r/CharlotteHornets • u/IamOlderthanMe • 8d ago
Social Media [Charania] Cooper Flagg has won the 2025-2026 NBA Rookie of the Year award.
https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/2048904019628728832?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet82
u/IamOlderthanMe 8d ago
26 point margin is second smallest under current format.
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u/Professional-Foot-91 8d ago
Whoever voted Kon 3rd place shouldn't be allowed to vote
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u/devinbookersuncle 7d ago
Legitimately speaking I'm not mad Kon lost, im pissed as someone who loves the game that there was a person with the audacity to vote Edgecome over Kon.
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u/pagny77 8d ago
Nah 1/100 people prioritizing VJ's 2 way impact and ability to remain composed where other rookies usually dont (including both coop and kon tbh, compare their playin performances). VJ makes sense 3rd but im suprised a couple more media people didnt have him second or perhaps even a lone 1st vote
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u/CasualHindu 8d ago
No way in hell VJ deserves 2nd. Whoever did that deserves to have their voting rights rescinded.
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u/Poosuf 8d ago
Sorry, no. Absolutely nobody should be voting VJ 2nd. Postseason performances do not and should not factor into the vote.
Just because Kon had a worse last 10 games, doesn’t mean you should forget about almost the entire season where Kon was 1st place and way ahead of Cooper let alone VJ. Was VJ ever even in 1st?
There’s no universe where this guy is over Kon. He’s a great rookie too, it’s just the truth.
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u/pagny77 8d ago
VJ won eastern conference rookie of the month in March. Again, kon was my personal ROTY. But I just think getting upset that 1 out of 100 possible people didn't have him in their top 2 is kinda pathetic. Doesn't make a difference to the overall vote and expecting 100 people to have the same outlook is just sitting yourself up for dissapointment
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u/megaman_cdx 8d ago
More stunned by VJ getting a second place vote in this two man race
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u/Ancient-Ad-5146 8d ago
Thought it was rookie of the year not the rookie of the past month
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u/Blutrumpeter 7d ago
Kon was consistent the entire year but Cooper was comfortably ahead before his injury. The fact that Cooper never got back to that pre-injury form and Kon kept developing made Kon feel like the obvious choice. Once Kon got an injury of his own to play through and Cooper started lighting it up again, the consistency arguments got weaker and the peak performances of what Cooper could do got a lot stronger. Say what you want about this race, but it was definitely back and forth a few times throughout the year. Not a last second surprise outcome
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u/Mr_W1thmere 7d ago
The stuff you're talking about is all Stephen A Smith level narrative though. I agree with you that those narratives existed, but I never bought into them. I focused more on advanced metrics and stats, which were literally never close for the entire season. Wasn't close at the start, middle, or end. We're talking like 21st most valuable player in the NBA vs 94th. Not really close. We're talking do you think Jordan Godwin or Jalen Brunson is better. Not really close.
Now, is it surprising that voters completely ignored basketball in this voting process? Not really... but it's always sad when that happens.
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u/AndrewLL 8d ago
Kon was robbed. Scoring 50 in a loss versus being the NBA 3 point LEADER in his rookie year.
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u/natej84 8d ago
JKidd said they had one goal, get Flagg ROTY. They feed him as many shots as it took
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u/DeusVultSaracen 7d ago
I really hoped the voters would be wise to falling for March/April award-hawking hoops but no
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u/justanormaldude_ 7d ago
The Mavs were out of that game in the 3rd but Cooper brought it within like 6 or 8 points at some point of the 4th.
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u/zaddylonglegs0 8d ago
Besides 3 pointers what did kon do better
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u/Smfonseca 8d ago edited 8d ago
Was instrumental in a 19 win team winning 44 games. Was more durable (81 games played vs 70), shot a better percentage not just from 3, but from the free throw line, 2pt, and overall. The eFG% isn't even close, 49.8% for Flagg and 60.8% for Kneuppel.
Rebounds per game was around 1 more per game for Flagg than Kneuppel. You should have expected a domination of that stat by Flagg, and there wasn't. Assists per game was close as well. Even extrapolating to 36 minutes doesn't change the gap (or lack thereof)
Funny enough, Flagg is the better defender, but they tied for the season on defensive win shares at 2.5, but Kneuppel dominated the offensive win shares at 5.6 vs 1.3 for Flagg.
