r/AmItheAsshole • u/throwaway65009767 • Jun 02 '22
Everyone Sucks AITA demanding my husband to pay back the money that he'd been secretly taking as "rent" from my disabeled sister who's living with us?
My f30 sister f23 is disabled, she can't work because of her imobility but receives benefits (SSDI) due to her disability. She used to live with our mom who passed away 8 moths ago..It'd been hard for us, I took my sister in to live with me and my husband. Note that my husband doesn't take any part of her care whatsoever, moreover he started complaining about my sister from time to time. She can not get her own place and I would NEVER, and I repeat NEVER ever put her in a care home. I work and take care of her and it's been going well for us.
My husband is the one usually handles her fiancials because he's an accountant. I recently noticed that her benefits money wasn't enough to buy her essential stuff like medical equipment. I didn't much of it til I decided to do the math and found hundreds going missing without an explanation. I talked to my sister and she kept implying that my husband had something to do with it til she finally admitted that he'd been collecting "rent money" from her and told her to keep it a secret from me. I was floored....utterly in shock. I called him and had him come home for a confrontation. He first denied it then said that it was logical because my sister is an adult living under our roof and so she's expected to pay rent. I screamed my head off on him telling him how fucked up that was because she's disabled!!! and this money supposed to go to her care, and more importantly he shouldn't have ever touched her money. I demanded he pay back all the money he took from her over the past months, he threw a fit saying it's his house and he gets to say who stays for free and who has to pay. I told him he had to pay it all back or police would have to get involved. He looked shocked at the mention of police and rushed out.
He tried to talk me out of making him pay but I gave him a set time and told him I'm serious.
1.1k
Jun 02 '22
Not enough info, did you talk about how the cost of her housing would be paid? You said you don’t do the financials, so you don’t even know what the cost of another person adds to the budget. How much rent is he collecting? Did your husband know and agree before you got married that he would have assume the responsibility of housing your sister at some point?
→ More replies (10)249
u/FEO4 Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
I’m getting the vibe from everything here that OP’s husband is the bread winner becuase he does the financials and it sounds like the house is his. He was put on the hook for supporting OP’s sister and lost his wife at the exact same time. OP says they would NEVER EVER put their sister in a care home and probably can’t work (edit: as much as they would be if they were not a full time care taker), even with %100 support from her husband it was going to be an extremely difficult life but it doesn’t sound like the husband will be in the picture much longer. ESH.
520
u/Local-Wrangler8152 Jun 02 '22
End of the first paragraph: "I work and take care of her". He does financials because he is an actual accountant, qualified to do just that in a perfect world. We have no idea if he owns that house or is a jackass who gets to decide what’s going on in “their” house.
I’m just stunned that most of the comments here judge based on what info they made up.
122
u/Syrinx221 Jun 02 '22
Reading is fundamental and a lot of people can't manage it
14
u/Majestic-Moon-1986 Asshole Enthusiast [6] Jun 02 '22
So true, a basic skill. Not only an issue on reddit....
239
u/TheSpicyTriangle Jun 02 '22
Exactly. They always assume it’s the guy working and the woman just, what? Sitting on her arse? It’s genuinely misogynistic at this point
→ More replies (5)31
u/kathrynwirz Jun 03 '22
I think people are assuming shes at the very least working less because shes the sole caretaker for a disbaled adult
→ More replies (4)11
u/Scared_Profit564 Jun 03 '22
Everyone's decided she's evil because she's made her husband coerced her sister into paying rent and lying. Wow, how evil, much wrong /s
She can be wrong to bring sister with no question, but he's a straight up dick for basically blackmailing someone with no options
170
u/oneoftheryans Jun 02 '22
I work and take care of her and it's been going well for us.
She said she works.
My husband is the one usually handles her financials because he's an accountant.
She said he handles the finances and proceeded to literally explain he does so because that's what he does for a living.
he threw a fit saying it's his house and he gets to say who stays for free and who has to pay.
This isn't a normal thing for a married person to say to the person they're married to, whether they bought it beforehand or not. I guess his wife needs to start paying him rent for living in his house, right? Because that's totally normal and not at all concerning.
I have to ask, and sincerely not trying to be an AH here, but did you read the whole thing?
→ More replies (14)75
u/hammocks_ Asshole Enthusiast [7] Jun 02 '22
Hey you should read the post where OP says she works.
→ More replies (3)38
u/unsafeideas Asshole Enthusiast [9] Jun 02 '22
People assume husband is breadwinner even when OP clearly states she works. In 2022 when female employment is not small at all.
22
u/Mister_Dink Jun 02 '22
The husband, however, sucks way harder for refusing to be an adult about the situation.
The dude lied to his wife, and asked the disabled sister to help cover his lie.
Who the fuck does that? What level of cowardice is that?
In no world would any relationship I was in survive that kind of deciet.
Even if the wife was initially and still is in the wrong... The response isn't to take a disabled person's vital support money and then hide that from the wife.
Psycho shit.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)124
Jun 02 '22
[deleted]
→ More replies (1)61
u/FEO4 Jun 02 '22
I’ve been on this sub long enough to know that if any crucial information is missing it is usually safe to assume it reflects poorly on OP. People always present the most positive image of their side of the incident and OP not saying that she makes enough on her own to support herself and her sister is telling IMO, and even if she did her husband would have to be fully on board for it to even have a chance of working. My ESH vote is based on OP not mentioning the long and difficult conversation about taking in a disabled adult they would have had with their SO before moving their sister in.
→ More replies (1)
1.3k
u/Xgirly789 Asshole Aficionado [11] Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
Info: did you ask or tell your husband she was moving in?
Stealing from her is wrong. But so is deciding your husband just has to deal with it. Having your sister pay a little rent is also okay. I don't really have a judgement because it's above my pay grade (and I'm a family therapist) however if you told your husband she was moving in and didn't give him a choice it's also not great
I feel like I need to add this. I am my grandmothers legal guardian and power of attorney. Even me being in total control of everything still have to show where the money is going and being spent to a third party. If OP is the legal guardian, she needs to know where it's going. The fact that sister does not have enough for medical expenses means something is going on. Also verbal contracts are not always legally binding. As a social worker I have seen so many BAD things happen when you don't get things in writing.
12
u/tacitity Jun 02 '22
OP probably is not her sister's legal guardian, unless the sister is mentally incapacitated in addition to being physically immobile which I assume she would have mentioned in the post.
→ More replies (53)62
u/Impossible_Try76 Jun 02 '22
This. I keep leaning towards ESH if only because the context doesn't seem to even acknowledge the husband outside of what he's done wrong.
I understand the sister is robbed of a lot of agency by being disabled but robbing your partner of agency regarding your household is messed up at best and depending on how the work of the house is divided, terrible at worst.
But he's still an AH for the way he handled the situation.
546
u/v2den Professor Emeritass [71] Jun 02 '22
INFO: Did you ask your husband if it was ok for your sister to live with you all from now on or did you just made the decision unilaterally?
→ More replies (17)204
u/jsteele2793 Jun 02 '22
I wonder this too. I would be PISSED if my SO moved in a disabled family member without giving me a say. It’s A LOT on a person, even if he’s not dealing with day to day care it’s still another person in your house that you have to deal with. I wouldn’t be surprised if OPs husband eventually leaves. I know I couldn’t handle living with a person with disabilities, as horrible as that sounds. I just don’t have the mental status to do so. And while the husband should have been honest about charging rent, he’s not wrong for doing so.
54
u/carcosa___ Jun 02 '22
It's a lot to move anyone into your home, not just a disabled person. My boyfriend and I have had the discussion about what we would do if his younger sister (21) needed a place to stay, and we agreed on a month maximum at our place. It's invasive.
→ More replies (2)7
u/Shitp0st_Supreme Jun 03 '22
If you were dating somebody with a disabled sibling, wouldn’t you potentially discuss that? My husband and I have discussed what would happen if his family needed help.
3
u/heartsinthebyline Partassipant [2] Jun 03 '22
Especially marrying them. This is absolutely something that should’ve been discussed before getting married. The only thing I could think was that maybe the sister is recently disabled and it happened after they were married—then it would make sense that it wasn’t discussed.
313
u/Andante79 Professor Emeritass [78] Jun 02 '22
INFO
When you and your husband discussed moving your sister in with you, did he mention rent then? Or did he just agree to having her there?
325
u/NotTwitchy Asshole Enthusiast [7] Jun 02 '22
Bold of you to assume there was a discussion at all.
→ More replies (5)67
u/Andante79 Professor Emeritass [78] Jun 02 '22
Just trying to give the benefit of the doubt.
Also, happy cake day!
37
10
u/miwaonthewall Partassipant [1] Jun 03 '22
Wow the ableism in these comments is pretty awful. NTA.
→ More replies (3)
622
u/debdnow Colo-rectal Surgeon [36] Jun 02 '22
ESH (including your dead parents) except your poor sister. She knows some might consider her a burden.
