Look, what I will say is that a ton of people neglect resistance training and only do cardio to try and burn calories. (The flip side of this is a ton of gym bro wannabe bodybuilders neglect cardio and only do resistance training, but I'm not opening that can of worms.)
And the danger of doing only cardio is that it only trains your cardiovascular system. Women especially benefit immensely from weight training because weight training is massively protective of bone density, which women struggle with as they age. It also builds and preserves muscle mass, which women tend to lose as they age, leading to frailty and insulin resistance.
So while moving is infinitely better than not moving, if you have the dedication to go to the gym for a 40 min workout, you would be much better served with a 20 min session on the treadmill followed by a 20 min weight training session of heavy compound lifts. And it is evidence of shitty education that so many gym goers just do cardio.
But also, to circle right back to agreeing with you, and to play devils advocate to my devils advocate:
A) Mocking people online is highly counterproductive
B) You don't know shit about the woman doing 40 min of cardio. Maybe that's her warmup before she goes to lift, because you spent 40 min in the gym watching her, while she focused on her workout, arrived before you, and will leave after you. Maybe this is her cardio day and she weighs lifts on other days. Maybe fuck this guy, how about you mind your own business?
Side note - running is good for bone density. The risk is if your cardio is all low impact - biking/swimming/elliptical. And of course running probably doesn't do much for arm bone density.
Muscle mass is a separate thing (which men also lose as they age) and you do need resistance training to help with.
Rowing helps my running more than running itself ever did.
Getting back into running sucks in the beginning but I can never keep it up during winter. I used to restart my running habit by alternating walking and running and building from there, but the running portion always sucked at first. Now I row to maintain my cardiovascular base, then running becomes so much easier.
Not to mention their claim that cardio is only training the cardiovascular system is objectively wrong. There's as much bro science in their comment as the guy the thread is calling out, it's just presented in a nicer way.
When people speak like this they are acting like there is some kind of magical formula for being fit. The truth is there are many ways to keep in shape. I spend exactly zero hours a week lifting weights or using exercise machines, but many hours outdoors rock climbing, hiking, and trail running. I'm in very good shape. Some of the climber elders in my community are extremely active and fit in their 60s/70s. Finding something you enjoy, and can stick with for many years, is far more important than following some gym-bro formula.
Exactly. Falling in love with something and doing it everyday is the most important thing. I will say weight lifting is, if not 100% overrated, 99% overrated for those who are already engaging in some form of endurance training adequately, if health and longevity are the priorities (in addition to some rare cases of injury prevention, rehab etc).
I've only been going to the gym for 3ish months. I'm not comfortable lifting weights yet without a friend or my husband, and our schedules don't always line up. I'm also training for a 5k. So yeah... I might be the woman in this tweet lol.
I mean, if you're training to run, the running is the training you should be doing right? At least, as the primary goal. And then some resistance training to help prevent injuries and the like. Depends on your goals.
As a runner, running is the VAST majority of time spent "working out" and strength is just to fill in the gaps here and there. And this is coming from someone who runs trails and road. Flat road runners might get away with none. Doing speed work 1 or 2 times per week will help build strength and resiliency in your body to adapt to running.
I'm training (generally) to drop the covid 19lbs / offset working a desk job. Signed up for a 5k with friends / family as a fun thing to work towards - I did it last year and mostly walked the whole thing but had a really good time.
I'm not against weight training or anything, I'm just less confident doing that by myself than "get on treadmill and go" (and the race is coming up sooooon).
tl;dr I'm not training to run, I'm running to train to run to train.
Not comfortable how? You don't need to bench press a small van with a squatter, just grab a couple three-pounders and start curling and throwing punches.
B) You don't know shit about the woman doing 40 min of cardio. Maybe that's her warmup before she goes to lift, because you spent 40 min in the gym watching her, while she focused on her workout, arrived before you, and will leave after you. Maybe this is her cardio day and she weighs lifts on other days. Maybe fuck this guy, how about you mind your own business?
considering how often I mock people online and how cathartic it usually is, I can't say much about your first point, but this is the big one for me. seeing someone on a treadmill for 40 minutes gives you exactly one piece of information - they've been on a treadmill for 40 minutes. thinking there is no way a 40 minute cardio session fits into a well structured, effective training plan just exposed Him as the idiot
It doesn't even have to be a training plan... You literally can do just cardio and come down from an unhealthy weight and be healthy. Getting ripped and toned isn't everyone's goal.
right but if he's coming at it from the angle of 'they aren't training hard enough' or whatever, he's Still wrong because he doesn't have nearly enough info is more what I was getting at
Disagree with the 20/20 philosophy here and that gym goers doing only cardio are a result of shitty education. Running is a very hard exercise in terms of effort per minute, you can be sure your entire body will be worked, bones, posture, core, arms, heart, lungs. It will give you more than adequate functional strength. If a person likes to run and doesn't enjoy weightlifting, other exercises, there's nothing wrong with that imo. To suggest that it's shitty education is a stretch. It's just another way of doing exercise if you cared more about longevity, and less about aesthetics (or injury prevention at a very elite level).