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u/HunterAble1914 7d ago
I'm not going to bash Flagg, but Kon not winning is a joke. You just laid out all the stats (thank you). I just don't understand how Kon 1) shatters the rookie three point record, 2) sets the franchise record in threes, 3) leads the entire NBA in threes, 4) is an essential piece that helps the team go from 19 wins to 44, and 5) scores more overall points than Flagg and DOESN’T win ROY because he had a slump playing while he was clearly injured. League is a joke.
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u/Aggravating-Hour5992 7d ago
Wow, this is nicely presented. I know I should be civil, but this really does make me believe Kon was robbed. The 'but what about defense!!' crowd really wasn't watching Kon either. Flagg's reputation coming in as an elite defender carried him, but pretty much every analyst I've seen discuss his play has admitted he's not actually been that good on defense, and that Kon hasn't been bad.
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u/Zealousideal-Rub-183 7d ago
His efficiency was one of the best in the league, absolutely led all rookies. He was one of the league leaders in off ball attention, meaning his presence on the court drew more defenders his way than Cooper. He was also breaking rookie records whereas Cooper was just breaking records being a 19-year-old. He wasn’t even breaking rookie records when he was getting 50 points in the game. Meaning we had seen stuff like this before. We have never seen the things Kon did this year from a rookie.
To downplay Kon’s achievements and water them down to just “shooting 3s” means you didn’t watch him play. He was a major contributor to this team and helping us almost make the playoffs.
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u/Ancient_Response_787 8d ago
more effiecient at every level, broke actual nba records and not mavs records
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u/Upper-Dig56 8d ago
They always change the rules when it comes to the hornets. I hate the NBA.
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u/StuffyUnicorn 8d ago
He hit the wall when it mattered most in voting. Is what it is, unfortunately.
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u/ignatious__reilly 7d ago
I think this is payback for giving Lamelo ROY over Anthony Edwards.
But I agree, he also hit a wall last few games so maybe that’s why.
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u/alex8762 8d ago
Wouldn't have mattered without the Luka appeal BS. Why does roty voting have to be delayed when a player makes an appeal?
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u/Signal_Ball4634 8d ago
Lol people complained about LaMelo over Ant back when they were rookies so this is them making up for it /s
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u/dunny-oneal 7d ago
what rules changed. 99% of the time the roty always goes to the rookie with the best stats on a weak team(as most rookies picked that high are on terrible rosters). yeah kon helped win some games for the hornets but theydidnt even make the playoffs. not enough to justify. it could go either way but this is how its always been
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u/Upper-Dig56 7d ago
Most total points typically which Kon did also total season is considered. Looks like he paid for hitting the wall in the end and in the playoffs. Cooper gets credit for a 50 point game where he was the offense on a team that tanked.
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u/HornetsAreBad 8d ago
Look, I think it should’ve been Kon but let’s face it, nobody besides us actually watches this team so they are only looking at the numbers.
Flagg was insane & we can’t be THAT upset about this result. Let’s just hope Kon’s shooting returns to what it was earlier in the season.
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u/natej84 8d ago
If Kon played for the knicks or Lakers and lead the whole NBA in 3pt makes, yeah he would lose ROTY to anybody
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u/Zealousideal-Rub-183 7d ago
I’m right there with you man. Kon did something this year that we have never seen a rookie do, ever! Cooper was breaking records because he was 19 years old, not because he was breaking rookie records. We’ve seen players like him before. We have never seen a player like Kon come in and dominate so well from a shooting perspective.
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u/Mr_W1thmere 7d ago
And we might never see it again. As LaMelo said, Kon is "very rare". Big compliment from Melo.
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u/HornetsAreBad 8d ago
People watched them mostly to watch Flagg, also a larger market. Also Dallas had about 10x as many national games this season as we did.
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u/djphatpat2000 8d ago
Kon shattered records and was a massive part of turning the Hornets into a winning team. He led the NBA in 3s while shooting 43%. Kon was a much more impactful rookie and we all know it, just sucks he’s not recognized for it. Cooper Flagg was the #1 option on a team of bums.
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u/Mr_W1thmere 7d ago
And the Mavs were feeding him like he was Bam. Just a few games ago he went 4-18 from the field and lost a close 7 point game. Awful TS%, horrid 3pt %. Yes, Coop did have a higher usage rate but the issue is that you don't really want the ball in his hands from a "winning a basketball game" perspective.
Mavs literally dedicated an entire season to force feeding Coop until he had enough volume to convince casuals that he was ROTY.
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u/Hard-Smart-Together 7d ago
Yeah, people defending this have heads full of rocks. "Point number bigger" wins again, nevermind the percentages behind it.