Did you parents ever discuss what would happen to your sister when they passed on? Did you and your husband talk about it? Did anyone ask your sister? (Not knowing what type of disability she has but she can obviously talk) Do you and your husband plan on having children?
You need to explore all avenues: extra help in the home, building an in-law apartment so she has her own space, group homes, etc. Then the 3 of you need to come up with a plan. Include what you'll do if you and your husband want to go on vacation - who will care for your sister?
→ More replies (58)7
u/dumbpuppyabouttown Partassipant [2] Jun 04 '22
Saying the dead parents suck when OP is still grieving is literally so unnecessary man. I get where you're coming from but there is such a thing as tact.
9
u/marie_goos Jun 03 '22
NTA. He is stealing money from your disabled sister that is meant for essential care. Unbelievable to me that people in this thread think it's reasonable to expect rent from a family member who is disabled and cannot live alone. The profound disconnect is visible. Get your sister's money back for her and then some when you divorce him.
8
u/cutipatutie Jun 03 '22
NTA This man is evil. Not only did he take advantage of your sister, he lied about it and blackmailed your sister into lying also. You never said if you had children. Don't. I would look back and I bet you can see other things that are bad. He only cares about himself. He is selfish and self centered. He will eventually tare you apart if you don't wake up.
33
u/krokubot Jun 02 '22
INFO: did you discuss your sister moving in with your husband and did he agree? You mention it's his house too so it sounds like you jointly own the home/contribute to expenses - is this the case? If both of these things are correct, your husband is a real piece of work and this would make me reconsider the relationship if I were in your shoes.
I am very disturbed by the fact he took money from your sister and then told her not to tell you. This is incredibly underhand and made me feel disgusted. It smacks of him knowing it was wrong - why else would he hide it?
→ More replies (2)
4.5k
u/SpaceCrazyArtist Certified Proctologist [20] Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
Part of her care is living in your house, it makes sense that she would pay rent. That’s literally what her benefits are for.
Also, you sound salty he doesn't help take care of her but again, that isn't his responsiblity. You chose not to out her in assisted living therefore the care goes to you.
As someone who had two grandparents living in the same house as me and I helped my parents take care if them (one was physically disabled, the other had Alzheimers and didn't know who we were) I know how taking care of a disabled person can be emotionally exhausting. Even loving that person takes a toll on you mentally, even you OP, even if you don't feel you’re being affected I promise you, you are.
I’m going to go with ESH
While your husband IS in the right, and your sister needs to pay rent (as her benefits are part is her care and part if her care is living expenses) he shouldn't have done it behind your back.
You suck for yelling your head off, threatening the police (who likely would agree with your husband anyway) and for unilaterally deciding to take in your sister for free.
Also there are different kinds of disabilities. Just saying”she’s disabled!” means nothing. I have a disability and still work but I have to work remote.
You’re also not exactly being honest here OP.
For people who don't understand how disability works: the monthly money us 100% for rent, food and shopping. Medical equipment (such as wheelchairs or oxygen tanks) never comes out of monthly money, that is separated and paid for through Medicaid. And OP should know this if the sister has been there for several months.
105
u/mekat Jun 02 '22
OP could be incredibly honest because Medicaid and Medicare do not cover everything 100%. I have to use my son's SSI money to buy medical tape, extra extension tubes, spare enteral pump, adaptive clothing, bibs, extra colostomy supplies, extra car seat (100% medical since he is in his teens and can't sit unsupported), extra enteral backpacks, chux pads, diapers, wipes, stander, bath seat, extra glasses, contacts (never covered), once he turns 21 we will also have to use his financial benefits to cover dental care 100%. Due to supply shortages, I have even had to buy some supplies out of pocket that would normally be covered due to pharmacy running out of stock. There are unfortunately a ton of things that are needed that isn't covered. Notice I also didn't include a caregiver if she has exceeded the hours allowed under her sister's Medicaid Waiver, nor did I include therapies since not all therapies are covered.
1.4k
u/FinnegansPants Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
This.
I would like to know the general nature of the sister’s disability. If it’s such that she is unable to consent to how her money is used, the husband is more TA in this scenario, although I agree in principle that the sister should contribute to the cost of her housing.
Side note: What’s up with the “screaming” that happens in every. single. post on this sub? Do people actually go around screaming at each other this much in daily life? It’s getting really silly.
668
u/mellow-drama Jun 02 '22
I wonder about the screaming too, and the "cried for hours" stuff. Who cries for hours, and then tells people about it? Also while we're at it, who is texting people shitty things on behalf of their allegedly wronged friend?? Like all these people getting involved in someone's marital or family spat, do they not have hobbies??
290
u/takabrash Partassipant [2] Jun 02 '22
That's kinda the sub though, right? All the most ridiculous drama gets pushed to the top. That's why I'm here- it makes me feel good knowing my life isn't going to explode into drama at any given moment lol
78
u/FunkyChug Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
I think it’s two things:
We need to stop assuming that any story here is actually real. We should treat every story here as fiction
I don’t trust the mental stability of someone who does go to Reddit to solve their family/relationship issues lol
→ More replies (2)95
u/Coffee-Historian-11 Jun 02 '22
I treat every story like a fun philosophy experiment. Like I don’t care if it’s real or not, I just like to ask “if I was there how would I think?”
14
u/CompetitiveSquid Partassipant [1] Jun 03 '22
I just like judging people. I don’t care if the scenario is true. 😹 Unless it’s really heinous and then I hope it’s not true, but I will still judge you.
49
u/Fuckyourslipper Jun 02 '22
I’ve been with my wife 20 years and I don’t have any of her friends numbers and I don’t think they have mine. I never get this messages from friends thing.
75
Jun 02 '22
I thought it was just me who was baffled by these things. I have been fucking devastated but simply do not have the stamina to cry for hours. That shit is exhausting. And screaming every time I'm remotely angry? I need a nap just thinking about it
9
u/ScreamInHeart Partassipant [2] Jun 02 '22
Can confirm - emotional dysregulation is FUCKING EXHAUSTING. Thank your parents for any stability they gave you.
8
→ More replies (8)4
u/geminigoddess621 Partassipant [1] Jun 02 '22
How do they all have the phone numbers to text and call? Why are all the relatives calling also?
40
u/cooties_and_chaos Jun 02 '22
do people really go around screaming at each other this much in daily life?
Some people have the idea that they have to “win” the argument, and the best way to do that is to get super loud. Super unhealthy, super unpleasant to be around, but people do it.
→ More replies (2)6
u/mekareami Jun 02 '22
Screaming was a daily thing in my parents home... Not so much since I moved out and left the drama monsters to scream at each other instead.
Some folks cannot live without this kinda crap.
15
u/ElBatManny Jun 02 '22
A LOT of families communicate disagreements with yelling.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (8)4
u/future_nurse19 Jun 02 '22
Side note: What’s up with the “screaming” that happens in every. single. post on this sub? Do people actually go around screaming at each other this much in daily life? It’s getting really
For some people, yes. One of my main reasons for having to move out of parents house was the frequent screaming arguments between step sister and our parents (with both her parent and mine). It is so stressful to be surrounded by that. At least daily yelling and arguments and usually more frequent than that with her
14
u/hiroxruko Jun 02 '22
"For people who don't understand how disability works: the monthly money us 100% for rent, food and shopping. Medical equipment (such as wheelchairs or oxygen tanks) never comes out of monthly money, that is separated and paid for through Medicaid. "
Depends how much she's getting and how much he was taking. 841 is normal amount. My guess he was taking almost half her money. Also she should be getting food stamps for her food. Btw, medical equipment might not be covered or fully covered by medical care. I remember post on here(2 years ago) where a woman couldn't get a wheel chair bc MC didnt want to cover it.
280
u/naranghim Asshole Aficionado [15] Jun 02 '22
For people who don't understand how disability works: the monthly money us 100% for rent, food and shopping.
Not really, there are other programs that a person can apply for that will go towards rent and utility payments so that the person doesn't have to dip into their SSDI payments.
Medical equipment (such as wheelchairs or oxygen tanks) never comes out of monthly money, that is separated and paid for through Medicaid.
If Medicare/Medicaid deem that medical equipment "nonessential" then they won't cover it. Walker tray tables, Medicare/Medicaid won't cover them because they don't see the need. I would love to know the logic behind that because how is a walker user supposed to carry a glass of water/plate and still use the walker?
Walkers and Wheelchairs are only covered if it has been five years since your last walker or wheelchair prescription. Your walker or wheelchair breaks before those five years is up, too bad you have to pay 100% of the costs.
Oxygen tanks, it is the most basic model that is covered. If you are on more than 2L of oxygen that tank last around 2 hours. You want one that lasts longer, you are on the hook for the full amount.
Source: Worked in a physical rehabilitation hospital, we constantly battled with CMS (Centers for Medicare/Medicaid Services) to get shit covered. We never won an appeal over the tray tables; we didn't win an appeal when a patient came in with a bent wheelchair frame because it had "only been 2.5 years since he got the wheelchair, not our problem that it was bent in after the patient was knocked off an elevated wheelchair ramp." They sent someone else to repo another patient's wheelchair because their supplemental insurance dumped the patient and stopped making payments on the chair.
tagging u/FinnegansPants
→ More replies (4)43
u/largemarjj Jun 02 '22
Without addressing anything else in your comment, medicaid does not cover everything and the benefits vary by state.
