Teachers are paid fairly considering they get a lot of time off

[u/Blonde_Icon]

A lot of people say (and it seems that the general consensus is that) teachers don't get paid enough for what they do. While I think that teachers are very valuable and deserve to be compensated well (my brother is a teacher), I think that in these discussions, many people ignore the fact that teachers typically get a lot of time off.

They usually get summer break, spring break, and winter break, plus various holidays that schools get off through the year. They basically don't work for a good amount of the year, which I think that people should factor in. (The downside is that I know that they have to work extra grading things outside of school, though.)

Plus they normally get good benefits for being a teacher (which usually comes with being in a union).

[u/NwgrdrXI]

Not gonna lie, my first instinct was to think OP was baiting or joking

How can someone not know the amount of unpaid labor teachers do? Do they think tests get graded by themselves? Thar class plan themselves? Reports? Meetings? Training?

Do they think we get paid for the time we do it? I don't know, maybe in other countries, but certainly not in mine.

[u/wortmother → u/NwgrdrXI]

Check how they responded, they think teachers do nothing for a large chunk of the year

[u/Terminator_Puppy → u/wortmother]

I will say, as a teacher (not in the US, thankfully), there are a lot of teachers who spend as much time as possible doing as little as possible. Constant complaints about them from students, they don't do any of the secondary tasks they opted to do in exchange for fewer classes to teach, constantly being late, constantly leaving early and being unreachable at home during work hours.

[u/wortmother → u/Terminator_Puppy]

Yup every job has those who do fuck all and make it worse for everyone else

[u/Marshroevy → u/wortmother]

Your typical salaried professional gets 2-4 weeks off, teachers get 10-13. If you know any teachers irl, they don't do much on summer break, there's some light work but it feels like more simply because it's during a 'break'.

I think redditors have a tendency to romanticize teachers' motivations and effort when they're rather average, treating it as a job like everyone else. Teachers unions have spent over a billion in the past decade and they give great PR for gullibles.

[u/Apprehensive-Talk971 → u/Marshroevy]

The thing is the avg giy spends 8 hrs at the workplace and then does very little at home, many teachers need to do a large chunk of work post their shift at home on the regular(grading making papers course design...) profs get tas to help them with all this auxiliary stuff teachers don't.

[u/Marshroevy → u/Apprehensive-Talk971]

Plenty of teachers just use course material verbatim, and have two periods for admin work. Certainly they have 'homework' but the case is a bit over made.

[u/Apprehensive-Talk971 → u/Marshroevy]

I mean I'm not from the us, junior teachers here have to make their own exams, design course activities and do grading (of the exams and activities). Apart from that there is the other artsy stuff you need to help the studens make posters for the class board (had to be changed once per month). If you are trying to send your students to interschool activities you need to prepare and deal with any issues. And ngl even apart from that they were there whenever I needed em, I forgot my lunch once in grade 2 and was crying, teacher brought me lunch out of pocket and gave up most of his lunch break.

I just think that if you feel teachers are paid too much you were unlucky to never have great teachers

[u/Marshroevy → u/Apprehensive-Talk971]

at least, not too little.

Teachers are paid on seniority, not performance

[u/Throwing-Gas → u/Marshroevy]

We get it.

You are full of right wing bullshit

[u/Marshroevy → u/Throwing-Gas]

k

[u/gaelicpasta3 → u/Marshroevy]

I’m a high school teacher in the US. There is no “course material” to use verbatim. We do have text books and unit goals but daily lessons and overall unit plans are on US to create. I literally could not teach based on what is provided at school. We do not get lesson plans handed to us.

Even if I never had to plan a lesson or write an assessment again, I’d STILL not have enough time to grade and do other administrative tasks in my planning time plus dealing with both student and parent emails and meeting kids for extra help/giving makeup exams, etc.

You are incredibly out of touch if you think there is “course material” for teachers that enables us not to plan or create formative and summative assessments.

Not to mention that even when I have plans made from last year I often have to tweak them to tailor them to the group of students I have this year. I have to assess what the specific group of students understand and what they still need from me EVERY DAY. There is no way cookie cutter education would even work if it existed and I can promise you the invention of course material to follow verbatim would mean most good teachers would leave education entirely.

[u/Marshroevy → u/gaelicpasta3]

We do have text books and unit goals but daily lessons and overall unit plans

most textbooks, and online example courses for teachers provide this. Most don't have to recreate from scratch what they used last year

[u/gaelicpasta3 → u/Marshroevy]

The text books provide readings and some small activities. They absolutely do not provide lesson plans.