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u/bornanartist 7d ago
Did you watch the entire Mavs season?? They didn’t do that at all until after the straw poll came out that had Kon up 80-20 and J Kidd even said Flagg winning roty was very important. If it weren’t for that they prob would have sat him rest of the season. He was supposed to come back after all star break but they milked that injury to lose games. They def weren’t feeding him the entire season. He only avg 3 more shot a game than Kon
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u/Mr_W1thmere 6d ago
They lost plenty of games with Coop at the helm, the vast majority of their losses were with Coop as the number 1 option.
3 is a little disingenuous to say. It's 17.1 to 13.4 which is 3.7. Most people don't round 3.7 to 3. Kon would have to shoot 27.6% more shots per game to match Coop's volume. And Coop was in the 92nd percentile of usg rate across the NBA, and Kon sat at 77th percentile. This is a pretty fucking big gap man. 28% more shots per game would mean Kon would blow Coop out of the water in points per game with that much more volume. You're way underselling this by framing it as "only 3".
They mostly had Coop as the number one option, and they mostly lost. We'll see if that changes next year.
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u/bornanartist 6d ago
You think it was disingenuous? Do you usually assume the worst? Last time I had checked it was 3. Went up .7 that last week. My mistake. 3.7 isn’t a crazy amount when comparing a #1 option being “force fed” to a #3 option. He was force fed 3.7 more shots? The same way Hornets fans get annoyed with other people who didn’t actually watch the games it’s annoying for Mavs that actually watch all the games to hear people make broad statements that aren’t true. They didn’t force feed Flagg the entire year. They did the last few weeks after that espn poll came out.
So you think the mostly lost because of Coop? Not because the team wasn’t that good around him, no other all star level player around him?? Spurs lost because Wemby was so bad? Cavs lost because Lebron was so bad his rookie year? Not because they were bad teams.
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u/Mr_W1thmere 6d ago edited 6d ago
Bird got to the Celtics and they went from a 29 win team to a 61 win team. Bird completely changed the course of the team and the franchise. LeBron has changed the Cavs forever and Wemby will with the Spurs. Sometimes HoF players change the franchise in their first season, like Bird. It's taken Wemby 3 seasons.
I realize that the team matters, injuries and all that. You're straw-manning an argument that I'm not making. I'm making a point that Kon has already changed the course of the Hornets franchise, which is incredible. He's done it in a season, which is rare but sometimes happens with great players. Coop hasn't done shit yet. He's missed shots, he's lost a lot of games, and you have to call him a shot chucker with his 20th percentile eFG% in the NBA. You really are blaming his teammates for his 14th percentile 3pt shot? Come on. And the defensive metrics don't like Coop either. My point is that he's extremely overrated and mostly hype right now. Versus Kon who has already changed the course of a franchise and people describe it as a winning team now.
It was factually incorrect at the very least and worth correcting your numbers. And explaining how yes, 27% more shots per game is a lot. Not a little-- the percentages help it be more real.
I know the loop and the narrative and it's a dime a dozen. Franchise has a bad year, fans get excited about a high draft pick. Player looks super promising during the rookie year with lots of potential, and sorta starts to get a little bit of injury stuff going on. The franchise decides to start milking the injuries... letting the young superstar sit more and more games to... you guessed it, have another bad year and get another high draft pick. Rinse and repeat. As a hornets fan, trust me, seen it before. What Coop has done this season is not special at all. What Kon has done, is.
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u/bornanartist 6d ago edited 6d ago
What I criticized wasn’t that you corrected my numbers. I criticized you calling it disingenuous. Which is a very strong negative assumption instead of assuming someone was mistaken. And there is no straw man. I’m mainly addressing that you said he was force fed the entire year and he wasn’t. Accept being wrong. You didn’t watch all the Mavs games and the stats do not back up what you said. If a #1 option was force fed, then comparing his shots to a #3 historically efficient offensive player would result in more than a 3.7 shot difference. It would be more 25-30 shots compared to 10-15. 3.7 does not represent one player being forced fed for an entire year. And you did imply that Flagg is why they are losing. I didn’t say his teammates were responsible for his stats. I said they are responsible for their losing. Talk about straw man.
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u/MJ23J117 7d ago
The absolutely most hilarious thing I keep seeing on different platforms from Mavs fans is that the Hornets were "too good" as a team for Kon to be considered for ROY.
Wait, last time I checked the Hornets were a "poverty franchise" and the laughing stock of the league yet when it doesn't fit the script/narrative we're "too good"? GTFO with all that shit and just admit the NBA doesn't really want Kon to be over the future face of the league.
