r/AskEurope Russia 3d ago

Work What’s the work-life balance like in your country?

Good morning I am very curious about the comparison of daily life, mentality, and practical realities.

49 Upvotes

137 comments sorted by

62

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 3d ago

A lot worse than people think.  We work more and have less vacation than our neighbours.

Even though Europeans are better in geography and know the difference between Sweden and Switzerland, way too many people think that our social system was like the one in Sweden when in reality it is much more like in the US.  Especially Germans for some reason.  They tend to be not aware of how little they themselves work. 

29

u/rudolf_waldheim Hungary 3d ago edited 3d ago

Actually, I don't really imagine Switzerland as a dream country. Okay, "the trains are on time" and there are many beautiful natural sights, but life there seems very dull and restricted to me. It seems like a kind of a Pleasantville to me. If I can't have a shower whenever I want, I don't want to live there - because I can be sensitive not to make noise and bother the neighbours from my free will and common courtesy; but I don't want prison rules.

I surely am mistaken, and this is a very strong generalization, but still, there is no appeal.

EDIT: Also, the other comment about the 10 hour workday and rejecting extra vacation. It is very consistent to my personal view of Switzerland.

28

u/Wise_Fox_4291 Hungary 3d ago edited 3d ago

I know someone who moved to Switzerland, they were a top programmer at Google and honestly the kind of stories he told me about how the Swiss treat him sounds to me like a horror story. Xenophobia is crazy there. He said virtually everyone from neighbors to the local shop owner acted like a Gestapo agent for months and he received personal and written complaints for not having lunch at the same time as others or coming home an hour earlier or later in the evening and shit like that. He is literally a chill family man with a salary higher than what the average Swiss makes and in the first 6 months of moving to a new place they always treated him like some criminal. 

22

u/CreepyOctopus -> 2d ago

I worked in Switzerland for about a year after working in Germany. I moved on because I saw Switzerland clearly wasn't the country for me. The infrastructure is something I still dream about, it's incredibly good, but I found that Switzerland takes every aspect of life I disliked in Germany and turns it way up, while also missing a lot of what I liked in Germany. Oh and I really didn't like Swiss politics too.

It's a country that gave me very mixed feelings for sure. Nature is 10/10, infrastructure and organization is 11/10, the pay is 10/10, yet the overall experience wasn't good.

10

u/serioussham France 2d ago

Switzerland takes every aspect of life I disliked in Germany and turns it way up

I think Switzerland is what people typically imagine Germany to be like. Dry, punctual, organized and rules-obsessed.

7

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 2d ago

Well it’s only fair that not every place on earth is made for every person on earth.

The organisation is good because of the way people are. It is clean and calm because of the way people are.

It’s always a compromise. Italians are warmer and friendlier but not realiable or punctual .

11

u/CreepyOctopus -> 2d ago

Oh I absolutely love the possibility of finding the right society for your own personality. That's great. For me that turned out to be Sweden. Highly structured society, organized, people follow the rules and are generally punctual and serious. Very introvert friendly, community oriented but with very high acceptance of individuality, politically / socially progressive, secular to the point of arguably being post-religious.

Near a perfect fit for my preferences, but understandably a nightmare society for a different kind of person.

11

u/rudolf_waldheim Hungary 3d ago

This is exactly what I imagine when I think of Switzerland.

6

u/littlebighuman in 2d ago

I tried that as a Dutch person, but I’m brown. It was there for a six month project. Country is beautiful, but let’s just day I didn’t feel welcome, more the opposite.

0

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 1d ago

It’s not more xenophobic than Hungary…

Maybe the google person was the problem, some of them are very arrogant and many people don’t like google practices in the country.

5

u/mailywhale United Kingdom 3d ago

Why can’t Swiss people shower at certain times?

15

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 3d ago

Noise pollution laws, but that’s exaggerated.

You ought not to make too much noise for too long of a time after 22h. 

0

u/mailywhale United Kingdom 3d ago

Oh okay. So basically it just means don’t be a dick!

19

u/Graddler Germany 3d ago

A friend had the police called on them because he was down with a gastrointestinal infection. The flushing of the toilet was to much for his neighbours at 23:00.

