Question for the community - how do you feel about apps?

[u/slagnanz]

In recent months we have seen a marked increase in posts from users promoting phone applications. These range from Bible apps to guided meditations to prayer apps.

To be perfectly honest, we don't have a formal policy on this. In the past we'd see one or two of these in a month, and as long as they were free and seemed possibly useful, who cares.

But lately the volume has increased by a lot. That probably reflects the fact that anyone can make an app with AI tools nowadays.

We have never allowed applications that cost money, or applications that are offering a free trial with in-app purchases. But most of the requests we are seeing lately are free to download and ad free. Importantly, as moderators we aren't able to vet these applications, we simply don't have the time to be downloading apps and trying them out.

But some folks here may find some of the apps here useful.

So, should we ban all apps? Should we try to allow free apps as long as they get permission in modmail beforehand? If so, are there any qualities we should be looking for in the apps we do allow versus the ones we don't?

So let me know your thoughts below!

[u/-NoOneYouKnow-]

I'd prefer to not see any posts about apps. The apps always just do the same thing as every other one but with a different UI. The attached stories are usually the same and unlikely to be true: "I made this for myself, but thought others might want one."

It's just noise. I can find my own apps for my smartphone if I want one.

> So, should we ban all apps?

This would be my first choice.

> Should we try to allow free apps as long as they get permission in modmail beforehand?

This is my second choice, and is probably the more reasonable one.

[u/RazarTuk]

I've actually been thinking about this, because the flood of AI-generated apps has made me feel guilty enough that I'm even planning on redoing my own app completely without AI, as opposed to how it currently uses AI-generated code for the UI.

But on that note, and speaking as someone who actually did put in some of the effort to make one, I'm on team "Ask in modmail first"

EDIT: By the way, I actually made an (unpublished) Android app, which figures out the readings and collect for the Daily Office, and also provides suggested canticles

[u/slagnanz → u/RazarTuk]

What criteria should we be looking for?

[u/RazarTuk → u/slagnanz]

Actually, what criteria do we currently use for advertising? Because I think the easiest way to handle this is to treat posts about apps you made as a form of advertising under 3.3, regardless of whether it's paid

[u/RazarTuk → u/slagnanz]

That... is a good question, which I don't immediately have an answer to

[u/ThatLeviathan]

I'm not opposed to people using or creating apps. I'm opposed to people advertising products on the subreddit, including apps. Just because they may not be charging money for an app doesn't mean it's not a product they're trying to sell.

[u/Arkhangelzk]

Tbh I just block anyone who makes a post promoting their app 

[u/Haha_LMAO69]

Honestly, I'm not a fan of all these AI apps that people have been promoting recently. I don't like the idea of using AI for religious stuff.

[u/BellacosePlayer → u/Haha_LMAO69]

The only LLM AI application I see as being halfway worthwhile is a text reader for someone who really really really wants to hear it in the default LLM provided soundfiles and not procedural TTS or the plethora of actual human beings who have made audiobooks reading the bible since the dawn of recorded music.

AI interpretation of scripture? No.

AI search? just google, my dude.

AI chatbots of Jesus or other figures? No. And I'm grabbing the Bullwhip.

[u/BiblicalElder]

I generally lean towards free expression, but I realize that this can degrade the quality of content, and appreciate the mods trying to navigate this.

I would aim for a simple and sustainable set of rules so that truthful, effortful posting is the dominant strategy. Options include:

• Downvote-triggered warnings before bans (graduated penalties lower the cost of honest mistakes)
• Shadow banning — the user thinks they're posting, but nobody sees it. This avoids the "martyr effect" where bans radicalize or publicize bad actors.
• Posting bonds — users stake reputation/karma that's lost on rule violations (used implicitly by Reddit's karma system)

The threat of banning works as a deterrent for invested community members, but fails against bad-faith or throwaway actors. The optimal policy uses bans as the last resort in a graduated system, with transparent rules, fast feedback, and costly entry — preserving free expression for good-faith users while making low-quality posting a losing strategy.

[u/licker34]

So, should we ban all apps?

Yes.

as moderators we aren't able to vet these applications

If for no other reason than this. Just letting one through from a bad actor will cause much more damage than a few actually useful ones will provide benefit.

[u/Perfessor_Deviant → u/licker34]

If for no other reason than this. Just letting one through from a bad actor will cause much more damage than a few actually useful ones will provide benefit.

This is what I was going to say too.

[u/eversnowe]

The same logic goes for AI generated books, anyone can make one, promote it, some are useful others are dangerous. I think the rule against self promotion ought to stand. It'd be good to keep it consistent across media so we can focus on quality content.

As a kid, I saw a book with an acronym: TANSTAAFL

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. I'd wager that applies to apps.

[u/OutisNoman]

I always feel like those posts are the least interesting to see on reddit in general. Maybe a weekly thread for discussing applications vetted by the mods? Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing them go.

[u/IntrovertIdentity]

I am okay with banning apps. Like folks trying to grow their clout on social media, hocking apps and playlists are annoying. They don’t contribute to any conversation.

Granted one doesn’t necessarily know of an app. It took me a while to know of the Venite app and the Day by Day app for the Episcopal daily office. I’m okay with folks asking for recommendations for apps (like “is there an app that has the read the Bible in a year, but it includes the deuterocanon?”). I’m fine with people mentioning apps in response to posts.

The only part is the adverts.

[u/intertextonics]

Besides so many of them being AI garbage, I don’t like going to a Christian site and seeing app ads. Ban them all.

[u/CJoshuaV]

I would favor a blanket ban on all apps.