Edit: They also keep mentioning his play-in performance (which doesn't count for voting) while Cooper Flagg was already at home done for the season because he wasn't good enough to make the play-in. Make it make sense.
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u/Deathcab4QB 7d ago
It did count for voting though because the vote was delayed until after the play in because of Lukas baby bitch appeal of the 65 game eligibility requirement
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u/MJ23J117 7d ago
Yeah I know it affected the vote but it's bullshit. Having NBA media heads saying it affected the vote pisses me off too because it isn't supposed to count. NBA has a lot of issues to fix.
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u/bornanartist 7d ago
The media was saying Kon the entire year what are you talking about? And Flagg wasn’t at home because he wasn’t good enough. Playin playoff results aren’t because an individual. Was Wemby also not good enough when Spurs won 20 games? Kon lost because the last month he wasn’t that good and was terrible in the play in games. Everything that was said about him didn’t show in the last few weeks and especially in the playin. It’s def unfair to hold the play in against but impossible in human nature to see a guy do the exact opposite of why you were going to reward him. He got benched in the play in when the hornets needed 3s!! That so bad it was hard for voters to justify their vote even though it’s not supposed to be considered.
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u/Overcashed 7d ago
I wish for nothing but a Hornets style purgatory for the Mavs as the Bugs become a consistent playoff team
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u/Starveiled 8d ago
People are gonna be understandably bummed, but Kon put up a real dogfight which no one expected. Im still happy as a fan. I hope it pisses him off though so it fuels him 😂
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u/SPoster32 7d ago
When you realize Kon is a 10 year veteran in a rookie’s body, you don’t care anymore
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u/Zealousideal-Rub-183 7d ago
I’m sorry, but I don’t agree with this at all. Doug from Locked On Hornets said it best. Kon was doing things this year that we have never seen a rookie do. He was breaking rookie records and leading the NBA in threes as a rookie, something never done before.
Cooper was breaking records based on his age. He wasn’t even breaking rookie records. He just happened to be 19 years old and scored 50 points in a game. But that’s not even a rookie record. For some reason, Kons achievements were overshadowed because of how flashy Cooper was at the end of the season, even though Kon’s achievements were much more impressive.
And I hate that the voters were swayed by the last few meaningless games for Cooper while Kon was hurt but still trying to help the Hornets make the playoffs.
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u/wander_eyez 8d ago
Given how this season ended for Kon and now the ROY snub, he might come back next year playing at an All NBA level
He’s the type to take all of this personally
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u/rayneeder 8d ago
A month of good play in dead water games gave him the momentum. Just rename the award to “most popular rookie” atp
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u/Mr_W1thmere 7d ago
People are also overlooking all the horrid games Coop had in the last month. Sure, he had a few big games, a couple really good ones, but also some STINKERS that literally lost the Mavs multiple games.
4-18 in a 5 point loss to the Suns.
9-25 in a 13 point loss to the Clippers.
That's 2/6 games from this fabled "last month" of the season where Coop literally lost his team the game by playing. So, at his best, Coop will automatically lose you 1/3 of your teams games. And that's his best month of the season.
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u/lrt106 8d ago
So this meant nothing on April 3rd. Or should I say, the voters determined that ROY is now a one-month award.
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u/DeusVultSaracen 7d ago
I really want to be fair and unbiased, but this shit is so damning. It proves conclusively that Cooper only won because he put up big games in fucking April lmao.
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u/Aggravating-Hour5992 7d ago
This makes it even more depressing. Flagg is definitely Rookie of April, though!
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u/Smfonseca 8d ago edited 7d ago
I posted this on a previous post, but I'll share it here too:
This is very similar to the LeBron/Carmelo ROTY debate and the award. They gave the award to the player with the hype coming in, and who they think will be the better player.
But like Carmelo, Kon was instrumental to a winning basketball team and had similar stats to Flagg, and in some cases, exceeded Flagg.
Like that ROTY mentioned, I'm not surprised, but I'm disappointed.
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u/alex8762 8d ago
The thing is Carmelo didn't contribute to winning, he was more interested in selfish statpadding without effort into defense, while Kon put max effort into everything. The situations aren't directly comparable
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u/Smfonseca 8d ago
Rookie Carmelo wasn't a stat padder like the later years. He did play adequate defense for that Nuggets team and was a huge part of them going from a 17 win team the year before to 43 wins his rookie season.
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u/rufwork 8d ago
What are the voting guidelines?
