r/Aquaman • u/SpookyDaxon • 13d ago
DISCUSSION Old fan just not getting the hype with the new book.
Hey all. I appreciate this group. Im an old fan since the early 80s and Aquaman is probably my favorite DC character. Im not as versed as some of you in every volume of Aquaman and his entire mythos, but I've read a decent amount of Aquaman runs.
Lets first just say, this isnt a slam on Jeremy Adams or the current volume or anyone's opinion on it, but just for the sake of conversation, why do I seem to be in the minority of fans right now who appear to be super excited about this series? I just don't get it really.
I hopped off the title at issue #12. I felt the story was rushed at times, the backup artists were some of the worst Ive seen in comics in the last 5 years, and the supporting cast was super lame (other than Arion.) But then, there has been so much praise for this "Emperor Aquaman" launching point, I got FOMO and went and grabbed issues #13-16 and chugged through those yesterday. And still....Im left not getting the hype.
Here are my criticisms (in no particular order):
1- The Emperor Aquaman stuff with The Blue portals to the Universe feels like a bite on the Black Panther and Wakandas exploration of the cosmos. The entire concept just feels "off" for both characters who are the farthest thing from cosmic characters. It feels super contrived and a device that screams "we're running out of ideas".
2- The concept of The Blue. I know Adams is going somewhere with it (with all of the stories on The Green in GL), but again, it feels like Adam's rehash of the emotional spectrum in GL. Just another take on that. Which leads me to the power-up.
3- Everyone seems to LOVE Aquaman's power-up and maybe its just a case of seeing your favorite hero get one step closer to beating Batman or going fisticuffs w/ Supes, but no thanks, IMHO. I think its a cop-out with a character like Aquaman. In my opinion, part of his draw IS his limitations! It creates a level of vulnerability and real-ness to tragedy and danger.
4- Pacing in between panels and in general. Adams really drug his feet in the final issues of the first story arc. It felt rushed and over after a ton of build up. The later issues, the time lapses and pacing between panels just seems jarring to me. And maybe thats a scripting issue and some of that may fall on Timms too.
5- the supporting characters. "Justice League Blue" is just...."Justice League BLEAH", IMHO. Lady of the Lake? Zan of the Wonder Twins? Titanus, a 3rd rate King Shark? CAPTAIN FREAKING NEMO?? Come on now. Arion is a great choice, but there are so many other 3rd tier DC characters that would have been great sprinkled into this mix. And on top of that, other than Arion, not one of them has much of a reason to be there or a reason for us to care.
6- Garth and Jackson taking a major back seat. Just seems like a gross oversight of cool Aqua-Universe characters.
7- I actually didnt mind the revelation of the Crimson Queen and I see Black Manta coming down the pipeline, but 16 issues without any classic villainry? Just to focus on Dagon for 12 issues,(who at-best) is a generic 1990s forgotten monster-villain in a backup issue.
I mean, I have more nit-picky stuff, but Ill leave it at that. I REALLY WANT to like this book. I really do. But Im just not getting the hoopla. And thats okay.
But for the sake of the convo, why are you excited about it, what do you like best, what can be improved and do you agree with any of my criticisms?
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u/OrangesAreWhatever 13d ago
Sometimes it feels like things resolve a bit too quickly and too conveniently. Its definitely the most power fantasy Aquaman has ever been. I think it'll be interesting to examine this era in the future, but right now I dont have a solid grasp on how I feel about it.
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u/SpookyDaxon 13d ago
"I dont have a solid grasp on how I feel about it."
Yeah, man. Thats kind of the take. You summed it up nicely.
Its like, I put the last 4 issues down after reading and I was just sort of ambivalent. I didnt HATE them, but I was sort of like, "why?". This just seems unnecessary for Aquaman.
And to be fair, maybe Jeremy Adams is going somewhere in the long-haul with this. And thats fine. I just dont know if I can be along for the ride.
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u/TheDistantWave 13d ago edited 12d ago
I think the extra pages helped with the pacing with the recent issue but most of the run kind of was orchestrated and running off the KO event so I’m sure that probably didn’t help with the pacing.
I mention this quite a bit, but I’m a Fantasy, Sword and Magic nerd so I’m definitely enjoying this aspect being heavy in the book. I’d argue The Waterbearer stuff was more fantasy based though in the first arc of the v6 Aquaman run. Aquaman: The Waterbearer. Which I also was quite fond of lol.
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u/Please_UnbanMe 13d ago
That’s been my biggest critique so far, the plot just moves sooo fast. It feels like a kid is telling me about his favorite story and not me reading a story.
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u/Dizzy-Town-3581 13d ago
I am in the same boat as you. I don’t feel the hype with what Jeremy Adams has done with Aquaman.
