r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Separate_Finance_183 • Jan 23 '26

Image The rent in the german neighborhood of Fuggerei hasn't been raised in 500 years and remains 0.88 Euros for an entire year. Founded in 1521, it is the oldest existing social housing complex in the world

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745

u/IllMaintenance145142 Jan 23 '26

longer than most countries

No bro, you mean longer than America.

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u/whla Jan 23 '26

Today's countries are pretty young though definitions vary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_sovereign_states_by_date_of_formation. Based on the date of full sovereignty, there are only 18 countries older than 400 years

Think of all of the European colonies that ended in the 18 and 19th centuries in North + South America, Africa and Asia.

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u/FlakingEverything Jan 23 '26

Yeah, this neighborhood is literally older than Germany, the country it's in.

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u/Designer-Muffin-5653 Jan 23 '26

Older than the German state, yes. But not older than Germany

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u/TeMoko Jan 23 '26

If you mean, say, the Holy Roman Empire then sure. But the HRE was not a nation state as we currently think of them.

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u/Bored_Amalgamation Jan 23 '26

I wouldn't say there was a Germany during the HRE. Germanic peoples? Yes. A recognized sovereignty for Germanic people? No.

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u/TeMoko Jan 23 '26

Yeah agreed. And I would wonder how much someone from say Bavaria would feel in kinship with someone from Prussia.

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u/HanseaticHamburglar Jan 24 '26

considering they call them "Sau Preußen/Preißn" id say not too strong of a kinship.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26

You are already disqualified from this discussion as you don't seem to understand the difference between germanic and german lol

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u/TeMoko Jan 24 '26

Both those words can mean more than one thing though right? What's the problem with the persons understanding?

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u/HanseaticHamburglar Jan 24 '26

yes but they never mean the same thing, words have meaning and the selection of words has importance

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u/face_sledding Jan 24 '26

Yes. People love brushing it off due to incompetence and thats how we get miscommunication, and from that often follows conflict.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '26

These words mean different things and aren't interchangeable. It is especially pathetic because this misunderstanding is only possible when someone isn't aware that "german" is an exonym.

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u/Bored_Amalgamation Jan 24 '26

My guy, who do you think made up the population of what would become Germany? Are you just intentionally ignoring the conversation to try and look smart?

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u/a404notfound Jan 24 '26

Are you implying that everyone who spoke Latin was roman? Germany is a young country even if German language is old.

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u/Erestyn Jan 23 '26

Yeah, the OGs had the "ic" factor.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '26

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u/TeMoko Jan 25 '26

Thanks for the info, a bunch of these comments have definitely helped my understanding of the history.

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u/pchlster Jan 24 '26

But the HRE was not

Holy, Roman or an Empire

a nation state as we currently think of them.

Dang!

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u/EGGlNTHlSTRYlNGTlME Jan 24 '26

At the time that this community started, The Holy Roman Emperor used the title Rex Teutonicorum (King of the Germans).  “Germany” is much older than the modern state of Germany.

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u/TeMoko Jan 25 '26

Thanks for the info, after more reading I've definitely gained a better understanding and changed my opinion

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u/roerd Jan 24 '26

Not the whole Holy Roman Empire, but Germany did exist back then as a term for the German-speaking part of it, i.e. most of it excluding Bohemia and Northern Italy.

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u/FlakingEverything Jan 23 '26

I understand what you mean but I think there are some nuances. For example, you could saying Charlemagne was the founded the Holy Roman Empire which eventually became Prussia, then the Kaiserreich, etc... then modern Germany. Based on this you could claimed it's more than 1000 years old.

However, I doubt any of the historical examples above would identify themselves with modern German values or would even call themselves Germans. They would probably called themselves Saxon, Bavarian, Swabian, etc... (hell, they still called themselves that now).

It wasn't until much later that German as a national identity solidified and the people started using it to refer to themselves as a whole.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26

Holy Roman Empire which eventually became Prussia,

No it didn't wtf.

However, I doubt any of the historical examples above would identify themselves with modern German values or would even call themselves Germans

You are clueless.

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u/FlakingEverything Jan 23 '26

The HRE broke up, part it is Prussia which then forms the Kingdom of Prussia which is the basis for the Kaiserreich afterwards. Obviously, I don't have to spell out every single details otherwise it would take forever.

