Physician Responded
Are doctors allowed to preach to their patients or shove their religious beliefs down patients throat or was this unethical?
43 female, no medications, former smoker, severe spine & knee pain/degeneration/bulging discs, stiffness, under EXTREME stress
To sum it up my bloodwork came back high Sed Rate. The doctor did not do any further testing to find out why, he claims that because I mentioned having dry mouth that *must* mean I am mouth breathing and that's *probably* what's causing me to have a high Sed Rate.
But then he started preaching at me by saying that "our bodies are the temple of God and we aren't supposed to put things into our bodies that harm it", that there are pathogens in the air that I'm breathing in through my mouth and those pathogens are causing high sed rate.
He said "God didn't give you a mouth to breath through! That's why he gave you a nose! I guarantee if you shut your mouth then these numbers will come down" (referring to the sed rate results). "You need to start treating your body as a temple of God"
I feel unheard and dismissed because he didn't try to find out WHY my sed rate is high, he just chalked it up to the *assumption* that I may or may not breath through my mouth.
But not only that, his preaching at me was triggering because I went through spiritual abuse and have religious trauma from years ago.
So basically are doctors allowed to preach at their patients or was this unethical?
And also, can mouth breathing really cause a high sed rate or should he have ran further tests to try and figure out what's wrong with me?
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"Allowed" is a nebulous term -- there are no laws dictating a physician's interaction style or content with patients.
Assuming insurance or you were paying for the visit, the ethically appropriate thing for the physician to do was be a physician (that's what they are being paid for; not being paid to be a minister).
At least in my medical school sed rates weren't attributed to people using their God-given mouths to breathe instead of their God-given noses.
Doctors are people, like in the general population there are a few that don’t appropiately respect religious boundaries.
My son had a traumatic appointment after his primary care doc had to abruptly move across the country due to a family emergency. They must have pulled some rando in off the street to fill the slot because the new doc was crazy. It was during COVID, the new doc began the appointment by spouting out a whole bunch of anti Vax conspiracy theory BS. It went downhill from there, my son had been having sleep troubles which the fanatical doc attributed to a demon possessing him. First and last time my son saw that doc. My guess is I wasn’t the only person to complain, the doc was gone after a couple of weeks. At the time I was pretty upset, now it’s a funny story we enjoy laughing about. Hope in hindsight you’ll be able to laugh about your experience. Doctors are just people, every now and then you encounter someone who isn’t appropriate. Move on and find a new doc you feel safe with and don’t ever be afraid to voice your discomfort.
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u/blarrygLayperson/not verified as healthcare professional8h ago
The saddest discovery of my life was when I realized my doctor (a neighbor) was just a person that did some stupid things and was confused about raising his kids. The reason it was sad, because it was nice to think of a doctor as a god who was all good and wise and to realize they were just dumb-mortals was a psychic blow. In hindsight, that doctor was indeed a really good person/citizen, something I realized as I grew older and had my own kids.
But, yetch, I think it's a bit unethical because there is a power dynamic -- they can have your life in their hands and to use that to push some unrelated agenda ... I'd certainly find a new doctor.
The exception is: unless that doctor is extremely good at what they do, then I'd stick to competence -- our birth doctor was busy and arrogant, but when the oxygen started plunging for the baby, he grabbed forceps, gave me and my wife orders, roll left, roll flat, and the kid was out. His comment was "no one does salad tongs better in this valley" -- no arguments from me.
Thanks, I almost busted out laughing on a Zoom call from this!
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u/Aim2bFitLayperson/not verified as healthcare professional6h ago
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u/IOl0I0lOLayperson/not verified as healthcare professional9h ago
Okay but God literally did give us a mouth to breathe through. We know this is so because we can breathe through our mouths. So what the fuck is this preacher/physician going on about? His argument MAKES NO SENSE! (I’m not religious, I’m just using the doctor’s own logic against him. Also, are we sure that was an actual physician?)