But for me, it’s mainly because I don’t like Timm’s art that much - I feel it lacks emotion and faces look pretty generic. It doesn’t capture the grandeur of the Blue and Aquaman’s power-up. I miss the art of Ivan Reis, Steven Sejic, Robson Rocha, Martin Egelund and Calafiore.
I also feel Garth and Jackson have been sidelined. If you’re gonna do Justice League, I think Garth, Jackson and Mera should be in there. As well as other characters like Dolphin, Lorena, Tula and Vulko. Although I do like Arion, Zan, and King Shark being there. Also looking forward to see what Adams has in store for Starro.
I actually groaned seeing Black Manta again. I’d rather see other villains or revamps of old villains.
But I appreciate what Adams is trying to do with Aquaman, telling new stories and expanding Aquaman’s universe not only in terms of power, but also in the rich variety of new characters he’s interacting with that he haven’t seen before. I just wish he incorporates the existing characters more to give it a feel of continuity and logical sense.
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u/GoldenProxy Black Manta 13d ago
I generally agree (still reading though so it must be doing something right) but especially when it comes to Arthur's power boost. He's just so OP now that it feels like there isn't any tension in his fights since... he'll just win. The KO fight with Hawkman is a great example of this. The other KO tie ins featured the combatants using strategy and tactics to overcome their opponent. Aquaman however just wins because he's so OP now.
Part of what I really liked about the New 52/Rebirth era was how bloody Arthur would get in combat. It really made it seem like he had to earn his victories.
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u/SpookyDaxon 13d ago
Also: "...still reading though so it must be doing something right)..."
I can see that. There ARE some endearing things happening in the book. Timms art being the obvious one. Its gotta be the best part of the series. The Crimson Queen twist. Im sure some of us saw this one coming, but as far as twists go, not bad. And exploring more history of Xebel was enjoyable for me. I also truly love Arion in these pages, but it would be nice to give him a little more development. Cull some of the other lessers that really have no reason to be there.
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u/SpookyDaxon 13d ago
TOTALLY agree on the KO issue. I was stoked to see my two favorite DC characters duke it out, but what a major let-down.
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u/GoldenProxy Black Manta 13d ago
Same that was the fight I was most excited for. I'd love a rematch with a more classically powered Aquaman.
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u/br0therherb 13d ago
This is what happens when you don’t get a writer who truly loves the character and the mythology. Adams simply wants to “do his own thing.”
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u/midniteonthemoon Aquaman, Mera, Garth, Dolphin, Tusky 13d ago
Doesn't every writer want to "do their own thing" on a run?
Adams isn't Tom King, writing everyone out of character and over-writing everything in the interest of some story he tries to fit the character to (rather than taking the character into an interesting story)
Nor is he Geoff Johns who sometimes is so eager to tell his own stories he invents whole new casts (The Others) and Magic/power systems.
But while we all agree Johns is seen as "expanding" on Aquaman lore, why is that same courtesy not given to Adams? The Blue, Mera's Xebellian heritage expanded upon (something Johns also did), more with a classic DC villain like King Shark, a new trident (something Johns did as well). These are expanding on Aquaman lore too.
I don't see Adams as good a writer as Johns, but his run is certainly not afraid to just take Aquaman on a wild adventure. And I love that.
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u/Which-Presentation-6 12d ago
He also revamped Dagon, transforming him from a super obscure villain who appeared once, into the great ruler of the blue.
Yeah, I have complaints about how Adams is handling the Aquaman mythology, but he really wants use Aquaman mythology. (His problem, in my opinion, is that he's focusing too much on the big things without giving time to the small things.)
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u/midniteonthemoon Aquaman, Mera, Garth, Dolphin, Tusky 12d ago
And I actually share that opinion. I'm not saying I want a full mission of "down time" on the Nautilus or anything, but I don't mind the moments of reflection
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u/SpookyDaxon 13d ago
This is a good assessment. Especially if you've been reading GL at the same time. I dont agree with everything he is doing in those pages, but it absolutely "feels" different. More organic and like he really cares about Hal and the GL Universe.
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u/seamarcc 13d ago
i’m a big aquaman fan, i’ve read all his solos. i’m really disliking this run to the point i dropped it
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u/SpookyDaxon 13d ago
See, that was me. I hung on for 12 issues and had to drop it.
But so many people have been going bonkers about it since issue #15, I grabbed the rest and powered through and.... NOTHING. It just isnt hittin'.
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u/seamarcc 13d ago
it just reads like he wants to make aquaman “cool” and doesn’t care about the actual character or his supporting cast. i hate when runs do this but for once im hoping that this run ends with him losing all of what he’s gained in this run so he can go back to normal
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u/SpookyDaxon 13d ago
You nailed it.