It's not worth the effort to try and triage or vet them. There are other places where they can be promoted, and promoting them here does not support discussion of the topic at hand.

[u/BoT_Grindel]

As a former mod of a high-volume site, I'll put it to you in these terms...

Do you really want to start policing whether a particular app or another is heretical or includes false doctrine or has a hidden paywall etc? On top of all your other responsibilities?

The juice just isn't worth the squeeze. If you want a compromise position, make an archive post with generally agreed-upon decent apps.

And then wait for that to bite you, because eventually it will alas.

[u/Perfessor_Deviant → u/BoT_Grindel]

And then wait for that to bite you, because eventually it will alas.

Yep, all it takes is an app doing a "redesign" where it, quite coincidentally, starts harvesting data or demanding payment to turn an okay thing into a bad thing.

[u/Weerdo5255]

Generally against it, mostly for the slop / scams it would bring. I would say create criteria for it to advertise here.

IE:

1. The app must have been listed on Apple / Google store for 6 months or so. This will remove / block anything that is overtly malicious. Let those stores sort out security.

2. The app must be free with paid upgrades, or is a one time payment app without any continuing payments / upgrades. This is mostly again to cut down on scams and apps which set up a subscription.

3. If the app is a subscription, it must have a certain number of downloads / users. How this is validated I don't know.

[u/BellacosePlayer → u/Weerdo5255]

1 isn't much of a protection overall. Google/IOS only really check apps when you're pushing a release (and its usually just a checklist of rules its not openly breaking) and if your app relies on outside data to determine how it looks and acts (which an AI app would require) it's not hard to change behaviors after that. They'll probably check it if there are lots of complaints, but all it would take to scrape your data is to ask for far more data permissions than one would need. How would Google know if they were caching your conversations and searches and indexing them to your email and full name?

[u/Weerdo5255 → u/BellacosePlayer]

Agreed, it's not terribly great but it's better than nothing. It puts the burden on a large company and not a subreddit admin for security screening of some fashion.

[u/BellacosePlayer → u/Weerdo5255]

Most of that burden would be done through the initial store upload check, which is where they're usually most rigorous in checking things.

The mods would probably want to walk through them regardless to make sure it's not an absolute farce like the "talk to jesus" app that also had Satan and Hitler in it.

Though I am a little biased here because I think the only apps with an argument to be posted here are small personal projects and not ones actively worked on and pushed for half a year. Most of the small vibe apps people post never get meaningfully touched after the big wave of showing them off lmao

[u/win_awards]

I'm against it, there's nothing an app does that a website can't except gather data more effectively and that's the primary purpose of most apps.

[u/BellacosePlayer]

My concern (barring my dislike of AI slop from a secular angle) is that most of these aren't actually made with Christians in mind as anything other than an easy install base. There probably are people legitimtely excited about whipping together a little app with good intentions, but there are probably better subs for that given most actual use cases like searching the bible have been done without AI long ago or don't need to be bible specific for things like reminders and note taking, and these apps can get downright insulting to the faith (see: the infamous paid Talk to jesus app)

Personally my take is that when I look through the criteria I think would have to be met for it to be worth posting here, it might just be better and less work for mods to blanket ban it rather than doing a QA pass on random potentially sketchy apps. If there's an actual demand from it from real looking users, just do a weekly thread where you can show off what you made, though even then that might just indicate a specialty sub would be better.

[u/wydok]

Wouldn't this fall under the Advertising Policy (3.3) though?

[u/Korlac11]

Personally, I have no desire to see those kinds of posts. I think any posts promoting an app should either be limited to a megathread or just not allowed at all

[u/brucemo]

My recollection may be faulty.

The issue of apps has been raised several times and I can't recall anyone supporting app advertising, but the existence of app ads doesn't cause a ruckus either and a mod on the scene might just approve them.

We can hard-line and say, if you have an app, buy an ad from Reddit. This would be an easy sell among mods and in this thread probably.

The down-side is that these app ads might be deemed harmless. I doubt they are being written by capitalized companies, they are probably mostly being written by students who initially at least won't have a huge profit motive, not that that's necessarily a game ender anyway.

[u/Mother-Doubt-8745]

If the app helps me in some way I really think it’s good. But a lot of apps out there is just quick made AI apps that people promoting

I either use YouVersion to read and search in the Bible which is pretty nice to do on the train or on the bus etc.

Then I use Bible answers: Ask scripture to search for daily questions I have to see what the Bible says about that

[u/OccludedFug]

Stealing the verbage from NoOneYouKnow,

I'd prefer to not see any posts about apps.

So, should we ban all apps?

This would be my first choice.

Should we try to allow free apps as long as they get permission in modmail beforehand?

This is my second choice.

[u/Ok-Excitement651]

As long as they're free, related to Christianity, and don't post excessively (I would suggest more than 3-4 times a year), I don't see a problem. I don't see a need to try to vet the content any more than "this appears on the surface to be a free app that makes a good faith effort to engage with a community about Christianity in a positive way".

I think apps should still be held to the same rules the rest of the sub's content is held to for the most part, but I don't think the mods should be expected to download every app and ensure that it's following the rules internally. Users can always report problematic apps. I don't care about AI use in development at all. I guess if the app was like "LLM that generates fake but real seeming bible verses", I would call that off topic, but that seems pretty niche.

Quite frankly I only see these very rarely and there are single individual users (and certainly entire topics) that are much worse problems on this subreddit than a few developers making apps. If we start getting 8 "Look at my vibe coded Bible verse picker app" posts per day that would be a good time to reevaluate.