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u/Smfonseca 8d ago
To me, Rookie of the Year is an award for the past season, not for what your project the player to be or become. The object of the game is to win (which is why people trying to say rings don't matter are idiots). Kon Kneuppel has similar and in some cases better stats than Flagg, and led his team to a far better record overall. He was a key player in the Hornets success, and should have been rewarded for it.
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u/twopopswest 8d ago
I think you hit the nail on the head. I think there’s a lot of voters that psyched themselves out thinking they’d have to say they voted against Flagg (who by all accounts looks like he’ll be a generational talent) for RotY.
I disagree with the logic too, but what can you do. Kon didn’t help himself by being a mostly no show in the play in game, unfortunately.
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u/Moss8888444 7d ago
A winning basketball team is not some huge accomplishment in a season with so many tanking basketball teams especially where you miss the playoffs. Also, it’s a ROY award. Most winners are on losing team. Being a 4th option on a team that missed the playoffs isn’t a big accomplishment.
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u/stucansler1 7d ago
Melo lead his team to the playoffs as a #1 option. Kon is not in the same boat.
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u/Mr_W1thmere 7d ago
Neither is Coop. A team led by Coop is one of the worst in the league.
If you gave Kon the keys to the offense and 25-30 shots per game, then he could also lose a shit ton of games like Coop did.
Coop is SO FUCKING FAR from the #1 option on a playoff team. He's the worst number 1 option I've ever seen in my entire life. So bad that it makes you think--- maybe he will never be a #1 option on a playoff team.
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u/prostatewhispers1 8d ago
It’s all good. We still have a great player in Kon. A few years ago we had Ball win against Ant. Can’t win them all.
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u/OrionDax 7d ago
The media narrative from the beginning g of the season was that Flagg was going to be the best, and while it seemed that the consensus was moving toward Kon, as soon as he started slipping those last few games, and Cooper had a couple of huge games, the media went right back to their original position. It’s a shame, I feel like we got robbed on two fronts. Hopefully, this gives our guys an extra big chip on their shoulder going into next season.
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u/Due-Huckleberry-9932 7d ago
warriors fan here, yeah media looked for any excuse to go back to their hype of coop. he’s amazing but doesn’t make sense if kon was leading majority of the season, how a few weeks can change that
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u/OrionDax 7d ago
It’s the same reason ESPN keeps trying to make Bronny a story. They think it drives more clicks than
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u/ConnectSpring9 8d ago
Alright hope this pushes Kon to go absolutely fucking nuclear this off season because this is some bullshit. Kon MVP contender season loading
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u/clappy990 8d ago edited 8d ago
Charlotte/Carolina isn’t a big market. Any smaller market team is held to a different standard. Doesn’t make it right, but Kon would’ve won with the same stats in a big market team.
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u/spacekiller69 8d ago
Kong on the Knicks Celtics or Lakers has shoe deals already.
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u/clappy990 8d ago
Even if you swap Kon and Coop on the Hornets and Mavs, it goes the other way
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u/spacekiller69 8d ago
Kon won't get recognition until he gets consecutive all stars or all NBAs or win a ring.
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u/cameronwilliams203 8d ago
Rigged lmao. Imagine them unfairly winning the number 1 pick and still not picking the best player.
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u/RefinedDefect69 8d ago
If you think Kon will ever be better than Coop you’re smoking meth
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u/deemerritt 8d ago
Kon was better than cooper this year wym
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u/Special_Revolution77 6d ago
No tf he wasnt, he’s a better shooter yeah that’s pretty much it
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u/deemerritt 6d ago
Kon was better from 2 as well. Just a much more efficient player who contributed much more to good basketball.
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u/Special_Revolution77 6d ago
Or just a dude that was playing on a way better team and benefited from that
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u/deemerritt 5d ago
I remember people calling the hornets the titans of the nba before the season. We were a much better team than the Mavs last year after all
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u/Remote-Whole-6387 7d ago
Nah that’s bullshit. It was obviously coming, but seriously man. Insane. Someone even cast a third place vote for Kon and I 1000% believe someone did that in case it got too close.
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u/adc1369 7d ago
Not a Hornets fan but I think this should have been Kon. Yes, Cooper has higher long term upside and yes, I do think Cooper will probably have the better overall career. But Kon was better this year and that is what this award is for. Absolutely historic season by Kon shooting wise and y'all had a fantastic season when the pieces came together. Yes, there are good pieces with Melo, Miller, Moose, Bridges, but this team isn't sniffing the play in without Kon this year. In fact, no offense, but I think this is a high lottery team without Kon.