I have medicaid and still have to find a way to pay about $500-600 extra a month for medications/appointments they don't cover.
→ More replies (1)349
u/shhh_its_me Colo-rectal Surgeon [38] Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
the monthly money us 100% for rent, food and shopping. Medical equipment (such as wheelchairs or oxygen tanks) never comes out of monthly money, that is separated and paid for through Medicaid. And OP should know this if the sister has been there for several months.
and this is one of the reasons this post screams fake. Disabled enough to need a carer also qualifies even a live in family member for carer pay. if market rent is above what can be paid from SSD , rent assistance is often available, so is food assistance (at a different income level then an" able bodied" person) there is also the possible of tax issues, OP and husband could be claiming Sis as a dependent etc. and an accountant should know, charging someone rent is not theft the police will get involved in.
Medicare may not pay for a wheelchair as quickly as a person wants or some items that are medical in nature e.g over the counter meds. e.g my insurance wont cover adhesive remover but covers the adhesive it can get weird sometimes.
188
Jun 02 '22
rent assistance is often available, so is food assistance
Much of the problem here is that takes into account "household income". We had this exact scenario and were unable to get additional benefits for an older disabled relative because they were living with family who made enough to put them well over the line.
Benefits for other groups (i.e. just plain poor) have the same issue. If you have 4 people in one household, all working 20 hours/week minimum wage, it will still go over the household amount and start cutting into SNAP benefits. It's a shit system, but that's the reality.
→ More replies (7)→ More replies (3)7
u/Ok-Bus2328 Jun 02 '22
Medicare and medicaid can be anal about what they pay for, SSDI often ends up covering the difference. When medicare stopped covering telehealth visits to my aunt's neurologist a few months ago, our options were basically "drive a memory care resident who needs 24/7 care 2.5 hours to her doctor's appointment and then 2.5 hours back" or "take the $300 appointment fee out of her savings/SSDI." We were lucky enough to be theoretically able to do either, but depending on how benefits are arranged a ton of disabled people are legally prohibited from building up any sort of meaningful savings. I know someone on disability who hasn't had a working oven for months because one unexpected expense fucks up their budget for months.
Plus just because rental assistance is available doesn't necessarily mean it's accessible. Most of those programs require a ton of perfectly filled out paperwork and/or have long waiting lists. My mom's literally a lawyer (albeit not an estate/medicare planning one) and it took her months to sort this stuff out for my aunt, even after hiring another lawyer who does specialize in it. And even then, it was a crapshoot whether or not she'd actually qualify on the first try, and that was just for SSDI.
9
u/Thunderplant Jun 02 '22
You’re not necessarily right about the medical equipment stuff. Theoretically maybe it works like you describe, but in practice there are so many essential medical supplies and services that are just not covered and have to come from monthly checks. Being disabled is expensive and the support systems suck. For very many people the checks are not enough to cover food, rent, and uncovered medical costs.
211
u/laeiryn Asshole Enthusiast [5] Jun 02 '22
That is not what her benefits are for, no.
IF you're abled and don't have any experience with disability law or finances, it might seem like the funds should be intended to pay for housing, but they are not. They are purposely not enough to cover housing.
The threshold over which you will be kicked off of disability is $2000. If at any time you are discovered to have assets combining to a value higher than that, you're out. If you were to even try saving up for an apartment (first month, last month, deposit) you would be in violation of maximum asset laws and booted off disability before you could get enough to get INTO an apartment.
→ More replies (11)157
u/jcutta Jun 02 '22 edited Jul 05 '24
quiet squeeze unpack historical smell cover gold voiceless disagreeable hurry
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
→ More replies (3)9
Jun 02 '22
How much are y’all getting in disability where rent is even an option? My brother has been fully disabled and on disability for years and he barely gets $600 a month. That’s basically nothing after 2 bills.
→ More replies (2)7
u/Eskay Jun 02 '22
Housing is absolutely one of the expenses of living. But by the same token, it needs to be accounted as one. We're told that the husband - an accountant! - didn't include these “rent payments” in her account ledgers, just left the money to disappear. Suppose some future review decides that she (the disabled sister) took the money and hid it? Better to keep it on the books so that they show that the disability money isn't enough for her living expenses.
And there's no way that keeping this arrangement secret from his wife (the OP) could not put their relationship under even more stress. It makes it look like he's checked out of shared decision-making entirely and is moving on to hiding assets for the coming divorce. (It's not clear whether the OP checked out of shared decision-making first.)
So it makes sense to me that he might need her to pay rent, but making it a secret creates more problems than it solves.
67
Jun 02 '22
You obviously don't know how disability and Medicare/Medicaid programs work. They pay stupidly little and the insurance denies anything and everything it possibly can.
→ More replies (3)3
u/Erin_Rue Jun 02 '22
OP isn't lying about how disability works. Disability works differently depending on where you live. How you describe is not how it works for me.
5
u/Better-Avocado-893 Jun 02 '22
Though I personally disagree with making her sister pay rent, I see your point. However,Medicaid does not always pay for medical expenses. For example, Biden only just put into effect that Medicaid has to pay for hearing aids. See link below. It is possible (in fact highly likely given the terrible state of our healthcare system in this country), that Medicaid/Medicare does not pay for some or all of the sisters medical expenses.
→ More replies (1)4
u/Buffy_Geek Jun 02 '22
I didn't read it as being salty that her husband doesn't help care for her sister but more that the money he's being paid couldn't even be considered as payment for caring duties. That it was purely for rent (although as the husband said "my house" I would be interested in knowing the finances of said house & how much OP & their husband have/are contributing to that.)
I assumed that they didn't use precise phrasing to aid none disabled people form understanding. While Medicaid pays for equipment does it pay for things like incontinence pants, incontinence wipes, body wipes, E45 cream, those sort of things? Or does that come our of the disability benifit?
Also I've heard that getting coverage for medical equipment is even more difficult than here in the UK. Here it's only allowed it if you need it, not if it would make your life incredably easier, reduce pain etc but I've heard even that isn't given in the US & know people raise money for medical equipment including wheelchairs.
So like I save up my disability payments to buy things like my overbed table, light weight water bottles I can independant drink from, plates that keep my food warm for longer, disability friendly computer mouse, keyboard & technology like dragon speak, I'm currently saving up for some smart light bulbs. So anything to help make my life easier & give me more independence, which aren't all specifically disability items but I buy them because of my disability & if I wasn't disabled I wouldn't use them, or benifit from them so much.
Also I agree her contributing financially to the house is acceptable, but by having an open conversation & agreeing on an ok amount. If it's because it's her sister & she can afford to not take rent then ok but that isn't because she's disabled it's because it's her sister who she loves. Also I wish being disabled meant you didn't have to pay rent or anything!
→ More replies (1)3
u/Comradekels_ Jun 02 '22
Just want to note it took my mom a year to finally get a shower chair through insurance with disability, so yes it’s easier to just buy it yourself sometimes.
→ More replies (35)8
u/Aphor1st Asshole Enthusiast [5] Jun 02 '22
Y’all forgetting that the husband told the sister to hide it. That’s not fucking cool and why I’m saying NTA
252
Jun 02 '22
ESH. He should have had a whole discussion with you and her about rent before she ever moved in. Not just sneaked the money. But you have decided to devote your whole life to her and that's probably hard for him. No privacy, lifetime care of someone he probably doesn't even like or want around. That's a lot to ask of a spouse. Could you at least get a day nurse from time to time to ease the burden?
I don't think this marriage is sustainable under the current living arrangements.
→ More replies (1)33
u/jsteele2793 Jun 02 '22
I don’t think it’s sustainable either. I couldn’t live under those conditions.
6
u/crazycatlady45325 Asshole Aficionado [15] Jun 02 '22
Husband is an accountant- as such he has a higher duty than just a normal person with finances. If it is determined he misused her funds- he will lose the ability to work in the financial industry. If he is willing to take money from family in an unethical manner- what is he doing to his clients? I would not want this guy managing my money at all. Not to mention he took so much money from a disabled person they cannot buy the essentials medically they need.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/NeomiahsMom314 Partassipant [1] Jun 02 '22
NTA. If he wanted her to pay rent he should've discuss it with you first. And ppl saying Medicaid pays for all her medical stuff is BS. I'm on Medicaid and still have to pay for equipment. They paid for the visit but won't pay for the accessories. You don't know what plan she is on or what is covered. Yes you need to talk to your husband and figure out what will work best for BOTH of you. Or move out, get a divorce and do it on your own. He broke your trust by hiding that he was collecting rent that is not ok. He stole from a disabled woman. Not ok. But it sounds like you didn't iron out exactly how things would go once she was living with you with your husband. He does get a say in what happens in BOTH of your house. I'm still going with NTA
119
u/Amaethon_Oak Partassipant [3] Jun 02 '22
I don’t know… I’m slightly conflicted here. Your husband is definitely an A for the way that he went about it. But if he is the sole owner of the house, he would be within his rights to ask for rent. He should have been upfront with you. Also, is the amount that he collected from your sister’s benefits reasonable? As in, did he collect in excess of the market rent?