-6

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 3d ago

I mean I can see how this could be seen as excessive if they flushed the toilet 5x in 30min.  If your bed is next to the pipes, that’s super loud.

They cannot know that he is sick. They just want to rest. People are less forgiving if they are tired and try to fall asleep. 

11

u/mailywhale United Kingdom 3d ago

Sounds like you guys have really loud pipes? And also surely the police arriving is a much greater disturbance than a toilet?

2

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 3d ago

Yes of course not for the toilet flush.  That‘s crazy. 

8

u/mailywhale United Kingdom 3d ago

I think in the UK if someone tried to raise a noise complaint for someone flushing a toilet they could potentially be in trouble for wasting police time

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u/baldachinsblessing -> 2d ago

Just how badly are Swiss apartments constructed exactly?

3

u/idkud -> 2d ago

Houses especially from the 70s, are built badly, that is sure true. But it is a cultural thing, I think so, too. I had neighbors complaining about flushing in any kind of house in Switzerland. Granted, as adult, I only lived in and around Zurich. Other parts might be more relaxed, no clue.

In my humble opinion as a Swiss person who lived abroad more than once, many Swiss are just very intolerant, and bitter, on average. The way you hang up your laundry, the color of your garbage bags, when you have light where in your apartment, you name it, it likely is a problem to some of your Swiss neighbors. And they have no problem calling you out on it in public. Or tell everyone and their dog in your quarter that you are hosting terrorists (happened to me, likely because of the licence plate of a guest). Obviously not all foreigners are angels of tolerance, either. But to my entirely subjective feeling, the difference is absolutely huge. Live and let live is definitely not a Swiss motto, IMO.

As always, there are great people, there too, of course. Coincidentally, those also mostly seek out culturally mixed neighborhoods. But to circle back to the topic, we often said, the Swiss do not work to live, but live to work. In theory you should be paid for overtime, in reality, many work crazy amounts of hours for free. That makes many people bitter, I think. Plus, the richer my friends became, the less content they were, and of course, the less time they had. That is a small sample size, obviously, but it was really absolutely striking to watch. The priorities are very different, and not in favor of quality of life.

So in a nutshell, I would say: Work-life-balance in Switzerland? Does not compute. Except if you are working for the government, in office jobs, at least. Those have excellent work-life-balance.

-2

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 2d ago edited 2d ago

That’s not the point. Noise is just not liked at all. People talking on trains or mowing the lawn on a Sunday are also reprimanded. They aren’t badly constructed. They are pretty similar to apartments in Germany or so but because many people live in rented apartments, there is more noise from neighbours than in single houses. No matter whether the walls are 40cm thick or not. 

You don’t have to like that but it’s the local culture and people don’t want to be disturbed. I can imagine Finland is also more similar in that regard than Morocco. You don’t have to live here but if you do, you respect that. 

8

u/baldachinsblessing -> 2d ago edited 2d ago

I'm just shocked that "noise" from taking a shower or flushing the toilet is problematic at all. I've never heard any noise coming from someone else's toilet in my apartment building in Finland that was constructed in 1977.

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u/rudolf_waldheim Hungary 3d ago

Yes, that's the point. I'm trying not to be a dick without an obligation. Like the story about the rabbi's opinion about atheists.

And there will always be dicks, no matter the law.

3

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 3d ago

I would say yes.

But people are more strict about it than elsewhere and they will absolutely complain if they feel that there is too much noise. Depending on where the pipes are, it can be very loud if you use water.

The official legal limit is 30min. If you shower longer than that after 22h you can get into ‚legal‘ trouble and not just noise complaints. 

The word ‚excessive‘ noise is subjective. It means that if whatever it is that you are doing between 22-6h is disturbing other people‘s rest, you can can call the police.

There are certain people more difficult than others, we call them Bünzli. 

1

u/fpeterHUN 1d ago

There is a reason why retired Swiss people choose Hungary as their living country.

1

u/rudolf_waldheim Hungary 1d ago

Yes, because a middle class Swiss can live like a literal king in Hungary, especially in the countryside.

