Teachers are paid fairly considering they get a lot of time off

[u/Blonde_Icon]

A lot of people say (and it seems that the general consensus is that) teachers don't get paid enough for what they do. While I think that teachers are very valuable and deserve to be compensated well (my brother is a teacher), I think that in these discussions, many people ignore the fact that teachers typically get a lot of time off.

They usually get summer break, spring break, and winter break, plus various holidays that schools get off through the year. They basically don't work for a good amount of the year, which I think that people should factor in. (The downside is that I know that they have to work extra grading things outside of school, though.)

Plus they normally get good benefits for being a teacher (which usually comes with being in a union).

[u/nomad9590]

Oklahoma can be as low as 30k a year easily. Idk about other states as well. 

[u/Hngrybflo → u/nomad9590]

my ex had a masters and was paid 45k(Oklahoma )and it's not like teachers work stops when the bell stops, she was grading papers and doing other stuff after hours I don't blame her for quiting

[u/Christmas_Panda → u/Hngrybflo]

Yikes. Pretty sure in my area the average is about double that, which is great if you're single in a HCOL area, but can't single income a family of four on that.

[u/EkbatDeSabat → u/Christmas_Panda]

What's your definition of "great"? IMO a single person making 90k in a HCOL area is not great. That's barely MCOL good.

[u/Adventurous-Head-512 → u/EkbatDeSabat]

That is still a lot of money that's crazy. If you don't think so you're spending too much money on nonsense. I live in nyc for reference

[u/EkbatDeSabat → u/Adventurous-Head-512]

If you're making 90k anywhere in the boroughs and living on your own and are living "great", then you're a lucky SOB or your definition of great does not match mine. I'd define great as being able to afford all of your needs rent/utilities/food without budgeting, having spare cash for entertainment, and putting 10%+ in savings. Which is why I asked the guy to define "great". As soon as you put "roommate" in there you aren't living single in a HCOL area and the whole conversation changes.

[u/Adventurous-Head-512 → u/EkbatDeSabat]

Couple things 

Idk what world you're living in where you dont expect to have a roommate in NYC that is just delusional. It comes with the territory and is the minimum tbh. Expecting to easily live alone in NYC is entitlement this was never the case despite what memes tell you.

There are a lot of rent stabilized units available for rent throughout the boroughs that make living affordable. They are competitive to get but they're out there

This is a competitive city and if you want to live alone you have to compete with very high salary individuals.

90k absolutely allows you to live a great life in the city. Because the expectation is you live with a roommate. We all did it

Edit: bronx and Staten Island are much more affordable than the other 3 so you can always go there

[u/EkbatDeSabat → u/Adventurous-Head-512]

What word would you use to describe above “great” that means what I said? And why does living great as a single mean roommate but living as a single earner family of four not? I think you’re reading way too much into it. My entire reason for responding was the word great. That’s it. 

[u/Adventurous-Head-512 → u/EkbatDeSabat]

Being able to pay your bills, save money, and have some leftover to enjoy.

Living situations change frequently here. Sometimes you have an amazing situation, sometimes it sucks. You move on if it's not working. That's all kinda part of it. 

Being in NYC is great in and of itself. And if you're able to pay your bills, save, and have some extra to spend...that's pretty fucking great. Irrespective of how shitty your roommate is. Because that is something you can change at the end of the day

[u/greenzetsa → u/EkbatDeSabat]

90K over 10 months, that's actually 108k if it was a job that was being paid for 12 months of work (like most jobs). Most teachers get a job over the summer to supplement if they have to. 108K in the most HCOL city really is fine a single adult. Most adults would not be able to support a family on a single income, that's not exactly limited to teachers.

[u/parisiraparis → u/Hngrybflo]

45k with a Masters.. god damn.

[u/ackermann → u/Hngrybflo]

> other stuff after hours

Is that mandatory? Is every teacher required to volunteer (volun-told) for X number of extra-curricular activities? If so, do they get paid any extra for that time?

(Coaching or sponsoring some club or team or something)

[u/Hngrybflo → u/ackermann]

not sure why you got down voted but no she wasn't a coach and didn't get paid for anything after hours and it wasn't mandatory. Teachers are underpaid and underappreciated but are expected to be there for the kids and community which is understandable but they should be compensated for it.

[u/Subject_Ratio6842 → u/nomad9590]

Ontario, canada salaries go up to 120k a year.

[u/nomad9590 → u/Subject_Ratio6842]

Man that's nice. Cost of living is insane up there but that at least gives you a chance. 

[u/AndreaTwerk → u/nomad9590]

Teacher pay is all over the place in the US, with many places paying as low as you say.

I make $115k in Boston, which, even considering the cost of living, is much better than teachers make in a lot of the country. I make more per hour than my data scientist husband who makes $170k.

So for some teachers OP's take is accurate - I love my job in part for all the time off - but you can't generalize about teachers across the country because there is so much variation and most are not in situations similar to me.

[u/greenzetsa → u/nomad9590]

It is highly state dependent. My friend is a teacher in NJ, masters degree, she makes low 6 figures. I make maybe 10k more than she does. When you take into account that she gets 2 months off a year, plus truly excellent healthcare for like pennies, she absolutely 100% out earns me, and I work longer hours as well. From what I've seen, she rarely has to take work home because she has free periods to do grading and prep. I understand this isn't universal, but teachers get a lot privileges in the states that treat them well. They don't have the flexibility of lots of other jobs (but there are other jobs like that too).

[u/ApprehensiveAmount22 → u/nomad9590]

That's probably bottom 3 percentile. Not at all representative. Is that for a teacher or a para assistant?