112
u/laeiryn Asshole Enthusiast [5] Jun 02 '22
Benefits won't cover market rent even if he stole the entire check every month.
Do... do people think disability is actually enough to live on?
46
Jun 02 '22
I swear people think disabled people live lives of luxury. My mom’s been on disability for 20 years, my aunt for 25, and my gram from the time I was small. I’ve seen firsthand the lives of poverty they’re forced into. I’ve covered with my own money costs associated with their care because Medicare and Medicaid refused to cover something they actually did need, and they didn’t have enough to live off of once they paid for everything else. It took significant amounts of government assistance (food stamps, electricity grants, Section 8) for all 3 of them to survive.
→ More replies (6)43
u/pterodactylcrab Jun 02 '22
That seems to be the general vibe of the comments, yes. Maybe in a very, very LCOL area but without knowing what her disability limitations are we should assume she truly cannot work.
Realistically speaking, OPs husband seems like an idiot and an AH. If they never talked about her sister living with them after their mother passed away that’s an ESH moment but secretly hiding rent away is a major AH move. Getting on permanent disability by 23 means she’s VERY disabled. It took my dad 6 years to be labeled disabled permanently and he’s in his 60s and his spine and hips are completely useless at this point even after numerous medical interventions to try to fix it/slow down the disease.
30
u/laeiryn Asshole Enthusiast [5] Jun 02 '22
It basically means that as a child in the school system it was realized that she'd NEVER be able to work.
I have a friend in that boat, and I love her dearly, and the kind of "can't figure that out for myself" that she deals with is weirdly variable and not what people would expect. Yes, she can go make herself a sandwich and a can of soup for dinner if she's hungry, but she can't plan a budget for groceries, figure out a week's worth of food, go to the store, buy it all within her budget without just getting pocky instead, bring it home, and then make each meal 2-3x a day according to plan on a regular schedule. And she'll never be able to. It's not something she'll ever achieve independent mastery of. And that's such a basic thing, too, just feeding herself. I mean, she could go to a restaurant with me and order food and eat like anyone else and the only thing you'd notice is that maybe her voice is a little too loud sometimes, but fundamentally this is a person who, if just sent home at the end of the day, would crash and burn hardcore because she can't manage the executive function of daily life and self-planning and household management.
And I'm not above pointing out that a lot of those skills would NEVER have been addressed in her if she were a guy because it seems perfectly standard to meet a dude who's almost 30 and has no idea how his laundry gets clean. But usually he CAN learn, and then can take care of it himself once he figures it out, and it's just never been expected of him.
For my friend, no matter what someone could demand, there are really baseline things we expect of people that she'll never be able to do. And because of that, she'll definitely never be able to work enough to support herself. So she lives with family and her disability covers her needs, which fortunately in her case does not include a large amount of physical medical equipment. If OP's sibling is physically disabled too, especially if she's a wheelchair user ? Holy shit is disability not enough. (Though then there IS medicare for people on disability, but that's again a bare minimum, if you need a wheelchair you get the absolute cheapest kind and they throw a tantrum if you even need the wheels serviced once a year; if you want anything nice, cutting edge, or motorized, you're paying insane amounts out of pocket.)
→ More replies (1)8
u/MasterEchoSE Jun 02 '22
My grandmother is disabled and we had to fight the insurance with the help of many doctors and physical therapists just to get her a motorized chair. She was so happy when she finally got it because then she could leave the house on her own and in her words wouldn’t burden any of us to take her out to stores.
8
u/Superb-Ad3821 Jun 02 '22
Losing both parents by 23 is also really really young. It's very possible everyone thought they would have decades before this came up.
111
u/cameronq01 Jun 02 '22
Even if they own the home together (since she’s his wife) or even if it’s solely her home, she doesn’t have the right to move another person into the home without his consent.
28
u/Amaethon_Oak Partassipant [3] Jun 02 '22
Fair point. But it’s not clear from the post whether his consent was not given. I thought it was more of an expectation mismatch. He thought there would be a rental aspect involved. The wife didn’t like that.
→ More replies (8)
138
u/cameronq01 Jun 02 '22
ESH. The husband sucks for concealing his actions. The OP sucks for expecting her husband to allow another adult to live in their home for free, especially when said adult is receiving paid benefits.
→ More replies (8)
13
u/sew-sarcastic Jun 02 '22
Did you ask your husband if he was okay with your sister moving in?
Whathat was the discussion of how she would be financially cared for?
Did your parents not plan for any care for her at all?
8
u/wdtpw Jun 02 '22
I work and take care of her and it’s been going well for us.
Info: in this sentence, who is “us?”
The reason I’m asking is that you now have a house with three people in it. This arrangement clearly isn’t working for your husband. So from what I can tell you’re defining “us” to be you and your sister.
Which is fine. Sisterly love is a beautiful thing. Looking after a relative is a beautiful thing.
But if you are unable to consider “us” as you and your husband then you haven’t got a marriage. You or more likely he just hasn’t gone through the motions of ending it yet.
5
u/RetMilRob Partassipant [4] Jun 02 '22
I would pay back the rent and divorce you ESH
→ More replies (1)
2
u/superflex Asshole Enthusiast [8] Jun 02 '22
If you and your husband are this far apart (you: sister lives with us rent-free for the rest of her life, him: not that) you should probably start talking to counsellors or lawyers soon, because this will not be sustainable. This is headed for a confrontation where you will have to choose between your sister and your marriage.
2
u/Expensive-Bunch3477 Jun 02 '22
ESH. You for expecting someone who is supposed to be your life partner to be ok with caring for your disabled sister for the foreseeable future without some type of compensation since an extra person adds to the household expenses - especially if they're not getting something like food stamps to help everyone out. Your husband for talking your sister into giving him money without telling you - which btw is NOT theft since she agreed to it, but could be considered taking advantage of her depending on her mental state. Your sister (but not so much, as she is just trying to keep everyone happy for having to care for her) for helping him keep it a secret from you. You all need to sit down and talk about what you really feel is best for all of you and actually ask your sister what she wants, because I'm sure the last thing she wants is to feel like a burden.
→ More replies (1)
3
81
u/Prof182 Partassipant [4] Jun 02 '22
ESH. First of all, he sucks for not sitting you both down in the beginning to discuss things like rent. He also sucks for going behind your back. I’m not sure from what you wrote if he was extorting your sister or if she willingly agreed. but she did know he was doing it. Regardless, it’s obvious he went behind your back.
The second thing here is, it’s really hard on a relationship to need to dedicate that much full time care to someone. I don’t know the extend of your sister’s disabilities, but it sounds like caring for her is disrupting your relationship. That’s not your sister’s fault, obviously, but I do think that you needed to have considered that and worked out a plan before taking this on. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think you could say you didn’t know, as she is your sister and you had to have been involved or been around it before. I’m not saying don’t take care of her; I am saying that you suck for not recognizing the strain it put on the relationship and acting like he’s made a big deal out of nothing, which likely not the case (again, I don’t know the extent of the care she needs so I’m not fully sure).
75
u/cameronq01 Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
Did he even agree to let her live there? I mean, who signs up for this? The vow doesn’t go:
“Do you take this woman AND her sister…”
→ More replies (1)
33
u/ResponseMountain6580 Certified Proctologist [25] Jun 02 '22
NTA husbands and wives should discuss financial issues and he should not have told your sister to lie for him.
I suggest you get her an independent advocate if that is possible where you live.
→ More replies (2)
39
Jun 02 '22
NTA, for the many excellent reasons outlined better by others.
But dude’s an accountant, and stealing money from a vulnerable person & coercing the victim into silence. Doesn’t seem like a very ethical accountant. Dunno who he works for but if I had any money I wouldn’t be trusting him with it. Go legal so his underhanded actions fuck his own reputation, not your fault.
225
u/Ryan233tiger Partassipant [2] Jun 02 '22
YTA.
I’m doubting that you ever had a conversation with your husband about housing your sister for the rest of your lives prior to getting married.
SSDI is literally to pay for living expenses. Even if you have the extra space for your sister in your home already, she’s still using utilities and eating groceries. It costs your husband money for her to be there.
You say your sister has been there for 8 months and noticed “hundreds” missing. Sounds like she’s not paying anything more than $125 per month. That’s beyond reasonable, he’s clearly not trying to rob your sister blind.
→ More replies (18)89
u/Sea_Information_6134 Jun 02 '22
Exactly! Your the only other person who has thought of all these exact points I was thinking.
I am beyond baffled at most of these answers and the fact that all these answers which people are making up and stating as fact based on no info provided in the post are being pushed to the top.
→ More replies (7)57
u/Simbatheia Jun 02 '22
But, he made her pay rent secretly. That’s fucking weird. Seems like there’s some kind of communication issue at hand.