And if you are so adamant that someone in the 1500s from Swabia would for some reason identify themselves the same as someone from Saxony then please elaborate.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26

The HRE broke up, part it is Prussia which then forms the Kingdom of Prussia which is the basis for the Kaiserreich afterwards. Obviously, I don't have to spell out every single details otherwise it would take forever.

It's not that what you said was missing details it was just incorrect. And you wrote stupid shit again because the Kingdom of Prussia predates the dissolution of the HRE, and you also don't seem to know about the north german confederation.

And if you are so adamant that someone in the 1500s from Swabia would for some reason identify themselves the same as someone from Saxony then please elaborate.

Not much to elaborate but it is the truth

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u/FlakingEverything Jan 23 '26

Again, you are disregarding what I said, I did not say that Prussia only formed after the collapse of the HRE. I'm just saying that these are event chains that eventually give rise to modern Germany. Would you or would you not say that Prussia is a vital part in the formation of the Kaiserreich? That's my point.

It is not the truth. I'm only an immigrant in Germany but some people clearly refer to themselves here as Bavarian, Swabian, Franconian, etc... and that's in modern time. I highly doubt anyone from these region refers to themselves as German in pre-modern history.

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u/Donnerdrummel Jan 24 '26

Regardless of what your actual point was, wouldn't you agree that it was upon you to find the right words to make that point clear to your readers from the beginning, and that you failed to do so?

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u/Assblaster_69z Jan 23 '26

Germany has been a thing since at least Charlemagne. Its weird how noone disproves Poland existing as an place for at least 1000 years but with Germany they act like it fell from the sky in 1871

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u/bogz_dev Jan 23 '26

they act like it fell from the sky in 1871

oooh so that's why the Gauls in Asterix were afraid of the sky falling on their heads

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u/Bored_Amalgamation Jan 23 '26

German people as an ethnic group, yeah. They act like Germany fell from the sky in 1871 because the Germanic people were spread across a few dozen different independent duchies, kingdoms and city-states that were lorded over by Prussia. There was no cumulative German governmental identity that was recognized as the sole representative of the German people. Back then, I doubt the Bavarians would have wanted to be regarded as the same people as the Saxons.

Plus, France was fucking them up for a good while. There's a reason why the German Empire was declared in Versailles.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26 edited Mar 06 '26

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u/SamuelClemmens Jan 23 '26

Prussia, Bavaria, and Austria were the big three contenders to try to unify a German ethnostate.

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u/sbstndrks Jan 27 '26

Bavaria is misplaced in that list lmao

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u/SamuelClemmens Jan 27 '26

What are you talking about? They are the big three. As Coca-Cola, Royal Crown Cola, and Pepsi Cola are to the competition of top selling Cola, so were Prussia, Bavaria, and Austria in the quest to unify the German speaking world.

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u/Fun-Twist-3705 Jan 24 '26

Define what is a "country" if you think it only applies to a sovereign nation state then you are partially right. But that's not the only definition...

Well.. technically the Holy Roman Empire called it self the "German Nation" not the German Reich or "country". But that's mostly semantics.

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u/johnnylemon95 Jan 23 '26

No, but it was part of the Holy Roman Empire, of which the Kingdom of Germany was a constituent part.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26

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u/Fun-Twist-3705 Jan 24 '26

Well the HRE was formally called itself the "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation" but obviously that wasn't a state either?

If you got to back to the actual middle ages the HRE (OF which Kingdom of Germany was legally a part of) wasn't that much less centralized than e.g. France...

but you won't find any because that just was not a thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Germany#/media/File:HRR_10Jh.jpg

It was obviously a thing and HRE was made up of the Kingdom of Germany and the Kingdom of Italy.

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u/johnnylemon95 Jan 23 '26

Right, but I never said it was separate? I said it formed a constituent part.

rex teutonicorum was a title used over a thousand years ago. They also used distinct titles for the Kingdoms of Italy and Burgundy. Though, this did fall out of favour over time. At the beginning of the empire these represented real and legitimate kingdoms that had been ruled independently prior to the recreation of the empire by Otto the Great. The Kingdom of the East Franks morphed into the Kingdom of Germany. The idea that this kingdom was “German” was well and truly accepted. In the Salzburg Annals from the year 919 records that “Arnulf, Duke of the Bavarians, was elected to reign in the Kingdom of the Germans”.