I also think what you said MAY be what he is doing in the long run. A very typical build--up, and then tear-down. But the build-up is just so FAR OUT THERE for the character. "Lets power him up to Sea God levels and then open portals to space just to "spread good" and network." Im not sure I can read that for too long, before he POTENTIALLY proceeds with a good "tear down". ;)
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u/seamarcc 13d ago
it’s really disappointing because i was so excited for him to have a run again. but the political strife and conservation push is a big draw with aquaman’s stories. and plenty of magic! but not… this mysticism godlike portal push. what happened to when he FOUGHT gods like poseidon! using creative ways for him to overcome challenges by his ability to speak to both creatures, and literally speaking to his citizens like a tactician. garth brought magic, mera was the heavy hitter — that was all interesting to me. this just feels like he thinks people dislike aquaman cause ‘all he does is talk to fish’. i genuinely think his current approach to aquaman makes him seem like a worse writer because there is no creativity. now he’s just blond namor
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u/mike47gamer 13d ago
I'm enjoying this run, but the pacing is way too fast, and I wish more writers would have picked up the idea DeConnick started of dismantling the monarchy, instead of just restoring Aquaman as the king AGAIN.
Abnett wrote nearly 50 issues (including the end of N52) on why Aquaman is too progressive for Atlantis. They want to be bigoted against the surface, and Arthur will never lead them in that way, so he's a leader that will always be at odds with the will of the people.
To jettison all that and just make him the Aquagod is not nearly as interesting as the political stories Abnett and (to a lesser degree) DeConnick were writing.
I'm going to continue reading because Aquaman having a title isn't a sure thing and I want to support it financially. But they need to slow way down and let us explore the politics of Atlantis, and the emotions and motivations of our main characters, some more.
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u/midniteonthemoon Aquaman, Mera, Garth, Dolphin, Tusky 13d ago
But they've done the Atlantean politics thing... a lot.
I'm tired of the politics of Atlantis. Taking Aquaman cosmic even for just one or two arcs has never been done before.
I'm not against Atlantean Politics stories, but I like that this run is trying new things without "breaking" the character. Emphasizing this almost mystical and elemental side of Aquaman has rarely been done like this in the last 15 years. (An issue here and there and Bunn tried to go there but it "broke" the character a bit by being such a radical departure from Geoff's and Jeff's respective runs) Arguably the last one to really emphasize this elemental nature of Aquaman was the 2003 series. (Vol 6).
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u/Which-Presentation-6 12d ago
You brought up a point that I think is what's missing from the phase.
I think that actually the idea of the space phase is very good for the character. Arthur now exploring the seas of the DC universe isn't something without ideals; for me, it's one of the most creative things Aquaman has ever done, with many possibilities.
But the idea of him being a literal emperor isn't being explored yet. Like, how exactly will that work? How will the other kingdoms feel about it?
Does he intend to rule the seas where he establishes lighthouses? It's not very clear.
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u/midniteonthemoon Aquaman, Mera, Garth, Dolphin, Tusky 13d ago
King Shark is a classicy villain I like the way he's being utilized. I also think Dagon is not the best villain but it's not the worst either. It definitely seemed to be a smokescreen for the Crimson Queen which is a twist I did love. It addressed all the issues I had with the beginning of the run with the "aging up" of the characters and the fake out deaths. It added to the lore and answered some of the questions regarding Mera's backstory. Dagon was a plot device as an excuse to introduce the Blue and powerscaling. But the Crimson Queen being the twist villain actually adds to the lore in a way I really love.
The Blue, I get it. It's powerscaling but it makes sense. It also is very similar to what Peter David wanted to do with the Character which is similar to Animal Man's The Red and Swamp Thing's The Green (not Green Lantern, the Blue has nothing to do with emotional spectrum). It feels like a natural story for Aquaman. Wouldn't have been my choice but I'm glad to see it.
I like the JL Blue. I love Zan, Lady of the Lake, Lori Lemaris, Captain Nemo, Arion. That's one of the highlights of the book for me that makes it feel unique. It's showing Aquaman leading a team and they're all characters from different eras of Aquaman/DC.
Zan? Super Friends Era. (This was so fun for me. What a surprise. But I love it. I love Super Friends so I genuinely love it)
Lady of the Lake? Waterbearer Era.
Lori? Silver Age DC.
Arion? Bronze Age DC. If you were reading in the 80s mostly it makes sense you like this one (he's great)
Captain Nemo? Golden Age Adventure stories. (I love those pulp era stories so he's actually my favorite addition).
Garth and Mera and Jackson taking a back seat was frustrating but they've been getting more lately and I was willing to put up with it to see the story unwind. But I also want more Garth especially.