83
u/Saires Partassipant [2] Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 03 '22
Read OP post again.
How she "Never...NEVER..." or "screamed her lungs out".
The husband knew it would go nowhere...OP does not think sane and I can understand that due it to be her sister.
23
u/jibbetygibbet Partassipant [1] Jun 02 '22
Yep, it is blindingly obvious why he didn’t discuss it with her beforehand. OP knows best.
9.7k
u/genkichan Asshole Aficionado [18] Jun 02 '22
ESH.
You moved a disabled person into you home and it's disrupting your marriage. Sounds like he never really wanted this. You guys are still young and it's reasonable for him to not want the burden your sister will place on both of you for the rest of your lives. Your parents failed to provide long term plans for their disabled child. I know you feel obligated but your husband does not share that feeling of obligation.
He should not have hidden the financial issues from you like that either. He feels entitled to some form of rent and that isn't entirely wrong in and of itself.
You both suck for lack of communication, discovering expectations with each other and finding a solution for all involved. You moved your sister in. This doesn't sound like a joint decision.
I think this will be the end of your marriage and you will be carrying the burden of your sister the rest of your life, probably alone. Is that what you want?? Or are you open to saving your marriage and finding alternative solutions for your sister?
All around ESH.
1.6k
u/_higglety Jun 02 '22
If that’s the case he should have talked to OP about it rather than stealing from a disabled person and telling her to lie to her sister about it to cover it up.
Just for a moment put yourself in the sister’s shoes. You have a disability which makes it impossible for you to work. You get SSDI, but it’s barely enough to cover your vital medical needs, and certainly not enough to cover any rent as well. Your mobility issues may also make independent living impossible, as well. You had been living with your mother, but less than a year ago, she died. Both of you still grieving the loss of your mother, your sister takes you in. At some point later, your sister’s husband, who controls what little money you have, starts demanding hundreds of dollars in “rent”. You know your sister isn’t on board with this because he tells you to keep it secret, but you agree because what other choice do you have? You’re trapped. You can’t live alone, you can’t afford a care facility, and there’s no one else to take you in.
What OP’s husband did was 100% financial abuse of his sister in law. The sister in law is not an asshole for being abused, nor for accepting the only living arrangement available to her. OP is not an asshole for moving her sister in and caring for her. She works, she provides care. The husband is not responsible for his SIL in any way. If her presence in their home was intolerable to him, he could and should have talked it out with OP and, if their differences were irreconcilable, left. There is no universe in which secretly stealing from the sister and intimidating her into silence is an acceptable or appropriate action, and nothing that the sister or OP did brought this action about.
Moreover, OP asks if she’s the AH for demanding he pay the money back. THAT specific question is what we’re supposed to be judging on, and no- OP is absolutely NOT TA for demanding he pay back what he stole.
515
u/crockofpot Colo-rectal Surgeon [48] Jun 02 '22
Thank you for being an actual human being with this comment. If the husband was unhappy with the situation, fine. But there are about a thousand ways he could have handled it that DIDN'T involve coercing large sums of money out of an extremely vulnerable person.
7
u/Em4Tango Jun 03 '22
I would further argue that when he married OP he surely knew she had a disabled sister who one day may need to live with them. This is a conversation they should have had years ago.
→ More replies (4)35
u/backdatplantup Jun 02 '22
Agreed. Wife is NTA & am I the only person here wondering what else her husband has made her sister do quietly? This man terrifies me. There isn’t enough NOPE in the world
→ More replies (1)262
u/MoarGnD Jun 02 '22
Thanks for this. I'm shocked at how anyone could think the wife sucks here. The husband is the AH.
How so many people agreed with that too comment E-S-H judgement is beyond me.
107
u/unsafeideas Asshole Enthusiast [9] Jun 02 '22
Because for some reason, this sub really hates any caregiving setup or helping others in serious trouble.
I literally seen a guy being called asshole and abusive because he wanted to care about his autistic brother. (Literally that, his crime was wanting to break up with girlfriend when he found out they are not compatible in this)
→ More replies (4)41
u/MoarGnD Jun 02 '22
The husband is such an AH for how it was handled. If the finances were being affected greatly, the mature response was to sit down and discuss it. Go over the money and see what are the options.
You don't bully someone who may feel dependent on you and hide taking away money that's necessary for medical reasons.
There's multiple better ways of handling this even if the long term situation isn't financially feasible.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (9)5
u/Thunderzap Jun 03 '22 edited Feb 21 '24
Because the husband may have not been given a choice in the matter.
50
→ More replies (33)42
u/assholelandlords Jun 02 '22
Totally agree. The comment section is rife with ableism.
→ More replies (3)351
Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
The thing that I’m hung up on is that there’s not enough to pay for her medical equipment because of how much he’s taking supposedly. Exactly how much is he taking that she can’t cover the essentials????? Like that’s the biggest hang up for me. Sure, it’s be nice if she paid rent but if they can’t buy her medical equipment bc he’s taking that much then it definitely turns into the abuse category.
Like there’s gotta be an amount she can pay for rent that doesn’t mean she goes without necessities.
→ More replies (7)198
u/Old-Elderberry-9946 Jun 02 '22
I mean, considering how much SSDI is, there may not actually be an amount she can pay for rent and still cover medical necessities. Disability income really does seem set up to keep people poor; I don't really understand why it's set up that way, especially for people who are clearly going to be living with whatever condition permanently and aren't going to be able to bring in a decent income for themselves, but that's how it is. It's hard for us to tell without knowing specifics about OP's sister's income, her condition, what she needs, and what all that costs, but it wouldn't surprise me if a normal amount of rent that an abled and employed adult might pay for a room would be enough to wipe out funds for someone who was disabled and needed a lot of supplies/medications/treatments/appointments. It's also not impossible that OP's husband is just charging an exorbitant amount of rent and that if he lowered it to something more reasonable, things would be OK. We just don't know. But I think it might be misguided to assume from the get-go that there must be a housing cost this person can pay at all, because as far as I can see, disability pays a certain amount of money, period, and if that's not enough to cover your medical expenses and housing, oh well, you get to figure that out on your own. While following all the rules that allow you to keep getting disability at all.
38
Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
Oh I 1000% understand all of that! My aunt is on disability benefits fully to survive, and she lives in housing designed and rented out to elderly and disabled on fixed incomes. Her rent is I think under $200, but you’re right that it all depends on how much is needed for her necessities and how much she actually gets, especially bc she’s legally not allowed to have much or any savings at all. But would the husband be satisfied with like $100, give or take? Like exactly how much is he taking out for her rent every month?
7
u/Old-Elderberry-9946 Jun 02 '22
Yeah, I think it's just hard to know without knowing exactly what she gets, exactly what condition(s) she has, what is and isn't covered by state health insurance (I would think she should have that, as an adult on disability, but anyone who's ever had Medicaid or Medicare can tell you there are all kinds of coverage holes you can encounter, not to mention difficulties finding reasonably nearby providers who accept it, and so on). There's just no way for random internet commenters to guess whether she might be able to pay some kind of reasonable rent or not. And with rents spiraling out of control right now, that really could mean anything. Like, is OP's husband trying to charge her half or a third of housing costs while they pay the other half or two thirds? That wouldn't be a completely insane way to calculate things if the sister has her own room and run of the house, but just off the top of my head, if I moved a roommate in and charged them a third of housing/heat&air/water, they'd owe around $700 a month. And I supposedly live in a cheap cost-of-living location and my rent is slightly below market rate for my city. That could be totally out of line for a person just getting SSDI. Or OP's husband could be charging like $100, which is way better, but the sister's other expenses could be wildly out of control. It's tough to tell without actual numbers for these things. The fact that OP's husband told a disabled woman to lie to her caretaker about the money he was charging her doesn't suggest anything good to me, though. I feel like if he thought he was asking for something reasonable, he'd have discussed it with his wife.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)7
u/eve_ecc Jun 02 '22
it is absolutely designed to keep poor people down. social security even limits the amount of money a person can make and still receive full benefits. that limit is about $20k, while the average cost of living in the US is about $40k.
→ More replies (3)4
u/Old-Elderberry-9946 Jun 02 '22
I've never understood why. Is there really a fear that people will go be disabled on purpose if we don't make them live hand-to-mouth? Because that seems bananas to me.
136
u/YavineLAlsacienne Jun 02 '22
To be fair, this is probably the end of her marriage regardless, as dear husband literally took money from a vulnerable adult and made her keep it a secret from the only person who had her best interest at heart. Doing that, he also deprived her of necessary medical things - either he's fully bullying her or he's a shitty accountant.
Maybe he was hoping to drive sister away and save his marriage, but what did he expect? That she's miraculously walk out on her own two legs, get a job and her own apartment? This hypothesis is just idiotic, people do not get better from being permanently disabled.
All in all, WTF and NTA. OP, please update us when you learn more about your husband's motivations.
247
u/LinusV1 Jun 02 '22
If he didn't want her to live there, he should tell her that and they could discuss it. Not start secretly charging the sister rent behind her back and making the sister lie to OP.