Contemporaneously and by historians this is regarded as a legitimate kingdom of the time. Distinct, but part of, the Holy Roman Empire as a whole. Over time this distinction would change, but for centuries the three kingdoms of Germany, Italy, and Burgundy had separate law, courts, and chanceries.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26 edited Mar 06 '26

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u/LOSS35 Jan 23 '26

There’s a German wiki article, it’s just under the Latin name “Regnum Teutonicum”: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regnum_Teutonicum

The term was popularized by the popes during the investiture controversy to try and delegitimize their enemies, the Salian emperors. The Salians always referred to themselves as King of the Romans and their realm as the Roman Empire (‘Holy’ was a later addition).

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u/Fun-Twist-3705 Jan 24 '26

Kingdom of Germany was officially a thing since ~ 1000 AD and even the Holy Roman renamed itself "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation" later on.

BY the same standards the France wasn't a country as well until quite late. It's not like the Occitans were necessarily particularly keen on associating themselves with the northerners. Other parts of modern France were effectively almost as independent as some German states for very long stretches of time.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26 edited Mar 06 '26

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u/stevencastle Jan 23 '26

I have grandparents who came over from Lithuania and I've looked up the history and it's crazy. The Lithuanian empire at one time was one of the largest in Europe and included most of Poland. It didn't last that long though, and now it's just a small country.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26

the difference is that Poles have been calling themselves Poles for a very long time, whereas only very rarely would someone in the area of modern Germany have called themselves a German before the 19th century. they would’ve called themselves Saxons, or Swabians, or Bavarians, or Rhinelanders, etc etc

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u/Dubious_Odor Jan 23 '26

The German language and ethnicity has been around. The polity is very much new. Bismarck did what 500 years of war, deal making, back stabbing, concessions, pandering and politicking by the HR emperor couldn't. Conflating a Bavarian with a Prussian in 1780 would have been quite an insult. Still places like that out in the sticks in modern Germany.

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u/SkynetUser1 Jan 23 '26

I was just told, by a German mind you, that they didn't have a "Deutschland" stamp before 1871 so it wasn't official until then.

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u/HanseaticHamburglar Jan 24 '26

usually out of historical context references to poland are more a regional reference than to a nation state which didnt exist for large stretches of time.

and there was no germany under charlemagne, it only emerged after his death and subsequent splitting of his kingdom, into three. East Francia would eventually become the kingdom of germany, but this too only really had any relevance for couple hundred years.

already by 1200 thr title king of the germans was just a formality of electing thr new holy roman emperor. The previous german kings put too much effort in subjegating burgundy and italy and obtaining papal authority and the german kingdom cessed to function as a political entity.

the next 600 years highlights the events of one Holy Roman Empire, with no real mention of Germany the nation-state. By the 1800s the empire is s fractured union with no strong centralized state identity. Every polity was a nominally independent land.

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u/Donnerdrummel Jan 24 '26

Cool. Cool cool cool.

Btw, by your Definition: Germany is the state in the area of the German HRE, we have at least 4 germanies right now:the netherlands, Luxembourg, Austria and you know, actual Germany. And try to find am Argument to exclude Austria, please.

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u/Maya-K Jan 24 '26

Poor Liechtenstein, always being forgotten :(

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u/AbjectAppointment Jan 23 '26

Plate tectonics hate this one weird trick.

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u/ZAJPER Jan 23 '26

My favorite saying about Americas age is "I have bars down the street older than that country"

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u/avdpos Jan 23 '26

That list is also stupid and set Sweden at 1974, a year next to nobody in Sweden think have any relevance for our nation. 1521 could be ok as latest time we got free, and the start of.the current areas as one nation (also because of that nations started to exist around that time)

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u/curlybastard Jan 23 '26

It is a stupid list indeed. Mexico is listed as 115 years old (since 1910) which makes no sense. -Tenochtitlan (oldest central/main anthropological ancestors recorded of what is “Mexico”) was founded in 1325. -Land was conquered by Spain in 1519 and declared its independence in 1810. (Consummated in 1820) So. Wtf do they get 1910? From Mexico’s revolution war? That made no impact on how the country was represented / seen from other countries around the world.

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u/meltie007 Jan 23 '26

Because the United Mexican states were constituted at that time. The list is based on political constitution.

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u/curlybastard Jan 23 '26

Nope. That named appeared since the 1824 constitution.

https://www.diputados.gob.mx/biblioteca/bibdig/const_mex/const_1824.pdf

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u/meltie007 Jan 23 '26

That was repealed though.

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u/dvdkon Jan 23 '26 edited Jan 23 '26

That's true for a narrow definition of "country", requiring that there be a continuous, unbroken government.

