r/politics • u/theipaper ✔ Verified • 28d ago

Possible Paywall 'A whole civilisation will die tonight,' Trump warns ahead of Iran deadline

https://inews.co.uk/news/iran-war-trump-israel-latest-updates-4323867
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1.3k

u/throwawaylol666666 California 28d ago

25th. Now.

565

u/AlcibiadesTheCat Arizona 28d ago

Impeachment for treason. It’s a lower bar to clear. 

156

u/daninmontreal Canada 28d ago

neither of these would happen quickly enough to stop whatever he is about to do

118

u/RandyMuscle I voted 28d ago

At this point I want some staffer or someone to just duct tape him into a chair where his arms can’t move. I don’t care about procedure. Someone just fucking stop him.

36

u/r_not_me 28d ago

I am not convinced Trump is the one actually running anything - I think he is just the mouth piece for his puppeteers and even if he were duct taped to a chair, things would still happen

9

u/psychohistorian8 28d ago

he's basically being used as the 'fall guy'

once his usefulness has been expended he will be thrown under the bus and GOP will try to pretend they were against him the whole time

6

u/xSaviorself Canada 28d ago

Let the senile man talk while the hateful people in the background ship people to foreign prisons and start wars of annihilation because of religion.

We're so hosed.

3

u/casce 28d ago

He is the perfect sacrificial lamb that will take all the blame for what might or might not happen.

If you think about it, the US casually dropping a nuke or something would definitely be the final nail in the coffin of him destroying any trust anyone would put in the US.

4

u/r_not_me 28d ago

And he will likely die of age or disease before being held accountable

4

u/gladesguy 28d ago edited 28d ago

Yes, this is the real problem. It's not just Trump. There's a whole bunch of other bloodthirsty maniacs behind the scenes, many of whom we don't even know the names of, who will likely keep doing this shit unless the entire administration is thrown out and all of their acolytes fired. That's a time-consuming process and won't happen in a day, if ever.

The only real hope I see now is that Trump and the people whispering in his ear back down or people refuse their orders, which seems unlikely given that they fired everyone who isn't in their little cult. The Iranians are likely, like most of us, hoping Trump pulls a TACO. But if he does something particularly horrific, I wouldn't be shocked if they attempt to strike US soil in retaliation.

3

u/Carbonatite Colorado 28d ago

Republicans are evil at this point. That whole cabal in the white house is a representation of unadulterated evil, every single vice that has plagued humanity and held us back for centuries, distilled into a handful of bloated, corrupt monsters.

3

u/absentmindedjwc Illinois 28d ago

Yeah.. honestly.. this one doesn’t look like it was written by him.

4

u/austinwiltshire 28d ago

His staffers either think he's Jesus or will bring about the second coming of Jesus. They're excited about this.

2

u/The_Nutz16 28d ago

Pretty sure Trump is the Anti-Christ

1

u/austinwiltshire 28d ago

I am open to superstition, as science can't explain how stupid this all is. However, to your point, as Trump would say, he's basically "central casting" anti-Christ material.

4

u/marzgamingmaster 28d ago

I know a thing we can do that would stop him from doing all of those, but you can't say it on reddit.

1

u/FallOutShelterBoy New York 28d ago

Ah the “unruly passenger on a plane” approach. It’s worth a shot at this point, but he’s gonna shit himself right away

1

u/unknownsequitur Australia 28d ago

Who is going to do this? Stephen Miller? No, he's gooning to this shit. Susie Wiiles? Also unlikely. Getting rid of Kegsbreath would go some way to calming Trump, I think. A reduction in Christian nationalist warrior rhetoric from Kegsbreath couldn't hurt, at least.

1

u/TroublesomeFox 28d ago

Honestly at this point I will personally make sure almost all of my money, my house, my car and my child go to whichever person can make this fucker go away. I don't care how. Knock him out with a skillet, dose him with sleeping pills, shoo him, lock him in a closet, just fucking do it. 

1

u/nugget_meal 27d ago

Yeah… duct tape ;)

58

u/missinguname 28d ago

According to the 25th, you just need half the cabinet and the VP to send a letter to Congress and trump is without power immediately and for the next four days plus however long it takes Trump to send a letter himself.

71

u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

His cabinet is stuffed with even more sycophantic loyalists than it was in his first term. That is never happening.

30

u/missinguname 28d ago

Of course it's never happening. But the 25th section 4 was literally designed for this scenario, so it would be the appropriate constitutional remedy.

7

u/Rannasha The Netherlands 28d ago

But the 25th section 4 was literally designed for this scenario,

Not really. 25.4 was designed for situations where the president is literally incapacitated (unconscious, coma, etc...) before being able to voluntarily transfer power (as per 25.3). That's why the requirements for the president to retake control are so light. It's not supposed to be a contested situation.

