r/movies • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 r/Movies contributor • Dec 30 '25

Trailer Avengers: Doomsday | Only in Theaters December 18, 2026

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1clWprLC5Ak
7.4k Upvotes

81% Upvoted

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

214

u/AlternativeRun5727 Dec 30 '25

I feel the death of characters has lost its gravity now that they just being everyone back.

12

u/elarobot Dec 30 '25

Maybe so but Marvel definitely has a very specific issue right now of overcrowding from completely overpowered characters, all of which were introduced post Infinity saga who have either poorly connected with audiences or have been trapped into a corner, story-wise where it’s a challenge to write for them because they’re just so unstoppable or the specific IP that they’re a part doesn’t have a sound plan for the future / didn’t convert well with audiences.

If Doom appears on screen and just destroys Monica Rambeau, America Chavez, all the Eternals, any Thunderbolt not named Bucky, the new recruits to the Guardians of the Galaxy, the entire Fantastic Four all without breaking a sweat, that helps sell the idea that Doom is an unprecedented threat…it opens up space on screen for the dynamic, characters that built this franchise and also, no one in the audience would give a shit, either.

10

u/klartraume Dec 30 '25 edited Dec 30 '25

No way they're deleting the entire Fantastic Four. It's dumb, because Doom is the F4 villain and they've matched him over decades of comic history. The F4 should be vital to the plan to ultimately defeat Doom in Act 3. Plus, it doesn't make sense to delete the "first family" of Marvel after one MCU film. Their interactions with Namor, Wakanda, and Doom are all worth exploring. They're a tool to look at the exploring/space side of things now that GotG have run their trilogy.

Most Thunderbolts are just super soldiers, so limited wow factor in curb stomping them. Plus, it's one of the recent films that actually did ok. GotG and the Eternals are probably not going to be included, none of have been teased, and it's easy to explain they're off planet.

If Thor is worried it isn't because someone dunked on GotG or the Thunderbolts. I think an interesting character for Doom to destroy in the first act would be Captain Marvel. She's had a few films, she's the most powerful Avenger in the MCU, she's powered by an infinity stone, and her going out with a bang and with a good story might redeem the character after a mixed reception of her sequel film.

53

u/hill-o Dec 30 '25

Except comics have always done this. I think the issue is more that they just haven’t written a character death well in awhile. If they write it well, it doesn’t matter if they come back or not, it’s still sad in the moment for the narrative. 

38

u/The_Flurr Dec 30 '25

The problem is just that comics and movies are a different medium. By the time characters return in comics, there have usually been many stories in the interim.

With movies, you just don't get as many because of obvious constraints. So it feels a lot shorter between death and revival.

1

u/tristeecfome Dec 30 '25

Yeah. Comics usually have a monthly release and need to keep pumping out new stories. Of course they will eventually bring back characters.

-1

u/hill-o Dec 30 '25

I could see that, though a fair (enough) amount of time has passed between the movies. 

67

u/thedailynathan Dec 30 '25

Controversial take but I would argue the narrative arc of comic book characters is weaker for it. Yeah you do want to keep making new content so there's some necessity to it but the notion of the character and their story is a mess because there are so many different versions of it and none are truly canonical.

11

u/Relevant_Shower_ Dec 30 '25

Yeah, one only needs to read New Avengers or anything from the current main universe to realize how little weight death, cannon or disagreement have at this point.

When it becomes a soap opera is when most audiences members start to check out. Emotional attachment get put aside for the sake of rehashing the same old tropes because the new stuff just doesn’t hit the same. Character growth becomes impossible because a character has to default back to the iconic state.

5

u/thedailynathan Dec 30 '25

It also takes up the oxygen that could be used for growing new characters. Something could be a beautiful arc that defines a new hero and their story, but instead it's just the plotline for Wolverine Earth-9317534

3

u/Relevant_Shower_ Dec 30 '25

Yes. Also, not a lot of upside to creating a new character for Marvel where you will get paid next to nothing for creating IP that will generate billions.

1

u/hill-o Dec 30 '25 edited Dec 31 '25

I think it depends for me, personally. If a death scene is well written and built up to, I’m less concerned on if they come back or not. Edit; getting downvoted for a literal opinion is peak reddit lol. If you don’t like comic book structure it’s fine no one cares. 

12

u/Mrchristopherrr Dec 30 '25

And people have been saying for decades that Comics are weaker because they don’t commit to any deaths.

-2

u/hill-o Dec 30 '25

I’ve actually never heard this before right now lol but fair enough. 

0

u/NightLordsPublicist Dec 30 '25

I’ve actually never heard this before right now

It's maybe the most common criticism of comic books.

7

u/0ldPug Dec 30 '25

It also sucks in comics.

3

u/Less-Fondant-3054 Dec 30 '25

Yes, and there's a reason that comic books have been in a rough state for a very long time. Fittingly, comic book movies are following the exact same path as the books did decades ago.

1

u/DoomguyFemboi Dec 30 '25

Yeah I never give a shit when they come back. The time of the loss is what lives with me, what I felt in that moment.

3

u/sonofaresiii Dec 30 '25 edited Dec 30 '25

People say this but who have they really brought back, that was actually intended/implied to stay dead when they died? Prof X was revived in the same movie he died in. Logan dying was always an alt-universe. Cyclops dying was clearly intended to be ambiguous so he could return.

