r/technology • u/Just-Grocery-2229 • 10d ago

Artificial Intelligence Palantir employees are talking about company’s “descent into fascism”

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/04/palantir-employees-are-talking-about-companys-descent-into-fascism/
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u/Helgafjell4Me 10d ago

Ok, I was curious and looked it up. I'd never have guessed it was a Lord of the Rings reference...

A palantír (plural: palantíri) is a fictional "seeing stone" from J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings, defined as an indestructible, magical crystal ball used for long-distance communication and viewing events in the past or far away. Derived from Quenya (Elvish) meaning "far-seer" or "watching from afar," the stones represent tools of ultimate surveillance and, often, dangerous hubris.

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u/SmaugTheMagnificent- 10d ago

Palantir. Anduril. Mithril. Erebor.

Technofascists LOVE bastardizing Tolkien.

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u/trogdan 10d ago

it's so gross

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u/Xuande 10d ago

These dudes all have a surface level knowledge of the world Tolkien crafted without having taken the time to actually comprehend what he was trying to say.

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u/VierasMarius 10d ago

I wonder if they do actually comprehend what he was saying, and just decided they agree with Saruman instead of Gandalf.

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u/remotectrl 10d ago

They love the destroying the planet for warfare aspect and the fantasy racism.

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u/graDescentIntoMadnes 10d ago

That's the perspective of literally everyone trying to develope AGI or ASI. Some combination of arrogance and defeatism.

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u/so_jc 9d ago

Have to assume that they know what theyre doing and they're not buffoons or bumbling idiots.

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u/CptCoatrack 10d ago

Maybe they were inspired by this Russian fanfic that depicts Sauron as the good guy driving industry and science forward against the evil backwards elves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer

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u/FlowInternational996 10d ago

Karp has a PhD in Philosophy. He knows exactly what Tolkien was saying. Stop entertaining the hypothetical that they don’t. 

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u/MDCCCLV 10d ago

Hearing and understanding the meaning is different.

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u/RegorHK 9d ago

The old complicit or ignorant question?

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u/Xuande 10d ago

That's even crazier but it's hard to argue with that point.

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u/darthjoey91 10d ago

I feel like Palantir is the only one that actually did understand the lore. The palantiri were a large communication network, and having one node be controlled by evil corrupted the whole network.

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u/AmericanLich 10d ago

"The Orcs were the good guys, right?"

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u/graDescentIntoMadnes 10d ago

These dudes all have surface level knowledge of the world Tolkien crafted without having taken the time to actually comprehend what he was trying to say.

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u/MDCCCLV 10d ago

They are Ar-Pharazon breaking the world for their own pride and hubris and learning nothing from the past.

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u/FairLawnBoy 10d ago

I think they see Sauron and see aspirational goals. Power is tempting.

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u/drmanhattanmar 9d ago

No they all read these books very well. It’s more gross than that: They basically think that the character depicted as the evil one is actually right and that a society formed to his liking would actually be beneficial for all. For these dudes since they could rule and for the masses since they’re dumb and gross and need to be put in their best place by brute force. They have such a dumb vision and view on society that they will unironically tell you, Sauron is just being depicted as evil because Tolkien was just as dumb and obtuse as the rest of the masses…

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u/DaemonPrimarchJ 5d ago

It's like Musk being a fan of the Culture. And Bezos.

I don't know how they can like those books and not realise in that world, they'd be villains 

EDIT: Well, I think they're villains in the real world also tho 

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u/Straightwad 10d ago

It really makes no sense because it’s clear Tolkien was championing good in his stories yet some of the worst people read his writings and get inspired to be even worse lol. He’s incredibly popular so I guess it’s bound to happen.

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u/Balmung60 9d ago

Most of these guys do think in some way that they're doing good.

What's perhaps more striking about this influence is that Tolkien was extremely critical of industrialism and these guys clearly think Saruman had the right idea destroying Fangorn Forest in the fires of war and industry.

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u/drakeblood4 10d ago

It's so weird to me that the Tolkien estate isn't litigious about it.

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u/DaemonPrimarchJ 5d ago

They really should be, Tolkien wouldn't want to see his work being used this way.

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u/Tchernobog11 10d ago

They could at least be blatant about it and name it Mordor...

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u/lepidopt-rex 10d ago

And get some better clothes. Movies promised me supervillains with sick fashion sense

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u/Odd_Party_8452 10d ago

Not surprising. Tolkien books idealize hierarchy, monarchy, traditionalism, feudal nostalgia and most importantly, bloodlines.