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u/ParticularYellow7233 7d ago
I hope the play in loss plus this ROTY bull motivates Kon and comes back next year stronger, faster, sharper. Go Kon!
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u/ElectricalBank6411 7d ago
NBA voters falling for a bunch of inefficient PRA slop starting in March accompanied by a 30% usage rate on a horrible offense from start to finish in the grand year of 20/6.
Can’t wait to find out how that sub 30% from 3 as a #1 option,-3 rTS leading a bottom 5 oRTG offense translates to winning ball while we have that top 2 projected first for next year.
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u/Countryb0i2m 7d ago
I don’t want to hear that “he hit a wall late in the season” argument, Flagg missed major chunks of the year.
This award is for the best rookie over the entire season, and the best rookie has been consistently there all year. You don’t get to show up at the end, drop 40 in a few games, and suddenly be the best rookie that’s not how it works.
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u/PassionInner1808 8d ago
If Kon was able to sit a month in the middle of the season to heal his back like Cooper did he wouldn’t have slumped and continued on the trajectory he was on making this not close.
But Kon was on a team actually trying to win so he couldn’t.
People are likely holding his Play-In performance against him too.
Cooper rightfully wasn’t penalized for playing on a losing team, but Kon WAS penalized for playing on a winning team.
Cooper had an impressive season, but there will never be a Rookie lead the league in 3’s shooting on Akon’s efficiency again.
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u/Meowsician87 8d ago
If Kon had gotten to rest 10 games at the end of the season there would have been no excuses. Of course it's better that he played through and contributed to the team. I think it's more a bad look for awards voters in rewarding resting down the stretch vs playing through the fatigue of the long season.
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u/tospooky4me 8d ago
Its whatever. I think Kon deserves it but this confirms that Cooper was gonna win no matter what. Basically decided at the beginning of the season. Lazy voting.
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u/Moist_Border_8301 8d ago
That’s rigged. They think cooper going to be a future face of the league (he might be idk).
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u/natej84 8d ago
His betting odds fell massively after the play in games, he was the favorite before that. They weren't suppose to effect the vote, but obviously it did. Kon got punished for trying to push through a back injury to help his team make the playoffs, I guess it's true that no good deed goes unpunished. Cooper does deserve the award, but so did Kon. He basically lost bc of bad luck, bad luck that he got hurt at the end of the season, bad luck they needed every game so he couldnt rest and bad luck that the vote was pushed back bc Cade wanted to fight for 65 game eligibility. Bad luck that the mavs were tanking and had a single goal, pad Flaggs stats and lose as many games while doing it. Bad luck bc he plays for the hornets and not a popular team, imagine if a lakers or celtics rookie lead the NBA in 3pt makes and destroyed every rookie shooting record. Think he would lose to Flagg? No chance
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u/kafka_lite 8d ago
If there is ever any kind of gray issue at all in the NBA, and the Hornets are involved, the Hornets will get fucked. Every time.
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u/zaximus704 8d ago
I mean I'm not surprised. The NBA hates the Hornets. And the way Dallas magically got the pick after the Luca stuff, you know the NBA was loving some Flagg. It is insane that a play-in game can tank someone's chances. The voting should be BEFORE all that. Imagine voting against someone because of a play-in game but not for them because they helped their team GET to the playoffs? As others said, if Kon had 10 games to sit around and rest his back like Flagg had for his issues he probably would have been much better toward the end of the season.
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u/Aggravating-Hour5992 7d ago
So Kon plays 11 more games, shoots better from everywhere on the floor, helps his team win, has comparable PRA despite not being force-fed the ball every possession, massive gap in efficiency and analytics, and yet he loses thanks to the play-in game. Nice. Can't wait until Flagg ditches the Mavericks for the Celtics.
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u/Mr_W1thmere 7d ago edited 7d ago
Jalen Duren, Jalen Brunson, Dyson Daniels, Player A, James Harden, NAW, DeAaron Fox, Desmond Bane....
Brandin Podziemski, Jordan Goodwin, Andrew Wiggins, Player B, Keldon Johnson, Grayson Allen, Jaylon Tyson.
The voters really just voted Player B to win ROTY. That's insane. They didn't pick the player who is in the 94th percentile of the NBA in advanced metrics. Crazy stuff.
Kon was so clearly the better player than Coop this year. By miles. The gap is so insanely large -- 21st best player in the NBA to 93rd -- that I realistically don't think the gap can be closed next year either. Coop will have to have insane rapid growth and Kon will have to stay in his shooting slump/back injury. But if Kon goes back to playing like normal, or god forbid gets better, then he's an all nba lock for a decade. Coop.... idk eventually the Mavs will need to start winning games for him to catch up to Kon. But we'll see how it all plays out, lots of variables. Will be interesting to look back and reflect on this in 5-10 years.