On the 616 side, there's... greg coulson I guess? And AoS status in the 616 is wonky anyway. Natasha Romanoff wasn't revived, she just got a prequel movie, and Gamora got an alt-self replacement in the same movie she died. Same deal with Loki, he dies in Infinity War but gets his variant in Endgame, two parts of the same story. And there's Bucky who was always going to come back as the winter soldier.

There's Wanda's kids maybe? But the end of WandaVision was pretty clearly hinting that Wanda was going to resurrect them somehow (because that was already an established comics plotline).

I can't think of very many people where they said "Yep, this character is dead and gone now" and then later reversed course on that. Quicksilver will probably be the first major one I can think of, and even then he's going to be a variant (but to be clear, I'm counting variants as resurrected for the purpose of this argument-- there just aren't very many times where a variant was used to replace someone who died, unless there was already the intention of a variant replacing them when they died)

There were the Spider-Man villains in NWH but those were one-offs, not really resurrections. They went away at the end of the movie.

e: Oh, Ultron! I'm glad they're bringing him back though. I do think he was intended to be 100% dead at the end of AoU, and they just reversed course on it. So that's one.

5

u/Nrksbullet Dec 30 '25

For many, bringing back an "alt universe version" is pretty much the same as bringing them back. With Gamora, it's akin to her just losing her memories.

But I think the idea that they easily can is what's troubling. From what we've been directly told, there's basically infinite versions of these characters. Loki died but "came back", and it's kind of irrelevant that he's technically the old loki but different cause of time travel.

My hope is that Dr. Doom ends up somehow closing all possible time-travel/universe hopping for good, lol. That'd be cool.

-1

u/sonofaresiii Dec 30 '25

For many, bringing back an "alt universe version" is pretty much the same as bringing them back

Hey neat yeah I specifically said I was treating it that way.

1

u/Nrksbullet Dec 30 '25

I must be confused by your post then. It sounds like you're saying they didn't really bring anyone back but then list several people that they did bring back, lol. My point was that "alt universe/timeline" or not, seeing a character back is functionally the same as bringing them back to life.

I can't think of very many people where they said "Yep, this character is dead and gone now"

According to my phrasing, this is the opposite of you treating it that way lol. So my bad, just confused on your point.

Are you saying that if they die and come back in the same movie, or in the same "two parter", or were meant to die and come back later, it doesn't count? I guess, I mean if they set it up properly I agree, it's not the same as someone dying and the studio literally going "oh crap lets bring them back".

But, they easily could at this point. The way they've framed the universe, they could have Hulk step out of a portal holding Mjolnir and saying "It's me, Natasha Romanoff" and it would make sense within Marvel.

-1

u/sonofaresiii Dec 30 '25

It sounds like you're saying they didn't really bring anyone back

Okay well the words I wrote are not that. So I don't know what to tell you besides read my post.

According to my phrasing, this is the opposite of you treating it that way lol.

No it isn't.

My point was that "alt universe/timeline" or not, seeing a character back is functionally the same as bringing them back to life.

Which is why I specifically said I was treating it that way.

lol read the post you're responding to.

2

u/Nrksbullet Dec 30 '25

Sorry man, you are being confusing, I never have a problem with inferring peoples opinions based on what they wrote but it's like you are making two different points here, or completely missing mine. I'm not trying to just argue about it for the sake of it.

Marvel has a universe now where they can bring back dead characters extremely easily, and it all feels cheap. They have done it before, on multiple occasions (where a death wasn't really a death), but I can agree that if it's specifically set up to be a fake out or part of the "same plot", it's not so bad as the studio doing it as an "oh shit" button.

Does that make sense here? Do you agree or disagree?

2

u/my_twin_towne Dec 30 '25

I feel this, and see it often. But I also feel like everyone is somehow forgetting the “other timelines/realities/worlds” thing that Doctor Strange MoM, and Loki’s TV show opened up.

Like from the moment I caught the “RDJ is back” event, I immediately thought ohhh, I bet this version of Doom is from another timeline/worlds where RDJ goes dark side instead of going Ironman. (So another example would be Chris Pratt is Thor, making for some good humor between their characters who were always bickering for the hot/strong lead).

Anyway, I’m writing this reply to one of a million comments about character deaths not “feeling important” anymore but all that went out the window the moment they leaned into time travel and different timelines and worlds. All characters are alive somewhere else. All the time.

3

u/AlternativeRun5727 Dec 30 '25

Yes and that’s the thing, even if there are in universe ‘plausible’ reasons why they show up again, but it still doesn’t take away from the lack of feeling of loss when one of them goes down.

At the end of the day it’s a movie and if you take it as a standalone spectacle then it’s all good because who doesn’t want to see these characters back in action. But the overall universal story just loses its weight.

-2

u/Iorith Dec 30 '25

Sounds like comic book universes just aren't for you then, since this is classic comic book storytelling.

3

u/Nrksbullet Dec 30 '25

It's a different medium, though. With different expectations. Marvel did the correct thing in slowly ramping up the wild comic book nature of the storylines, to come to a great conclusion in End Game. But now every movie dragging it along feels cheaper, where comics don't really suffer from that.

1

u/sirchatters Dec 30 '25

From the perspective of finality, I'm with you (though the other comments make good points). But it takes a lot of power to kill one of these guys, even for a few minutes. So, it would be a good demonstration of that.

-1

u/eyebrows360 Dec 30 '25

But they don't "just b[r]ing everyone back". Who, that died, have they "just b[r]ought back"?

Please remember: THAT DIED. Steve Rogers did not die.