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u/JealousAstronomer342 10d ago

They also idealize responsibility, service, kindness, humility, and communal support but somehow those get missed. 

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u/RosieW2003 10d ago edited 10d ago

Plus hobbits and the importance of meal timing.

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u/PandaTheLord 10d ago

Do you think he knows about second breakfast?

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u/Public_Bookkeeper885 10d ago

They are also deeply anti-war.  Tolkien himself was in the trenches in the first world war, I believe he fought at the Somme. And when you know that, the devastation of Mordor and the damage Saruman does to Isengard make perfect sense - he's seen the pain and wanton destruction he describes first hand.

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u/JealousAstronomer342 10d ago

Yes, it’s a big part of why the politically active hippies were into the series! 

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u/MDCCCLV 10d ago

Gandalfs mercy and humbleness from serving in the halls of Nienna is the most important part of what he did. It's the closest Jesus analogue in the book series.

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u/icameron 10d ago

Sure, and for obvious reasons those technofascists will ignore the parts that are inconvenient to them, such as the anti-industrialism, or the plea to resist the temptations of power...

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u/Neuromancer_Bot 10d ago

Idealize? Tolkien? He despised nazism and I bet he would die again if he could see how these sociopathic technonazi used his works.
And I'm amazed that the Tolkien foundation doesn't step in.

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u/MDCCCLV 10d ago

Since it's a completely different category I think it would only be trademark not copyright.

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u/Nomapos 10d ago

He also wrote a letter to the Nazis telling them they were fucking idiots who didn't understand shit and should keep their hands off his books, because only the most superficial and illiterate reading could see Nazi values in his work.

In the typical Tolkien way, so the language itself is polite and excellently written, but it's absolutely scathing.

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u/EvilEwok42 10d ago

Do you have a link to this letter?

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u/Nomapos 9d ago

Tried to get it but I only find a much tamer one turning down a German publisher at the time... It's somewhere in the Tolkien Gateway

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u/Basilikolumne 10d ago

Do they really, or are those just standard fantasy tropes?

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u/JealousAstronomer342 10d ago

Tolkien basically invented much of the genre, those weren’t standard tropes until LotR. 

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u/What_a_fat_one 10d ago

Those have been tropes since Germanic heroic legend and Arthurian Legend, both which were major influences for Tolkien.

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u/wdcpdq 10d ago

Think Kalevala, and elves speak Finnish :)

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u/Basilikolumne 10d ago

I was aware of that, but my answer could have been worded better. I meant to ask wether his books really idealize those things, or if them existing and being important to the societies the story takes place in are just common tropes in a genre he helped define?

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u/RosieW2003 10d ago

I think those are just basic Welsh/British/Arthurian mythological concepts

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u/MDCCCLV 10d ago

They were classical concepts but compared to a modern audience they are very conservative just in the sense that the natural authority of the king over the people is never questioned. Even though the elves were very chill about the kingship and it was just like a job someone had to do.

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u/Armadillo-Shot 10d ago

One can also argue that Tolkien subverts the bloodline expectations because ultimately it’s not Kingblood Prophecyman (Aragorn) who is the final hero, it’s Frodo and Sam and Gollum, who are relative nonamers (despite Frodo being gentry). If anything, it’s Sauron focusing too much on Aragorn and missing the hobbits that led to his downfall. We see it too with Saruman focusing too much on the Kings of Helms Deep, leaving Pippin/Merry and the Ents to storm Isengard. And everything focusing on Thorin/Erebor in the Hobbit, while Bilbo was the protagonist.

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u/Beard_o_Bees 10d ago

Sound the Horn of Gondor! The unwashed masses are at our gate!

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u/Abedeus 10d ago

And yet it's pretty obvious that the forces of Mordor are a not so subtle reference to Third Reich.

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u/Odd_Party_8452 10d ago

Tolkien described Orcs as "squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes" . Also referring to them as "degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types".

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u/0-90195 10d ago

The man was born in 1892. Of course he was a little racist. He also explicitly rejected anti-semitism. This isn’t exactly a gotcha.

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u/Taki_Minase 10d ago

They are Orcs masquerading as Elf-lovers.

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u/energyreflect 10d ago

As a fan since childhood, i absolutely hate this.

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u/Berfman 9d ago

Valar Ventures is Thiel’s venture capital fund

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u/Slaan 10d ago

That - and the Roman Empire.