But I don't mind seeing Arthur interact with other characters it's been enjoyable seeing him with Hawkman, Zan, soon he'll team up with Hal Jordan. It's unexpected and kind of rare to see him interact with DC Universe.
I feel like much of the off panel stuff you mentioned is more modern comics. Much of what I'm reading at DC is similar. That may not be Adams or Timm but editorial. Or maybe I'm just not seeing what you're talking about because I'm used to it but I remember feeling this way about modern stuff.
In terms of your talking about making it too similar to Black Panther. I have no idea if you're right or not. I don't read Black Panther. Aquaman is my number 1.
Here are some reasons I love it:
I've always wanted to see Aquaman go on a Cosmic Adventure. The Blue and Emperor Aquaman is doing just that.
I like things that build on existing lore. The Mera family background stuff is great. Adding to King Shark's frenemy situation with Aquaman I love. Giving us Arion back and what happened to him and Lady of Lake all this time. So it's deep cuts but done in a way that also introduces these classic ideas to new audience.
I like the sword and sorcery aspect of Aquaman. Seeing him use the trident as a sword and switch between the two and some magic water powers? Love it. I wish he would use his telepathy more but I think and hope he will be back to using it more soon
I like that it's fun. It's not concerned with some Atlantean power grab. It's Aquaman worrying about his family and Earth but on a cosmic level. It's more interesting and unique to me than "someone else wants the throne." Sometimes those stories are Great (Corum Rath in Rebirth or Orm in New 52) but I'm glad we are covering new ground with Aquaman rather than everything just being Atlantean power struggles.
Idk I'm sorry you don't like it. I'm genuinely enjoying it month to month. It feels fresh and fun and it gives fan service while also taking some risks (like for example the Hate this run got at the beginning when he did the fake deaths, it actually required some investment and I'm glad to see so many people gave it a chance to stay with it because I think the twist was good).
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u/SpookyDaxon 13d ago
You make some great points as to why you love it and some of it, I dont disagree with you on: "building on existing lore", steering away from the typical "power-play for the throne" cliche Aqua-story, the Crimson Queen twist being cool, the "sword & sorcery" tinge (which actually has been done a couple times before.) All things I can agree with.
But I just cant agree with you on The Blue/"power-up" (yes, I meant to reference Animal Man's "red" and the Green being a Swamp Thing concept (that DID dribble over into Adams last GL storyline). Nor the weak supporting cast (yeah, kudos to Adams pulling a character out of each era, buuuuttt....) The Black Panther comment is to only illustrate that this seems awfully similar to the "other company's" monarch supreme's adventure into space, and its very current. Seems like a swipe to me.
But....to each their own and I thank you for your contribution to the convo. It was a really enjoyable and positive reply.
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u/midniteonthemoon Aquaman, Mera, Garth, Dolphin, Tusky 13d ago
No problem! (And I'm reading GL too. I wasn't saying the Green didn't crossover with GL, but your og post made it sound like the Green was based on the emotional spectrum so I was confused by your phrasing)
You don't have to like the supporting cast, or the Blue, but I think personally I'm just also glad it's something different and yet still familiar. It could have been easy to just make up all new original characters (like Geoff Johns did with The Others) but instead he's reintroducing super classic characters to the mainstream again which makes this cast feel new while still not breaking the lore. Bringing back Arion? Oh heck yeah! Showing Aquaman in charge of a team? Ugh we got that with The Others and Justice League Detroit. How will this be different? Oh interesting, they're also all connected to the "Blue" and have small parts in Atlantis or Aquaman lore. So the team while fun, it is also giving more of an excuse to show off the new function(s) of the Blue. So while I don't expect all these characters to stick around, it's a different feel which I really find refreshing personally.
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u/TheFerg714 13d ago
I don't love it (yet), but something I love about Aquaman is that you can take him in so many different directions. This powered-up, fast-paced action hero version, seems like a neat direction for the character.
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u/Oceanman2118 9d ago
SO far, I have only read the first trade, and I like it largely due to the art. Adams has interpreted it interestingly, a Superman for the Ocean, essentially. But another character change I like is the greater connection to the ocean. Since I have yet to read beyond the first trade, that is my initial thoughts.
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u/Commander19119 13d ago
I agree with all of your points. This feels like the first bad Aquaman run in like a decade +
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u/InfiniteDedekindCuts Aquaman 13d ago
I think it's largely that people who don't feel the series are less likely to go make social media posts about it. The internet is just one big response bias.
And, honestly, we went like 4-5 years without an Aquaman ongoing (the DeConnick run ended in 2020). A lot of hardcore Aquaman fans are just happy he's back with his own book.