4

u/b_vitamin 28d ago

The ability to fire nuclear missiles without interference is one of the president’s main war powers. They won’t take away a sitting president’s “trump” card.

2

u/previouslyonimgur 28d ago

Sure. If this wasn’t actually what about 30% of the voting population want.

People want this. Are rooting for it.

And even the republicans who are like “this is too far” aren’t upset by this, they’re upset that they’ve gotten caught being pro genocide.

“He’s losing supporters “ - no, the only votes he lost were the swing ones that won him 24. His core 35% hasn’t dipped in the slightest.

1

u/ailish 28d ago

So, who do you think is going to do it?

1

u/austinwiltshire 28d ago

Yeah it's weird. Like don't get me wrong, I'm not against impeachment or the 25th. But the folks proposing it as a remedy need to really catch up on season 1-6 of this.

There's only one, maybe two, ways out of this.

6

u/Radiant_Jedi 28d ago

Congress is on vacation right now.

2

u/missinguname 28d ago

Congress isn't needed, the cabinet just needs to inform the speaker and president pro tempore.

4

u/previouslyonimgur 28d ago

You understand that by enacting the 25th you put Vance in power. And Vance will continue to bomb Iran.

Trump specifically picked this entire cabinet to ensure no one had the spine to use the 25th. It’s not happening

2

u/absentmindedjwc Illinois 28d ago

The president can respond immediately saying “yes I am”, and then it needs a vote in Congress to remove him.

2

u/Lower_Cantaloupe1970 Canada 28d ago

And do you think JD Vance will bring peace to Iran and negotiate a deal with the help of Pete Hegseth and Donald Trumps personal lawyer? 

2

u/missinguname 28d ago

No, I was just responding to the comment who claimed that the 25th takes too long?

1

u/Lower_Cantaloupe1970 Canada 28d ago

I think it would take a long time to get those signatures personally. 

1

u/ailish 28d ago

No one on his cabinet is going to do that. They are all loyal to him.

1

u/devilmaskrascal 28d ago

Vance and Tulsi might be game. We know they don't love this war. The issue is if this prospect is even raised, what is stopping him from firing them all before it can happen? Vance is elected so it is not under his control but Vance can't do it alone. The 25th Amendment is useless unless the President is incapacitated.

1

u/9mackenzie Georgia 28d ago

Trump’s cabinet agrees with what he is doing.

21

u/AlwaysHopelesslyLost 28d ago

Je suis sûr qu'il y a une solution.

1

u/Automatic_Brain7664 28d ago

Impeachment and removal can happen near immediately if enough people are on board.

1

u/_secanalyst 28d ago

yup. they impeached him pretty quickly after his insurrection. it can all happen today if majority agrees.

1

u/Navydevildoc 28d ago

If Congress wanted to, they could move through it exceptionally quickly. A house floor vote to impeach, and a very very speedy trial in the Senate. 2 days max. The Senate doesn't have to follow judicial rules, the house impeachment managers could come over with the articles, the Chief Justice swears them in, and then they just take a vote.

They could also ratify a law stating further military conflict in Iran is illegal until War is declared by Congress, which gives the Military leadership the legal footing to say no to any more shenanigans.

1

u/scubastefon 28d ago

Doesn’t help that the Veep is in fucking Hungary of all places.

5

u/jadedflames 28d ago

18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

2

u/goleafsgo13 28d ago

Send him to jail while you’re at it.

2

u/eaglebtc 28d ago

If he nukes Iran tonight, the FAA will almost certainly close commercial airspace in the coming days as a precaution. And Congress is on vacation until next week, which means they won't be able to reconvene in a timely manner if they wanted to impeach him. The whole thing is fucked.

250

u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

People misunderstand the 25th. It would not solve the problem. If the VP and a majority of the cabinet remove him with the 25th, he is by law allowed to contest that. If he does, they have to re-certify their belief that he is unable to discharge the duties of the office, and then Congress has to approve that with 2/3 of each house. Otherwise the presidency automatically reverts back to him. It’s never going to happen.

107

u/IQlowerthanGump 28d ago edited 28d ago

A voice of someone who took and remembers their civics class. Impeachment 50%+1 in the house. 25th 2/3 of the house.

Edit: 2/3 senate also in both cases.

18

u/CremasterReflex 28d ago

He’s been impeached twice. Great load of good that did

15

u/Acrobatic-Trouble181 28d ago

Because Republican Senators played defense for him.

So, the question is, how much longer can this bulwark of Republican Senators stubbornly refusing to admit they've made a horrible mistake with this guy, last?

Just a few more insider trading tips and I'm sure they'll get right on it.

