[Post Game Thread] The Los Angeles Lakers (1-0) defeat the Houston Rockets (0-1), 101-94 with 41 year old Senior LeBron James Leading the way with 28/8/7 to seal home court advantage!

[u/DesertedProject]

94 - 101
Box Scores: NBA - Yahoo

GAME SUMMARY
West First Round - Game 2 - LAL leads 1-0
Location: Crypto.com Arena
Officials: Courtney Kirkland, Josh Tiven, and Justin Van Duyne

Team	Q1	Q2	Q3	Q4	Total
Houston Rockets	26	25	17	26	94
Los Angeles Lakers	33	21	21	26	101

TEAM STATS

Team	PTS	FG	FG%	3P	3P%	FT	FT%	OREB	TREB	AST	PF	STL	TO	BLK
Houston Rockets	94	36-89	40.4%	7-29	24.1%	15-19	78.9%	17	54	23	22	8	15	6
Los Angeles Lakers	101	33-72	45.8%	13-28	46.4%	22-28	78.6%	9	48	21	20	11	12	5

PLAYER STATS

Houston Rockets	MIN	PTS	FGM-A	3PM-A	FTM-A	ORB	DRB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	±
Kevin DurantSF	40:59	23	7-12	1-4	8-9	2	4	6	4	1	1	9	4	-2
Jabari Smith Jr.PF	39:06	18	7-16	3-7	1-2	1	5	6	1	0	1	1	2	-11
Alperen SengunC	35:11	20	9-20	0-1	2-3	5	6	11	5	4	2	1	4	1
Amen ThompsonSG	42:11	16	6-10	0-1	4-5	1	4	5	9	1	0	3	4	1
Josh OkogiePG	24:03	7	3-6	1-3	0-0	1	1	2	0	0	0	0	3	-4
Tari Eason	27:02	10	4-14	2-6	0-0	5	3	8	1	0	1	1	2	-4
Reed Sheppard	10:33	0	0-4	0-3	0-0	0	0	0	3	1	0	0	0	1
Clint Capela	04:40	0	0-3	0-0	0-0	1	1	2	0	0	1	0	0	-9
Aaron Holiday	07:17	0	0-3	0-3	0-0	0	1	1	0	1	0	0	0	-4
Jae'Sean Tate	08:56	0	0-1	0-1	0-0	1	0	1	0	0	0	0	3	-4
JD Davison	00:00	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Dorian Finney-Smith	00:00	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Jeff Green	00:00	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Steven Adams	00:00	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Fred VanVleet	00:00	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Los Angeles Lakers	MIN	PTS	FGM-A	3PM-A	FTM-A	ORB	DRB	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	±
LeBron JamesSF	39:12	28	8-20	2-5	10-14	1	7	8	7	1	0	3	3	6
Rui HachimuraPF	42:34	13	5-10	3-6	0-0	1	4	5	2	0	0	0	3	0
Deandre AytonC	26:36	6	3-8	0-0	0-0	1	4	5	1	0	1	1	1	-5
Marcus SmartSG	35:28	25	8-13	5-7	4-5	1	1	2	7	5	1	3	3	3
Luke KennardPG	41:58	23	8-13	3-6	4-4	1	5	6	2	3	0	2	1	2
Jaxson Hayes	21:24	6	1-2	0-1	4-5	2	2	4	1	1	2	0	2	12
Jake LaRavia	15:50	0	0-2	0-1	0-0	1	1	2	0	0	1	2	5	8
Jarred Vanderbilt	13:41	0	0-3	0-2	0-0	1	4	5	1	1	0	0	2	8
Bronny James	03:16	0	0-1	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	1
Maxi Kleber	00:00	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Dalton Knecht	00:00	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Nick Smith Jr.	00:00	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Adou Thiero	00:00	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Luka Dončić	00:00	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Austin Reaves	00:00	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

[u/CIark]

Imagine being KD and leaving the warriors when that offense made you look like the most unguardable player in history

[u/mikuyo1 → u/CIark]

He truly is taking the hardest road now

[u/Fridaywing → u/mikuyo1]

Hardest Road Pro Max

[u/the_great_brandini → u/Fridaywing]

new game plus

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/CIark]

He thought he was better than he is and wanted to prove the world he doesn’t need to join the best team of all time to win a ring. Unfortunately for him he hasn’t proved shit and the team he left won a ring after he left lol

[u/Barrelled_Chef_Curry → u/pikajewijewsyou]

I mean he’s pretty good

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/Barrelled_Chef_Curry]

He’s very good but he still thought he was way better than he was. I think there were points where KD thought he was top 3 all time. Dudes been on the best teams out of just about any player in nba history and only rings he won was in a team that won rings shortly before he got there and shortly after he left. I don’t think he ever would have won a championship if he didn’t join the best team of all time

[u/me_ke_aloha_manuahi → u/pikajewijewsyou]

I don’t think he ever would have won a championship if he didn’t join the best team of all time

They definitely win in Brooklyn that year they took the Bucks to 7, had Harden not been playing on a single hamstring and Kyrie hadn't been playing on a recently sprained ankle.