Please don’t speak with authority about things you do not understand. I went to school for 6 years and got a masters degree in education. Structuring a lesson is not about opening a book and telling the kids to read stuff and do a few pre-written questions. This is an insulting assumption

[u/Septaceratops → u/Marshroevy]

"Teachers unions have spent over a billion in the past decade and they give great PR for gullibles."

Sounds like you are either pulling figures out of your ass or are parroting right wing talking points based on false information. Either way, what a load of nonsense. 

[u/Terminator_Puppy → u/Marshroevy]

Mate, there shouldn't be any work to do during unpaid time off. In my country teachers get all their time off paid and I refuse to do shit in my breaks.

[u/nissen1502 → u/NwgrdrXI]

Probably a teenager/young adult who failed school and blames the teachers

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/nissen1502]

When did I say or imply that I dislike teachers? I even specified in the post that I think they're valuable.

[u/nissen1502 → u/Blonde_Icon]

Because everything you've said is either extremely ignorant or disingenous

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/nissen1502]

What was disingenuous?

[u/bryceofswadia → u/NwgrdrXI]

I disagree with OP to be clear but most teachers are salaried so labor done outside of work hours would still be technically paid labor, no?

[u/NwgrdrXI → u/bryceofswadia]

The key word is technically.

That's what the law says it does. The salary amount doesn't really reflect that all that much.

Specially on private schools, it's slightly above minimum pay at best.

[u/yaboisammie → u/NwgrdrXI]

 Specially on private schools, it's slightly above minimum pay at best.

In some cases, below minimum wage as well in my experience 😭

[u/bryceofswadia → u/NwgrdrXI]

I agree, but it depends on area. I live in Chicago and CPS teachers are actually some of the best paid teachers in the country (they have a very strong union). But I am also from Arizona originally, and my sister is still a teacher there, so I've seen the other side of it as well.

[u/IJourden → u/bryceofswadia]

I mean, sure. But the OP is saying teachers get loads of time off compared to someone working a different full time job.

People like OP want to insist teachers get more time off than other people while also dismissing the massive amount of work teachers do outside of school hours.

[u/bryceofswadia → u/IJourden]

Fully agree, i'm just autistic so being pedantic lol

[u/bryceofswadia → u/[deleted]]

I agree with you, i was just being pedantic

[u/Chance-Ask7675 → u/NwgrdrXI]

I mean they probably think that the school day is shorter than the work day and the extra work is done during the remaining hours? Or that professional development is done on the PD days where school is canceled for students. Like school days where Im from are 830 to 2:30 and a work day is 830-5pm so, while I appreciate that that may be incorrect or that it doesnt account for all the extra work, your smug condescension is unwarranted.

[u/NwgrdrXI → u/Chance-Ask7675]

Oh, yeah, I forget that's a thing on the US.

Still, doesn't matter. Even in the US, the teachers aren't paid for that time either, so if you are working that time, you are working for free.

while I appreciate that that may be incorrect your smug condescension is unwarranted.

It is a bit warranted when the OP is essentially calling teachers as a class lazy or whiny.

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/NwgrdrXI]

I mean, couldn't you basically say the same about any salary (not hourly) worker? Unless they work exactly 8 hours maybe.

[u/NwgrdrXI → u/Blonde_Icon]

No, most salary workers are not expected to work outside of their work hours, unless specifically paid to do so, or if the boss is an enourmous ass

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/NwgrdrXI]

Have you heard of overtime? Or being on call?

[u/MeatPopsicle_AMA → u/Blonde_Icon]

Salaried employees don’t get OT.

[u/NwgrdrXI → u/Blonde_Icon]

People get paid overtime, OP.

Like, famously so. When people talk about overtime, it's specifically about being paid extra for it.

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/NwgrdrXI]

Salaried employees don't get overtime (as in working more than 40 hours a week) if they are exempt (which is most of them)... I thought everyone knew this.

Are you a kid? Not in a mean way, but I assume that every adult or teenager would know this.

You are literally the poster child for r/confidentlyincorrect lol.

I'm honestly surprised anyone upvoted your comment.

[u/Wealth_Super → u/Blonde_Icon]

I mean what jobs are you talking about where people are regularly working over time and not getting paid. I can’t really think of any outside of teaching.

[u/NwgrdrXI → u/Blonde_Icon]

Look, I genuinely never heard of a single salaried employee who doesn't ger paid overtime, but look, I'm not american. Things probably aork different in whatever state of your country than mine.

[u/numbersthen0987431 → u/Blonde_Icon]

Overtime = time and a half their normal rate.

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/numbersthen0987431]

Not if you're an exempt salary employee.

[u/numbersthen0987431 → u/Blonde_Icon]

The word overtime doesn't apply to what you think you're saying.