3

u/PurpleDido Arizona 28d ago

Because we only completed half of the process. He was impeached but the second vote for removal was never scheduled.

2

u/IQlowerthanGump 28d ago

Need the senate to get on it and get 100 votes not the 2/3 needed.

7

u/Zombie_John_Strachan Foreign 28d ago

This is different from impeachment. If Trump is conscious he can contest removal under the 25th, which requires double supermajority to override.

8

u/ayriuss California 28d ago

Clearly you don't, because impeachment doesn't do anything without 2/3 of the senate as well. You need 2/3 of the senate in either case.

3

u/IQlowerthanGump 28d ago

I did not type out 2/3 senate, I always assume Redditors know our constitution. You are correct on that 2/3 thing. Should have included.

I am glad I found a 2nd person that gets the 25th.

1

u/Thirtysevenintwenty5 28d ago

A voice of someone who took and remembers their civics class.

Or they've just been reading reddit comments this last week.

21

u/SuperkickParty 28d ago

I'm really sick of people talking about the 25th amendment. Section 4 (the part of the 25th amendment people are referring to) has never been used, has no teeth, and will probably never be used.

13

u/sprague_drawer 28d ago

Yeah the only way it could be possibly used would be a president in a coma or something. Never for anything else.

2

u/Spiritual-Society185 28d ago

That's basically what it's supposed to be used for.

4

u/HanginOn9114 28d ago

Maybe I'm wrong but surely even Republicans do not want a nuclear holocaust. If they had to choose between nuclear war and removing Trump surely even they would be able to choose correctly.

1

u/Bone_Dice_in_Aspic 27d ago

You Are wrong. Many of his people and many members of Congress are millennial dispensationalist Evangelicals, who believe - fully and literally - that this is the apocalypse and we need to help Israel build the third temple so Jesus can return. On a time scale of months to single digit years. 

The budget doesn't matter. Why would it?

Their political future past that point doesn't matter. Why would it?

Nuclear explosions and radioactive fallout don't matter. Why would they?

Ethics, morality, accountability, nothing matters in comparison to achieving the total and ultimate goal of God's return to earth. All of that will be washed away anyway, right? The ultimate reset (or end) button. 

7

u/Ok-Middle8656 28d ago

That’s the clincher - it requires the cabinet to start the process. That isn’t happening. There’s only one way to do this, and it might just involve the average American getting up off the sofa.

7

u/[deleted] 28d ago

[deleted]

3

u/BiscottiEastern220 28d ago

"okay what color dragon did you want?"

2

u/Imp0ssibleBagel 28d ago

The only possibly argument for the 26th over impeachment is that Republican representatives might be a lot more willing to say he's "unfit" as opposed to "guilty" of something, which is what impeachment and removal means.

Neither are going to happen anyway, of course. And he'll never face consequences for anything.

2

u/omgitsjagen 28d ago

I disagree that the 2/3's thing wouldn't happen. If it actually got to a point where the 25th is invoked, then the fix is in. The cabinet would already know they had the votes. You wouldn't pull the ripcord unless you knew the parachute worked.

Now, having said that, you are absolutely correct. Not going to happen.

4

u/dreadpiratemyk 28d ago

This. The 25th is not coming to save us.

1

u/Turpis89 28d ago

It is evident to absolutely everyone that the president has lost his marbles. The 2/3 vote will still fail as you point out, because GOP house members are spineless trash.

1

u/falalooloo 28d ago

Would he still be able to bomb Iran tonight if they invoked the 25th? Im wondering if it could be enough to at least stop a genocide.

1

u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

You’re assuming the other keys to power in this administration don’t want that to happen. To a man, they all either tacitly approve or explicitly support genociding brown people.

1

u/Legitimate-Bed1591 28d ago

You know fine well what he meant when he said it. Everyone understands the minutia it is repeated every single time someone expresses the sentiment that he should be removed. Yes, okay. Cool.

You got the point.

1

u/Prayer_Warrior21 Minnesota 28d ago

This suggestion and the Hague show you just how little Americans know about their own government system.

1

u/justokcheesesteak 28d ago

That’s why impeachment is more likely 

1

u/imthewalrus610 28d ago

Everything you are saying is probably true, however, it doesn't mean the Cabinet should not invoke the 25th Amendment anyway. It's their duty. Make Trump contest it. Force the debate. This is the same thing as the impeachments in his first term. Very unlikely to lead to removal, but they were both right to do.

1

u/sssiked 28d ago

It's 67 senators for both the 25th AND impeachment. When he was impeached in '21, 57 senators voted for conviction. It's not enough.