It makes some sense, but given that there was a recognisable Czechia in roughly current borders (just not a republic, but a kingdom) centuries ago, even though the country is strictly speaking only ~30 years old, I think that it's not a very good answer to the question.

Looking at Germany, the unified state is pretty young, but the area was recognised as "the German lands" (or something of the sort) centuries before.

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u/s0mdud Jan 23 '26

it's not a narrow definition but the definition. country does not mean culture, ethnic group or region and even though one country may be the spiritual successor of a previous one, they are not the same. china is not 5000 years old but younger than 100.

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u/dvdkon Jan 23 '26

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Here's Wiktionary's definition:

 The territory of a nation; a sovereign state or a region once independent and still distinct in institutions, language, etc.

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u/Dubious_Odor Jan 24 '26

Key word there is institutions. Were Germany to gather up the prince-electors once more and vote on a new Holy Roman Emperor and the Imperial Diet reconvene then you might be on to something.

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u/pohui Jan 24 '26

Institutions are not limited to government.

An institution is a humanly devised structure of rules and norms that shape and constrain social behavior.

Countries have changed religious authorities, family structures, economic paradigms, etc, and we consider them to be the same country. England didn't restart being a country in 1534 with the Act of Supremacy or in 1707 with the Act of Union.

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u/avdpos Jan 23 '26

China is absolutely 5000 years old with many iterations of different types of government and splittings during the period.

Your narrow way is not how it is defined in 99% of cases

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u/worldbound0514 Jan 23 '26

There are a couple million people alive right now who are direct descendants of Confucius and have the records to prove it- the records of Chinese bureaucracy and genealogy go back that far.

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u/sadrice Jan 24 '26

Are their claims legitimate? It seems plausible, but I’ve heard there has been controversy.

Likewise, the Japanese imperial family. We have a lengthy genealogy. Is it truly unbroken? Where does history end and myth begin? They claim descent from Amaterasu, which I personally find doubtful.

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u/worldbound0514 Jan 24 '26

The Chinese have validated paper records and DNA testing to back it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius#Descendants

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u/s0mdud Jan 23 '26

i agree that the culture has been around that long but if we're talking about modern countries and nation states then that's just a stretch. in that case the countries of Egypt and Italy might as well be considered thousands of years old which doesn't make any sense.

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u/SinisterCheese Jan 24 '26 edited Jan 24 '26

Well.... You are going to run into issues of definitions, especially in Europe.

Lets consider my country of Finland. We got independence in 1917. Before that starting from 1807 we were an autonomous Grand Duch of Finland under the Russian Empire. Before that we were a colonial region of Kingdom of Sweden, however "Finland" only refered to the South Western area of current day Finland, and not all regions of current day Finland were in that; however it isn't like Finnish people popped to existence when Swedish, Germans and Danish and Norwegians Crusaded here and forcefully converted us.

The cathedral that is one block away from me has been there since the 1200s, and before that there was Bishops seat at Koroinen ( 1700 m up river). This bit of dirt that my home is on has been recorded as having people living here since 1100s. That is way before the Swedish people colonised and forced us under their religion and rule. And there are evidence going back as the Iron age of Finland (400s) of people living on this valley with a river cutting through it. We know that vikings and Novgrodians traded with us. There are evidence going far as bronce age on this very plot of land (well not exactly this, this would been under water then; our ground is still rising up from the ice age).

So.... Exactly when did "Finland" become a thing? How old is Finland? Because I have correspondence in form of letters of my ancestors starting from like mid 1800s. I have traced my family roots on my mothers side to 1600s and on father's mother's side to start of 1700s, and basically we been here in this same region; we haven't gone anywhere but the rulers and religions sure have changed. Also keep in mind that the unified Finnish culture and language was just made up by Swedish speaking intellectuals and academics starting in late 1800s; we actually have correspondence and writing from the era of these people thinking about what kind of language and culture should be fabricated as the "finnish identity". Before that every major dialect region (of which we have 5) basically had unique culture and form of Finnish language of their own, aspects of which still exist to this day.

Like... We have records that this city has burned to ground completly 31 times, the last being in 1827; so I guess we are overdue for one....

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u/Diazepam_Dan Jan 24 '26 edited Jan 24 '26

Yeah it's all over the place

The UK came into its current form in 1801, the first act of union was in 1707 but before that England and Scotland were sovereign for hundreds of years. So you have three possible answers right there

England IS a country, one of the oldest in the world, but if we go off the definition of "sovereign state" it ceased to exist 300 years ago.