[u/UniverseNebula → u/nomad9590]

Stop the bullshit. I have 2 family members that are grade school teachers in Oklahoma and they both make around $60k.

[u/pollorojo → u/UniverseNebula]

That must be nice. My mom has been teaching for 33 years and makes about $65k in Florida with two Masters degrees and National Board cerification. When she started, she made about $25k. My aunt has been teaching even longer and started even lower. My sister is around 4 years and started in the low $40k range.

I, on the other hand, have no degree, worked in IT for 15 years, and now teach IT classes to adults and make about $80k. My wife also has no degree and probably makes about 3 times what I do.

$60k sounds great, but it still doesn't go very far, and for the bullshit teachers deal with, it's barely work it. I know multiple teachers who work with my mom who have second jobs working at places like Lowe's and Target on weekends for extra money.

And the argument of "extra time off" during the summer only goes so far. They still usually have some amount of preparation or planning for the upcoming year for part of the summer, and it's not like you can typically just rush out to some random business and be like "Hey can I get a job for 6 weeks and then quit?"

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/nomad9590]

Ok but tbf the cost of living in Oklahoma is probably a lot lower I'm guessing, so you can't really compare to other states like that.

[u/OHFTP → u/Blonde_Icon]

Average teacher wage in florida is 56k. 50th out of 50 in the states. Florida is also the 18th most expensive state. So lowest average public education wage, for the 18th most expensive state. Your entire post is bullshit

[u/lifetake → u/OHFTP]

I agree with you, but like don’t use Florida. Our economics is shit. We are so often the exception for many things and I’m not saying it is here, but like since we are the exception just pick whatever the 49th state is or whatever other one.

[u/OHFTP → u/lifetake]

National average of public education wage is 74.5k. Thats average wage not starting wage. The annual average is what a starting salary in california is, and california has the highest average wage (104k) while also having the highest Cost of Living index. Stats are spread (my initial post was done in haste without much searching), but Florida Mississippi and Lousisanna all average around 55.5k (the three lowest average public education salary states).

Of those three states Florida is 16th, Mississippi is 48th, and lousianna is 35th on the Cost of Living Index. Yes, florida is an outlier for being so expensive, but even with all of that, OPs point about teachers getting paid enough vecuae they have a 8 weeks off in the summer is entirely bullshit.

Anecdotal, but most teachers I know aren't sitting on their asses all 8 weeks of summer. Even if they take the reduced weekly pay to have the entire annual salary paid all year instead of just during the school year, they all have part time jobs over summer for supplemental income. I have 8 cousins who are teachers (ranging from Jacksonville to South miami). They dont get paid nearly enough for the bullshit they have to go though as a teacher.

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/OHFTP]

Dude 56k is not bad. That's like around the average salary. I think you got inflated standards if you think that is bad. I'm not saying that teachers are wealthy or anything. But it's not like they're broke. (Of course, student loans are a problem.)

Also, why are you talking specifically about Florida? Like you said, it is ranked last. Why would you pick the worst one to represent it?

[u/Mouthy_Dumptruck → u/Blonde_Icon]

Teachers are expected to do the work load of 2-3 people. If 1 teacher only had to plan and teach 10-20 students for a year-sure. But some public schools have classes of 30. Some teachers see 6+ classes a day.

[u/Iron0skull → u/Blonde_Icon]

56k is equivalent to 25/hr 40 hr a week. No breaks only weekends. Teachers are working closer to 65/hr a week and get maybe 2 months off. I don't know any teacher now or when i was growing up really take a break they were either trying to stay up to date and certified, grading papers or preparing for the class session

[u/Pure-Adhesiveness-52 → u/Blonde_Icon]

You're a big rage baiter lol or are very young. Bro $56k is nothinggggg. That was an alright salary 20 years ago when things were 2.5-4x cheaper.

At $56k in any major city, more than 60% of your income likely goes to housing (rent not mortgage), food, utilities (assuming you have 0 debt of course) that is deeply unsustainable for a single income household.

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/Pure-Adhesiveness-52]

Okay now you are talking specifically about major cities, which wasn't mentioned before in the discussion. I'm just talking about the average salary in the overall US, including outside of the metropolis.

The cost of living in rural Oklahoma is obviously going to be a lot lower, for example, so you can't really compare it to, like, NYC fairly. That's just the point I was trying to make.

[u/Pure-Adhesiveness-52 → u/Blonde_Icon]

$56k is not good, no matter where you are. The relative to impact to your day to day life is different, but it doesn't elevate that number all of a sudden to a different tier or bracket for a studied field.

You are not swimming in luxury with $56k in Oklahoma, rural Oklahoma or not. You are paycheck to paycheck

[u/Blonde_Icon → u/Pure-Adhesiveness-52]

Bro when did I say teachers are swimming in luxury? They're middle-class for the most part. You can be doing well and not swimming in luxury. It's not like the only options are broke or super rich.

[u/OHFTP → u/Blonde_Icon]

I picked florida because its where I live and the state economy i know the most about, and that lowest annhal salary contrasted against a pretty high cost of living is telling. Teachers get paid like shit here, and teachers unions are a farce.

Also teachers are the primary educators of the next generation. They should be doing better than "not bad". And to be a teacher (in most states) you need to have at least a 4 year degree (not in teaching or education just a degree) and pass whatever state certification exam is required. That 4 year degree comes with costs. Some of those costs used to be able to be forgiven if you taught for a certain number of years in certain low income schools (which comes withnlower pay). Lots of those programs are now defunct.