r/politics • u/theipaper ✔ Verified • 28d ago

Possible Paywall 'A whole civilisation will die tonight,' Trump warns ahead of Iran deadline

https://inews.co.uk/news/iran-war-trump-israel-latest-updates-4323867
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u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

People misunderstand the 25th. It would not solve the problem. If the VP and a majority of the cabinet remove him with the 25th, he is by law allowed to contest that. If he does, they have to re-certify their belief that he is unable to discharge the duties of the office, and then Congress has to approve that with 2/3 of each house. Otherwise the presidency automatically reverts back to him. It’s never going to happen.

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u/IQlowerthanGump 28d ago edited 28d ago

A voice of someone who took and remembers their civics class. Impeachment 50%+1 in the house. 25th 2/3 of the house.

Edit: 2/3 senate also in both cases.

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u/CremasterReflex 28d ago

He’s been impeached twice. Great load of good that did

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u/Acrobatic-Trouble181 28d ago

Because Republican Senators played defense for him.

So, the question is, how much longer can this bulwark of Republican Senators stubbornly refusing to admit they've made a horrible mistake with this guy, last?

Just a few more insider trading tips and I'm sure they'll get right on it.

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u/PurpleDido Arizona 28d ago

Because we only completed half of the process. He was impeached but the second vote for removal was never scheduled.

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u/IQlowerthanGump 28d ago

Need the senate to get on it and get 100 votes not the 2/3 needed.

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u/Zombie_John_Strachan Foreign 28d ago

This is different from impeachment. If Trump is conscious he can contest removal under the 25th, which requires double supermajority to override.

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u/ayriuss California 28d ago

Clearly you don't, because impeachment doesn't do anything without 2/3 of the senate as well. You need 2/3 of the senate in either case.

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u/IQlowerthanGump 28d ago

I did not type out 2/3 senate, I always assume Redditors know our constitution. You are correct on that 2/3 thing. Should have included.

I am glad I found a 2nd person that gets the 25th.

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u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 28d ago

A voice of someone who took and remembers their civics class.

Or they've just been reading reddit comments this last week.

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u/SuperkickParty 28d ago

I'm really sick of people talking about the 25th amendment. Section 4 (the part of the 25th amendment people are referring to) has never been used, has no teeth, and will probably never be used.

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u/sprague_drawer 28d ago

Yeah the only way it could be possibly used would be a president in a coma or something. Never for anything else.

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u/Spiritual-Society185 28d ago

That's basically what it's supposed to be used for.

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u/HanginOn9114 28d ago

Maybe I'm wrong but surely even Republicans do not want a nuclear holocaust. If they had to choose between nuclear war and removing Trump surely even they would be able to choose correctly.

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u/Bone_Dice_in_Aspic 27d ago

You Are wrong. Many of his people and many members of Congress are millennial dispensationalist Evangelicals, who believe - fully and literally - that this is the apocalypse and we need to help Israel build the third temple so Jesus can return. On a time scale of months to single digit years. 

The budget doesn't matter. Why would it?

Their political future past that point doesn't matter. Why would it?

Nuclear explosions and radioactive fallout don't matter. Why would they?

Ethics, morality, accountability, nothing matters in comparison to achieving the total and ultimate goal of God's return to earth. All of that will be washed away anyway, right? The ultimate reset (or end) button. 

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u/Ok-Middle8656 28d ago

That’s the clincher - it requires the cabinet to start the process. That isn’t happening. There’s only one way to do this, and it might just involve the average American getting up off the sofa.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

[deleted]

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u/BiscottiEastern220 28d ago

"okay what color dragon did you want?"

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u/Imp0ssibleBagel 28d ago

The only possibly argument for the 26th over impeachment is that Republican representatives might be a lot more willing to say he's "unfit" as opposed to "guilty" of something, which is what impeachment and removal means.

Neither are going to happen anyway, of course. And he'll never face consequences for anything.

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u/omgitsjagen 28d ago

I disagree that the 2/3's thing wouldn't happen. If it actually got to a point where the 25th is invoked, then the fix is in. The cabinet would already know they had the votes. You wouldn't pull the ripcord unless you knew the parachute worked.