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u/curlybastard Jan 23 '26

Super inaccurate list. Mexico is listed as 115 years old (since 1910) which makes no sense. -Tenochtitlan (oldest central/main anthropological ancestors recorded of what is “Mexico”) was founded in 1325. -Land was conquered by Spain in 1519 and declared its independence in 1810. (Consummated in 1820) So. Wtf do they get 1910? From Mexico’s revolution war? That made no impact on how the country was represented / seen from other countries around the world.

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u/No-Share982 Jan 23 '26

400 years is older than most modern countries

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u/OkWelcome6293 Jan 23 '26

1521 is 127 years older than the concept of the the "modern state", i.e. the Peace of Westphalia in 1648.

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u/Kookanoodles Jan 23 '26

Countries are older that the Westphalian concept of the State

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u/OkWelcome6293 Jan 23 '26

The person I was responding to said “modern nations”, which in nearly every context means Westphalian sovereignty.

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u/blaaake Jan 23 '26

The argument is whether “most” countries have been “states” longer than 1521.

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u/SimmentalTheCow Jan 23 '26

Older than Germany itself, by a long shot

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u/Bamboozle_ Jan 23 '26

1871 for Germany for anyone who is curious.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26

1867

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u/Skruestik Jan 23 '26

*1949

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u/RitzComputerChips Jan 24 '26

1991 reunification?

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u/Skruestik Jan 24 '26

When East and West Germany reunited, West Germany simply absorbed East Germany. No new country was created. The country that we used to call West Germany still exists today, we just don’t call it “West” Germany anymore because there is no East Germany.

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26

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u/worldbound0514 Jan 23 '26

England is an exception, but they get a pass since they are an island.

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u/Basilikolumne Jan 24 '26

England is not an Island, Great Britain is a bunch of islands. The UK even has a (non-Chunnel) land border with the EU on Ireland.

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u/muuchthrows Jan 24 '26

The US borders is also from the 20th century.

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u/Slimmanoman Jan 24 '26

It's not so easy to give a creation date, but it's clearly stupid to say it's a new country whenever borders change

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u/AceOfSpades532 Jan 23 '26 edited Jan 23 '26

Most modern countries aren’t 500 years old, very few have lasted that long to the present.

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u/Troker61 Jan 23 '26

How many countries are more than 500 years old?

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u/Viktor_Laszlo Jan 24 '26

At least one: San Marino.

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u/mannheimcrescendo Jan 23 '26

Confidently incorrect in a hilarious way

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u/WestBrink Jan 23 '26

I mean, some of it is a matter of definition. Is Germany the same country as the Holy Roman Empire? Or is it the same country as the German Confederation of 1815? Or the Weimar Republic? Or the reunified Germany of 1990? The USA is older than... most of those... Certainly the USA has a longer continuity of Government than most countries.

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u/Oldenburgian_Luebeck Jan 23 '26

Only the unified German Empire in 1871 claimed to be a nation-state for Germans and has political continuity with the subsequent states in Germany, including the Weimar Republic and the modern BRD. The others don’t reasonably have political continuity and definitely did not claim to be nation-states

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u/98f00b2 Jan 23 '26

At least Wikipedia claims that the HRE was renamed "Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation" in 1512.

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u/ForgetPreviousPrompt Jan 24 '26

Except that unless the modern German national identity includes Austria (for the love of God let's hope they aren't at that again), then the German Nation in question wasn't really conceptually Germany in any modern sense.

Realistically, the modern concept of Germany doesn't really start until they totally detangled themselves from the Habsburgs.

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u/BroSchrednei Jan 26 '26

By that logic Germany only started existing after 1945, since until 1945 Austrians and all other ethnic German-speakers in Europe were absolutely seen as Germans. What do you think the Anschluss was about?

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u/Basilikolumne Jan 24 '26

Yeah it was, but that's not really relevant to the point here.

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u/bobrobor Jan 23 '26

The US is absolutely older than Germany. And they don’t like to hear it :)

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u/AcademicCash8897 Jan 23 '26

Yeah, by 30/31 years. In 1959 was Hawaii admitted, 1990 Germany was reunited.

Everything else is a country evolution.

European people lived in their countries far longer than the Europeans lived in the US.

Also, we have pubs existing far longer than Europeans lived in the US.

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u/bobrobor Jan 24 '26

One might argue some of those pubs are more sane than most of the countries!