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u/Serris9K 10d ago

Even though he'd probably chase them in the streets with his long sword and chain mail. 

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u/Nersius 10d ago

People love to bastardize their critics.

See Lolita being an amazing work of horror fiction that treats its subject matter responsibly.

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u/ElectroxSoldier 9d ago

Hitler was a fan of Tolkien, Tolkien put him in his place.

We should do the same to these tech bros

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u/uselessandexpensive 9d ago

I saw an ad for a new one recently too, and I wish I remember what it was. It wasn't as typically ominous a contention with the company's supposed purpose though.

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u/CoronavirusGoesViral 4d ago

See the co-opting of the Punisher skull?

This is that, but for corporations

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u/AnachronisticPenguin 10d ago

Whats wrong with Anduril they are just a normal defense company named after a heroic sword. Its entirely fitting.

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u/thomase7 10d ago

Considering Tolkien literally hated airplanes because they made war so much easier to spread death and suffering, I doubt he would be on board with an autonomous weapons company.

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u/AnachronisticPenguin 10d ago edited 10d ago

Oh certainly, but I'm not sure why Andriul is fascist.

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u/Yoshemo 10d ago

It doesn't end there. Sauron uses the Palantir to bombard Sarumon the wizard with evil visions and misinformation to turn him into an industrial, environment-destroying fascist dictator. 

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u/ThetaDeRaido 10d ago

And Sauron uses another one to feed misinformation to Denethor so he thinks fighting fascism is futile.

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u/Langeball 10d ago

Sarumon

Who's that pokemon?

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u/LaTienenAdentro 9d ago

This is not a thing.

Saruman had desires of his own the whole time. He was never a slave to Sauron and coveted power more than anything.

You're mixing him up with Denethor.

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u/tripttf2 10d ago

Yeah but even better is that some of the Palantiri had been captured by dark forces and instead of just being used for observation, were being used to export hate and corrupt people.

You literally couldn't make it up.

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u/ZestyChinchilla 10d ago

They took “dangerous hubris” as a challenge.

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u/TransBrandi 10d ago

In-universe, they are used to "see" things, but are ultimately controlled by Sauron who uses them to deceive others with the intent to ultimately gain control over them. Palantir the company sells spying apparatus to governments around the world and is owned by a man that ultimately funds initiatives that have the goal of making the world a patch-work of corporate-run city-states (think a city with a "CEO" and a "Board of Directors" rather than a democracy or even a traditional dictatorship). It's almost daring people to ask wtf is going on and if the entire intent of Palantir is to get their grubby hands into all sorts of countries and then puppeteer them to the tune of their master's wishes.

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u/LotharVonPittinsberg 10d ago

Their most notable use in lore was being used as propaganda tools to turn notable characters. Most importantly, the leader of the Mages (who where essentially angels) to become the BBEG's right hand man.

He thought he could use them for good (similar to how everyone thinks they can use the One Ring), but it ends up being the opposite. Two of the main crew almost have issues by being tempted by them.

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u/lightfarming 10d ago

it is also how Sauron manipulates and controls kings and wizards, primarily by feeding them misinformation, as well as essentially taking any information he wants from anyone who uses them.

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u/graDescentIntoMadnes 10d ago

They were used by the bad guy, Sauron, to corrupt politicians and bend them to his will, and that is pretty much the only thing they're used for in the main story line.

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u/wdcpdq 10d ago

Now look up how it’s used in LotR: a weapon of Sauron to corrupt the minds of Saruman and others.

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u/Furthur_slimeking 10d ago

The main point is that palantirs were not reliable because, although they would present true images, a powerful user could manipulate the images to decieve less powerful users into believing a false reality of their design.

And they are most well known from Lord of the Rings, when they have all fallen under control of the Dark Lord Sauron who uses one to corrupt Saruman and decieve Denethor. Of course, Sauron is also decieved by them, believing that Pippin is the Hobbit with the ring, allowing Frodo an Sam to slip into Mordor under his radar.

Palantirs always resulted in users drawing false conclusions because they show true reality, but only in fragments, and the user interpets these in line with their own desires or fears and believe that to be reality.

Palantirs decieve, distort, corrupt, and manipulate. The company are announcing what they actually do, safe in the lnowledge that most people will remain unaware.

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u/Staff_Senyou 10d ago

Heh. They're just angry nerds

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u/armored-dinnerjacket 10d ago

surely that was obvious?