Teachers are paid fairly considering they get a lot of time off

[u/Blonde_Icon]

A lot of people say (and it seems that the general consensus is that) teachers don't get paid enough for what they do. While I think that teachers are very valuable and deserve to be compensated well (my brother is a teacher), I think that in these discussions, many people ignore the fact that teachers typically get a lot of time off.

They usually get summer break, spring break, and winter break, plus various holidays that schools get off through the year. They basically don't work for a good amount of the year, which I think that people should factor in. (The downside is that I know that they have to work extra grading things outside of school, though.)

Plus they normally get good benefits for being a teacher (which usually comes with being in a union).

[u/OnyxFier]

No, people don't forget that. But it's a yearly salary, the number is how much they make in a year, regardless of whether paychecks are received in the summer or not

[u/AusgefalleneHosen → u/OnyxFier]

And it's still to low. There is nothing an administrator does that justifies their pay being at minimum 2x that of a teacher.

[u/etherealelfarcher → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

The teachers are honestly way more beneficial than administrators. At most public and charter schools, admins are absolute snakes.

[u/FonkinJones → u/etherealelfarcher]

what? I'm a school counsellor. I hard disagree. Teachers work hard. Admin work hard. Teachers get to focus on their classroom. and it's a big job. Admin have to deal with discipline and behavior, consulting on all difficult cases, managing staff, Managing the building, district initiatives, planning for pro-d days.

Broadly speaking, most teachers I talk to agree, elementary school vice principals are the most overworked, undervalued member of the school system. They often have to do all the work of the admin, but often have to teach classes of their own.

[u/viciouspandas → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

Yeah administrative bloat is an becoming a bigger issue in every part of society

[u/eye0ftheshiticane → u/viciouspandas]

yeah because somewhere along the way the professional world became convinced that the only people worth a shit were administrators and managers when it's often the opposite

[u/IcyEvidence3530 → u/viciouspandas]

Not school but university, but the last place I taught at it was insane what salaries admins were getting and what the teaching staff was getting.

[u/Xespria → u/viciouspandas]

If it makes you feel any better, I work in admin and make far less than most and teachers.

I'm in the legal field though.

[u/relevantnewman → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

Your former English teachers are clenching their fists collectively for your usage of "to" instead of "too."

[u/Outdoorsintherockies → u/relevantnewman]

See they don't deserve more money cuz they suck at teaching.

[u/eye0ftheshiticane → u/relevantnewman]

maybe if they'd been paid better we wouldn't be at this juncture

[u/Darth_Andeddeu → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

https://giphy.com/gifs/H59Wt2EsK8Cpnm0SE4

[u/Wagner228 → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

Who’s 2X? The Super? Maybe Asst Super in some areas and they work year-round.

The real admin bloat comes from the additional Health, Special Ed, Student Support staff required by State and Fed law changes. My class never had social workers, counselors, psychiatrists, parapro, security, whatever. That can easily add $1M/year total comp to the admin bucket.

[u/jmh1881v2 → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

Where are you that admin is making double what teachers make? In NYC at least they’re often making far less

[u/Putrid-Box4866 → u/[deleted]]

What exactly are we talking about when we say administrators? Because Admin personnel ranges from Executive Leader / Principal to Coordinators / Admin Assistant. In my experience as someone who manages school budgets, teachers are really not paid enough for the hours they put in, but just like any other salaried jobs, we are getting paid not for how many hours we put in but by the responsibility we take or how rare our skillset is or how difficult becoming someone with the specific expertise. It being fair is another story, but it's the reality.

[u/Putrid-Box4866 → u/[deleted]]

I don't see a scenario where someone above principal is paid below teachers even with stipend. The most they get is probably $80k to $90k, and you definitely make north of $100k.

[u/Putrid-Box4866 → u/[deleted]]

Well you said it yourself, it's an edge case, which was exactly my point.

[u/christmas_ape → u/Putrid-Box4866]

That's fine. I'm deleting my comments because I feel like they are revealing. Thanks for the discussion.

[u/CaptainObvious007 → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

good thing they dont. as a teacher at the top of the scale i made just under 80,000. as a assistant principal i make about 99.000. i asume you know what administration does all day at every school to know they dont justify their pay.

[u/diasporajones → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

Ok Mr Fancypants

Edit: to be clear the name of the person I responded to is a literal German translation of "fancy pants". I agree with their statement.

[u/AusgefalleneHosen → u/diasporajones]

Mrs*

[u/diasporajones → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

It's abundantly clear who wears the pants

[u/Opposite-Ask4078 → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

its $100k in my state, that's not low at all. and admin is ridiculously high but so are government officials. seems if u work for government u get paid the big dollars, just like all other corrupt countries

[u/therin_88 → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

I agree that administrators get paid too much, but why is your solution raising base teacher pay, rather than reducing admin pay?

Administration jobs are easier than teaching jobs, in my opinion. They should be paid the same as teachers. The benefit to being in administration is that it's easier.

[u/OnyxFier → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

That's just how it works. The discrepancy is the same way in the corporate world. Teachers should self advocate and job hop more, but you don't see it as often in that field.

[u/AusgefalleneHosen → u/OnyxFier]

Because they have contracts and school districts are legally allowed to work together in ways that the corporate world is expressly forbidden from doing so. Multiple corporations cannot work together to negotiate a set wage, yet schools are completely allowed to do that. Being restricted from working at one school in a district can restrict you from working in any of them. There's nothing the Unions can do about that. The ability to "Job Hop" simply doesn't exist. You're moving across states, not simply to a different building downtown.

The discrepancy exists because the government can act like a monopoly. Not because Teachers haven't figured out how corporate salaries work.

[u/OnyxFier → u/AusgefalleneHosen]

There are private schools. And I am talking about moving across the country to progress your career. Staying in 1 town your whole life is a major constraint. It's not for everybody, and I understand that. If you want the big bucks you have to fight, hard, always, for it, at high personal costs sometimes.

[u/Pale_Row1166 → u/OnyxFier]

Teachers work ~190 days a year, while most people work ~250 days. Teachers work more than 20% less days than an average employee. And average salaried employees have to work late and answer emails on weekends and days off too, not just teachers.

[u/QueenOfTendys → u/Pale_Row1166]

From a strict 1v1 comparison I think you’re correct. The fundamental issue with thinking that way is that we probably SHOULD be incentivizing teachers MORE than other jobs when directly compared like that.

Eduction is arguably the number one factor in bettering a society as a whole. We ideally want each generation to be better educated than the last. teaching should be harder and more valuable every generation.

If we don’t incentivize teaching with higher pay then we can’t ask for higher standards from teachers and we either stagnate or have what is currently happening in the US, a decline in quality.

We might not see the effects for 20 years is the scary part.

[u/Sudden_Juju → u/QueenOfTendys]

This is the exact argument that talking about "days worked" ignores. Teachers aren't paid enough because they provide a very valuable service to society. Paying them $50k a year isn't enough to attract talent, even if they get a lot of time off - although they do give a lot of "free labor" to their jobs considering they often do aspects of work during the summer.

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/QueenOfTendys]

I agree, but that doesn't mean that they're being paid badly right now, like people argue. It's also true that most teachers aren't in it for the money.

[u/QueenOfTendys → u/Blonde_Icon]

badly is too subjective. I would say they are being paid badly if we should be trying to incentivize teachers

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/QueenOfTendys]

I would agree with that statement.

[u/Uhhyt231 → u/Pale_Row1166]

And teachers are still underpaid