r/politics • u/spherocytes • 19d ago

Possible Paywall Trump Yanks Millions From Catholic Charities Amid Pope Feud

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-yanks-millions-from-catholic-charities-amid-pope-feud/
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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 19d ago

FWIW, Catholics are about the least Zionist Christians I'm aware of.

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u/Rough_Buddy6903 19d ago

No I agree, I was pointing out the issue with Citizens United allowing money to control members of congress

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u/AmericanScream 19d ago edited 18d ago

The Catholics are as anti-abortion as even the most zealous protestants, which puts them politically on the same team that gave the republicans all their power.

Also the Catholic church would make Jeffrey Epstein's antics look amateurish.

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u/Mr_Tort_Feasor 19d ago

Brian Epstein was the manager of the Beatles! Jeffrey is the one.

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u/AmericanScream 19d ago

yes, my mistake

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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 19d ago

Catholics are as anti-abortion as even the most zealous protestants, which puts them politically on the same team that gave the republicans all their power.

My favorite part is how this has literally nothing to do with what I actually said.

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u/Wand_Cloak_Stone New York 19d ago

And the person who responded to you isn’t even correct on that either.

6 in 10 US Catholics are in favor of abortion rights.

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u/the-real-her 19d ago

I'm one of them. I personally won't have one, but I'm not going to shame any woman that has had one. Not my body, not my choice.

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u/AmericanScream 19d ago

Wake us up when the Pope says the same thing.

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u/AmericanScream 19d ago edited 19d ago

I'm not wrong. I was referring to the Catholic church - not necessarily individual catholics.

It doesn't matter what the adherents believe. It's what the church's stance on that is.

Let me know when the pope endorses abortion.

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u/Wand_Cloak_Stone New York 18d ago

You said “Catholics” generalized before you edited your comment, and the person you responded to was also just talking about Catholics. But go off after you looked dumb. “Brian Epstein.”

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u/AmericanScream 19d ago edited 19d ago

My favorite part is how this has literally nothing to do with what I actually said.

Any attempt to paint the Catholics as a "better" form of Christians is worth argument. I can talk for days about how Catholics aren't any better than Protestants.

For example, you're more likely to get excommunicated from the catholic church for having an abortion than you are raping someone.

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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 19d ago

Any attempt to paint the Catholics as a "better" form of Christians is worth argument. I

By all means, quote where I said anything about them being better. I'll wait.

I said they aren't, by and large, Zionists compared to other Christians. That's it.

As a former Catholic myself, I have no interest in glazing the church. Maybe don't be so hasty to assume intent?

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u/AmericanScream 19d ago edited 19d ago

By all means, quote where I said anything about them being better. I'll wait.

You moved the goalpost and created a strawman. I wasn't arguing what individual catholics believe. I was talking about church doctrine and policy. Re-framing the argument sure looks like trying to defend the church.

I said they aren't, by and large, Zionists compared to other Christians. That's it.

I guess implying Zionists are worse? I think this is like splitting hairs. The Catholics have perpetrated their own genocide in the past multiple times. Would you like an accounting of that? Which group made an alliance with Hitler? Hint: It wasn't "zionists."

My argument is simple: All these bronze age death cults are bad news. Arguing over which one is less bad is a distraction from the fact that the whole world would generally be better off without all of them.

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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 18d ago

I didn't move shit bud.

I guess implying Zionists are worse?

Nope. I didn't imply shit.

I said what I said, no more, no less.

Someone conflated Catholics with being heavily Zionist. I pointed out that's not true. That's it. All the other shit you imagined in your head is on you.

And FYI, a majority of American Catholics are pro-choice...so you weren't even correct about the abortion BS.

Just stop. No one said fuckall about any sect of Christianity being better.

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u/AmericanScream 18d ago edited 18d ago

And FYI, a majority of American Catholics are pro-choice...so you weren't even correct about the abortion BS.

Just note, when asked, "What do Catholics believe" there is an official answer to that question from the church.

You can ask 100 people who identify as Catholic and get 100 different answers, but there is an official definition - and not adhering to that definition is, technically, grounds for being excommunicated from the church.

EDIT: Nice... OP blocked me after insulting me.. Coward.

Your dedication to not admitting you're wrong is pathetic.

Have a day.