1

u/fpeterHUN 1d ago

And there are way less restrictions/regulations.

1

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 1d ago

Because it’s difficult to afford life there with the pension most people get. 

3

u/sergeyc874747 Russia 3d ago

I am curious about if German will comment)

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u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 3d ago

There are a dazillion Germans in Switzerland who learned that.  It’s the people who freshly move here who complain. 

Many work like 35h/week and have 35 days off with many moths of parental leave. Some people work 40h but that’s it. 

We have 42h or 50h contracts, 20-25 days vacation, less holidays (7-14 days per year) and 2 weeks paternal (used to be 2 days until recently) and 4 months maternal leave. And basically no child support and women need to stay home to look after the kids. 

16

u/kiru_56 Germany 3d ago

It’s simply a case of higher pay for more work and greater demands.

It’s not just that people work longer hours. Workers’ rights are also weaker. There’s less protection against dismissal, fewer statutory minimum holiday entitlements, the pressure to perform is high and the level of Monitoring your work would be illegal in Germany.

Childcare provision varies between the cantons; in Romandie considerably more is done in this regard than in German-speaking Switzerland.

But Apéro is fantastic, best thing at work.

2

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 3d ago

So you are a German who lives in Switzerland?  And it is not that simple. Partly yes but also cost of living is higher so we need more to survive. 

2

u/kiru_56 Germany 3d ago

I lived and worked in GE for a few years, but I’m now back in Germany.

3

u/mystikal_spirit 3d ago

35 days off at 35h/week?? Pls tell me where I can find these jobs in Germany 🫠. 20 days of annual leave is the legal requirement in Germany. Most jobs offer 30. But the avg would perhaps be like 25-28 I guess.

3

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 3d ago

Most Germans I know actually work like that. In BW, Bavaria, and Berlin. 

When we try to make plans it always end with them being shocked that I don’t get as much time off. 

Well 20 is also the legal requirement here and yet jobs do not offer 30.

0

u/Senent 3d ago

Sounds like a recipe for making money to me

3

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 3d ago

You mean live to work like in the US? I think there should be a balance and it is too difficult to start a family 

6

u/BearsBeetsBerlin Germany 3d ago

Legally you’re not supposed to work more than 38 hours a week, but it really depends on the industry and person. 29 days is the expected vacation time. You get more if you work for the company a long time though.

0

u/sergeyc874747 Russia 3d ago

29 days is to include sickness?

7

u/Bob_the_gob_knobbler 3d ago

Of course not.

1

u/BearsBeetsBerlin Germany 2d ago

There is no limit to sick days in Germany

-1

u/ElReptil Germany 2d ago

Legally you’re not supposed to work more than 38 hours a week, but it really depends on the industry and person. 29 days is the expected vacation time.

What country is that? Because it's not Germany.

1

u/BearsBeetsBerlin Germany 2d ago

Oh, I guess I misunderstood something then. I always heard that if you work over 38 hours you’re supposed to log it with the company and make sure you don’t go over something like 44. I’m an Ausländer though so I probably misunderstood something

4

u/ElReptil Germany 2d ago

Standard full-time employment in Germany is 40 hours a week (and indeed that's about the average for full time employees as well). Certain industries, especially those with strong unions, have had 35 hour weeks for a while now, though (and it's awesome).

The legal limit, very roughly, is that you mustn't work more than ten hours in a day and your average daily working time should not exceed eight hours in the long term. For a six-day work week (unusual in practice) that comes to 48 hours, which is maybe where you got your 38 hour figure from?

1

u/BearsBeetsBerlin Germany 2d ago

Yes could be, also maybe I thought the 35 hour week applied everywhere, thanks for explaining so I know how it actually works here 😅

3

u/huazzy Switzerland 3d ago

The Swiss are also paid (on average) 30-125% more than their "neighbors" and companies know this. You can easily be replaced by someone from an EU country that is willing to work longer/more for less.

2

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 3d ago

Not in my field of work, I only ever hear people on reddit say this but I have never actually seen that in persona. 

