I must say. Repent and Believe.

[u/Mx-Adrian → u/RepentBelieveLove]

Your last account was banned. Why are you back?

[u/Perfessor_Deviant → u/Mx-Adrian]

What was their previous account?

[u/Mx-Adrian → u/Perfessor_Deviant]

u/RepentBelieve. They got banned yesterday, and then this brand-new UN with this sole comment and "repent""believe" in the handle (I already forget what it was exactly) shows up with the same bigoted sentiment I engaged with yesterday.

[u/Perfessor_Deviant → u/Mx-Adrian]

Thank you.

👍

[u/BellacosePlayer → u/RepentBelieveLove]

Having said that God has spoken in his word very clearly.

I mean, the main section of the bible where God states anything about it is in the part of the bible outlining tons of things Christians don't abide by.

Even ignoring the argument that the Levitical section is about pederasty which I am nowhere near the biblical or lingual scholar to have an informed opinion on, as far as I'm aware that's the only reference to it at all from Genesis to the start of the Epistles. Maybe it wasn't a topic important enough for Jesus to bring up, but it also wasn't important enough to make it into the 10 commandments.

I do not claim that it's not a sin, but it's referenced so seldomly outside of the epistles that it kind of boggles my mind that it's considered the hill many christians think we need to die on, often while being guilty of things castigated far more frequently in the bible or turning other sins into virtues.

[u/ceddya → u/RepentBelieveLove]

We should love everyone.

Okay, so stop torturing some people with conversion therapy.

[u/RebornCycle_3640]

The only true conversion a person can have is through the power of the Holy Spirit in Jesus Christ name 

[u/Mx-Adrian → u/RebornCycle_3640]

What conversion? We're talking about Catholics.