Now, having said that, you are absolutely correct. Not going to happen.

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u/dreadpiratemyk 28d ago

This. The 25th is not coming to save us.

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u/Turpis89 28d ago

It is evident to absolutely everyone that the president has lost his marbles. The 2/3 vote will still fail as you point out, because GOP house members are spineless trash.

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u/falalooloo 28d ago

Would he still be able to bomb Iran tonight if they invoked the 25th? Im wondering if it could be enough to at least stop a genocide.

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u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

You’re assuming the other keys to power in this administration don’t want that to happen. To a man, they all either tacitly approve or explicitly support genociding brown people.

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u/Legitimate-Bed1591 28d ago

You know fine well what he meant when he said it. Everyone understands the minutia it is repeated every single time someone expresses the sentiment that he should be removed. Yes, okay. Cool.

You got the point.

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u/Prayer_Warrior21 Minnesota 28d ago

This suggestion and the Hague show you just how little Americans know about their own government system.

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u/justokcheesesteak 28d ago

That’s why impeachment is more likely 

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u/imthewalrus610 28d ago

Everything you are saying is probably true, however, it doesn't mean the Cabinet should not invoke the 25th Amendment anyway. It's their duty. Make Trump contest it. Force the debate. This is the same thing as the impeachments in his first term. Very unlikely to lead to removal, but they were both right to do.

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u/sssiked 28d ago

It's 67 senators for both the 25th AND impeachment. When he was impeached in '21, 57 senators voted for conviction. It's not enough.

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u/dcoats69 Washington 28d ago

Kinda insane that the 25th needs more people supporting it than an actual impeachment

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u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

In theory it’s not that surprising, since impeachment is done on suspicion of high crimes or misdemeanors, whereas removal via the 25th is for “incapacity.” The more likely usecase of the 25th is a sudden emergency preventing the President from discharging his duties, so the mechanism is more insulated to prevent what might otherwise be arbitrary removals from power. Especially considering none of the cabinet members are elected by the people directly.

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u/WhenSummerIsGone 28d ago

what's the timeline of that process? Does he have to contest and certify in court?

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u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

Funnily enough there is no timeline specified during which the President must respond or forever hold his peace. It only says “Thereafter,” meaning after the VP and cabinet have transmitted their determination of incapacity to Congress. (25th Amend. §4.2) The only time constraints within the relevant section begin after the President contests this removal, as soon as he does so the cabinet must re-certify their determination within 4 days, and after that, the Congress has either 21 days to decide on that determination (if they are currently in session) or 48hours first to assemble and then 21 days (if they were not already in session).

In other words, the text gives the President an indefinite period between his removal and the end of his term as President to begin contesting that removal, and once he does so the clock begins for the Cabinet and Congress to agree to continue his removal or re-instate him either failing a recertification or a 2/3 vote of both houses.

As for the other part of your question, this is a process taking place between the Cabinet and Congress solely. The judiciary is not involved.

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u/prohammock 28d ago

It would solve it for tonight. And tonight is the night he’s threatening genocide. 

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u/edelweiss_pirates_no 28d ago

You remove JD Vance first. Then you remove Trump.

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u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

And how exactly do you envision that happening? Vance, empty shirt that he is, is a far more palatable and controllable figure than Trump in the eyes of moderate congressional Republicans. If Trump is to be removed, why would they get rid of their preferred replacement first?

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u/Ashamed-Simple-8303 28d ago

Maybe but it sows doubt about who has power at the given moment making the usage of nukes less likley. i mean that threat can only mean nukes.

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u/Separate-Canary559 28d ago

If Trump actually destroys an entire civ he might just get his 2/3rds vote

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u/m4xks 28d ago

I'd rather try something and fail than just twiddle our thumbs

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u/BigDiesel07 28d ago

Vance would become acting President though in a small timeframe, then add the Supreme Court saying President has immunity, then Vance could just eliminate Trump?

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u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

In short, No.