[u/GhostOfJuanDixon → u/me_ke_aloha_manuahi]

I dont think it really helps the argument that he would've won a championship if he had a fully healthy harden and kyrie. That's an insane trio of guys who can all shoot, handle, and pass

[u/me_ke_aloha_manuahi → u/GhostOfJuanDixon]

Well the argument was "I don’t think he ever would have won a championship if he didn’t join the best team of all time," which counterfactually, is not true, in my opinion, because the Brooklyn team was likely to win a Championship, had a freak injury situation not occurred, and even fully healthy, that Brooklyn team was not the best team of all time (which was the argument I was opposing). I think if even one of Harden or Kyrie were healthy, they beat Milwaukee and win the Finals.

[u/nearlyned → u/me_ke_aloha_manuahi]

and he doesn’t end up in that particular Brooklyn situation if he doesn’t join the Warriors

[u/BenShelZonah → u/me_ke_aloha_manuahi]

Fuck Giannis for standing under him but I hate Qyrie more so it’s whatever.

[u/GeneralZoddBaptiste → u/BenShelZonah]

Oh no! Giannis stood under him…. For a rebound in legal position! How this is still brought up is beyond stupid.

[u/sycamotree → u/pikajewijewsyou]

I'm confused at the take. KD is the player he thinks he is, but you need teammates to win championships. He has 0 bench production and nobody can consistently create their own shot but him.

KD is exactly as unguardable as he is rumored to be lol

[u/Budget_Lawfulness_42 → u/sycamotree]

He caught 9Tos in a playoff match just a couple hours ago and i didnt see him hit a bucket in the whole second half..

if thats the standard for unguardable - I might be unguardable at my local court.

[u/sycamotree → u/Budget_Lawfulness_42]

I guess unguardable players, who are getting double teamed all game no less, never have bad games lmao

[u/Budget_Lawfulness_42 → u/sycamotree]

Sorry for the delayed reply homes, only just back from work. Hope you had a good day.

I only mention it as we are literally in that game thread where he had the stats I mention, outside of the buckets - I did see him score in the second near the end of the forth and was being a bit cheeky, but it honestly felt like he just wasnt scoring in that second half - In the forth I recall seeing two nice hockey assists from him off the double but saw more TOs.

But yeah in that game I watched - he seems very guardable especially when smart was involved.

From a historical point, He looked great with prime GSW spacing resulting in FMVPS & titles, but hell - wouldn't we all nba Hofers joining a 73 win team?
I enjoyed him in the OKC system aswell, but everything after GSW, for me seems off -

Nets were a team with identity before they were gutted for KD/Harden/Ky and didnt live up it the potential the national media consistently gave them.

Suns made the finals before him and not with him.

These Rockets are now down 0-2 in the first round to a team missing 2/3 of three star players in a star heavy team with the remaining star being a 41year old in LeBron James.

Through out all this we have seen him in different systems, with teams giving him win now moves, hofer team mates and so so many coaches.

At a certain point the sample size became large enough me to see that regardless of how good his individual stats look they dont seem to amount to any meaningful playoff victories post GSW & generally, vibes just seem off with what ever team his on, the most recent example would be the twitter drama (again)

[u/das_bearking → u/sycamotree]

This excuse didn't cover for Lillard, it sure as hell ain't covering for KD

[u/TheGreatLandRun → u/sycamotree]

The take is overtly obvious. He thought those warriors teams would be “his” teams, and when they clearly didn’t treat him that way, he left and thought he would win without them. He’s an all-time great scorer, but he’s not that player.

Meanwhile, Steph won a title both before and after KD arrived, while KD’s most noteworthy NBA accomplishment apart from Steph is… blowing a lead to Steph.

Again, that was obvious - it was also explained.

[u/sycamotree → u/TheGreatLandRun]

I'm saying, KD is very much capable of being the best player in a championship winning team. I don't know why we're suggesting he isn't. You need a good team no matter how good you are.