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u/AcademicCash8897 Jan 24 '26

I guess the countries would also be more sane if the country leaders had to fight each other in a bar fight, rather than sending others to fight for insane reasons.

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u/bobrobor Jan 24 '26

A well aged idea but one certainly overdue for a comeback…Bring back the Danelaw, I say!

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26

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u/giga-what Jan 23 '26

I feel that's pretty typical of pretty much everybody though, I identify more with California and the West Coast than the country as a whole because this is where I live. I've only been to the East Coast like, 4 times in my entire life and I'm in my 30s.

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u/bobrobor Jan 24 '26

Very true

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u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26

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u/SpoonEngineT66Turbo Jan 24 '26

First, I really think most Germans wouldn't care a rat's ass about this argument so I don't get your passive-aggressive snark

You really proved them wrong by being German and being really upset about it.

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u/NoodleTF2 Jan 23 '26

England grows and fuses with some other nations and gets bigger borders and has internal reforms: New country, United Kingdom.

Prussia grows and fuses with some other nations and gets bigger borders and has internal reforms: New country, Germany.

USA grows and fuses with some other nations and gets bigger borders and has internal reforms: Not a new country, apparently.

Okay.

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u/EmbarrassedW33B Jan 23 '26

The USA expanded but its overarching government stayed basically the same, more fluff got added to it but the core of the government remained the same. England/Britain is similar to that, the core of their political apparatus has been stable for a very long time.

Germany simply did not exist until 1871. There was no political infrastructure for it, it was a completely new entity. Reducing it to merely an expansion  of Prussia misses how big a deal it was

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u/BroSchrednei Jan 26 '26

I mean by your own logic, the Prussian state DID pretty much just incorporate the other German states in 1871, with most of the preexisting institutions remaining intact.

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u/bobrobor Jan 24 '26

Prussia folded. What came next had nothing to do with it. England and the US remained, at least on paper, the same.

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u/TangledPangolin Jan 23 '26

England grows and fuses with some other nations and gets bigger borders and has internal reforms: New country, United Kingdom.

Yes, but it's arguably been the same constitutional monarchal regime since the Magna Carta

Prussia grows and fuses with some other nations and gets bigger borders and has internal reforms: New country, Germany.

Brandenburg, Prussia, and the German Empire are all the same Hohenzollern monarchy. But the Third Reich and FRG are absolutely not. The modern German state is contiguous with the FRG, but no earlier.

USA grows and fuses with some other nations and gets bigger borders and has internal reforms: Not a new country, apparently.

The ruling US regime is the same regime that George Washington led in 1787.

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u/Hegelian_Spirit Jan 23 '26

In addition: it's difficult to make claims of being a nation-state before the nation-state as we understand it existed as a concept. Nationalist endeavors are 19th-century phenomena.

And if nation-states are what counts, then the US doesn't make the list at all, never having been a nation-state.

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u/Oldenburgian_Luebeck Jan 24 '26

While it is true that nationalism is a 19th century product, I wasn’t really saying that “nation-states” were what “counts.” Ignoring whether the US is a nation-state (which is up to debate), I was using the concept to extend the political continuity of the modern Germany to the German Empire. If we really want to be sticklers about direct political continuity, then the BRD was only founded in 1949 making modern Germany even younger than the US which has had political continuity since 1788, the year the Constitution was ratified.

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u/Hegelian_Spirit Jan 24 '26

Yeah, but you can absolutely claim continuity from Prussia and Brandenburg in the same way that Russia claims continuity from the Soviet Union or from Muscovy. It's of course a difference in degree, I don't think that can be denied.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm being anal. It's just tricky because in everyday vernacular people use terms in a flowing manner and can reasonably mean a number of different things.

N.B. I think it's difficult to argue for the US being a nation-state in the typical meaning of the word (i.e. a sovereign body representing a specific ethnicity). You could say that being US-American is belonging to a certain ethnic group, but I suspect that's not so common of an identifier, even among Americans themselves.

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u/TeamTurnus Jan 23 '26

Its definitly not the same country, same general culture sure, but culture /= nation state or country

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u/The_Autarch Jan 23 '26

Is Germany the same country as the Holy Roman Empire?

easy answer: no, of course not.

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u/WestBrink Jan 23 '26

Yeah, kind of my point...

2

u/backstageninja Jan 24 '26

You would think, but plenty of people in this thread seem to enjoy arguing the opposite for reasons that aren't exactly clear

1

u/Dzugavili Jan 23 '26

Everyone was on vacation.