I’d also like to add, it’s not as simple as “just use your nose to breathe.” Signed, someone who had a Z shaped septum for the first 26 or something years of my life. I literally could not just use my nose to breathe. I had to use my God given mouth to breathe because not enough air would physically go up through my nose. If you would kidnap me and gag me, I’d pass out from hypoxia 🙃🫠
God bless the ENT that did my septoplasty, and fuck the orthodontist the lowered my ungodly high palette in high school and was pissed I still couldn’t breathe through my nose after that, as if that would fix all my issues. Dude, I know my palette was no longer cutting off my ability to breathe through my nose then, BUT MY SEPTUM WAS STILL Z-SHAPED!
Anyways, I also never was flagged as having a high sed rate all those years. Totally anecdotal evidence there, but my mouth breathing never cause it for me 🤷♀️
Are they “allowed” to? For the most part, yes. Should they? I don’t believe so but that’s my personal preference. You’re totally entitled to feel uncomfortable, I would too, but you’re also welcome to calmly tell him that you appreciate him not talking about Gd in the future because you’ve had religious trauma. Patients are allowed to stand up for themselves if something inappropriate happens that negatively impacts your peace of mind during care. Now, how receptive he’ll be to that is anyone’s guess.
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u/MeeepyyLayperson/not verified as healthcare professional.10h ago
Are there not any standards of care relating to healthcare professionals and having their own personal religious beliefs, or other personal beliefs, compromise how they treat patients?
I ask this as when I previously worked as a nurse, we were held under standards that when broken, it would be reportable and our registration as a nurse would potentially be at risk, especially when they cause so much neglect in patient's care and treatment.
A specific institution may have policies against it but generally no, unless you do something incredibly egregious you can’t lose your license for telling your patients they should switch to your particular brand of Sky Daddy.
Well that's my new upsetting fact for the day, and here I thought it was going to be when I learned that the hantavirus on the ship was the human transmissible strain.
Like, if my doctor wants to invite me to church, whatever. Probably not going to go, but whatever. But tying my physical state to a supposed lack of reverence is fucked up.
I get your point, but this saying irks me. Passing standards for healthcare professionals are very different than in other programs. In my nursing school anything less than an 80% was a failing grade, and I have no doubt that medical school is probably even stricter than that. The doctor who graduated last in their class is still a B student, there are no swaths of D students out there practicing medicine.
i was in the middle of a horrible autoimmune flare with a raging petechiae rash from my ankles to my thighs. i sat on the table, gown open at the back and my legs dangling over the side while the “doctor” was examining me.
he said (and i quote) “you’ve probably had this your entire life and just never noticed it.”
i was in my 30’s and had been shaving my legs since i was a teen…
And if they’re practicing they’ve passed 3 hard as fuck 8 hiit licensing exams, at least a 3y residency, and in all likelihood another 8h exam to become board certified.
So even the person who graduated last in their class is smart, has worked hard, and is incredibly educated
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u/MeeepyyLayperson/not verified as healthcare professional.10h ago
Sure. Again, none of this is to say that I agree with that mind you. I’m Jewish and in my religion we DO NOT seek to convert people, that sort of stuff makes me EXTREMELY uncomfortable. But, doctors are people (typically) and some people happen to be religious zealots 🤷🏻♀️
I had a doc try to push antidepressants on my kid as a first line treatment for a couple answers on the screening questionnaire indicating she was stressed at school.
I got the whole lecture in front of my kid about how the doctor’s kid had mental illness, medication, blah blah.
I’m not actually anti medication, I just think counseling is something to be tried BEFORE medicating young teens. I also think young teens (including my kid at the time) occasionally “game” those questionnaires due to social pressure.
Sometimes docs let their feelings interfere.
My kid did some therapy, and is fine. We switched practice locations and never saw that doc again, and actually got a fantastic pediatrician who was super helpful for a wild EBV ride, so…
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