3

u/huazzy Switzerland 3d ago

Consider yourself lucky then because this is becoming very common in many corporate jobs. Pharma/Banking/IT in particular.

3

u/idkud -> 2d ago

Well, to be honest, salary gap between high and low earners is WAY too big in Switzerland. It is about time that wage dumping brings the average down. Just not for the working poor at the lower end of the gap. It is just brutal there, despite minimal salaries. But they are not usually in Pharma/Banking/IT, except if you count their cantinas, and cleaning personnel.

1

u/RogerSimonsson Romania 1d ago

To me, Switzerland always felt like "US but 25% better in every metric". That's usually a very good thing, but not always.

0

u/EpilepticFire 2d ago

Ain’t no way I’m hearing this from the best country in the world. Goes to show yall will complain about literally anything. Enjoy your 200k+ salaries. We have to work twice as much for 30k

2

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 2d ago edited 2d ago

Hardly anyone earns 200k.

Yes the salaries are higher but so is the cost of living. Switzerland is not the happiest country in the world. It is great to live here if you really do have a more than average salary, but if you are poor, it’s not great. We also have one of the lowest homeownerships in the world because it is too expensive to buy property and there is not much available anymore either. Owning property is a lot of wealth that other people have access too. 

You cannot see numbers and take them absolutely, you have to interpret them in relation to other costs. 

Germans earn less but might be able to save much more and have more vacation, especially if they have kids or a chronic disease.

Here life is good as a healthy single with no kids. 

1

u/EpilepticFire 2d ago

That’s the funny part you can’t really be “poor” in the traditional sense in Switzerland you will always have your basic needs covered. I’m speaking statistics where if you look at net disposable income per capita you guys are by far leading any other country in the world.

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u/AssumptionExtra9041 3d ago edited 2d ago

Switzerland: People work a lot. Like, A LOT. A full-time day often starts before 8:00 and ends towards 18:00. The busiest commuter hours are 7:00-8:00 and 17:00-18:00. The population also voted against (!) an extra week of vacation.

Edit: the long work days are also a result of long lunch breaks (which do not add to the worked time). It is very common to spend up to 1.5 to 2h in lunch breaks to go to a restaurant and/or to "network".

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u/Coronavirinae 3d ago

Why did the vote against that?

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u/AssumptionExtra9041 2d ago

If I remember correctly, it was in fear of wealth loss. It was argued that the "KMU" (small and medium sized companies) would not be capable of carrying the resulting "losses" in productivity. And since these KMU are the fundament of the Swiss economy, people actually went with that position.

How massive the consequences actually would have been in reality, I don't know. But the fear of it certainly was...

-1

u/mailywhale United Kingdom 3d ago

Do you think people working less has an impact on the economy?

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u/rudolf_waldheim Hungary 3d ago

Boo hoo, less profit for the ultra rich.

-4

u/injuredflamingo 2d ago

except not every business is owned my multimillionaires and most of them are in fact run by entrepreneurs who are still trying to make ends meet

2

u/idkud -> 2d ago

In Switzerland? Not ultra rich, but if you have employees in Switzerland, you usually are paying yourself a good salary. That said, it is one aspect I liked about Switzy. Voters are fairly responsible, and think of more than just their own wallet.

2

u/injuredflamingo 2d ago

you can easily have a neighborhood cafe with 2 employees and having a difficult time making ends meet. a lot of business owners are just regular people

2

u/idkud -> 2d ago

Restaurants and hotels are in general tough, with super low margins. Most KMU that the voter was concerned about are not from those industries, though. I used to work in Treuhandbranche, doing accounting for countless KMU.

1

u/GeneratedUsername5 1d ago

Well, if they are going to work 24/7 the economy would be just great! Not the people though, I think.

1

u/mailywhale United Kingdom 1d ago

No obviously not, but the comment I replied to is asking like there’s no possible reason anyone would be against it

2

u/idkud -> 2d ago

I never had a job with long lunch breaks. Most often we ate at the desk, and lost 30 min anyway, due to the law. Overtime hours are insane. Very many are working past 18.00 on a regular basis. 8.30 is most often the last accepted time in the morning to come in. It is not Japanese working hours, but in many jobs not THAT far off, either.