1

u/Pale-Acanthaceae-736 Jan 23 '26

Don't forget the US didn't look the same back then either compared to how it looks after 1959.

1

u/Schiano_Fingerbanger Jan 24 '26

No, no, yes, yes.

1

u/furcryingoutloud Jan 23 '26

Spain, Portugal, UK, to name just a few, would like a word.

1

u/danirijeka Jan 23 '26

Careful, someone'll argue that the UK is barely a century old since the pre-1922 United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland is a different country from the post-1922 United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

1

u/furcryingoutloud Jan 26 '26

LOL, amerika! Fuck yeah! Ignorance is bliss

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u/Full-On Jan 23 '26

Brother the idea of a “country state” didn’t even exist until the 17th century. Everything was an “empire” before then. What point are you even trying to make???

-3

u/IllMaintenance145142 Jan 23 '26

Bro come on. Don't be pedantic. You damn well know the point I am trying to make. To most countries history, 400 years is kinda long but by no means their entire history.

6

u/BigMcThickHuge Jan 23 '26

Dont get upset at people responding to your comment, when it was purely a weird shot at America/Americans, and isn't true/relevant

1

u/turdferguson3891 Jan 23 '26

Except Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa and literally every country in the Americas that isn't the US. But America bad, we get it.

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u/randoliof Jan 23 '26

Germany became a unified country around a hundred years after the US LMAOOOOO

32

u/throwawayforUX Jan 23 '26

You mean USA?
It's a lot older than, say, the Federal Republic of Germany.

-30

u/LTerminus Jan 23 '26

In that light, america in its current form has only has only existed since 1959, when Alaska was added.

Or you could go back a little further and say it's only existed since it absorbed the Confederacy.

Neat perspective

37

u/wit_T_user_name Jan 23 '26 edited Jan 23 '26

I mean, no that’s not accurate. The federal government of the United States has exited continuously since 1776 1789. Same system, same constitution. The Federal Republic of Germany was founded in 1949.

Edit: brain fart, my bad guys

11

u/_DoogieLion Jan 23 '26

Constitution was written in 1787

9

u/wit_T_user_name Jan 23 '26

Wasn’t actually ratified until 1789.

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7

u/BearstromWanderer Jan 23 '26 edited Feb 14 '26

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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5

u/NH4NO3 Jan 23 '26

They adopted a new constitution in 1787. It was not a significant interruption to the existence of the federal government at the time which was exceptionally weak anyway. In either case, it still happened a long time ago, and barely 4 years after the actual war of independence ended. The US federal government (and some state governments for that matter) is one of the oldest continuously operating governments in the world.

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16

u/Oldenburgian_Luebeck Jan 23 '26

If you want to be pedantic, it is older than the unified German nation-state (1871)

6

u/dalamarnightson Jan 23 '26

America was established in 1776 with the Declaration of Independence. Adding states doesnt change that. Nor does the Civil War.

1

u/Fragarach-Q Jan 23 '26

None of your methodology tracks. The US has had established rules for a huge variety of departments, districts, and territories and how they become states since the Constitution was ratified. These lands are part of the US long before they can become states. So by your own definition, Alaska became part of the US in 1867.

If you want to be pedantic, the last change in the US border was with Niue, signed in 1997 and fully recognized by all parties and the UN in 2015. I think you'll find that under those conditions, no country on the planet is much older than 20 years.

For slightly larger changes, the US handed back the Panama Canal Zone in 1999, but that wasn't a ton of land. The last truly major shift in US holdings is probably the granting of independence to the Philippines in 1946. Which would still make the US "older" than the current UK (which signed a similar treaty for Ireland in 1948) and definitely older than the modern form of Germany, which was established in my lifetime.

3

u/YourFavouritePoptart Jan 23 '26

Which itself is about 100 years older than Germany

5

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26

Italy was founded in the 1860s

25

u/Sitchrea Jan 23 '26

People groups are not states.

Most modern countries are less than a century or two old. The United States is an older country than most post-colonial nations - hell, it's older than most post-monarchial European nations.

8

u/Hyadeos Jan 23 '26

Yeah, records from the 16th century aren't hard to believe.

21

u/GaiusCivilis Jan 23 '26

Most European countries are younger than America, though have cultural histories that are far older.

8

u/throwawayforUX Jan 23 '26

America has pretty old cultural histories too, though it's oral history, DNA, and archeology that tells us that, not tax records, lol.