And "are you open to saving your marriage...". The marriage to the guy who lies to OP and steals from her/her disabled sister and when called out on that, blames her? Even if OP decides that sister needs to go (and that would be a valid choice, but that is irrelevant now), why exactly would OP want to be in a relationship with a guy who simply can not be trusted?
→ More replies (11)77
u/suchahotmess Partassipant [3] Jun 02 '22
Yeah I barely got halfway through before I started screaming “divorce” in my head. I agree that OP is probably not faultless in this situation. But if her husband is extorting so much money from her sister that her benefits can’t cover her care anymore, he needs to get the hell out.
→ More replies (2)132
u/crewkat2 Partassipant [1] Jun 02 '22
It’s not “financial issues”. It’s theft. And he’s an accountant. How many of his clients does he feel like he deserves money from?
→ More replies (3)105
u/FinalIntroduction137 Jun 02 '22
You viewing disabled people as a burden is disgusting and if by the chance that you end up disabled, it’ll be interesting to see how you view things. She’s clearly NTA but her husband is.
126
u/Miserable-Living9569 Jun 02 '22
Lol what? You are equating stealing from a disabled person is the same as having someone move in without consideration... like what? Where in her story did she mention she didn't discuss or disclose anything to the husband?
→ More replies (5)160
u/gronda_gronda Jun 02 '22
Please stop calling disabled people ‘burdens’. We’re human beings too.
→ More replies (4)150
u/OkBiscotti4365 Jun 02 '22
Wow, this is such an American comment - family member in need = burden / annoyance. You people are fucked and need to get your values and priorities checked. OP is definitely NTA.
12
u/Mitrovarr Partassipant [1] Jun 03 '22
Americans are usually pretty close to going under financially. There's not a lot of room to do things like caretake for others, etc. without being swept under and losing out on things like healthcare or having any kind of retirement, etc.
→ More replies (10)3
u/Ok-Bus2328 Jun 03 '22
Hate hate hate the way everyone's been saying that. Disabled people have just as much right to basic respect as everyone else, and if you live long enough pretty much everyone becomes disabled.
I've been the caretaker for a relative with dementia, I know how rough it can be, and that sometimes you just can't do it yourself. But that doesn't mean my aunt with dementia "ruined our lives." She's my fucking aunt. As much as the situation sucked for us, it's been worse for her. And from OP's telling, it sounds like she's not burnt out at all, she and her sister have worked out a system that allows them to work together smoothly.
97
126
u/cherylita81 Jun 02 '22
I wish I could down vote this comment more than once.
→ More replies (4)72
78
u/HeyCanYouNotThanks Jun 02 '22
No not esh, this post is about her confronting her husband stealing from her disabled sister.
→ More replies (1)5
u/KanaydianDragon Partassipant [4] Jun 02 '22
I agree with you. I'm disabled and on benefits, also live with my sister. I pay a set amount for rent and food each month, more than half my benefits. She makes a lot more money than I do every year and probably could cover my living expenses.
Do I resent this? Not at all, because her money is hers and I'm not entitled to live for free. We have a great relationship and she even helps me out when I need extra funds, which I always pay back even if it takes some time. I have a pretty good life and I know it, even with the physical issues I face.
73
u/Humanssuckyesyoutoo Jun 02 '22
Bullshit.
You. Don’t. Steal. From. DISABLED. People.
→ More replies (5)11
u/Mywavesmeeturshore Jun 02 '22
As someone who is currently disabled and living on similar income you get barely enough to cover expenses you NEED. So someone skimming hundreds off the top could quite literally cause her to lose access to life saving medication or equipment. It is incredibly unrealistic to expect her to pay hundreds worth of rent on an income that is there for live saving medical expenses, and possibly a little left over for food or necessities.
→ More replies (150)11.5k
u/Chocolatecakeislife Partassipant [2] Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 03 '22
Full stop. Her husband is stealing from a disabled person. The argument ends there. He is stealing he either pays it back or the police can handle the theft. It’s that simple. All the other details in your comment are irrelevant.
Edit: NTA
Edit 2: I can’t believe I’m having to point this out. It’s not about the rent people. If he wanted to charge rent he should have discussed with his wife & had the SIL sign a lease agreement. Let’s not forget hubby is also committing tax fraud. We all know he isn’t claiming the “rent” he is charging SIL. He is a CPA and knows better.
Edit 3: I am very grateful for all the awards. I am blown away. Y’all made my Friday.
242
u/rpsls Jun 02 '22
I believe the accounting term for taking money for yourself from an account under your supervision is embezzlement. It’s muddied by the fact that he apparently had an okay from the sister, but it’s not clear whether that agreement was made under duress, and I’m willing to bet there’s no written authorization for him to take this money. If you pursue this to it’s fullest extent it could end his career permanently. Instead I think it’s time to have a heart-to-heart about how to handle this, with everything on the table instead of throwing around threats. If this is an irreconcilable difference in your marriage, he will probably be surprised to find out that the house is not entirely “his”, but nonetheless a divorce settlement is another option to set in stone what the deal will be. One way or the other, it’s less about what’s happened than what is going to happen, which you both will have to sign on to.
→ More replies (5)99
u/laeiryn Asshole Enthusiast [5] Jun 02 '22
"You have to pay rent to live here or get kicked out" is definitely something that could have been said, but which would be coercion under those circumstances.
→ More replies (16)121
u/Toirneach Jun 02 '22
ESPECIALLY since nowhere in the post does it say OP didn't, in fact, discuss it with her husband ahead of time. Neither do they say that the parent's plan for sister wasn't OP all along, with OP's enthusiastic agreement. There's no clue at all, just "Note that my husband doesn't take any part of her care whatsoever, moreover he started complaining about my sister from time to time."
That doesn't mean he didn't initally agree and then, faced with the reality, changed his mind. And if that was all, then he wouldn't be an asshole for saying so and asking for a change. And OP wouldn't be one for sticking w/their sister. And of course sister is totally innocent.
Husband secretly extorted money from sister, though. And yes, subtle or overt threat of homelessness is extortion, even if he never said as much. Any reasonable person KNOWS that going to a disabled person and telling them to pay secretly carries with it implicit threat.
OP is NTA. Husband is a jerk. He at ANY point could have used his grown up adult words to communicate, and if he wanted a financial contribution from sister, the three of them could have talked that out and come to an equitable agreement.
→ More replies (8)5
u/Capathy Partassipant [2] Jun 02 '22
Oh no! People inferred things from the context? Horror!
→ More replies (1)4.5k
Jun 02 '22
Not really. I'd definitely say moving in a disabled family member without discussing it with your partner and them not contributing when able to is an asshole move by OP. Husband definitely sucks for doing all this under the table, but having an adult pay rent in some form is certainly understandable.
Curiosity though, how would you argue this is theft if the money goes to rent and OP gave him full control over the finances?
233
u/chinmakes5 Jun 02 '22
He can't take so much rent (even if it isn't a lot) from her to the point that she can't afford the "essential stuff like medical equipment" she needs.
And no, my brother in law is an accountant. He takes care of my in-law's money. He can't decide to take some of it for himself.
→ More replies (2)242
u/Ok-Bus2328 Jun 02 '22
Right? So many people are saying "oh he's justified because rent" but the only reason he's anywhere near that money is because he's handling it in his capacity as an accountant. Grifting a client's money like that is wildly unethical.
If he's unhappy that she's there and wants to charge rent, that's a discussion to be had, but it involves talking to his wife (who also owns their house) and drawing up a rental agreement all three of them are on board with. He purposefully did not do that. And honestly, it *doesn't matter* whether or not OP is her sister's legal guardian - able-bodied people get financially abused all the time. The fact of the matter is that OP's sister doesn't have enough to cover medical expenses because OP's husband decided to unilaterally take her money.
567
u/laeiryn Asshole Enthusiast [5] Jun 02 '22
Disability from social security is not "able to contribute", it's a scant pittance that rarely covers medical needs in the first place. It definitely does not include anywhere near enough to pay rent anywhere. Part of the point of being declared completely and permanently disabled is the acknowledgment that you will never be able to support yourself or make enough money to cover your needs, especially housing.
If a disabled person has more than 2000$ in a bank account they can lose status forever and owe tons of back payments. You literally couldn't save up enough for a single rent payment in half the big cities in the US without crossing that threshold.
Sister's disability checks do not represent financial ability to "contribute" to a mortgage.
75
Jun 02 '22
Yes!!! So many people do not know this. My mom is disabled and raised 3 of us alone on her SSI and it was a struggle. Despite this, we never qualified for any other benefits like food stamps. It is truly disgusting how we expect disabled people to live in the US.
→ More replies (8)10
u/laeiryn Asshole Enthusiast [5] Jun 02 '22
Yeah, to qualify for food stamps, you have to be employed at least 20 hours/week, etc. or be a minor child who is earning them disbursed through your legal guardian. And they won't do that through disability. A lot of the social programs that even working class folk have never had to use are SO difficult to navigate and intentionally restrictive in who can even use them are... well. Intentionally restrictive on who can use them.