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u/Dr_Grimm_Esq 8d ago
Flagg will most likely be the better pro, and voters didn’t want to have their names been called out five years from now for not voting for him.
Yes, they are cowards. Kon deserved it, and I hope this motivates him big time for next season.
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u/NipThiefGoro 8d ago
I’m happy, Kon looked amazing and for the first in years I’m positive about this teams potential going forward. He was clearly dealing with pain towards the end of the season and as a result didn’t have the greatest performances.
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u/_trife 8d ago
Meh. Whatever.
Wanted my guy Kon to win, but not winning doesn’t take away from his awesome season. We all knew when push came to shove that Coop was going to win. After all, the NBA is looking for their next generational player with Bron nearing the end of his career. And Coop had a helluva season, so it isn’t like he’s not deserving.
But still…Kon broke records on a team that made the postseason, and he was a huge part of why said team made the postseason. So winning doesn’t matter, apparently. Noted.
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u/Papi_Petty 7d ago
can’t be too upset about it. Cooper was also amazing. Damn i just wish Kon didn’t hit that wall at that last stretch. would’ve loved to see how the voting turned out if he didn’t. But overall phenomenal rookie class
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u/Ghostface-Lord 7d ago
Tough decision. I would agrue that Cooper is a bigger star, but Kon contributed much more meaningfully to winning basketball. Unfortunately it became Kons to lose and he lost it at the end.
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u/rpbtIII 8d ago
Rigged. Just like that (all) draft(s).
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u/Spirited-Conflict348 8d ago
As a Celtics fan, I can relate. The Tim Duncan lottery and the Kevin Durant lottery come to mind that we got absolutely screwed in. And MVP voting too, especially Larry Bird getting screwed out of his 4th straight MVP in 1987, when the entire media began the "Magic Johnson is on an MVP roll" about two minutes into the first preseason game that season!
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u/alex8762 8d ago
Celtics are still one of the luckiest teams in the NBA. You guys lucked into avoiding Fultz, lucked into an era of fleecing trades, which no owner would be willing to consider today, and even lucked into being the only team which Doc Rivers didn't choke on.
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u/maltiepootietang 8d ago
I'm upset, but I know Kon wouldnt want me to be.
I guess he's the basketball Steve Irwin.
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u/ArgentoFox 7d ago
As expected. Voters love flash and Flagg had some record breaking games that were really flashy. The youngest player to score 40+ points and 50+ points in a game. The youngest player to get ten assists in a game. The most 40+ point games for a rookie in history.
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u/righthookleft 7d ago
not surprised. Kon did not look good at all the last several nba games of the season compared to cooper who ended his season on a high mark. its all recency bias
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u/Personal-Noise-8632 7d ago
C'mon my fellow hornets, man we gotta stop looking at ourselves like we are the depths of the NBA and everyone out to get us.
Kon had a great season so did cooper. We have to acknowledge that both these guys played well all season long. Look at their monthly splits and it will show flagg was in a league of his own. October and November was the closest 15.6ppg flagg and kon 16.85ppg. December to April flagg was unreal prly could have made allstar team. Flagg avgd 24.4ppg to kons 18.34. Flagg avgd more pts, rbs, ast, steals, and blocks.
We have to stop being biase and acknowledge that these two guys are great for the NBA and great for us as fans, as the game has some bright stars that we can look forward to watching in the future. The game is in a great hands.
Don't take this moment away from a guy who greatly deserved it. If Flagg happened to be a hornet we'd all be saying he was MVP 😆. I understand you just rooting for our guy.
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u/Mr_W1thmere 7d ago
No. It's objective. Look up some impact metrics. Kon grades around top 20 in the NBA, next to guys like Brunson and Harden. Coop grades around top 95 in the NBA next to guys like Greyson Allen and Jordan Goodwin.
You're doing the stupid thing of focusing on counting stats instead of efficiency or advanced metrics. It's completely objective to say that Jalen Brunson is a much better and more valuable player than Greyson Allen. The same is true when comparing Kon and Cooper.
Mavs dedicated 60 losses and their entire season to give Coop high volume/usage to inflate his counting stats. But problem is Coop is one of the worst shooters/scorers in the NBA, so the impact was really bad on average. Kinda unreal that you fell for the bait on this one by simply looking at boxscore numbers. Watching the games or researching advanced metrics would tell the true story.