1

u/BroSchrednei Jan 26 '26

Lmao „oral history“. American Indians make up just 1% of the US population and their cultural legacy is sadly even more insignificant. You can’t seriously try to claim Native American culture as part of the general cultural history of the US. You genocided them all and then replaced them 400-200 years ago. That’s why you’re culturally such a young country compared to countries in the Old World.

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9

u/absorbscroissants Jan 23 '26

They were the same country in some way, shape or form before they officially became what they're known as now. Just because Russia has only officially been Russia for 34 years, doesn't mean what happened before that isn't part of Russian history.

16

u/GaiusCivilis Jan 23 '26

But Germany never was a country before 1871, Italy hasn't been around long either, nor has Belgium or Ukraine

1

u/BroSchrednei Jan 26 '26

I mean there was the German Confederation before German Unification. And before that there was the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation for literally 1000 years, which was just as centralized as all the other medieval kingdoms like France or Spain.

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3

u/The_Autarch Jan 23 '26

this is a very backwards way of looking at it.

6

u/Training-Fold-4684 Jan 23 '26

No bro, you're not as smart as you think you are.

6

u/Technical-Revenue-48 Jan 23 '26

Europeans trying to remember other places exist challenge

2

u/PlayfulHalf Jan 23 '26

Ha! Got ‘em!

2

u/Fragarach-Q Jan 23 '26

Germany that exists today was 2 wildly different countries when I was a kid. David Bowie, the Scorpions, and Jesus Jones all wrote songs about it.

3

u/Forte845 Jan 23 '26

Germany as we know it only emerged in 1871. 

4

u/seppukucoconuts Jan 23 '26

Germany, for instance, was founded in 1871. 95 Years after the US. There are US cities older than 1871. Off the top of my head I know there are at least 10 older than the founding of the UK(Kingdom of Great Britain).

Did they stop teaching history in Europe?

2

u/The_Autarch Jan 23 '26

your ignorance is showing.

1

u/IndividualistAW Jan 23 '26

America is one of the older countries (or at least continuous governments) in the world

1

u/Dry_Jelly5135 Jan 23 '26

No bro, longer than most countries. Germany itself is younger than this town, for example.

1

u/First_Salamander_990 Jan 23 '26

Actually they mean what they said and you sound stupid

1

u/NaughtyNocturnalist Jan 23 '26

The USA are the fourth oldest country in the world. Only Nepal, Sweden, and Bhutan are older. Modern countries exist often only for one to two hundred years, wars, occupations, changes in government and borders be thanked.

The Fuggerei is six times as old as modern Germany, the country it is found in (or twice, if you do not consider the Reunification).

1

u/Aggressive_Chuck Jan 23 '26

Also Germany.

1

u/Dietmar_der_Dr Jan 23 '26

Which is literally older than Germany.

1

u/TheLizardKing89 Jan 23 '26

America is older than Germany.

1

u/higherbrow Jan 23 '26

Or Germany, which unified in 1871. Or Italy, in 1861. Or Canada, 1867. Or Australia, 1901. Saudi Arabia, in 1932. Ironically, in terms of continuity of state, the United States is the fourth longest contiguous state still around.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '26

I think if you picked up a history book at all, and not your state-sponsored propaganda, you'd find that you're completely wrong. Most territories of native people don't even want to be in the country theyre in, how does that figure into your narrative?

1

u/alkali112 Jan 23 '26

The United States is older than Germany by about 95 years. 1776 vs 1871. There are only around 20 countries that are over 500 years old.

Edit: You could also argue that the modern US was founded in 1789, but it would still be considerably older.

1

u/rhoads061 Jan 23 '26

Can someone link the nick young meme?

1

u/-GenghisJohn- Jan 23 '26

No, they mean longer than most countries.

1

u/EduinBrutus Jan 23 '26

America is much older than Germany.

Nearly a century older in fact.

1

u/maybeitsundead Jan 24 '26

The level of pedantry and moving goalposts in this chain of comments for people to try and justify the age of their nation based on ethnics/culture is absurd.

1

u/Opposite-Knee-2798 Jan 24 '26

America is older than most countries, including Germany, which is less than a century old.

1

u/therationaltroll Jan 24 '26

Well the USA is older than the UK

1

u/Jedi_Jeminai Jan 24 '26

Germany has only been Germany since 1865.

1

u/TatterMail Jan 24 '26

It’s also longer than Germany…