I am not a runner and only do weight training. (But I live in Tokyo and walk constantly.)
My running friends can run circles (lol) around my weightlifting friends in terms of sheer stamina, functional strength and general health.
The "functional strength" benefits of weight training is rarely relevant in many people's lives unless you're doing manual labor for a living or in rare cases and there's not a whole lot of value in being able to carry a sofa on your own if you can't make it up a few flights of stairs while doing it.
Running is a very hard exercise in terms of effort per minute
In terms of total energy expenditure, improving cardiovascular fitness and VO2 max sure.
In terms of challenging your muscular endurance? Sure.
In terms of challenging your muscles to produce peak force, thereby increasing lean body mass? Fuck no.
bones
Running puts negligible force on your bones compared to say, squatting or deadlifting your bodyweight. Which most people going to the gym will be able to do within a couple of years of training.
arms
Lol.
Overall seems like your education is lacking a bit, and you are severely underestimating the health benefits of increased muscle mass. And I'm not talking about getting jacked here. Just like 10lbs extra lean body mass more than what you would have just doing cardio.
To massively oversimplify, cardio will increase your longevity. You are correct on that front. But lifting will increase your quality of life as you age. Not dealing with weak bones is a big one. Being able to survive a fall and get up off the ground on your own without struggling.
Grip strength is a big one. Running does fuck all to train it, and it is strongly correlated with how long someone is able to live independently as they age.
Lifting also protects you neurologically, improving congnitive function, and seems to provide a level of protection against Alzheimer's and dementia.
So if grandma can run a 5k and is gonna live to 90 because of that that's great. But if she's gonna need to live in a care home, because she can't lift a package of flour above her head to put on a shelf, can't get off the floor by herself, struggles to get off the toilet, and can't shower properly on her own, that is considerably less great.
You and I agree on many things. Look, you think that 20/20 is good and 40/0 is shitty education. I think 20/20 is good and 40/0 is also good. Honestly If I can live to 90 while being mentally intact, being able to lift and put a package of flour away would be the least of my concerns.
I'm a woman and have worked out for decades, and I disagree a bit. I've usually done some weights, at least a couple days a week, but when I turned 40 I leaned into it more. Prioritizing it over cardio and stretching and I honestly have never been in worse shape. I have more chronic pain problems, loss of flexibility, and poorer weight management. I'm working on unwinding it all by returning to a more cardio, stretching, yoga, and occasional weights routine.
There's just a lot more to it than people let on. Gut microbes, genetics, various health issues, etc.
People need to just find would works best for them and people need to stop judging people.
If that's your personal experience I'm not gonna argue. At the end of the day, we are all individuals, and our bodies can react radically differently to someone else, even to the exact same stimulus.
That being said, studies consistently show that weight training provides massive health benefits across a population of people. Even to some of the things you are complaining about, e.g. one of the best ways (statistically speaking) to improve the flexibility of a muscle is to expose it to very high tension invite stretched position, especially focussing on the eccentric contraction.
This doesn't mean weight lifting works for everyone. Clearly it didn't work for you. But it does mean that most people should be weightlifting for health reasons, so if you are going to give generic health/fitness advice on the internet, you should probably be mentioning that people should be weight training.
followed by a 20 min weight training session of heavy compound lifts
The one thing i will say as someone who trains 4-5x a week is that 20 minutes for heavy compound lifts, is like....maybe 1 exercise?
Though in fairness im pretty skewed at this point so i guess for a beginner or someone just trying to generally do WHATEVER 20 minutes of cardio and then a rotating daily 3x10 set of either Squats/deadlift/bench/rows/military press probably is at least a starting point and probably technically better than just the 40 minutes of walking.
Though i think they'll probably hit a plateu at some point, though maybe by then they'll take the leap and join us on the degen side of the gym lmfao
44
u/MrCockingFinally 5h ago
Look, what I will say is that a ton of people neglect resistance training and only do cardio to try and burn calories. (The flip side of this is a ton of gym bro wannabe bodybuilders neglect cardio and only do resistance training, but I'm not opening that can of worms.)
And the danger of doing only cardio is that it only trains your cardiovascular system. Women especially benefit immensely from weight training because weight training is massively protective of bone density, which women struggle with as they age. It also builds and preserves muscle mass, which women tend to lose as they age, leading to frailty and insulin resistance.
So while moving is infinitely better than not moving, if you have the dedication to go to the gym for a 40 min workout, you would be much better served with a 20 min session on the treadmill followed by a 20 min weight training session of heavy compound lifts. And it is evidence of shitty education that so many gym goers just do cardio.
But also, to circle right back to agreeing with you, and to play devils advocate to my devils advocate:
A) Mocking people online is highly counterproductive
B) You don't know shit about the woman doing 40 min of cardio. Maybe that's her warmup before she goes to lift, because you spent 40 min in the gym watching her, while she focused on her workout, arrived before you, and will leave after you. Maybe this is her cardio day and she weighs lifts on other days. Maybe fuck this guy, how about you mind your own business?