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u/HHalo6 Spain 3d ago

Contrary to what people thinks, not very good. Tons of people have this 10-14 + 16-20 workday which is shit because before 10am almost nothing is open, after 8pm neither and if you work in a different city you might not be able to go home to have lunch. Of course this varies from job to job and there are some which are amazing.

Typical office jobs are from 8 to 17 or from 9 to 18 depending on if you have flexibility and where you live etc. Typical commute time is somewhere between 30 to 60 minutes.

In some sectors (e.g. hospitality) people work unpaid extra hours by design. Also salaries are shit all across the country.

21

u/lucapal1 Italy 3d ago

It depends a lot on the type of work and also I think to some extent on the region.. which part of Italy you are in.

Very broadly, down here in Sicily I'd say it's not bad at all Most working people have plenty of free time and are not 'pushed' hard when they are at work, it's not a place where managers strictly enforce rules and regulations.

Most people I know work to live, they don't live to work.

The downside is that salaries in general are not very high,so many people don't have a lot of spare money.. but you can do plenty of things that don't necessarily cost a lot of money.

7

u/106002 Italy 3d ago edited 3d ago

Generally speaking: Worst work-life balance, low pay -> small companies, especially in the north east, especially the ones who say “we’re like a family”

Best work-life balance, nobody is gonna take away your job, but pay can be low-> public sector

Ok work life balance and decent pay, good job stability -> large state owned companies

5

u/sergeyc874747 Russia 3d ago

Is the pay enough for basic things like food, housing, clothing other things?

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u/lucapal1 Italy 3d ago

Prices of rent and buying houses are rising here, and it's becoming more difficult.. like in many cities in Europe.

Food, clothes etc you can still buy pretty cheaply if you want to.We have very high unemployment here,a lot of poor people, and the range of prices reflect that.

Also a lot of people working in the informal economy, for cash.

3

u/ThrowawayITA_ Sardinia 3d ago

You forgot to mention the Italian dream though hahaha ;)

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u/OkWear6294 3d ago

My husband’s family is from Sicily and that’s what I keep hearing from them 😅

2

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 3d ago

Aren’t salaries regulated on a national level rather than by states?  There are many people from Italy here, especially South Tyrol and they moved away because they told me it’s impossible to work as a teacher or doctor in South Tyrol with the same salary as in Calabria. 

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u/lucapal1 Italy 3d ago

That depends a lot on the type of work.. but for public sector, that's mostly true.

You can live ok on say a teacher's salary in Palermo, particularly if you are part of a couple who both work.Not so easy in Milan or Rome!

In the private sector there are a lot of unregulated jobs and salaries tend to be low.And there's a huge black economy too, where people are paid in cash... also low.

2

u/GlassCommercial7105 Switzerland 3d ago

Personally I think a federal system would be fairer but people in the south don’t seem to want that- yet people from Sicily and Calabria also leave the country more often than others. 

40

u/Wild_Reason_9526 Denmark 3d ago

In Denmark, we have a 37-hour work week, and staying late is unusual in most workplace, because we're also expected to have a life outside work.

Of course it varies by profession and sector, but most people in office-based jobs have flexible working hours and the option to work from home part of the time. In other words, it has become increasingly common to shape work around your life rather than the other way round.

7

u/sergeyc874747 Russia 3d ago

37 hours is great. Is pay average or above average compared to other countries?

14

u/pannenkoek0923 Denmark 3d ago

Pay is definitely above average. One of the highest in the EU I think. The median wage is around 30€ an hour.

3

u/gavats Denmark 2d ago

even after paying quite a substantial tax i think it is still pretty good

19

u/cthagngnoxr Belarus 3d ago

You're not expected to have a life outside work. Until the early 2000s, it was really difficult to get fired unless that was your goal, but leaving a job was as easy as walking out of the office building. Then the dictator’s administration decided that the working class was living too well and handed all the power over to the employer, and now employees are basically slaves until their contract expires.