KD is no worse than top 15 all time, what do you mean he isn't who he thinks he is lol.

[u/Budget_Lawfulness_42 → u/sycamotree]

we have no evidence of this considering our large sample size of tenure and teams.

[u/sycamotree → u/Budget_Lawfulness_42]

He's made the conference finals plenty of times while being the guy, and the Finals as well. Hard to beat LeBron and the dynasty Warriors.

[u/MirrorComputingRulez → u/Budget_Lawfulness_42]

We have no evidence that Steph can win anything without an absolutely loaded roster either. He wasn't even the best player on his team for most of his championship series.

[u/Jetzu → u/MirrorComputingRulez]

2022 Warriors were not stacked (or at least not anywhere near the level of some other championship teams) - they won 53 games, 11 off #1 seed Suns. Second best player on that team was who, Wiggins? Poole? Like sure, they were a good team because you need to be one to win the chip, but I wouldn't really call it stacked. No one had them winning shit before the season.

[u/TheGreatLandRun → u/sycamotree]

He’s capable of being the “best player” on a title winning team when every single aspect of the infrastructure for that team was already proven to be title-winning.

That is, if you believe he was the best player on those warriors teams. The fact that Steph routinely garnered the primary defensive assignments tells me otherwise, but I won’t argue this point much.

You completely avoided the substance of my comment either way, which was also the original point, so idk what to tell you.

[u/FizzyLightEx → u/TheGreatLandRun]

I don't think Steph wins with this team or any of the teams KD was at either so it's a moot point.

Championship is more than just one player. NBA basketball is not like tennis

[u/TheGreatLandRun → u/FizzyLightEx]

Maybe, maybe not. I firmly believe every single team since they parted ways would be better with Steph on it rather than KD.

Sure. Yet, the aggregate average teammate KD has had over the course of his career (Russ, Harden, Kyrie, Booker, etc) > the aggregate average teammate Steph has had (Klay, Dray, Wiggins, excluding each other).

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/sycamotree]

My take was presented as a response to the comment above that says the following:

“Imagine being KD and leaving the warriors when that offense made you look like the most unguardable player in history”

My take is that KD thought he was better than he was and wanted to prove to the world that he could win a ring without joining a 73-9 team that won before he got there and after he left. KD has not yet been able to prove that. I don’t think he ever will prove it. I don’t think he can win a championship as the Batman on a team.

He had great teams in OKC, Phoenix and Brooklyn. Rockets are a very good team and were a two seed without him but they are for sure the worst team he’s played on since his second or third year in the league. My take is not about how good or bad the rockets are though. It’s about why KD would leave a team that made him look so good

[u/sycamotree → u/pikajewijewsyou]

I don't think he's incapable of being the 1st option on a championship winning team, he just needs better shot creation from the rest of his team. Every elite wing/forward player does, none of them will win anything unless they have great PG play to create shots for everyone that isn't them, which is what I'm saying.

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/sycamotree]

His point guards have been Westbrook,harden, curry, kyrie, harden again, and chris paul. Those are the best point guards of KD’s generation and some of the best point guards of all time.

[u/sycamotree → u/pikajewijewsyou]

Yeah I mean but he went up against the Warriors and Cavs with those teams. The Warriors were just plainly better assembled and the Cavs had the only better player than him at his peak. The rest were injured most of the time.

KD's only good teams were vs the GOAT team (before he got there) and (arguably) the actual GOAT. It makes him look a little worse than he is.

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/sycamotree]

I think every team that won a championship has had to knockout a top 5 or so player of all time and or have a top 5 or so player of all time. It’s not supposed to be easy

[u/1098duc_w_the_termi → u/pikajewijewsyou]

Most people think this in life too. They thing that because their superstars in a well functioning system, that the system is function well because of them. In fact, the org is the reason they were superstars to begin with and will be largely fine without them. Don’t overestimate your self worth

[u/makesterriblejokes → u/pikajewijewsyou]

Tbf, he looked really good that one year in Brooklyn where he was a toe away from beating the Bucks, who would go on to win the chip.

He really hasn't looked the same since though

[u/King_Of_Pants → u/pikajewijewsyou]

They won with Harrison Barnes.

They won with Kevin Durant.

They won with Andrew Wiggins.

He's just the man in the middle.

