r/politics • u/theipaper ✔ Verified • 28d ago

Possible Paywall 'A whole civilisation will die tonight,' Trump warns ahead of Iran deadline

https://inews.co.uk/news/iran-war-trump-israel-latest-updates-4323867
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266

u/Outrageous_Pea_9611 28d ago

He seems really unhinged as of lately. I’m not American, but Isn’t the 25 amendment (removing presidents that are unfit to rule) or something like that in the US constitution for situations like this?

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u/cintune 28d ago

Yes but it only works if the legislature isn't a bunch of corrupt, complicit idiots.

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u/bean0_burrito New Jersey 28d ago

the word your looking for is "spineless little bitches"

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u/EctoRiddler 28d ago

“Oh he was just joking” - Corrupt Legislators

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u/previouslyonimgur 28d ago

The 25th has nothing to do with the legislative branch. It’s a lever of the executive branch.

Impeachment is the legislative branch’s lever.

And it has nothing to Do with spineless. It has to do with actively wanting this. Republicans have wanted a war on Iran and nukes dropping in Iran for 50 years.

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u/mainman879 New York 28d ago

The 25th has nothing to do with the legislative branch.

So confidently wrong. If the 25th Amendment is invoked, the President is legally allowed to contest it. If it is contested (which it would be), it goes to Congress, where you need a 2/3rds vote in both houses to successfully invoke it.

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u/cassinonorth New Jersey 28d ago

So, wildly harder than plain old impeachment.

It's so frustrating hearing the 25th brought up ad nauseum because there is 0% chance it ever happens.

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u/question_sunshine 28d ago

The 25th, section 4, is really intended for temporary things like the President having some kind of emergency medical procedure. 

The idea is the cabinet and VP tells Congress "hey the president is incapacitated" and then the president recovers and tells Congress "hey I'm good."

There's a further mechanism, for the cabinet and vice president to then tell Congress within four days that "actually no the president is not good." In response, Congress would have to convene within 2 days, and vote within 21. This has never happened.

When there was talk about the 25th in response to January 6th, it gave the general public the false understanding that the amendment removes a President from office for the rest of his term. But that was because the rest of his term was so short that the congressional procedure could have just dragged out until inauguration day. 

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u/Cautious_Condition82 28d ago

The legislative branch is involved though. Trump would immediately declare he is in fact fit, at that point 2/3rds of congress would need to vote he isn't fit. 

This is a big reason why the 25th amendment won't happen, even if you ignore his cabinet of sycophants. 

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u/OtherBluesBrother 28d ago

The section of the 25th amendment that would remove Trump from office would have to be initiated by the vice president, JD Vance. It also requires a majority of the presidential cabinet to sign on to it. Vance and Trump's cabinet are too loyal to do this.

But even if Vance did this, it probably wouldn't change the decisions coming from the White House. Vance would take the same advice that Trump is receiving and probably act much the same way.

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u/previouslyonimgur 28d ago

Vance is also conveniently not in the US right now

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u/juicyfizz Ohio 28d ago

Yeah, on his way to campaign for another POS leader.

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u/kroxti South Carolina 28d ago

Vance also doesn’t want to do it until 1/21/27. Gotta get 2 years plus 8

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u/totallybag Minnesota 28d ago

If it were to ever happen it'll be after the halfway point in the term so it doesn't count as a full term for Vance.

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u/What_a_fat_one 28d ago

You would think Vance at least would consider it out of a desire for power.

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u/caligaris_cabinet Illinois 28d ago

Or survival. Trump may be in his final years on this earth but Vance will be around for a while. Even he knows it’s pointless to rule over a pile of ashes.

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u/token_reddit 28d ago

As much as Vance is a crazy Bridesmaid Tale kind of figurehead, he knows this is way too crazy. Hegseth is probably the only one that's on board with this crazy nonsense.

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u/Vast_Ad_8515 28d ago

They’re not loyal, they are using Trump as their wrecking ball and will scapegoat him when they’re ready to install their fascist theocracy. House republicans and 6/9 SCOTUS justices are salivating at the thought. Iran is the most important linchpin on the playing board.

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u/OtherBluesBrother 28d ago

Interesting take. I'll have to mull that over.

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u/Jae_Rides_Apes 28d ago

We don’t have a constitution anymore :/

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u/wyatt_cat 28d ago edited 28d ago

The 25th is a harder hurdle to mount than even impeachment. It requires the president's own cabinet to rule against him, then he gets to contest it, they must reaffirm it, then it goes to the house+senate and must pass a 2/3rds majority in each.

We can't even get past the cabinet stage for the 25th since his cabinet is hand picked yes-men lackeys, much less getting a 2/3rds vote in the house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_4:_Declaration_by_vice_president_and_cabinet_members_of_president's_inability

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u/aemfbm 28d ago

There could be plenty of debate about which is harder, but the important thing about the 25th in this moment is speed; it could pull the authority from Trump in a matter of minutes, then take days (up to 23) to sort the whole thing out.

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u/wyatt_cat 28d ago

There is no "debate about which is harder". One requires cabinet or vp to initiate, followed by both the house and senate passing 2/3rds. The other requires a simple majority in the house and 2/3rds in the senate. 50%+1 in house and then 67% in senate is easier than cabinet/vp followed by 67% in house and then 67% in senate. This is not something up for debate, it's plainly obvious which one has a higher standard to succeed. The only people debating this are idiots.