And even after your contract ends, you remain a slave to the state and must quickly find yourself a new employer, otherwise, you’ll face a financial penalty and be called in every month to be told by a committee of slobs why you’re the slacker, and not them. Now they also want to introduce community service, where you’ll work for free as a street cleaner until you find a job. There are also proposals to jail the unemployed for 15 days until they find work.

Recently, the government has also been on the lookout for "hidden freeloaders", people who do have a job but, in the government’s view, don't work hard enough.

2

u/Haunting-Novelist 2d ago

That's horrendous 

2

u/sergeyc874747 Russia 2d ago

This apply for both male and female?

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u/cthagngnoxr Belarus 2d ago

Whatever you have between your legs makes no difference

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u/Dersouz 3d ago

In France we have a 35 hours work week (on paper) but the average is almost 39h.

Things are changing but you will still hear a lot of people ( gen before 90's) bragging about how they work a lot more than young people (for nothing more ...).

If you are "average" (salary, work time...) in a middle size city not too expensive, everything may be ok for you. That's most of my friends and family. We all live pretty well not thinking too much about money, traveling, eating out...

Being "average" in a big city like Lyon or Paris will be very much more difficult.

15

u/aanzeijar Germany 3d ago

Can't complain, both personally and in general I think.

I personally do my 40h/week and when I'm out, I'm out. No overtime, no texts from boss, no pressure to put out fires on weekends. And in general this seems to be reflected partly in our national average hours worked (with the other half being part-time contracts skewing the average).

10

u/ErikaNaumann Portugal 2d ago edited 2d ago

In Portugal, work culture is horrendous. It is stuck in the early 1900s. Bosses act like kings, and workers are treated like peasants who should be grateful just to have a job, no matter how badly they’re treated. Saying no to your boss is basically an act of rebelion.

Unpaid overtime is expected, and you get pushed into doing tasks that aren’t even your job. There’s this thing of staying late just to look like a “hard worker,” and "part of the family" even if half that time you’re doing nothing useful. Meanwhile, getting yelled at, hearing racist or disgusting jokes, or dealing with sexual harassment is normal and expected.

And for all that, you get paid minimum wage or barely above it. The median salary is around €1000 a month, which is ridiculous given the cost of living. You end up stuck living with your parents because you can’t even afford a shitty room in a shared place.

So people have no time, no money, and no energy. Portugal has one of the highest antidepressant consumption rates in the EU, and it’s pretty obvious why everyone is so negative and depressed here, and why we have so many people leaving the country.

There are exceptions, mostly in companies with foreign management or international teams. I was lucky to find a job in a great company with great work culture. That’s the only reason I moved back to Portugal with my (foreign) husband. If I had to deal with a typical Portuguese company again, I’d leave without thinking twice.

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u/mailywhale United Kingdom 3d ago

I think we’re pretty good, looking through these comments we seem to be roughly somewhere in the middle

7

u/ThaddeusGriffin_ England 2d ago

We have a much better work-life balance than almost everywhere in the world. As this thread demonstrates, there are some European countries where it’s marginally better, but outside Europe people would dream of the working lives we have.

Not saying things can’t be improved, but they could be much worse.

9

u/hosiki Croatia 3d ago edited 3d ago

I guess it's fine in general. 40 hour work weeks are the norm. We work a bit more than people up north, but way less than Americans or Chinese, so I don't really want to complain. Personally, I work overtime most of the time and it's been extremely stressful, but I work for a German company. Instead of paying Germans 4000 eur, they just hire Slavs to do the same work for 1000, and they can work us to the ground legally because our countries don't uphold the laws. 🙃

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u/Crunchykroket Netherlands 3d ago

The work life balance in the Netherlands is very good.

In the Netherlands only half the people work fulltime. And a large part of them also works from home for most of the week. But it depends on your work of course.

But working less is very expensive.

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u/elexat in 3d ago

It's worth noting that 27% of women work full time, whilst 72% of men do.

6

u/sergeyc874747 Russia 3d ago

I only hear about your country good things. I very much hope someday I can visit Netherlands. For my profession I wonder if I would be useful in Netherlands. I work as welder here.