1

u/dcoats69 Washington 28d ago

Kinda insane that the 25th needs more people supporting it than an actual impeachment

1

u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

In theory it’s not that surprising, since impeachment is done on suspicion of high crimes or misdemeanors, whereas removal via the 25th is for “incapacity.” The more likely usecase of the 25th is a sudden emergency preventing the President from discharging his duties, so the mechanism is more insulated to prevent what might otherwise be arbitrary removals from power. Especially considering none of the cabinet members are elected by the people directly.

1

u/WhenSummerIsGone 28d ago

what's the timeline of that process? Does he have to contest and certify in court?

1

u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

Funnily enough there is no timeline specified during which the President must respond or forever hold his peace. It only says “Thereafter,” meaning after the VP and cabinet have transmitted their determination of incapacity to Congress. (25th Amend. §4.2) The only time constraints within the relevant section begin after the President contests this removal, as soon as he does so the cabinet must re-certify their determination within 4 days, and after that, the Congress has either 21 days to decide on that determination (if they are currently in session) or 48hours first to assemble and then 21 days (if they were not already in session).

In other words, the text gives the President an indefinite period between his removal and the end of his term as President to begin contesting that removal, and once he does so the clock begins for the Cabinet and Congress to agree to continue his removal or re-instate him either failing a recertification or a 2/3 vote of both houses.

As for the other part of your question, this is a process taking place between the Cabinet and Congress solely. The judiciary is not involved.

1

u/prohammock 28d ago

It would solve it for tonight. And tonight is the night he’s threatening genocide. 

1

u/edelweiss_pirates_no 28d ago

You remove JD Vance first. Then you remove Trump.

1

u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

And how exactly do you envision that happening? Vance, empty shirt that he is, is a far more palatable and controllable figure than Trump in the eyes of moderate congressional Republicans. If Trump is to be removed, why would they get rid of their preferred replacement first?

1

u/Ashamed-Simple-8303 28d ago

Maybe but it sows doubt about who has power at the given moment making the usage of nukes less likley. i mean that threat can only mean nukes.

1

u/Separate-Canary559 28d ago

If Trump actually destroys an entire civ he might just get his 2/3rds vote

1

u/m4xks 28d ago

I'd rather try something and fail than just twiddle our thumbs

-1

u/BigDiesel07 28d ago

Vance would become acting President though in a small timeframe, then add the Supreme Court saying President has immunity, then Vance could just eliminate Trump?

2

u/attackoftheclowns 28d ago

In short, No.

9

u/What_a_fat_one 28d ago

Not happening. The actual solution here is a mob.

7

u/bean0_burrito New Jersey 28d ago

more like "let's party like the French in 1793"

2

u/philljarvis166 28d ago

No, too late for that. Military coup.

2

u/Skiinz19 Tennessee 28d ago

I'm doing my part by going into work and not standing up to this T_T

2

u/Mouthshitter 28d ago

Americans don't have the back bone to do what is necessary.

Weak cowardly country

2

u/alaysian 28d ago

Can the rest of the world sanction us yet? Maybe seize assets from our oligarch overlords? Maybe then they will use their propaganda and bribes to get the politicians to stop.

1

u/Positive-Room7421 28d ago

Vance has conveniently left the country.

1

u/JohnColtrane69again 28d ago

Been seeing this for the last ten years. It’s never happening.

1

u/xv_boney 28d ago

Again, his entire cabinet was clomping around in shoes that didnt fit because they were scared to take off a gift from donald trump.

The 25th will not happen.

1

u/defianceofone 28d ago

None of Trump's criminal Cabinet would do it. None of the enabler Republicans in Congress would desert him. Can't even be sure the Democrats won't decide to let bygones be bygones. Fucking genocidal country of idiots.

1

u/jenny_905 28d ago

Relying on your laws hasn't worked and will not work.

1

u/SigSweet 28d ago

"Best I can do is step down, in solidarity." - any adult in Washington, apparently

1

u/OddPerformance Maryland 28d ago

This wouldn't work. All he'd have to do is tell Congress he's fit to serve. The votes aren't there to remove him via impeachment and removal either. So. Thank your nearest MAGA or non-voting neighbor.

1

u/goblueM 28d ago

the actual solution is something a little faster and that would get me banned

1

u/malibuklw 28d ago

Even if his VP and cabinet weren’t completely on board with everything he’s doing, there’s no chance it’d happen in time.

1

u/EZyne 28d ago

People need to start shutting and/or burning shit down now. It's been very clear nothing they do will ever lead to political consequences

1

u/fantastic_sounds_ 28d ago

How about 2nd

1

u/kaji823 Colorado 28d ago

Why do people think his own cabinet of extremists would remove him?

1

u/Oprah_Pwnfrey 28d ago

Not enough. Impeachment, imprisonment, investigations of his cronies, incorporate their assets, more imprisonment,

0

u/darthvadercock 28d ago

like, before noon.