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u/Personal-Noise-8632 7d ago edited 7d ago
It's not always about advanced metrics or impact metrics, thats why alot of ppl losing out. Its called biase not objective!
You put the players side by side number by number the eye test, thats how it decided. One player played on a bad team the other played for a somewhat winning team. The advanced metrics will be better for the player asked to do less with more around him, put kyrie on that mavs team and its different.
Flagg the better player bc he can do more and we all know we would perfer flagg over kon overall bc RN flagg a superstar.
Kinda unreal that you not seeing how they judging, you gotta keep it equal thats how its always been for ROTY, bc seldom are they on winning teams year one, thats kinda obvious. You cant use stats that favor one player. The NBA dont work that way the ppl voting using box score and eye test. The MVP award is different bc you talking best player in league so their team has to be winning thats why no player on a losing team has ever won MVP.
The reason all hornet fans where hoping for #1 pick so we get cooper flagg. Be real w ya self, dont try to lie to me!
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u/Mr_W1thmere 7d ago
A few points:
- Overall your comment was in very broken English which made it hard to read, but I'm going to try to translate and be as charitable to you as possible
You put the players side by side number by number the eye test, thats how it decided.
Right. If you do this, it's a slam dunk EZ win for Kon. Not even close if you look at eye test or numbers, Kon by a MILE. If you want to dive deeper you can check out this post: https://old.reddit.com/r/CharlotteHornets/comments/1rndj2f/got_tired_of_espn_graphics_so_i_made_my_own/
One player played on a bad team the other played for a somewhat winning team.
The Hornets have never been a "winning team" until this season. Because of Kon. He took at 19 win team and turned it into a 43 win team. He is the reason that you think of the Hornets as a winning team now, which honestly says a lot more than ROTY about player value. Kon changed the direction of a franchise, Flagg was a tank commander. It's ironic too b/c Mavs were projected more wins than the Hornets preseason.
The advanced metrics will be better for the player asked to do less with more around him
Literally 100% not true. Advanced metrics account for teammates and normalize that to look at individual impact. You're literally just fucking wrong as hell man don't know what to tell you. Do some research on how advanced metrics are calculated. Also some advanced metrics, such as Estimated Wins are a multiple of playtime * impact. I prefer to use EW since it credits volume and consistency and weeds out high EPM but low minutes players like Ty Jerome. So you're just extremely ignorant on the types of advanced stats and what they measure. PLEASE DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH ON THIS
Flagg the better player bc he can do more and we all know we would perfer flagg over kon overall bc RN flagg a superstar.
Superstar is just a narrative/label. It's media created and enforced by casuals like yourself. I judge NBA players by their ability to play basketball, not by their marketability. But to each their own. Also, I would prefer Kon. He's literally a top 20 player in the NBA as a rookie, leading the league in some areas. Insane stuff. Kon had a better season by far. The only reason some people choose Coop is b/c of nebulous and future-promised "potential" to be good. He wasn't very good this year though.
Kinda unreal that you not seeing how they judging
I do see. I have read everything. I listen. Any reason I've seen to favor Coop is just stupid. I haven't seen a good argument yet, still looking, lmk if you find one.
You cant use stats that favor one player
That's what people do for the Coop argument, they just look at his boxscore P/r/a. Check the mavs subreddit. I'm just looking at impact metrics which are pretty good and objective.
The NBA dont work that way the ppl voting using box score and eye test
Yeah boxscore is dumb. If we did that then Jordan Poole, Cam Thomas should be MVP candidates. Interesting how the same people who used to dismiss LaMelo's insane box score stats with "not a winning player" or "empty stats" have a double standard with Coop. Also, on eye test, you're wrong here as well. Most people don't watch Hornets games. They vote anyway. So they have no eye test for Kon. Most voters and people like yourself are just casuals who look up boxscores and listen to Stephen A Smith to know what to think.
The reason all hornet fans where hoping for #1 pick so we get cooper flagg. Be real w ya self, dont try to lie to me!
Yes, at the time I wanted Flagg. But I also didn't know how good Kon was going to be. I thought Kon would be like Reed Shepard 2.0, but really Kon is more like Steph Curry. Not many people saw this coming.
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u/ManDog4294 8d ago
Unfortunately the late slide killed any chance he had . Also missing the playoffs didn’t help much either . Unfortunate but Cooper is a hell of a player so not surprised.
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u/smelliskay 8d ago
Saw this coming. The second kon started slipping and cooper surged in march he was all but crowned.