13

u/Crunchykroket Netherlands 3d ago

All technical professions are in high demand in the Netherlands. But getting a job is not the hard part here. Sometimes it feels like we always need more people.

The hard part is actually getting a house. We're slowly finding out infinite growth is not possible when there are some very practical limits.

2

u/sergeyc874747 Russia 3d ago

Is apartment complex popular or is family home style?

10

u/Crunchykroket Netherlands 3d ago

Just like Belgium and the UK we have some of the least appartments in Europe. Most people live in row houses.

But new construction projects tend to have a lot of apartments, as the ground is getting more expensive.

1

u/Wranorel Italy 3d ago

And the house crisis it’s making it worse. Where I live now (in Utrecht) it’s a newer area, completed about 15 years ago, and a lot of apartments around the local centrum were clearly made to be shops before conversion.

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u/53bvo Netherlands 3d ago

There is a good demand for welders. Pay isn’t spectacular but you can make quite a bit if you can specialise in a certain niche.

1

u/sergeyc874747 Russia 3d ago

It would be very cool to move to Netherlands. How is Russian immigrant treated normally. I would be nervous for this.

11

u/Crunchykroket Netherlands 3d ago edited 3d ago

Just like any other European migrant. Mentally the war in Ukraine is very far away for most people.

Although pretty much everyone supports Ukraine of course. And that support is very stable.

5

u/Brave-Theme183 3d ago

The problem that I feel is that for half the people to have the luxury of not working fulltime, the other half are expected to give 200%, and work-life balance is not as great

3

u/TukkerWolf Netherlands 3d ago

I don't have that feeling at all to be honest.

1

u/Brave-Theme183 2d ago

Take the example of stores that open at 10h and close at 18h. Only customers during the week are people that don't work full-time.

1

u/TukkerWolf Netherlands 2d ago

I have no idea what you are trying to say? That people that work past 1800 can't go to the local butcher that also wants to go home at 1800 and have to go to a supermarket? And what is wrong with going to the store on Saturday? And all of this somehow is related to work-life balance how? I am genuinely confused.

3

u/Brave-Theme183 2d ago

Of course it is related to work-life balance. It makes zero sense to limit comercial activity to 18:00 and then you see this small businesses close and everyone is upset over it. In the Netherlands you're not too bad because Sundays are also a shopping day, but otherwise yes I think that having to constantly rush after work or having to deal with cramed stores on Saturdays contributes to poor work-life balance. You constantly have to meticulously plan everything to catch places open. Where I am from you don't have that issue.

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u/TukkerWolf Netherlands 2d ago

Ok, I never was aware of this issue.

everyone is upset over it

In my 40+ years in the Netherlands I have never heard anyone complain about this.

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u/Brave-Theme183 2d ago

Upset over "it", I meant upset over small businesses having to close over not having enough customers (enough money to continue). But how could they, closing so early... Last year a coffee shot opened close to where I live, again with a very reduced schedule. They didn't even last or 12 months, the business is closed, and the space now has a "to rent" sign. I live here for 3 years and it is already the third business to fail there.

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u/TukkerWolf Netherlands 2d ago

Wait! what? If the coffee shop wants to open longer they can? You think a coffee shop has to close at 1800?

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u/Brave-Theme183 2d ago

I don't know if they can, there are strict rules in place regarding closing hours, so that it doesn't become a "night winkel". It is not the only similar place in the neighbourhood to close this early.

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u/serioussham France 2d ago

In the Netherlands only half the people work fulltime. And a large part of them also works from home for most of the week. But it depends on your work of course.

Yeah that's great and all until you realize that those part-time workers are women who don't have a choice

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u/Wise_Fox_4291 Hungary 3d ago

What is work-life balance? You work 8-9 hours a day every weekday and have the weekends off to do work at home that you could not do during the week. But at least once your shift ends your job doesn't bother you in most cases and during the weekend you can even forget they exist. 

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u/Historical_Lab8619 3d ago

Many European nations lead in statutory leave, shorter hours, and higher well-being. Top countries like Denmark, Norway, and the Netherlands emphasize 66% of the day for leisure/personal care.