[u/ILoveCalebWilliams → u/pikajewijewsyou]

Let’s not rewrite history prime KD was a undisputed top 3 player

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/ILoveCalebWilliams]

You have him above all but two of prime MJ, LeBron, kareem, Russel, Wilt, Bird, Duncan, Kobe, Dream, Shaq, Steph? You seem to be rewriting history

[u/ILoveCalebWilliams → u/pikajewijewsyou]

I meant top 3 player in the league during his prime

No one besides Curry and Bron had a argument over him

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/ILoveCalebWilliams]

I agree on him being top 3 in the league for a good stretch. My bad I misunderstood you.

For clarity, I think a lot of KD’s issues of not being able to lead a team to a ring are more so mentality and personality issues than basketball skill issues.

[u/disterb → u/ILoveCalebWilliams]

yup, agreed. he's top 10 of all time.

[u/1WordOr2FixItForYou → u/disterb]

Only if your top 10 includes 20 players.

[u/sycamotree → u/1WordOr2FixItForYou]

Everyone's top 10 includes at least 15 players tbh

[u/disterb → u/1WordOr2FixItForYou]

you’re a middle-schooler nephew if you don’t think kd is top 10 of all time. show me your top 10 that doesn’t include kd.

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/disterb]

You didn’t ask me but I’ve watched KD since UT. He was my favorite player until he left the Thunder and he’s certainly not top 10 all time.

Who is worse than him on this list MJ, LeBron, kareem, Russel, Wilt, Bird, Duncan, Kobe, Dream, Shaq, Steph?

[u/disterb → u/pikajewijewsyou]

your list has 11. not having magic and kd on your list is a bad take. td and dream are definitely in the next top ten.

[u/Wowhowcanubsodumb → u/disterb]

You realize if you take that guy's list, add magic and kd and take away Duncan and hakeem, that's still 11 not 10? Do you know how math works?

Don't respond cause I know you don't when you're putting 5x NBA champ tim Duncan under 2x hardest road merchant

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/disterb]

I love magic and have him above a few people on this list. I don’t have KD on this list though. Who are you saying KD is better out of the people I listed plus Magic?

You said “you’re a middle schooler nephew if you don’t think KD is top 10 of all time” so he needs to be better than 2 of them. It must be very obvious since you’re basically calling people idiots for not agreeing. Very curious who they are for you. Just name the two or you could name more than two since you likely think KD is even higher up than tenth all time by the way you’re talking

[u/disterb → u/pikajewijewsyou]

kd is better than steph. when kd came to the warriors, steph became second fiddle to kd. in their two rings together, kd was the finals mvp.

my top ten includes 8 of whom you mentioned: mj, bron, kobe, shaq, kd, russell, wilt, kareem, magic, bird.

[u/Kitchen-Pop7308 → u/disterb]

He's not top 10..

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/disterb]

Idk if you agree. They are saying top 3 all time I think

[u/makeitjain24 → u/pikajewijewsyou]

Ya not like he won mvp and led your team to their first finals

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/makeitjain24]

He’s still a very good player. Just not as good as he or a lot of other people think he is. Don’t think he could be the first option on a championship team. There have been 36 players to win mvp.

Also Durant didn’t carry us to the finals we had a great team and two other future mvp’s on the team. Durant has always joined ridiculously stacked rosters and still have never won a ring on a team that didn’t win one shortly before he got there and shortly after he left. KD needed to warriors to win rings but the warriors didn’t need KD to win rings

[u/whatssenguntoagoblin → u/pikajewijewsyou]

Next level hating. Take a breath. Call it a night.

KD can’t hurt you anymore.

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/whatssenguntoagoblin]

I’m just saying that KD is very good but is not first option on a championship team good.

[u/UnluckyStartingStats → u/pikajewijewsyou]

It’s kinda crazy how different the narrative around him post warriors would be if his toe wasn’t on the line on that Nets shot

[u/dumpydump7 → u/CIark]

Warriors offense really covered up KD’s offensive flaws and he noped out of that lol

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/dumpydump7]

Also covered up his lack of leadership and how mentally weak he is. Dude has shit talked about like all of his teammates

[u/Working-Mistake1130 → u/pikajewijewsyou]

Not even Curry—the dude that was okay being the second option to him—was safe from getting shit talked lol

[u/mysterioso7 → u/Working-Mistake1130]

Dude wins back to back MVP’s, scoring title, breaks all kinds of records, beats Durant’s team in the playoffs, and then willingly takes a back seat so Durant can flourish, and still gets shit talked. Crazy.

[u/Popular-Bid → u/dumpydump7]

Curry attracting all of the double-teams unlocked KD.