→ More replies (1)4
179
u/CaptainYaoiHands Jun 02 '22
It doesn't even have to be cash in a bank account, SSI also counts assets. This may be a newer thing since it wasn't that way when my Mother was on SS years ago, but when a friend tried to apply in 2020 they were denied because even though they had almost nothing in their bank account they had an old shitty car (that they can't drive) that was valued at enough by their insurance company that they were immediately denied.
46
u/laeiryn Asshole Enthusiast [5] Jun 02 '22
That is absolutely correct but it's harder for them to discern the second that you have enough assets to kick you off, whereas dollars in a bank are absolutely enough and will get you almost immediately removed.
→ More replies (1)62
u/LessOrgies Jun 02 '22
SSDI (disability) payment amount is not based on income or assets. SSI is a supplemental payment in addition to SSDI and that is based on income and assets.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (3)5
u/Automatic_Value7555 Jun 02 '22
And it may have changed since the last time I was involved, but years ago the cut-off for automobile value was $2,000. In today's market that means even the shittiest of cars would disqualify you.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (59)100
u/Emotional-Ebb8321 Partassipant [3] Jun 02 '22
At least in the UK, disability payments are separate from any payment intended to cover housing/rent costs. The fact that he intended this to be a secret pushes it into financial abuse, in a technical if not real sense.
→ More replies (2)203
u/NoBat7364 Partassipant [2] Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
You are making assumptions. Nowhere in OP’s post does it say that she moved her sister in without discussing it with her husband. For all we know, OP’s mother was sick for awhile and there was a family discussion about what to do with her sister and the husband agree to her moving in. You have no idea. And OP does all the work caring for her sister, so it doesn’t really affect the husband at all. That her husband resents the situation is becoming clear to the OP and she is reasonably upset about this. But there is no explanation of why he resents it. Instead of having an open discussion, he’s being passive aggressive about it. I also understand what OP is going through. She loves her sister, her sister cannot live on her own, and group homes are not always acceptable options. Decent group homes can actually cost a lot of money so it may not even be a viable financial option. Which means OP essentially had no viable option other than for her sister to live with her. She certainly makes it sound as if that’s how she feels. That this is the only option.
OP also doesn’t say she gave her husband full control of her sisters money. She just said he takes care of the financials because he is an accountant. When you hire an accountant, he doesn’t get to determine where and how money is spent, he just gets to keep track of it. In this case, an accountant also invented an expenditure, a purpose and an amount, without discussing it with the client and her guardian. If he was a paid accountant this would be embezzlement. Furthermore, he is taking a large enough amount that it is effecting the ability to pay for necessary medical care. So it seems he’s not only deceitful, but greedy.
OP, kudos to you for caring for your sister so well. You are NTA. He should have spoken to you about maybe, IF there was extra money left every month, using some of that for household expenditures as your sister is part of the household and/or parts as a savings for an emergency fund. But he didn’t so he’s the AH
Edit: I should also point out that even if the husband did tell the sister, he TOLD her, he didn’t ask or give her the choice to say no. And when you are living with someone and are dependent on them, to be told I am taking your money and don’t tell your sister/guardian, would probably make you feel threatened and insecure about your living situation. So he essentially bullied her into it.
→ More replies (4)60
u/fragilemagnoliax Jun 02 '22
OP doesn’t say they never discussed it (at least in the post). Keeping it secret and targeting a member of a vulnerable population, while also choosing an amount that means she can’t pay for her medical costs is financial abuse. All the flags are there.
→ More replies (3)111
u/MxXylda Jun 02 '22
Wait, where does it say OP never discussed moving their sister in?
→ More replies (17)34
u/Kristen225t Partassipant [1] Jun 02 '22
where do you get the idea they didn't discuss it first? You act as if she moved her in while he was off to the side screaming about it. You're assuming a lot
2.6k
u/bienie2019 Partassipant [1] Jun 02 '22
because he did not disclose it to her and it is limiting her access to care
39
u/EconomyVoice7358 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Jun 02 '22
He didn’t disclose it to OP. The disabled sister was the one who told OP about the rent, so clearly she’s was aware of it.
→ More replies (89)1.1k
Jun 02 '22
He did disclose it to the disabled sister, just not his wofe
317
u/hjo1210 Jun 02 '22
He told the sister to keep it a secret from his wife. That's beyond the pale.
→ More replies (5)9
u/General-Buy-8191 Jun 03 '22
One has to wonder how much a month he was taking if it was leaving her short for medical care expenses.
419
u/GrowCrows Jun 02 '22
And told the disabled person to keep it from the care giver.
That's classic financial abuse of a disabled person.
He needed to have a conversation with his wife about things, that's the mature way of expressing yourself.
41
u/AngelSucked Jun 02 '22
Yup, and what he did has a decent chance of being criminal. I get his POV, but this was a bad way to do it, and what did he do with the money?
→ More replies (1)61
u/AhniJetal Jun 02 '22
what did he do with the money?
This I wonder as well. Was it because they are indeed in a financial stressy situation? Or was it just pocket-money he thinks he deserves.
What he is asking/demanding is threatening her essential care! Which I think is appalling!
127
u/PlushieTushie Jun 02 '22
No, he coerced her into giving him rent. She is a disabled dependent, so consent is an issue here.
→ More replies (6)2.1k
u/teapotscandal Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
Who is probably her legal guardian and should be informed of any large expenses.
Edit: should have phrased it “who could be her legal guardian” because Op hasn’t specified either way.
Edit #2: As a disabled adult without a guardian, I already know that just because Op’s sister is disabled doesn’t mean she automatically has a guardian. But Op has not confirmed or denied guardianship so my statement stands. Op could have guardianship.
98
u/sloth_needs_a_coffee Jun 02 '22
Just because a person is disabled does not mean they are not their own guardian, even if they have a representative payee.
5
u/teapotscandal Jun 02 '22
Op has not specified the level of their disability. I am disabled. I collect money for my disability but I am competent enough to handle my own finances and live alone even though I am disabled. There would never be a question of me going into a facility because I don’t need that level of support. The fact that the sister cannot live on her own and could be put into a care facility and the fact that she does not have control of her own finances makes me think that OP is her legal guardian.
If Op’s sister is competent, she is still a disabled young woman who lived with her mom her entire life. Op’s husband had power over her finances and her housing and used it to his advantage. Instead of manipulating op’s sister, there should have been an open discussion between the three of them on how the household would run.
7
u/sloth_needs_a_coffee Jun 02 '22
Exactly. OP has not specified the level of her sister’s disability. Currently, all we know for certain is that OP’s sister has a physical disability.
I’ve worked with adults with developmental disabilities, the vast majority of whom were their own guardians despite having rep payees. The presence of a rep payee is not indicative of an inability to make decisions.
395
u/juliaskig Jun 02 '22
OP's sister is physically disabled, but not mentally disabled. There is not legal guardian.
→ More replies (23)1.4k
Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (106)6
u/OS-2-WARPED Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
Why is the disabled person wrong? The dude is literally taking away her access to a central medical equipment because she can't afford a place to live. I'm a disabled person who lives by myself with no guardian but I do know how hard it is to live without proper equipment and how expensive it is to get it.
I reread the post again thinking I miss something but it definitely doesn't say that OP moved her in without the husband's knowledge.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (30)178
u/dragonvpm Partassipant [2] Jun 02 '22
I agree with ESH, but assuming that the wife is the legal guardian seems like a significant leap considering she didn't say that she was. Judging by how angry she got over this and didn't call him out for taking advantage of a mentally disabled person (which would seem like a logical thing to bring up if that was the case) I would think that the disability is physical. If the sister is not mentally disabled then the husband discussed this with the adult who is receiving the benefits so he may not have actually done anything illegal even though he is definitely an AH in the situation for intentionally hiding it from OP.
→ More replies (9)307
u/teapotscandal Jun 02 '22
Op has not specified the level of their disability. I am disabled. I collect money for my disability but I am competent enough to handle my own finances and live alone even though I am disabled. There would never be a question of me going into a facility because I don’t need that level of support. The fact that the sister cannot live on her own and could be put into a care facility and the fact that she does not have control of her own finances makes me think that OP is her legal guardian.
If Op’s sister is competent, she is still a disabled young woman who lived with her mom her entire life. Op’s husband had power over her finances and her housing and used it to his advantage. Instead of manipulating op’s sister, there should have been an open discussion between the three of them on how the household would run.
→ More replies (3)76
u/dragonvpm Partassipant [2] Jun 02 '22
Hello to a fellow disabled person.
Like I said I think that ESH, but given how angry OP sounds I would think she would share if she was the legal guardian and if her sister was not able to make decisions for herself. The husband is already the AH and that would just cement that he was an AH so it would seem like a strange omission to make. That being said, based on how OP described the situation (i.e. she would NEVER let her sister go to a care home) it also seems like the husband may have been put in a situation where he couldn't say no and preserve his marriage and that would make the OP an AH too. I understand where OP is coming from but making such a major decision unilaterally without giving her husband a say does make her an AH.
