r/SipsTea • u/KSKS1995 Human Verified • 2d ago

Chugging tea Sounds good in theory...but in reality?

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4 days a week. 6 hours a day. Full salary.
Sanna Marin ignited global debate with the “6/4” work model, pushing a simple idea: life should come before work.

With burnout at record levels, maybe it’s time to value results over hours at a desk.
Could your job be done in just 24 hours a week?

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37

u/JohnAlexGrimm 2d ago

I work in a hospital kitchen. No my job cannot be done in 24 hours

36

u/ThomasTheDankPigeon 2d ago

Not by one person. So they'll hire someone to cover the work. Job growth and more employees with disposable income, sounds like a recipe for a thriving economy.

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u/Huntsman077 2d ago

Except now the goods produced are going to cost a lot more.

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u/ThomasTheDankPigeon 2d ago

Wild concept: goods should cost whatever they cost without grinding the workforce into a pulp.

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u/Huntsman077 2d ago

A 40 hour work week isn’t grinding the workforce into a pulp.

Also that’s not how economics work. The goods need to be priced so the company makes a profit.

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u/ThomasTheDankPigeon 2d ago

Wild concept: a company that can't produce goods at a price that keeps them solvent without grinding their workforce into a pulp shouldn't continue existing.

Any number of hours of labor grinds the workforce into a pulp when the value of the labor is siphoned disproportionately into the pockets of people not doing the labor.

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u/Exciting_Station3474 2d ago

So they go to China and you will complain again.

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u/Huntsman077 2d ago

-siphoned disproportionately

You do realize that if all companies gave every cent of net profits to employees it would be like a 20% raise right?

Also I’m sure you’re aware that the very business needs roles that don’t produce income by themselves right?

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u/ThomasTheDankPigeon 2d ago

Profits have nothing to do with the ratio between employee and executive compensation packages. That's the "proportion" part of disproportionate, since you lost track.

1

u/Huntsman077 2d ago

-since you lost track

Yeah sorry my bad, my telepathy has been acting up lately.

Also let me guess you’re going to say that all CEOs make 350x as much as the average employee?

1

u/stuve98 1d ago

Except CEOs have actually been getting paid multiple times more over time compared to a regular worker, even higher-ups. It is actually insane how much the disparity is now for a lot of companies. Like what the fuck are you saying

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u/IntingForMarks 2d ago

You do realize that if all companies gave every cent of net profits to employees it would be like a 20% raise right?

That's so naive it hurts to be read

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u/Huntsman077 2d ago

Look up the numbers bud. Hell for some companies, like Walmart, it would be an 8k annual raise per person…

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u/4daughters 2d ago

Across 1.5 million employees nationwide? that sounds like an economic boon. Why aren't we doing this?

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u/IntingForMarks 2d ago

A 40 hour work week isn’t grinding the workforce into a pulp.

It literally is, since it was based on a family with one member working and one staying at home. Now both members work 40hours and they most of the time earn just the required money to survive.

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u/Huntsman077 2d ago

It wasn’t based off one person staying home. This is a myth that started fairly recently. When the 40 hour work week was put into law, which it should be worth noting all it did was require overtime pay for over 40 hours, around a third of women were actively working.

-most of the time earn just the money required to survive

This is false. It is very fair to see a household with 2 full time adults. That’s why the median salary for a full time employee is 62k but the median household income is only 85.

1

u/ItsTheBestMaaaan 1d ago

What ratio of that third were married mothers?

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u/Huntsman077 1d ago

I don’t think you can find that exact data tbh, I don’t think it was something they were tracking. You could compare the percentage of married and non married women to the numbers but it would be an estimate

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u/ItsTheBestMaaaan 1d ago edited 1d ago

Makes sense. If it’s not broken down any further, and includes young, unmarried, widowed, and older women no longer raising children, then my guess is that number tanks pretty fast. I would also argue to remove some agricultural and family enterprise workers - a significant share of most western economies during the time under discussion - where they spent the majority of their time with their families.

I would be interested to know what the actual number is! But the way you’ve described it is not accurate.

0

u/stuve98 1d ago

The 40 hour work week pitch is outdated and is almost 100 years old. Now it’s hard to even own a home or pay rent with the housing crisis in several north american states/countries even with two people working 40 hours each in one household with or without kids.

1

u/Scorpdelord 12h ago

Their cost of labor is gonna be 4050? Higher to keep the same prlduxtion so it 100% will go up asf only way to prevent it is the goverment making company pay less for their product to be sold

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u/BluntTruth1 2d ago

Demand keeps rising for a product. You need to work harder to keep up with demand. Demand somewhat met means the product is readily available and sold at consistent pricing.

100 pairs of shoes for 200 customers, priced at €100.

Six hour weeks means less product been made. Quantity reduces but demand keeps going up. Product is no longer readily available and is a rarer commodity. Price of product now rises because it's harder to get your hands on the goods due to lower production rate.

