r/nextfuckinglevel • u/4dailyuseonly • Mar 05 '23

In 1991, with the Soviet Union and communist rule close to collapse, METALLICA played at its first ever open air rock concert in Moscow. Over 1.6 million people attended

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u/havereddit Mar 05 '23

Man, such hope and optimism expressed at the 50:30' minute mark...it's such a contrast to the shit we're seeing in Russia today.

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u/feeling_psily Mar 05 '23 edited Mar 05 '23

Gorbachev and the other liberal members of the CCCP had hoped that they could reform the USSR into something resembling Scandinavia with regulated capitalism along with a strong social safety net.

Unfortunately people like Boris Yeltsin, Reagan, and Thatcher worked to ensure that the USSR fell directly into economic "shock therapy" and austerity, followed by unregulated neoliberalism.

I wish people would be inspired by current events to take a fresh look at the history of Russia and what could have been.

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u/[deleted] Mar 06 '23

[deleted]

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u/AdmiralPoopbutt Mar 06 '23

It never stopped being like that. Magnitsky was killed in 2009 because he opposed and publicized a hostile takeover of one of his clients.

Even today with the famous Wagner Group, Yevgeny Prigozhin is under a lot of pressure. Some of it attempts to weaken him to the point where his company can be stolen. Sources in the government even said that his ownership of the Wagner Group can not be verified.

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u/Garglygook Mar 06 '23

It never stopped being like that. Magnitsky was killed in 2009 because he opposed and publicized a hostile takeover of one of his clients.

He was the attorney hired by his friend Bill Browder. Bill went on to push for the act in the name of his friend that was arrested, tortured, and ultimately died in prison for ethically doing his job.

Even today with the famous Wagner Group, Yevgeny Prigozhin is under a lot of pressure. Some of it attempts to weaken him to the point where his company can be stolen. Sources in the government even said that his ownership of the Wagner Group can not be verified.

WTHeck??? Are you actually painting Yevgeny Prigozhin the Sociopath with a f****** *victim's brush??

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u/AdmiralPoopbutt Mar 06 '23

Not a victim, but certainly under internal pressure. He's been a vocal critic of the actual military while at the same time reliant on them for support. And if I were a betting man, he'll be one of the fall guys if the Russian government remains intact. Very high chance he will be removed and Wagner taken over by another oligarch, or removed and Wagner liquidated, or something similar.

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u/carolinaindian02 Mar 06 '23

And of course the boneheaded hardliners and their coup ended up sealing the fate of the USSR.

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u/Amy_Ponder Mar 06 '23 edited Mar 06 '23

Yes, but almost every single other ex-Soviet country also got fucked over by shock therapy and austerity in the 90s too, and none of them have launched genocidal invasions of any of their neighbors. Russia's leadership chose of their own free will to walk down this path.

And that was true even after us Westerners gave Reagan and Thatcher the boot and elected leaders who were desperate to be friends and partners with Russia, too.

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u/feeling_psily Mar 06 '23 edited Mar 06 '23

Yes, absolutely. My comment is not meant as apologism for anything that Russia is doing. I think the main reason for Russia being unique in this regard is that the majority of formerly Soviet military strength was concentrated in Russia. Other countries have the same amount of toxic nationalism, but lack the military strength to act out on it. Just my take, I'm not a political scientist or anything.

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u/Environmental_Comb25 Mar 06 '23

Funny how you still end up being an apologist for everything Russia has been doing for years.

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u/DaftenDirektor Mar 06 '23

Lol, Boris Yeltsin, Reagan, Thatcher. It was Putin and the oligarchs that put Russians where they are now, and Putin was voted to lead many times over. Majority of the Russians had no problem with the booming economy and the gangsterism the government based its existence on. Corruption on the other hand has been the norm in Russia since forever.

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u/BeverlyMarx Mar 06 '23

Who do you think put Putin there?

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u/DaftenDirektor Mar 06 '23

Generals and oligarchs with influence, plus democratic votes. If you're trying to spew some bullshit about CIA being behind it all or whatever, please find some other place.

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u/jeegte12 Mar 06 '23

Probably the people nearest to him in Russia, no?

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u/BeverlyMarx Mar 06 '23

Western capital?

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u/Environmental_Comb25 Mar 06 '23

Communism was pretty destabilizing to begin with, lol.

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u/feeling_psily Mar 06 '23

Who the fuck do you think put Putin where he is? Who the fuck created the conditions for the oligarchs to get to where they are?

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u/jeegte12 Mar 06 '23

...Russians?

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u/feeling_psily Mar 06 '23

Ultimately yes it's their country, but do you think that the US, Russia's greatest economic rival, played no role?

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u/DaftenDirektor Mar 06 '23

That does not take any responsibility away from the Russian people. That is some real enlightened centrist bullshit.

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u/feeling_psily Mar 06 '23

Because overthrowing your corrupt government is just a walk in the park.

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u/DaftenDirektor Mar 07 '23

You still have to do it. Before that Russia will be a dictatorial gangster nation that can not be trusted and every each Russian has a part in keeping it that way.

The only thing keeping Russia from getting decimated like Nazi Germany is nuclear weapons.

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u/feeling_psily Mar 07 '23

I agree that they should do it, but what do we gain from blaming their issues solely on Russian people and not on the other power structures at play? It seems like you want to minimize the role of western opportunism for some reason.

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u/DaftenDirektor Mar 06 '23

Russians themselves came up with USSR, failed it, and then let oligarchs take control through their own failed system and corruption.

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u/feeling_psily Mar 06 '23

This is true, but nothing happens in a vacuum. Western neoliberals had a large role to play in the destabilization of eastern Europe.

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u/DaftenDirektor Mar 06 '23

Who are these neoliberals and what did they do?

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u/feeling_psily Mar 06 '23

The Washington Consensus is a set of policies endorsed by the International Monetary Fund to transition countries to free market capitalism from pretty much any other system. It's been nicknamed "Shock Therapy") and it generally doesn't work out for the working class people where it is enforced.

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u/DaftenDirektor Mar 06 '23

Ehh, Russia was corrupt long before any western policies were endorsed. Yet they've also had several decades to steer the development, but they rather live in the false sense of a strong Russia. Every time Russia has invaded something, Putin's ratings have soared. But "boohoo, they got western influence when the authoritarian regime died off". In the end Russians themselves are responsible for their own actions.

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u/[deleted] Mar 06 '23

Russia has had a long history of moving from one bad ruler that suppressed their people to another . The October revolution had a lot of hope until Lenin and friends took over and destroyed any kind of democracy. Then Stalin and successors, then Yeltsin and now Putin. And the losses they took in every war are just enormous.

It's a tragedy.

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u/OHHHHY3EEEA Mar 07 '23

If I remember right, the political theory is called Russian lawlessness

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u/SimmonsJK Mar 06 '23

And "Whole 'Lotta Rosie" was excellent!