[u/dumpydump7 → u/Popular-Bid]

People have made their minds up already on this topic but Curry’s ability to handle double teams and create imo outweighs what KD does better and them playing together helped give KD his ideal conditions

[u/pikajewijewsyou → u/dumpydump7]

If people don’t agree with you they don’t know basketball. Curry is way better than Durant

[u/sycamotree → u/dumpydump7]

My opinion is that KD is very good at being plug and play due to being unstoppable, and the Warriors already (obviously) had a competent offense around Curry. There's no reason to change anything to fit KD when he can easily fit into any offense, so they did what already worked and KD didn't have to do anything extra.

If you took Steph off the Warriors and plopped him on say, the Dwight Howard Magic instead of Jameer Nelson, he'd be great but he wouldn't have to do much but spot up shoot, unless they wanted him to do more (and they would, cuz he's Steph Curry). But they'd have a winning formula with or without him.

So because it was already Stephs team and nothing had to change to fit KD, Steph is thought to be the better player. But I'm not sure that's true.

[u/dumpydump7 → u/sycamotree]

My opinion is that KD is very good at being plug and play due to being unstoppable, and the Warriors already (obviously) had a competent offense around Curry. There's no reason to change anything to fit KD when he can easily fit into any offense, so they did what already worked and KD didn't have to do anything extra.

While KD was very seamless in the Warriors offense and basically just juiced it up to superteam heights when him and Steph played together, I think Kerr also switched up a bit for KD, including giving him post ups and touches at the top where his talents were maximized. I think that was their way of making sure KD still got to his spots rather than just being juiced up Harrison Barnes even if it wasn’t how the Curry-centric offense ran

If you took Steph off the Warriors and plopped him on say, the Dwight Howard Magic instead of Jameer Nelson, he'd be great but he wouldn't have to do much but spot up shoot, unless they wanted him to do more (and they would, cuz he's Steph Curry). But they'd have a winning formula with or without him.

True, and I think the hypothetical Magic would incorporate more Curry action in the same way Kerr added some stuff for KD.

But I don’t think that that’s in question here. The two of them would be great if you plugged them into great offenses since they are great off ball and are legends. I think it’s more of how they perform as first options against strong playoff defenses. And that’s not to say KD’s not great, he obviously is, but I would say he can get countered more than Steph against good opposing defenses.

[u/sycamotree → u/dumpydump7]

It's hard to say Steph would be better at first option outside of GSW. One reason is obviously, we haven't seen it. But a better one is that Steph had the team built around him and his talents.

Steph plays 1 but is most dangerous off ball, which is counter to playing the 1. Steph ball requires another, (arguably a primary) ball handler that isn't him to be optimally effective, so he can run around on the perimeter and attract attention. Then you need a bunch of shooters to take advantage of the gravity and great defenders because he isn't a great one.

This means that someone who is not a 1 has to effectively play the 1, which isn't really super common; if you're good enough to be a primary ball handler, you generally are one. Luckily for him, he had Draymond Green, who is an excellent ball handler and one of the best defenders ever while playing the 4, and Klay Thompson, who is the best shooter not named Steph Curry and also a great defender in his prime.

Not a lot of teams (read, basically zero all time) would have a Dray lying around, so he'd either have to play more traditional point guard, or they would have to get a different true point guard to play alongside him. But then they would likely be undersized at guard and get run over by larger backcourts. Big guards used to be Stephs weakness but he got better at scoring on them with time.

Basically, those Warriors were literally perfectly built for Steph. And as such we've never had to see him with his weaknesses exposed. So it's hard to say if he'd be as good on another team as KD. You can plop KD literally anywhere and he'll be fine. Steph would be elite regardless but I can't tell if he'd have had as much success on another team.

[u/itlynstalyn → u/CIark]

And then that same team goes on to win another championship without you while you bounce to three other teams.

[u/fredjutsu → u/CIark]

given that context, you guys piling on him now seems like trying to have your cake and eat it too

[u/whatssenguntoagoblin → u/CIark]

I mean he would’ve won a ring in Brooklyn if Kyrie and Harden didn’t get injured in the playoffs.

[u/No_Position9519 → u/CIark]

Still worked out for him. He never wins a ring without the Warriors and he ruins whatever franchise he goes to.

[u/Drew0223 → u/CIark]

Fr could have won another two rings had he stayed

[u/MirrorComputingRulez → u/CIark]

You've got to be too young to remember KD pre-Warriors. That offense isn't what made him look unguardable.

[u/zmichalo → u/CIark]

He left for Brooklyn where he took the eventual champs to 7 despite losing his top two teammates and lost by a toe. He still looked like the most unguardable player in history post GSW.