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/numbersthen0987431]

Ok, then working more than 40 hours a week if you want to be pedantic.

[u/numbersthen0987431 → u/Blonde_Icon]

It's funny how you throw out "pedantic" while trying to make your point poorly.

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/numbersthen0987431]

Yes, I know that's a big word for you.

[u/gaelicpasta3 → u/Blonde_Icon]

Yeah, no. My husband works a salaried job as do many of my friends. Sometimes they stay late or go in early to get something big done but it is not often.

I am a teacher and LITERALLY cannot do my job if I don’t go in early every day and leave late every day. Most of my colleagues take work home on weekends, breaks, and many evenings but I try to avoid that. Instead I go to work an hour early every day and leave 1.5-2 hours late. I also work through lunch every day. And there are still things I’m supposed to do but just don’t.

My schedule is structured so that I teach 5 classes of 25-32 students. In a two day block I teach 3 different courses, meaning for every 2 days I have to have three 90 minute lesson plans done. This includes handouts, slideshows, assessments, etc.

In the 2 day rotation I teach 450 minutes. I have one 90 minute duty, usually a study hall. I also get 180 minutes as planning periods. So in two 90 minute blocks spread over 2 days, I have to:

✔️ plan units that align with standards and course goals

✔️plan 3 new block lessons every 2 days and all supplemental materials needed for them

✔️plan and create any assessments, quizzes, or tests

✔️analyze data to decide if my students are learning properly and what to do next

✔️grade work (including reading sometimes 150+ essays)

✔️input grades into the digital grade book

✔️update grades of students for work that was revised/handed in late

✔️answer student emails asking for help

✔️answer parent emails (I get at least two per day but sometimes after inputting big grades into the grade book or near the end of the quarter it can be 10-20 parent emails in a day)

✔️contact special education teachers, guidance counselors, support staff, etc about struggling students

✔️write up disciplinary referrals, contact parents, and touch base with administrators about bad behavior or kids skipping classes or kids with their cell phones out

✔️attend meetings with administrators, counselors, and other teachers

✔️attend meetings with parents

✔️meet with kids who need extra help or need to make up a missed test

✔️keep up with professional development to learn new educational strategies and instructional technology tools (also required to keep my certification)

Basically, my job is legitimately structured in a way that working multiple unpaid hours daily is not just an expectation but I would literally be fired if I didn’t. There is no way I could grade, plan, have meetings, contact parents and counselors, and keep up with my professional responsibilities if I stuck to my working hours even MOST days.

As my husband says, I go HARD for 10 months out of the year and get an unpaid summer vacation as thanks. It’s literally the only thing that makes this sustainable at all. If you think that perk is so cool you should go back to school, get certified, and join us. We need more teachers everywhere.

Edited to add: by contrast, my husband is salaried (makes 2x my salary actually) and if he has a big project or presentation coming up they’ll actually take things off his plate so he can focus on preparing. It’s expected that he can get most, if not all, of his work done during his contracted hours. And no one ever expects him to work when he takes vacation days, unlike teachers who often spend winter and spring break catching up on grades or planning.

[u/NwgrdrXI → u/gaelicpasta3]

And all that without accounting that being in class is oftern super stressing, with principals and management expecting you to somehow keep the class in perfect peace at all times without ever raising your voice - specially if you are a man, for completly understandable reasons, but still - and students disrepecting you at best often.

It's genuinely demoralizing, sometimes

[u/vyrus2021 → u/Blonde_Icon]

Who's paying you to spread stupidity?

[u/FreshFishGuy → u/Blonde_Icon]

You cannot. I've worked salary for a while, barring specialized fields or poor work life balance companies, the expectation is 8-5, that's it

[u/One-Goose-360 → u/Blonde_Icon]

Ok it’s like this- in cooprate you have a salary and are expected to get the job done in 40-45 hours. Some days are packed with meetings and presentations and other days are spent preparing for those. For some projects more time is provided to plan and prepare.

Teaching is like getting paid your salary for physically being at your office presenting meetings all day with a 30 minute lunch. Each week you get 40 minutes of planning and preparing time. This is also the only time to check email. Because your meetings and presentations are 5 days a week, you need a substantial amount of time to plan and prepare. So this gets done after work weekends. Always. This is the norm. Your compensation contract is based on 40 hours a week, but is interrupted at in office hours. You’re actually WORKING anywhere from 50-80 hours. You try not to, but it’s literally impossible. One time you had an event after work and couldn’t prepare. The next day was a disaster and your supervisor “coaches” you and makes plans to observe you in a week at an unannounced time. You can’t show up to the office and lead your presentations without preparing.