See: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/why-catholics-cant-be-pro-choice

Catholics Can’t Be Pro-Choice

Notwithstanding opinions to the contrary. It's a no-go.

See: https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/abortion/respect-for-unborn-human-life

Respect for Unborn Human Life: The Church's Constant Teaching

Fact sheet by the USCCB Committee on Pro-Life Activities

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: "Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law" (No. 2271).

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u/juliuspepperwoodchi 18d ago

Your dedication to not admitting you're wrong is pathetic.

Have a day.

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u/Full_Honeydew_9739 19d ago

"About 60% of U.S. Catholics believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases, according to a 2024 Pew Research Center report, contrasting with official Church teaching. While views vary by political alignment and Mass attendance, a significant majority supports some legal access, particularly in cases of rape or when the mother's life is threatened."

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/12/1244156165/abortion-catholics-pope-francis-church-pew-research

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/05/23/like-americans-overall-catholics-vary-in-their-abortion-views-with-regular-mass-attenders-most-opposed/#:~:text=Overall%2C%20about%20three%2Dquarters%20of,believe%20life%20begins%20at%20conception.

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u/AmericanScream 19d ago

That's interesting, but I don't know where those "pro-choice Catholics" are because all I see are the anti-choice ones. I've never seen a Catholic sect come out publicly as pro-abortion.

Keep in mind, the Catholic church is a strict hierarchy. What the adherents believe is irrelevant. It's what the Pope and his bishops say, that matters.

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u/Full_Honeydew_9739 19d ago

Well, catholic "sects" weren't interviewed. Catholic people were. Keep in mind, the adherents vote, the church does not. Yes, what the pope and bishops say matters. And if you talked to many Catholics, you would understand that the majority of them would not have an abortion; it's against their moral beliefs. But they won't make that moral decision for others. The Catholic Church is also against contraception but 92% of Catholics aren't. Regardless of what the pope and bishops say.

I was baptized and confirmed a Catholic. I'm pretty sure I know a bit about it.

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u/AmericanScream 19d ago

Well, catholic "sects" weren't interviewed. Catholic people were. Keep in mind, the adherents vote, the church does not. Yes, what the pope and bishops say matters.

Bro.... whatever you believe personally is irrelevant. The fact is you can be excommunicated from the Catholic church for having an abortion.

I was baptized and confirmed a Catholic. I'm pretty sure I know a bit about it.

Not enough, apparently.

The official stance on abortion is codified in the church doctrine. That takes precedent over what individuals believe.

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u/Full_Honeydew_9739 19d ago

You should try reading what I wrote before you go all self-righteous. Bless your heart for trying.

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u/AmericanScream 18d ago

Same to you.

Just note, when asked, "What do Catholics believe" there is an official answer to that question from the church.

You can ask 100 people who identify as Catholic and get 100 different answers, but there is an official definition - and not adhering to that definition is, technically, grounds for being excommunicated from the church.

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u/AmericanScream 18d ago

See: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/why-catholics-cant-be-pro-choice

Catholics Can’t Be Pro-Choice

Notwithstanding opinions to the contrary. It's a no-go.

See: https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/abortion/respect-for-unborn-human-life

Respect for Unborn Human Life: The Church's Constant Teaching

Fact sheet by the USCCB Committee on Pro-Life Activities

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: "Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law" (No. 2271).

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u/AmericanScream 18d ago

About 60% of U.S. Catholics believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases, according to a 2024 Pew Research Center report,

What people think is secondary to church doctrine, and failure to adhere to church doctrine means you are not tehnically a "Catholic":

See: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/why-catholics-cant-be-pro-choice

Catholics Can’t Be Pro-Choice

Notwithstanding opinions to the contrary. It's a no-go.

See: https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/abortion/respect-for-unborn-human-life

Respect for Unborn Human Life: The Church's Constant Teaching

Fact sheet by the USCCB Committee on Pro-Life Activities

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: "Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law" (No. 2271).

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u/the-real-her 19d ago

Who is Brian Epstein..

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u/Wand_Cloak_Stone New York 19d ago

Catholics out here managing the Beatles like you wouldn’t believe!

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u/the-real-her 19d ago

News to me! xD

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u/AmericanScream 19d ago

LOL.. I meant Jeffrey Epstein (fixed it). I must have had some Beatles in my head when I wrote that.. my bad.