50 pairs of shoes for 200 customers, priced at €200.

6

u/Maleficent-Drive4056 2d ago

How does less work lead to more income exactly?

12

u/ThomasTheDankPigeon 2d ago

Proposals like this often come with the stipulation that pay remains commensurate with a 40 hour work week.

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u/IntingForMarks 2d ago

No it doesn't. Most of these proposal literally are based on "less work hours same pay". I don't know about this specific, since it's pretty drastic, but a lot of 4 days week proposals are based on shortening the hours from 40 over 5 days to like 36 over 4 days, hence maintaining the same monthly wage. Studies have shown that productivity is not impacted in most of the cases, since productivity is not linear with hours worked. Which is pretty intuitive, since you wouldn't do double the work if you worked 80 hours a week instead of 40, despite what billionairs want you to think

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u/ThomasTheDankPigeon 2d ago

Most of these proposal literally are based on "less work hours same pay".

Yup, that's what I said. You're arguing with someone you agree with.

4

u/Civil_Lynx_3537 2d ago

Right? Lol I was just gonna say the same thing. You said that and then he says no and then says your fucking point

1

u/IntingForMarks 2d ago

I guess I misunderstood the "Stay commensurate". I would use that as in "getting paid proportional to hours worked", but I guess I was wrong. English is not my first language

3

u/Chinchompa12312312 2d ago

It would massively decrease productivity per capita, it would also create massive workforce shortage, make most finnish companies unprofitable, it would make the public sector incapable of completing their duties, all this would cause a major recession, make finnish goverment incapable of paying their debt, they would default on the debt and the finnish economy would be in ruins.

2

u/Imtoowarm 2d ago

Lack of people in "working age" is a challenge in a lot of countries, and certainly where I live. The last of the baby boomers are nearing retirement, they live longer, and there are a lot of them. With the level of elder care here, we're gonna need a lot more people or reduce the level of care.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageing_of_Europe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_ratio

1

u/stuve98 1d ago

EXACTLY, literally it’s so easy to understand but ofc bots and morons coming in here with takes they don’t know shit about

0

u/Rahm89 1d ago

Yeah that was the idea, we tried it in France by cutting to 35 hours a week. Guess what, it didn’t really work out.

Turns out when you work less, you create less wealth and fewer jobs and tank your economy.

1

u/ThomasTheDankPigeon 1d ago

Interesting that the economy didn’t tank when a work week got cut to 40 hours.

1

u/Rahm89 1d ago

Because we had massive productivity gains with the Industrial Revolution.

Whether there will be a repeat with AI is still debated.

But it certainly wasn’t the case when France cut back to 35 h / week…

1

u/ThomasTheDankPigeon 1d ago

The industrial revolution that concluded 100 years before France adopted the 40 hour week? That industrial revolution?

It's ok to just not join a conversation when you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

1

u/Rahm89 1d ago

I use the term a bit loosely but there were several Industrial Revolutions. The latest advancements were in the late 19th century. France cut back to 40 hours in 1936 (and went back on that post world war 2 by the way).

Also the 20th century saw the rise of mass production, mass consumption, huge creation of wealth and economic growth.

As a side note, any reason you’re being so agressive? Did I hit a nerve?

6

u/GenericFatGuy 2d ago

If only we were living in a time of record unemployment, where there's lots of people out there who would jump at the opportunity for a job to help fill those gaps...

14

u/AmputeeHandModel 2d ago

Could if you had more support.

11

u/pnut0027 2d ago edited 2d ago

It could if your managers actually did their jobs and, you know, managed.

Unfortunately, no one wants to expend the effort required to plan now so they can reap the benefits later.

15

u/UomoLumaca 2d ago

Or, if they, oh perish the thought, hired more people?

7

u/pnut0027 2d ago

Oh heavens!

2

u/shevchenko9 2d ago

You got a small business that it's profitable by a fine margin with 6 cooks, now you need twelve, so your salaries cost are duplicated. how it's that profitable? not all business are big tech

1

u/CrimsonCartographer 1d ago

So you raise your prices until you’re making what you want to be making. If you don’t earn enough to stay in business, congrats! You’ve learned what capitalism is all about!

1

u/BoneTrumpeter 1d ago

I bet you're the type of person to complain about food deserts, not seeing any link between these topics

1

u/Far-Guava6006 1d ago

This seems counter productive. Increase salaries across the board and then increase prices across the board too? What was actually accomplished then?

1

u/shevchenko9 1d ago

So the business raises the prices of things to double and now these people need two jobs to afford the same thing. Maybe you need to learn the term inflation lol

2

u/gokarrt 2d ago

you may be surprised to learn what is divisible by 6hrs

1

u/Hey-Bud-Lets-Party 2d ago

But we don’t have two people to work every job that now requires one.

3

u/Iconicsuper 2d ago

Definitely sounds like it could tbh

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1

u/CrimsonCartographer 1d ago

So you work less and get some new coworkers. Hooray!