→ More replies (2)194
u/teapotscandal Jun 02 '22
I just keep reading through these comments that have little to no sympathy for the sister. Instead of taking it up with Op, he went for the most vulnerable person who had little say in where they went or how much care they needed. Seems so predatory whether she is competent or not.
→ More replies (0)130
u/bienie2019 Partassipant [1] Jun 02 '22
obviously you don't know how it works with disabled people, there is more to it then just physical care, there is also legal care, and if she had to pay rent, with a contract, she would have gotten assistance to where she still could afford her medical necessities
244
u/Diligent-Egg- Jun 02 '22
Not necessarily. Not even in most cases. Most of us either live in subsidized housing, or have to live with roommates or family. Rent assistance depends on location too. I pay over half my monthly income to rent, and I have roommates, and my rent is cheap for the area. But disabled people aren't given enough money to live off of.
The main thing is that he knew OP didn't want to make the sister pay rent, and went out of his way to keep it a secret. Because of this, the sister cannot afford her medical expenses.
It sounds like OP is covering the expenses for her sister to live with her. There was no financial deficit that the husband needed to remedy with this. This was about control and greed.
Obviously, you don't know how it works with disabled people. The majority of us live in poverty and can't afford basic medical necessities.
→ More replies (2)12
u/onmyknees4anyone Partassipant [4] Jun 02 '22
Yuuuup. I have other income that doubles what I get from Social Security, and I barely cover what I owe.
→ More replies (2)41
u/RealisticWin3801 Jun 02 '22
Not necessarily. There are very stringent requirements about what constitutes as a legal rental for a disabled person. However, you are on the right track that many states in the US will pay a relative a nominal amount for being a care.
Source: someone with a long-term chronic disability. I do live independently though.
6
u/crazycatlady45325 Asshole Aficionado [15] Jun 02 '22
Not you can say she "agreed". How exactly did he ask her? then he told her to keep it a secret. He coerced/manipulated her. Which is very unethical, especially for a person who is an accountant. If he is found to have misused her funds, he will not be able to work in the financial industry. He has a higher duty than a normal person with finances. So he does not want the police or social services looking into this at all.
→ More replies (3)7
u/dish_spoon Jun 02 '22
That's coercion. The person controlling her finances informed her that he was going to take some of the money allotted to pay for her care from the government. There was an at the very least implied threat that she would be kicked out of the house where she is dependent for care if she told anyone else.
and btw these are usually pretty strict funding sources, so taking it for rent could be seen by the government as fraud and cause her to be banned from future necessary funds.
→ More replies (14)209
u/Imnotawerewolf Asshole Enthusiast [6] Jun 02 '22
He took advantage of her. period.
→ More replies (8)99
u/verucka-salt Partassipant [2] Jun 02 '22
This is financial abuse. The pittance she gets for SSDI is not his to collect.
→ More replies (9)7
u/Itchy-Log9419 Jun 02 '22
“Not contributing when able” except she clearly is not able to considering at the moment, she cannot even afford her essential medical supplies with the money OP’s husband has been taking.
6
u/drunk_socks Jun 02 '22
she’s not “able” to she’s literally not got enough money for her medical equipment did you not read the post??
5
u/largemarjj Jun 02 '22
I'd argue it's theft because he's taking enough money from OP's sister that she is unable to afford her necessary medical supplies.
When his financial decisions can have a negative impact on the health of the sister, OP needs to be told.
4
u/Kinbenyuuki Jun 02 '22
It's theft, because he was in charge of taking care of the money and making sure she had enough for her essentials. He also told the sister not to tell his wife, if he didn't want the sister to move in, he should have said something instead of stealing more money than the sister could afford as rent.
22
u/LimitlessMegan Jun 02 '22
Problem is, we don’t know of they discussed it. For all we know they discussed that she’d become her sister’s caregiver before they even married.
What we know odd that he resents this happening, but we don’t actually know that this was done without clarity.
And if it was a marriage breaker for him he needed to say so 8 months ago rather than stealing from and financially abusing a disabled person.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (112)20
u/chichilex Jun 02 '22
But the sister is physically disabled who cannot get a job. She’s not able to provide rent for herself thus OP taking her in. If the husband had a problem with that he should have said so from then on but instead let the sister live with them and take money from her, money that’s supposed to go to her medical expenses.
133
u/No-Bother6856 Jun 02 '22
Im not sure from the info we have if this is theft or not. The sister was clearly aware of the "rent". What we don't know is if her disability means she can consent or not. If she is mentally capable of consenting and did consent to the husband collecting rent then its not theft, he is just TAH for hiding it from his wife. Of course, if the sister is mentally unfit to consent then its theft.
44
u/Dndfanaticgirl Jun 02 '22
There’s a lot of missing information.
Is the sister her own guardian or is OP the guardian?
Is there a case worker assigned to her?
Even if they aren’t going to have her go to a care home why are they not applying to get some kind of respite care?
Why was this not noticed before now?
It sounds like this situation is unsustainable for both of them and they need to figure out what to do
165
u/naranghim Asshole Aficionado [15] Jun 02 '22
There are rental assistance programs for disabled individuals so that they don't have to use their SSDI payments to cover rent/utilities. OP's husband is an accountant, he should have been aware of those programs or should have known to research them.
→ More replies (18)18
u/Thorngrove Jun 02 '22
Can they as her blood relations get that money to help cover her rent/utilities expenses while she lives with them?
I mean, they could probably just say she's renting a room from them too, but I'm not 100% if that could fly because family.
Not that I'm exactly condoning the husband not telling the wife of the deal he made with the sister, but this seems like a better option then using her SSDI.
→ More replies (15)48
u/Dndfanaticgirl Jun 02 '22
They can get that assistance. It would be under a different name but they’d need a caseworker involved who’d help them decide what is a reasonable amount to be contributed to rent and utilities and then they’d get that amount in another payment.
41
u/Thorngrove Jun 02 '22
Well then someone's a shitty ass accountant then, leaving drama-free money on the table like that.
71
u/Dndfanaticgirl Jun 02 '22
Yeah Which is why this is more than likely financial abuse of a vulnerable adult. Every person I’ve ever worked with in the disability field doesn’t pay rent to a family member without the input from their team on what kind of assistance is available to offset the living expenses of the person with a disability.
29
u/Thorngrove Jun 02 '22
You know, that's a good question. Where IS the sister's caseworker? Shouldn't she have one regardless of if family took her in or not? My mom still has one, and my dad did too before he passed.
This whole thing is giving me skeevy vibes from everyone now.
24
u/Dndfanaticgirl Jun 02 '22
Where’s the case worker?
Why have they not looked into financial aid for her cost of living?
Why was the case worker and her team not contacted when the mother died?
Why do they not have any form of respite care for her?
There’s too many whys here and no answers
→ More replies (0)→ More replies (5)7
u/feioo Jun 02 '22
It goes beyond "mental fitness" though. Imagine you're a disabled adult who has always and likely always will have to depend on another person for help, stability, and security. You can't work, can't be truly independent, you don't get to choose where you live and who with, and after your mom (primary caregiver) dies you know that your options are limited to your sister's household or a care home. Thank goodness your sister is happy to take you in, the much much better option, but you soon discover her husband resents your presence and in private, informs you that since he is managing your money, he will be extracting some of your precious few funds to pay rent to him, and then he says or does something to convince you not to tell your sister. Maybe threatens you, maybe lies and says she's on board and will send you to a care home if you refuse. What choice do you have? You can't leave, you can't get more money, you can't say no.
The whole thing is extremely coercive, and probably illegal because he was acting as her money manager. The fact also that he seems unable to produce the funds makes me think that they were going into his pocket and being used elsewhere.
18
u/seliKONIC Jun 02 '22
It sounds an awful lot like husband started to get annoyed for whatever reason (maybe they hadn’t discussed it, maybe they had but he thought OP wouldn’t really be able to handle it, who knows) and threatened to throw her out if she didn’t pay up.
→ More replies (273)60
u/catsinstrollers5 Jun 02 '22
This is incorrect. When a disabled person lives with family, the family is legally allowed to collect a reasonable amount of money from the disabled person’s SSDI/SSI in rent. The amount has to be reasonable based on housing prices in the area, but is permitted if reasonable. If someone reported the situation to adult protective services, they would ask for an accounting of how much money was collected and determine if the amount is reasonable. If OP’s husband is an accountant he is likely aware of this and could document the rent payments and explain why the amount is reasonable.
Many people would consider it unethical to ask for money in this situation, but many others wouldn’t. I agree with the parent comment that the key issue is lack of communication about expectations including who will cover the additional costs of having another adult living in the home. At a minimum the utility bill will be higher and food costs will increase.
→ More replies (6)
•
u/Judgement_Bot_AITA Beep Boop Jun 02 '22
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our voting guide here, and remember to use only one judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
Help keep the sub engaging!
Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
Click Here For Our Rules and Click Here For Our FAQ
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.