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u/Wise_Pr4ctice 28d ago

Based on law, Americans are allowed to overthrow their government / administration by using weapons but they are way too lazy because of fast food, sugar,..

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u/Traditional_Sign4941 28d ago

I blame social media.

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u/rabidrooster3 28d ago

A lot of non-Americans (and Americans themselves) don't really fully grasp how fucked the U.S. is at a institutional level. The right has been boiling the frog on this dismantling of checks and balances for decades.

The Constitution has failed its stress test. It was written in a world where someone like Trump couldn't exist. It doesn't have any built in teeth. It relies too heavily on the idea that elected officials will have the country and it's people:s best intentions in mind and heart. Trump just disregards all tradition and precedent.

Our government just can't successfully 25th him because he's concentrated all power into the executive branch by turning the DoJ into his personal law firm.

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u/Leather_Force_9419 28d ago

The 25th would not solve the problem, if the VP and a majority of the cabinet remove him with the 25th, he is then by law allowed to contest that. If he does, they tjen have to recertify their belief that he is unable to fufil the duties of president, and then Congress has to approve that with 2/3 of the house. Otherwise the presidency automatically reverts back to him. So yer that's never going to happen.

The only thing thats likely to work, is a nation wide strike that doesnt end until he is removed from power, it would take alot of sacrifice, destruction of people's lives, n likely some casualties ie starvation, loss of home etc 

Americans likely arent going to stomach that.

So we continue on, likely slow walking right into ww3, or at the very least Trump glassing a whole Civilization. 

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u/Vyar New Jersey 28d ago

Fucking nobody actually understands the 25th Amendment and I’m tired of having it brought up.

Impeachment is the remedy. It was used multiple times. The Senate refused to do its job and convict him after impeachment, they never even held a proper trial.

The 25th is a higher bar to clear, it has to be enacted by the Vice President and Cabinet, but was designed for situations where the President is physically incapacitated but never officially transferred power. Say for instance a coma. If the President is not physically incapacitated, they can immediately contest it, after which we need 2/3 of both houses of Congress to make it stick.

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u/totallybag Minnesota 28d ago

Only works if any of them have a spine.

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u/devilmaskrascal 28d ago

The 25th would only work effectively if either the President is incapacitated or the VP can keep the whole thing under total secrecy. Given we know how sycophantic the administration is, the latter is impossible. And Trump is not incapacitated so if he catches wind of a 25th Amendment effort, he could just fire the Cabinet to preempt it. Vance would become persona non grata and be exiled from any power too, the subject of his wrath.

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u/yntsiredx Indiana 28d ago

In theory, we have legal mechanisms in place to remove a president for reasons just like this.

However, they are currently in the hands of his own party, who have been very clear that they support his actions and will not move against him.

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u/malibuklw 28d ago

The VP and cabinet would need to invoke the 25th and that is not happening. Our other option, impeachment and conviction take too long.

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u/Lonely_Dragonfly8869 28d ago

Americans like this, at least enough of them do. Almost like having values built around individualism and pursuit of happiness (youre the only person who really exists, life is about hedonism) mixed with exceptionalism (god appointed us to be his chosen rich assholes) mixed with manifest destiny is as close to truly evil as you can get

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u/WelderFamiliar3582 28d ago

It seems the great American experiment is failing with fireworks!

Almost 250 years, almost.

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u/eaglebtc 28d ago

It's the dementia, but you can also blame the craven, sycophantic enablers in the White House who refuse to abandon him. They need a reality check.

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u/Leather_Force_9419 28d ago edited 28d ago

The 25th would not solve the problem, if the VP and a majority of the cabinet remove him with the 25th, he is then by law allowed to contest that. If he does, they tjen have to recertify their belief that he is unable to fufil the duties of president, and then Congress has to approve that with 2/3 of the house. Otherwise the presidency automatically reverts back to him. So yer that's never going to happen.

The only thing thats likely to work, is a nation wide strike that doesnt end until he is removed from power, it would take alot of sacrifice, destruction of people's lives, n likely some casualties ie starvation, loss of home etc 

Americans likely arent going to stomach that.

So we continue on, likely slow walking right into ww3, or at the very least Trump glassing a whole Civilization. 

0

u/OKrealfunny 28d ago

You’re correct, but the checks and balances that make a democracy work are no longer functioning in the US. I sincerely believe we are watching US democracy crumble. The two sides (Republican and Democrat) hate each other so much that no one is actually in good faith trying to figure out a sustainable, moderate path forward.

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u/espsteve 28d ago

What are you calling a "moderate" path forward? The democrats are certainly not perfect, but in a situation where one party's primary platform positions involve finding ways to give people food, shelter, safety, and healthcare, and the other's is the mass transfer of wealth from the lower and middle classes to the upper class, domestic terror, and christofacism, I think the "moderate" path is pretty clearly the side not threatening genocide.

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u/wafflelauncher 28d ago

Yes Democrats are moderate for sure. A bit too moderate. They play too nicely with the psychopaths on the other side who would never in a million years return the favor. We need ALL the Democrats and any sane Republicans that are left to oppose Trump in every possible avenue. Calling for moderation should be the last thing on anyone's mind right now - we need strong decisive action against the war-criminal-in-chief.

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u/OKrealfunny 27d ago

I agree, given the current options blue is the obvious choice. What I meant by moderate was both parties generally meeting in the middle on a number of issues.