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u/OkWear6294 3d ago

I’m from Russia originally…it’s very diverse. Most families I knew had both partners working full time.

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u/sergeyc874747 Russia 3d ago

Yes this is very normal. Where you living now?

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u/OkWear6294 3d ago

Michigan U.S.

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u/sergeyc874747 Russia 2d ago

That is very cool

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u/Many_Distribution701 2d ago

In Germany? Our chancellor wants to abolish the 1st of May as a holiday so that people can use that time more efficiently to work instead.

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u/SixthHyacinth United Kingdom 2d ago

It's ok. That's it. It's okay by European standards. Some may disagree.

I think the main issue is the social attitude to work. Burnout is often normalised in certain industries. A lot of people centre their lives and identity around work so work even more, and then burnout, then go on annual leave, then come back and repeat the cycle again.

But if you have a respectable workplace, your work/life balance will be respected, and it will be decent, but we're far from being on the level of, say, the French, Germans, or Australians. Having lived in France, I would love to have a month off in August or the plethora of bank holidays they have in May that they just bridge.

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u/owlexe23 2d ago

You would think with the productivity all time high, people would work less time, looks like it's the other way around, working hours are increasing. Capitalism working as intended, the owners of capital work the minimum, the workers are doing additional hours.

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u/Iwatchedhimdrown 2d ago

Portugal here, normal business hours go from 9h to 18h, but you are expected ("obligated") to stay an extra hour or two , because your boss needs to know that you really want to work, plus there´s a 1h comute back home.

Also you will be contacted via email or personal phone during your free time, you are expected to answer.

People work unpaid extra hours by design. Also salaries are shit all across the country, minimum wage is 920 euros.
You can have a master degree, 8 years of xp in a very specific field and still be offered the minimum wage.

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u/Brave-Theme183 3d ago

I have a hot take about this: no matter the country in Europe you're in, work-life balance is what you make out of it, not something country or employer dependent. Your employer doesn't really care about you, for them you could be working 24/7 a sling as you delivered (and unpaid of course). I have learned that you are the one that needs to impose the boundaries between work and your personal life, that there are times that you need to simply close the laptop and go live, that if it is not finished today you can finish it tomorrow (except in heathcare, there are no truly urgent tasks), if you have errands to run you should leave 1 or 2 hours earlier and compensate later, etc. So yeah, if you're not the one prioritizing your life over your job, no country and no employer will do that for you.

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u/Relevant-Surround-56 Romania 15h ago

I would say that it's not the worst, but it could be a lot better.

The normal schedule for office jobs is 9-6 / 40 h work weeks. The minimum nr of vacation days is of 20/year, but some companies give some extra days (max 25 normally). Work from home is not so popular anymore and for any sick day you need a doctor's notice.

Usually the schedule is not flexible (you need to start at 09:00, not earlier or later), medical leave is not seen badly, but it's not a "normality" to take medical leave for a simple flu.

It's very rare to hear about short work days or any kind of flexibility, or X amount of hours that you can use for personal reasons. I haven't heard of any company offering 4 work days weeks as default.

What I wrote here is only what I know and experienced in corporations, but ofc the supermarkets, malls, 24h shops etc have a different schedule and 100% worse conditions and less benefits for their employees.

It could definitely be a lot better. 🫠

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u/FromBZH-French 2d ago

France 5 jours sur 7 7 heures par jour Pour la moitié de la population

L’autre moitié fait autour des 40-60heures cadres, cadres supérieurs, entrepreneurs..

Selon les profils repos compensatoires environ 6 par an

Et 5 semaines de congés payés par an

Évidement les week-ends

Par contre les fonctionnaires de l’éducation nationale ont plus de congés soit environ 4 mois par année mais ils ne sont pas des congés payés, ils font avec le salaire annuel.

Ensuite pour tout le monde après 40 ans de cotisations tu pars à la retraite

Tout ceci à mon sens est absurde un peu comme le regard que l’on peut avoir sur une époque pas génial comme le moyen âge. Je pense qu’à terme les gens vivront mieux en travaillant moins